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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

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I'm rather put off by how much rolling of the dice it takes to get a particular weapon. If you truly insist on using the RNG mechanic here, can we at least influence what type of weapon the lich will spawn with by using that weapon on them? Because the devstream team did say the lich would be unique to us, its creator.

On 2019-10-31 at 1:07 PM, [DE]Megan said:

KUVA LICHES: Twisted new Kuva spiked foes await - The death of Grineer bathed in crimson fuels an undying thirst for its creator: YOU.  

Example: I use a Strun to down a Larvaling before using the interact button on them, there is now a higher chance to get a kuva drakgoon, kohm, etc.

Merging duplicate kuva weapons is a good step, but continuing to get the same weapon over and over and over and over and over—ad nauseam is REALLY somber. Please understand that I do like this update, but this grind has got to take a different turn, please.

 

While typing this I assume the question about balance will be asked, does that truly matter when everyone will arrive at the same percentage anyways? Though this is under the presumption that there is a cap to the elemental bonuses.

Thank you.

Edited by Lahared

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please make the murmur sound using the correct order of the phrase, some word from the sentence in the mods(of course distorted) so those who have keen hearing can guess the order.

and please make the process of getting the kuva larvling not set the enemies to alert state(and if I'm not mistaken it also count as triggering alarm failed to open riven with finish extermination w/o setting alarm using 100% invis ivara at the time)

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I really never see a lot of times to use the hidden bla- I mean Parazon's 'mercy' kill.

I see it maybe 10% chance or less, and by then the enemy has already been obliterated by  either my or someone else's guns.

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Quoting myself from a post about melee rework and channeling removal

On 2019-11-03 at 8:19 PM, Uthael said:

TL;DR - I'm also for reimplementing channeling one way or another.

Melee should be the most powerful type of damaging enemies at the cost of limited range and risk of taking damage. Further boosting that power by using your frame's energy was one of the more satisfying things in this game.

I always used channeling during melee. I even maxed Exodia Triumph for that purpose. And before someone labels CO+Hunt as superior - I know what I was doing. A lot of theorycrafting and testing went into my builds.

On a side note... Balancing my energy use around damage output felt a little less braindead to melee. That's another reason why I liked it.

I'm so glad melee ain't my 1st choice. Otherwise, I might've felt the same as OP.

P.S.: Overreacting on the Forums is like shooting yourself in a foot during a target practice match. Quite far from hitting a bullseye if you want to make a point.

 

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Would it be possible in the case of Kuva Weapons to treat the base damage bonus as an equippable Arcane for the Kuva weapon?

For example, say you have a Kuva Seer with 60% radiation and get a second with 80% toxin. Using an Arcane-esque system, it would be possible to equip a 60% radiation bonus OR an 80% toxin bonus on the same weapon, but not at the same time.

Since investing 5 forma and a catalyst into two identical weapons defeats the purpose of being able to fuse duplicates, I think this could work as a solution so that players could "collect" high bonuses for each damage type without the incredibly intense inventory investment of catalysts, forma, and slots on top of the time investment for farming them all.

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Kuva Kraken (Remake)

The size of the barrel always hit me as a big weapon. .50 cal type deal. Why not make it a 6 shot heavy pistol. Larger damage per shot. Decent fire rate. High recoil from launching a large slug. Ya know. Slower Fire Rate, Less Ammo, More damage per shot, Increased Recoil.

 

Reeach for tha Skyyyyy.

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New patch didnt fix Larvings not spawning at all.
I`ve played more than 50 missions all over star chart with grineers 22+ lvls, several times each, even did nightmare/kuva flood etc, but damned Larvings dont spawn at all. Before *.0.4 patch i `ve killed 2 Liches, now i cant even make one new. I tried nearly all frames (first 20 runs were with Ash/Equinox/Mirage in order to obtain radiation-base kuva weapon), later i use frost, ember, inaros - nearly all my lens-installed frames. And still no result. I asked clanmates for help, asked them to kill all enemies on map, used sentinels to kill mobs, walked without sprint for 10+ minutes on Telesto in order for Larving to spawn... And then finally got red light flashing! That were Steel meridian Syndicate`s eximus rollers, that made me cry with blood tears!

 

Cassini aldo doesnt spawn Larvings, though in other threads people advise this map. Kuva fortress missions - also no result.

Edited by Morrendeil
tested Cassini and Kuva fortress

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You gradually increased and then plummeted kuva lich enjoyability over the last two days. The kuva drops were awesome, if a little high. I suggest giving thralls a chance to drop 100 kuva or a mod that scales with lich level, and a method we can raise the lich level above 5. We also desperately need other rewards than a gun which we mostly will already own after 10 tries. 

You also ruined the coop aspect. Removing murmur progress for other people facing their lich was pretty harsh. One of the big problems is also the rage meter, we could really use a way to increase it faster or get a 100% spawn. The amount of RNG in this update is hurting your players, think about adding a way to dictate which weapon the lich spawns with, too, please.

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1 hour ago, LordRusty said:

Could we have a lich station in the orbiter please? The integration into the codex is nice, but time consuming. Here's my suggested bit of game design. While we're already looking at this particular area which includes noggles. Can I float the idea of being able to turn our lichs into custom noggles? I would pay good plat for that.
sND3SKX.jpghttps://imgur.com/a/YaI7YTi
 

i think they gonna put this on dojo

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Please revert a specific aspect of the Larvaling conversion.

I do not think you should have made Kuva Liches 'more' optional.
They already are as optional as the Juggernaut is. If you don't want a larvaling to spawn, don't kill for a while.
That really make sense to me, much more than giving players such an easy opt-out.

The whole point of the Guardians sending in larvalings is based on if you are killing rampantly enough. They are trying to get you to kill one on accident, so that you suffer the consequences of it. This change uproots that entirely, and kneecaps the whole premise.

So please, either revert the need to mercy kill a larvaling to convert it, or do not mark the larvaling, so players actually have to pay attention.

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Vanquishing a kuva lich should net you a hefty amount of kuva (around 10k to 20k). So players are “compensated” if they get a bad weapon roll.

Also increase the converted kuva lich spawn rate or maybe give use a way to force spawn them in a mission. I have converted 2 liches so far and I only see one of them once every 10-20 missions and make them stay throughout the mission until the player extract or the ally lich is defeated and also, why converted kuva lich doesn’t use their abilities?

 

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Just dropping by to say that anyone suggesting harsh punishments for not driving off a Lich rather than dealing with the reason why players don't want to engage them in the first place is not helping and will only make what they are complaining about worse.

You won't make anyone agree with you by demanding misery when misery is the only reason the problem exists in the first place.

Just make a simple QTE struggle sequence, you win it, you drive the Lich off, get murmers and it doesn't level up, fail it and what happens now happens with no change.

It is just. THAT. SIMPLE.

Edited by Aldain
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So what are we supposed to do when we encounter our Lich and we Don't want to confront it yet? I'd rather not raise the difficulty of the rest of the Murmur farm when I don't even have the first requiem yet. With Everyone receiving murmur progress it was in the best interest to fail and let everyone gain progress, but with that removed, I'd rather leave my Lich lower ranked until I'm ready to seriously try my Requiems.

But that blocks other people from getting their Liches, which leads to strife in the squad and people get told (not often politely) to go play this multiplayer game solo.

So what do we do? End up with lvl 100 excavation missions that are absolute ass to run. Or can we have a method to drive the Lich away. If my Lich gets downed ten times without a lethal takedown attempt, they might take a tactical retreat and Free up the Mission for Another Lich. Or if we Kill ten Thralls in the Liches presence they may desire more troops before they come to harass us again.

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1 hour ago, NeroAugustine said:

So please, either revert the need to mercy kill a larvaling to convert it, or do not mark the larvaling, so players actually have to pay attention.

Gameplay wise, there is nothing fun about it, you are just punishing newbies for no reason, you get nothing from that change.

 

Quote

Fixed ALL players receiving Kuva Lich Requiem Murmur progress whenever someone in the squad fails to kill their Kuva Lich instead (is only meant to apply to the player that did the failing). While all Thralls share Requiem Murmurs, the Lich entity itself is exclusive to a player. This also fixes receiving Requiem Murmur progress when successfully killing a Kuva Lich - only failure/testing of your Requiem on a Kuva Lich will grant Murmur progress.

So here is another hotfix...

Now we won't gain additional murmur for successful mercy, i don't like this "fix" yet it makes sense. 

But, removing murmur progress for other player's kills is not something really desirable i'd say, you REDUCED the reason to NOT kill the liches, but you also REMOVED the reason TO kill the liches (your squadmate's lich is worthless beside thrall conversion), while keeping benefit for living liches (thrall conversion) 

And this is not only beneficial for myself, keeping them alive is more beneficial for squadmate too.

Also rage meter / murmur progress is same, you only get that pitiful 10 murmurs by sacrificing all your rage progress (unless you are testing revealed murmur, that is meaningful)

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il y a une heure, RICK_BO a dit :

So what are we supposed to do when we encounter our Lich and we Don't want to confront it yet? I'd rather not raise the difficulty of the rest of the Murmur farm when I don't even have the first requiem yet. With Everyone receiving murmur progress it was in the best interest to fail and let everyone gain progress, but with that removed, I'd rather leave my Lich lower ranked until I'm ready to seriously try my Requiems.

But that blocks other people from getting their Liches, which leads to strife in the squad and people get told (not often politely) to go play this multiplayer game solo.

So what do we do? End up with lvl 100 excavation missions that are absolute ass to run. Or can we have a method to drive the Lich away. If my Lich gets downed ten times without a lethal takedown attempt, they might take a tactical retreat and Free up the Mission for Another Lich. Or if we Kill ten Thralls in the Liches presence they may desire more troops before they come to harass us again.

The solution is:

Possibility to kill the lich.
Empty his first bar, try mercy with probably the bad mod, fail, be thrown away, alive.
Attack the second life bar, try again, fail again on the first mod, maybe the second is right, but be thrown away all the same ..
Attack the last bar, the mercy kills it.
But of course, as this is not the good requiem, the Kuva intervenes, lifts the dead Lich in the air and take it away for its resurrection.

This brings:
- The 3-step fight against the lich is done several times.
- There are plenty of opportunities for the lich to catch us, and kill us with a deadly finisher.
- The first version of the concept is respected, we are dealing with an immortal enemy who keeps on reliving.
- The coherence of their dialogue is back.
- We have a way to not block the spawn of other liches.

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I get the lichs are supposed to be our enemies and all, but can you make it an option to have teammates revive us during a mission if we fail to kill our lichs? Having them break our frames and go literally into the revive screen mode is a bit too much. At least give us the option to have us revived by our squad if we do fail. 

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Kuva Liches honestly need their own Assassination mission on the Star Map once you get the combination to kill them or some other major goal is accomplished, as right now trying to fight them feels outright tedious at times. If you let them level up to help speed up the process you have to deal with them and all the potentially level 100 or so enemies at the same time, with a good portion of those enemies also getting buffed to be even tougher.

The other biggest thing is Murmur acquisition, and how it takes pretty much clearing a whole planet's worth of nodes covered in Lich territory to get the bar filled to it's first quarter. At this point in time the grind is so needlessly long that players would rather bullrush their Lich with combination after combination of their Requiem Mods in hopes of getting lucky to get the right order than go through with Murmur hunting.

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I am on my 4th lich and found something frustrating I thought could be fixed.

I am close to getting enough murmurs to complete a requiem when I start a mission.  My lich shows up and I happen to guess right on the first requiem (and die on 2nd requiem), so now I learned the first requiem.  By the end of the mission, I farm enough murmurs to complete the requiem.  The problem is that the requiem it shows me is the one I already figured out earlier in the same mission.  It seems like when you get enough murmurs to learn a requiem, it should only show you requiems you don't already know.

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Well am I disappointed on the latest changes for Murmur acquisition... it was fun going in public and confront the KL just for the murmur progress, if it wasn't mine at least a teammate's KL would give us all progress and didn't minded helping them, but now it seems to be the opposite is the best strategy, just extract mission regardless if the targeted player had all the requiem mods in the right order, the rest won't get any murmur progress so there's no point in even helping.

Also kinda surprised you guys raised the amount of murmurs required for the last one, kinda screwed me when I was hunting my first KL and suddenly I needed more thralls, but then KL's shared murmur progress made it less tedious.

I can only wonder what will happen if future nemesis are added, we already have Eidolons, Orbs, Syndicates, Focus, Fortuna, Cetus, Vent Kids, Void Traces, Cryotic, Conservation, Fishing, Mining, Sortie, Invasions, Kuva Flood/Siphons, Conclave, Dojo decorating, Arbitrations, and special events like Plague Star, Thermia, Ghouls, Razorback, Fomore, and a few Warframes that require a lengty amount of farming besides Nightwave. It seems just a timegate for extra added longevity that in reality just makes it more frustrating and grindy than it should be.

Hopefully upcoming hotfixes reduce considerably the amount of murmurs or add ways to increase it faster cuz at this pace we are looking at barely finishing new content before the next grind comes D:

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Just a suggestion, can you make the "ally" Liches you convert slightly stronger? They currently don't feel like they do much when they appear, a corrupted lancer specter seems to be more useful in most situations. Either we should be able to mod their weapons with duplicate mods that do not interfere with our mod pool or they should be about as strong as a warframe specter. Just my opinion though

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Even after the change, farming murmurs is a still bit too much, especially when one gets a duplicate weapon he/she doesn't want. May we get an option to retire a lich whose weapon we don't want? Maybe limit its usage depending on MR or sth.

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Kuva Feedback 2

The Thematic failure is really beginning to set in for me.  If we are going to make them optional, then let's make them impactful.  

 

Let them “borrow” everything.  

No really, ignore the whiners who complain about stuff being taken.  Push the lich off the node before running it if it's going to be a problem, or just kill it.  People who don’t do this should consider “paying the idiot tax.” Nothing a Lich takes is gone.  They are borrowing it with the full intention of giving it back on their defeat.  

 

Allow Liches and thralls to show up everywhere.

If its a influenced node, then let them show up.  Reserve the special mission for pushing the influence back.  Why do they have the ability to tax rewards if we are literally kicking them out of the sector?  Not that I care: the special missions don’t have the normal reward tables anyway so they might as well take everything because there is nothing I get out of it.  it's not like I’m going to get relics out of disruption or do fissures while killing thralls in the current system.

 

Let us mute them before the Grinner retardation rubs off.

The Queens know that the only way to truly threaten the tenno is to subvert the starchild, and yet the worm (and the lich dialog) has completely forgotten this truth.  Warframes are disposable/replaceable and the liches getting off on brutalizing them is all for a higher purpose but it changes nothing. If I’m supposed to care, give me umbra.  

 

The liches need to spawn more often when they are being hunted.

It takes so much effort to get them to show up, it feels like they are COWARDS when we are hunting them.  Dialog notwithstanding it seems.

 

Your lich should always be able to spawn in a controlled territory mission.

Lich hunting is anti friend.  Once all 3 requiems are identified every mission without a lich spawn is more of a waste then the farming of murmur’s itself.  This can be minimized by selfishly abandoning your friends and hunting your lich in only its territory. I don’t want to do this.  Removing Murmur progress from allied lich attempts further complicated this issue.  There are more than enough governors on murmur progress.

Edited by Sahysa
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It was fairly quick for me to get to vanquishing my first one, Vordrgg Hakmo. My experience hasn't given me an impression of them as a long term fiend, at all. They need to be a continuous source of loot that improves with each subsequent encounter, among other things, so that the end goal isn't always a conversion or their weapon.

// Reward Pool
Liches, they need a reward pool based on their current rank for each encounter. Defeat them once? They drop something from that reward pool. Every subsequent encounter upgrades the reward pool, with higher ranks leaning towards the more unique items. Essentially, you are forcing your Lich out to defeat and "refine" them, and makes them prizes for co-op play.

// Weapon Rerolling
You don't like what your Kuva lich is using, and you know the current Requiem mods needed to vanquish them, then you can force them to surrender their weapon, then they'll reroll their weapon for the given element they have... Based on the weapon they had previously.

// Friends we make along the way
Let their rank on conversion become their percentage chance of them joining you in your mission + their effectiveness in combat. Converting them after a certain point should reward you with a beacon that'll let you summon them in combat, for keeping them around that long.

I have issues with the thematic element of the Kuva Liches, but I'm gonna hold those thoughts until Empyrean comes into play.

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I was having a great time with the kuva lich system until this change 
Fixed ALL players receiving Kuva Lich Requiem Murmur progress whenever someone in the squad fails to kill their Kuva Lich instead (is only meant to apply to the player that did the failing). While all Thralls share Requiem Murmurs, the Lich entity itself is exclusive to a player. This also fixes receiving Requiem Murmur progress when successfully killing a Kuva Lich - only failure/testing of your Requiem on a Kuva Lich will grant Murmur progress.

The process right now is far too grindy, and making that change removed my enthusiasm for the liches despite myself really enjoying it.


So, how to adjust the system for the better. It involves work unfortunately!

I get why the change was made to other peoples liches. However, as it stands it takes far too long to unlock a murmur. Reverting the change would be my first suggestion. 
Then, reduce the amount of murmurs needed from 60/60/140 to 50/50/50%

As for requiem mods, add them to the kuva siphon/flood mission complete as a chance on top of the relic. Small chance is fine. 
Now for the big stuff.
Instead of using forma to upgrade our KUVA weapons we should use kuva instead. 65 forma for max mastery is alot but this updates tagline is personalize your villain. Rng gun with a pseudo rng element type isn't exactly personalized. So lets have upgrades or modifications to the kuva weapons that cost Kuva, such as Max Rank and element type..
And then the next change, have killing a Lich award say, 20-30k kuva but converting a lich, That should reward with a hefty 50k.

And lastly, something to think about. If we could personalize our villain with kuva after conversion. Upgrade them to use their powers, switch or upgrade their weapons etc. That would be fantastic.

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