(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[Andikki]

Finally a lich did something impactful 😆

[DanteLegion]

A letter of thanks, and concern.

Dear Digital Extremes Team,

I'd like to start with, thank you. I've been an off-and-on player for a long time, and this past year or so I really got back into Warframe. I enjoy it very much, LOVE the story you've been able to give me, and the Universe you've planted to build. Currently I sit at a happy small 958 hours played, though I remember when it first launched, and my Frame options were just budding. (Sorry to say, I learned to despise Loki, but that was my own misunderstanding. Trying to wash that bad taste out now).

However, I am concerned and openly disappointed about something.

I enjoy many of my games. I enjoy a challenge, pushing myself in real life, and entertainment. I appreciate that I can log in to many games, complete a set of tasks or challenges, and get a reward for my efforts. However, there are several differences between entertainment and time-sinks, a game and a job, a challenge and an undue punishment, content and RNG. For instance, I sign into GTA V, I do some tasks, I get paid, I accomplish a goal and get something I need or want in game. I play Payday 2, I play a set of missions, I get better at my in-game shots, get paid, and get new toys. Some games I play, I thoroughly enjoy for true new content. Something to explore and discover like reading a really good novel.

Old Blood is none of these. Not even a job set of tasks, for a reward. I understand that it doesn't truly take long to get some weapon I don't want, and I'm thankful we now can-opt out of getting a lich, but I got my first one, was excited to pursue him, and then realized that I don't care. He sits on Lua, offers a funny repeated line now and then, and takes resources I'm not in dire need of. I have already explored all the content at this point. When did I realize that I don't care?

When I looked at Nightwave.

I looked at my tasks, the milestone rewards, and was guaranteed the reward I wanted if I worked at it. (I want me some delicious Umbral Forma).  I've pursued things I hadn't done before, participated in events I didn't care for, because I was promised a reward I want. However, if I truly find a Lich I want to go after, first they have to spawn the way I want them and/or their weapon (which I am lead to believe can be directly affected by my actions now, so cool. If I get rid of my first). Then, once I have my Lich, I need relics. Fine enough, just grind for a chance at my reward, an appropriate Relic. Then grind for Void Traces to increase the chance at my reward, a Parazon Mod. THEN grind the actual Relics and hope I get the Parazon mods I need before running out of Relic supply. Then grind murmurs to learn which mods I need on my parazon. Then face My lich and grind a sequence (only three mods to find a sequence, not as time-consuming as everything before now). 

Before now, most of your reward system required very little stacked layers of RNG. I want a regular part? Kill a boss. Sometimes kill them a LOT. Want a prime? Probably got a bunch of Relics in my travels, grind that relic, and if you don't get what you want after the 20 Relics you have, go grind where that Relic drops, then grind it more. Two RNG stages, at most.

The Old Blood was not much content, as most of it was reworks (LOVE my little Vampire Kitty, though). So now I've explored what was offered. However, I'd prefer to work my 9-5 job. Get paid outright for my efforts, get promotions and a sense of great accomplishments, reward myself with purchases in a suspect economy,. (Maybe buy something I want in Warframe?) If not that, then train my body, reward myself with a good physique and health through sweat and tears. Maybe buy some tools for my workshop and obtain a new skillset. Or, in my downtime, play some GTA V or Witcher. Be outright rewarded for my efforts and time.

All in all, I look forward to the Empyrean update, the grown Operator, the content you're working so hard on to give us, and I'm thankful for that adventure. I wish my Zaw still moved me around a room like a whirlwind of death, but beggars can't be choosers. 

If you read this, thank you once more, for taking the time to do so.

Sincerely,

Dante

Edited November 9, 2019 by DanteLegion

[-Starlet-]

The problem

Reduced will of players due to waste of time

I'll write about what makes players will down and wasting time (It's based on my opinion, but It seems all players have the same problem)

 

- Lich brought the same(already player have) kuva weapons that has lower damage than player have

Now It has Kuva Weapon Combining: VALENCE TRANSFER but If players find lich that has lower damage than he/she have, It is meaningless to get that weapon

Thus, players can waste whole time about killing kuva lich that players don't need

 

 

The Solution

(            is what I suggest if someone who wants to see fast)

It seems based on high level players who wants more hard missions and contents

Players want more good rewards when completing high level missions, not just time waste

So I'll not to say about the basic farming system about killing kuva lich if It is reasonable, meaningful time consume

 

- Lich brings same(already player have) kuva weapons that has low damage than player have

I heard kuva lich's weapon damage bonus is 25% - 60%

We have already Kuva Weapon Combining: VALENCE TRANSFER system for If player gets more high damage weapon

But we don't have any solution about low damage weapons

So, If you have A% damage weapon, next time when you find same kuva weapon, It has at least A+1% damage

Example)

- This is what player have

Kuva Seer (Toxic)

damage bonus 40%

 

- Next time kuva lich have

Kuva Seer (Toxic)

damage bonus 41% - 60%

 

When player reach 60%, That weapon never appear again with same status (Seems It needs toggle system that "I don't want to get this weapon with this status anymore" or button about "I'll summon kuva lich with this weapon with this status" If player reached 60% / Because some players love modding, decorating appearance So they'll need more same weapon If slots are not enough)

It makes player reason for farming and no wasted time because weapon's damage is keep improving (even if you don't want that weapon, but It is basically RNG)

And If player repeats killing kuva lich, the chance of getting other kuva weapons are improving

 

Also, we have 7 different status (Impact, Cold, Electricity, Heat, Toxic, Radiation, Magnetic) so It should takes long time for getting all different weapons with all different status

So It won't be done easily

 

 

// Second solution (I don't love this solution but I just want to tell them there are many solutions)

Adding 'Giving up kuva lich' system

Before explain, this features are needed

- Kuva Lich has 10,000 capacity (It is randomly I choose) for leaving solar system forever

- Resource has point that Kuva Lich stolen (for example, credit = 1 point, lith relic = 100 points)

 

 

If kuva lich's capacity(It should be low point require for leaving because of new players) is full by stolen player's item, makes kuva lich leave if player wants (without returning anything)

 

//

Why I don't love this solution

- Resource points seems hard to balance

If some resource is easy to farm, all players keep farming same resource

- Kuva Lich randomly stolen items

After farm, If kuva lich don't steal it, It is time wasted progress

 

 

That's all I suggest

The point of my opinion is 'No Time Waste', 'If you put more time in it, you get more reward on it'

It is based on my experience(I got 25% damage 2x kuva quartakk, totally I got 4 kuva quartakk) but It may happen from other players

I hope it can improve our game play without time waste

 

Thank you for reading !

Edited November 10, 2019 by -Starlet-

[MirageKnight]

To deal with the duplicate Kuva weapon problem, I'd like to make a recommendation.

When generating a Lich nemesis for a player, the game should check for existing Kuva weapons in the player's inventory and only equip the Lich with a random weapon that the player does NOT have. This is to prevent instances of players winding up with duplicate Kuva weapons. If the player has all the Kuva weapons that are available, the game is allowed to generate a random Kuva weapon for the Lich nemesis.

Given the grind involved in in dealing with a Lich nemesis, this would do much to relieve player frustration.
 

[Xamerzan]

I'm sure this has been discussed before; I think Requiem Mods should be rechargeable and potentially upgraded.

Perhaps it could use 1000 Kuva per-tick and takes 24h for each tick to be recharged, but the mod cannot be used while it's recharging. Additionally maybe Requiem Mods can be fused with each other to have additional ticks up to a total of 5 ticks.

[motorfirebox]

The rage meter takes FOREVER to fill up if you've already got all your requiems discovered, possibly because taking out lich thralls doesn't affect the rage meter if you're not getting murmurs. 

[ArindeI]

Kuva lich is kinda terrible... At the very least, you ought to hide what weapon is the lich using. This way, we'll be massively disappointed at the end, not at the beginning. Literally same gameplay, just different feelings at different times, but equal motivation between lich hunts. 

Way less murmur farming, seriously, it's very mind numbing what we have right now and I can't stand it anymore. Either less murmur or add alternate ways of getting murmur.

Also coop incentives, but it has to be murmur otherwise there's no point because resources I can find elsewhere. Rewarding kuva for coop-ing is pointless in my eyes.

Allow recharging defiled mods for 3k Kuva for a single charge.

Edited November 9, 2019 by ArindeI

[RedPixel22]

I've so far killed 2 liches, and I must say, they were enjoyable to fight.

I normally do the lich missions solo and I'm not really in it for the rewards so I don't have anything to say on coop or the weapon aspect really. Although I have seen plenty of complaints on those subjects.

I don't mind the relic or murmur grind, especially after all the hotfixes.

My only gripe is the Lich's instant kill back breaker it does to get stronger. I find it thematically out of place and kind of demoralizing too. Luckily you guys are working to change it up slightly so I have hope.

On a somewhat unrelated note I hope the parazon has more uses in the future. So far to me it seems kind of useless outside of lich missions.

Edited November 10, 2019 by RedPixelFlame
Changed RNG to grind

[diaversai]

I like the gameplay loop of killing liches but I agree with everyone else on the duplicate weapon issue. There needs to be a way around it. I got 1 new weapon out of the last 11 liches I killed. I'm still missing 5 weapons. Each lich takes 2-3 hours for me, and it's burning me out pretty quickly and it feels futile. 

I think part of the issue is that it feels completely disconnected from everything else. Having a lich alive means they can steal your stuff if you're on their planets, but unless you go after them specifically, you're not learning anything about them to kill them better. It makes a situation where if you're spawning them, you probably should just kill them or don't bother spawning them at all. Would be nice if you could get murmur progress from regular play. Maybe from a mini-boss spawning or something while you're doing unrelated tasks like sorties, fissures, whatever.

I also wish their rage meter wouldn't reset. It just makes the grind longer for no real reason.

I don't know. I love the game, but the duplicate weapons feel like the game isn't respecting my time, and honestly I don't know if I'd bother hunting liches at all if not for the mastery. Two to three hours for something that probably isn't what you want, and might be completely worthless feels like I should be doing something else. 

[Sebith]

Give us progression! - the goal we will strive for. Let us work towards something... towards something we will eventually achieve. Let us see that goal on the horizon - the achievement of maxing out the weapon. This Valence Transfer feature could do it. Let us utilize those weaker weapons as well. Let us combine them to slowly increase the power of weapon. Right now in current state, the more we combine the more often we'll be getting weaker weapons. It's endless work without end-goal. In the future the problem will escalate when more weapons will be added. Better fix it now.

Since our warframes can affect element of kuva weapon, it make sense to do the same with weapon type. That could fix all problems. Unfortunately i have a strong feeling that the focus is on fixing the effects of the problem instead of their cause.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Sebith

[CandyManCriminal]

replace amber star in requiem relics with a forma bp
have larvae hold the weapon they would have as a lich
make it so we can crush a kuva weapon into any other kuva weapon to increase it's bonus by 5%
when someone stabs their lich give 5x progress to their allies instead of the 10x they were getting or the 0x they get now
have liches drop kuva when stabbed, maybe 500 per stab
have thralls drop 250 kuva at a 10% rate (without it stopping them from dropping a relic)
 

[Clooden]

I can't get a Kuva Larvling to spawn.

I did a lot of LVL 20+ Grineer missions(mostly Adaro & Cassini). Over 2 hours solo & 2 hours public. In solo not a single larve spawned, no Screen flickering and stuff. I only managed to kill a larve in public when other people joined and I stole the kill from them. 

I asked for help from friends and random people and they all get the larve 1st try but I can't get  even one after more then 2 hours doing solo missions.

Please fix this ASAP.

[Har-Vestor]

Covert Lethality. You said it was on the way out, replaced by the parazon. People pleaded to let them have daggers that actually can do something. You said "OK, its staying."

Then you changed it so it is in no way longer the mod people talked about and laughed into our faces. Nice way of interacting with a community, nice way to keep your word. 
The Lich system: remove the  randomness of "lol, lets guess the order", make it skill based once you have the mods. Give the Tenno a way to not be instantly killed, circumventing all defenses or even damage immunity from abilities, just for not having knowledge there is no way to get hold off besides nonsensical suiciding into an enemy. Russian roulette is not a game, it's idiocy.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Har-Vestor

[AreeSoothsayer]

Vengeful Chill Ephemera.

By and large it looks good but those specks that are supposed to be snowflakes shouldn't be spitting out and about. They should be gently drifting down like the rest of the stuff.

[AreeSoothsayer]

8 minutes ago, Clooden said:

I can't get a Kuva Larvling to spawn.

I did a lot of LVL 20+ Grineer missions(mostly Adaro & Cassini). Over 2 hours solo & 2 hours public. In solo not a single larve spawned, no Screen flickering and stuff. I only managed to kill a larve in public when other people joined and I stole the kill from them. 

I asked for help from friends and random people and they all get the larve 1st try but I can't get  even one after more then 2 hours doing solo missions.

Please fix this ASAP.

The Larva spawns when you do fast kills of alot of grineer. If you're just jetting through then it won't spawn.

[Zelmen]

For the F sake make Liches have a despawn mech when the owner won't do anything. Are you try to drive people into more solo play than there already is. 5 mission in a row. Making it very hard to enjoy this new content when there is complete stop holders on aspects of it.

[Tenno76856]

For those *@##$ing/whining about people not killing their Lich in group mission, how does it feel on the other foot when you dont have mods/ability to kill your own Lich sucessfully?. Do you kill yourself too knowing Lich will get another level and make it even harder to kill?.

The Lich thing got released at a too low a level (should never have been a lvl20 mission to spawn a larvaling) and should have been only available say lvl 60/70+ (it effectively is post Void/Lua type mobs anyway)

[Chroia]

 

On 2019-10-31 at 8:16 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

• Intruder: + Additional Seconds to hacking. 
• Live Wire: Shock Enemies within 24 meters while hacking.  
• Auto Breach: 30% Chance to autohack! 
• Runtime: +45% Sprint Speed after hack.
• Master Key: Unlock nearby lockers after hacking
• Untraceable: Become invisible for 18s after hacking. 
• Failsafe: 50% Chance to retry a failed hack. 

Hacking is too unreliably available for all the non-hacking utility mods to be worth slotting over Failsafe/Auto Breach and either Live Wire or Intruder.

 

On 2019-10-31 at 8:16 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

• Blood for Life: 50% chance to create a Health Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Energy: 50% chance to create an Energy Orb on Mercy.
• Blood for Ammo: Mercy refills magazine by 100%
• Hit and Rune: On Mercy: +60% Parkour speed for 6 seconds
• Out Of Sight: Blind Enemies with 18 meters on ‘Mercy’ kill.

Mercies are too unreliably available for any of these to be much use. See following.
Better slotted than not, as it's a non-zero improvement, but it's not much greater than zero.

 

On 2019-10-31 at 8:16 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

PARAZON FINISHERS: AKA ‘MERCY’

* Absolutely do not replace Covert Lethality.
They're no more lethal than a couple more bullets, and you need to have gotten to what? 15% remaining HP before they even have a chance to roll.

I get that you might not like level agnostic oneshots, but am genuinely not sure I see the problem - you've been going down the quantity > quality road for literal years, and it doesn't work on VIPs anyway.
Who cares if you can oneshot any (applicable) enemy, one at a time, with a ~1.4 sec animation, when there are always 20 more on screen?

(Optimistically, this'd be a first step in reprioritizing quality, but I'm not optimistic.)

* Mercy proccing suffers from scaling, same as everything else:
Either things die too fast, or you're gonna struggle getting them to 40% HP, let alone 15%, when a mercy might trigger.
There's a narrow band of 'level appropriate' enemy scaling, which gets farther along and narrower the more player power increases (barring prepared meta squads who can go pretty much forever). This isn't conducive to Mercies being a thing.

- What's their intent? Doom-esque Glory Kills (as the rare Assassin mods seem to indicate)?

-----

Regarding Liches: They don't seem to make any sense in-universe.

Why are they created by them dying?
And if the point is that they're undying once they're created, failed assassinations should result in them dying temporarily, i.e. in that mission, and returning unharmed once it's completed.
As it stands, they don't give off a very 'undying' vibe, since failed assassinations result in a counter-KO.
That's not undying, that's immortal (with a large asterisk).

Further:
They're inspired by Shadow of Mordor. Nemeses are created when they kill you.
And this makes perfect sense for Warframe: A new player's introduction to Warframe is Vor's Prize, which prominently features the line:
"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

As the quest progresses, the Ascaris (whatever that is) creates a link between you and Vor, as per:
"The Ascaris has reached your mind and rendered your Lotus mute. you will return to me... over your own free will." and
"This part of your journey is over, Tenno. I admire you for your struggle, but now... heheh... I am part of you."

Fast forward to the end of Vor's Prize, and Vor is cut in half, destroyed.
But fast forward rather further, and you find him Corrupted, in the Void where he was "reborn".
He claims it was the Janus key. It seems to me he's only part right. But I'll get back to that.

Moving along, the player discovers The Second Dream, and that Vor was right - the Warframes are a focus lens "glass shaping <the Tenno's> furious light".
Proceed to The War Within, and we have the Elder Worm Queen, knowledgeable of Transference, able to manipulate the Tenno's connection to the Warframe.

Now, Vor creates a link to the Warframe, not knowing about Transference, but figuring out some of the riddle on his own.
The link established, (giving him a beachhead, a connection to the Tenno's Void energy,) he dies.
But he's not Kuva-spiked, so the link to the Void energy doesn't revive him as a Lich. Instead, the Janus key (somehow) expands his link to the Void (possibly creating/attracting a Void Fissure?), revivifying him.
Note: Warframe worldbuilding needs to decide whether the Neural Sentry and Void Demon both (still) exist, and what-if-any relation they have with each other. Given that, whether Vor should actually be Corrupted Vor is unclear.

But that's a tangent.
Regardless, we have precedent for an undying character - their undeath linked directly to Transference.

Enter the Junior Worm Queen. We don't know what exactly she knows, or how skilled she is using the Kuva (but she's supposedly a few thousand years old, with all the Continuity that that requires, so, ya know, safe bet).
She decides, 'hey, I have all this Kuva, and Continuity kinda sucks. True immortality would be kinda cool though. Now if only I had a literal army of disposable clones to development the proccess via trial-and-error.
Oh, right.'
And this is what she proceeds to do - preparing sacrificial Larva, spiked with Kuva. All she needs is to forge a connection between them and the Tenno's Void energy/Transference.

What makes better sense here:
Getting them stabbed in the face by Hidden Blade, or seeding them throughout the ranks as boobytraps, so that there might be one around to interfere with the (possibly) most potent (and relevant) aspect of Transference: Revival?

Tenno faces Grineer squad.
Tenno dies.
Tenno revives.
> You just activated my Trap card!
Kuva-spiked Larva, hidden in plain sight, catches the surge, triggering their apoetheosis - and a Kuva Lich is born.
They may die and die again, but their Transference (or Void) connection remains, allowing them to rise again and again - until their Oro is destroyed, as per Teshin of T H E C O N C L A V E.

And how does one destroy Oro? Mastermind Chants from Reqlics, same as now (I guess).

Does this not make more sense?
Or is the New New Player Experience™ set to change this?

Edited November 10, 2019 by Chroia

[Gruntworks]

Converted Lich drawing fire to stealth frame location when it spawns.

I noticed this behavior doing a 2 hour survival on Ivara opening new requiem relics.

While I'm in prowl stealing life support and waiting for enemies to become affected with void fissure to kill them for reactant. My converted lich spawned 4 times in the 2 hour run of (Taveuni- Kuva Fortress) and got me killed every time he spawned because he did nothing but follow very closely and draw AoE fire to my location. He moves rather quickly and closes any gap you create very fast. I tried rolling away from him a few times and died. I resorted to dropping a cloak arrow on him and using a dash wire arrow to get away from him on a Z axis (this is of course after having to use a revive because he instantly gets me killed.) It happens extremely fast, you are surrounded by lvl 200+ enemies stealing life support and as soon as he spawns (right on top of you) they mob him with fire that splash kills you instantly, I even have quick thinking mod and 744 energy from primed flow and still get melted in less than 1 second. This is so counteractive to Ivara game-play and I'm regretting converting a Lich all together at this point. 

Constructive suggestions:

#1 Make them infinite use specters with 1-2 charges per mission.- This would give player overall control of situations where we would not want the lich out at all. 

#2 Give them an interact function for stay/follow. 

If they absolutely must be randomly spawned- 

#3 Lich goes stealth with frame.- If the enemies can't see them, then there is no problem.

#4 Freeze Lich spawn if character is in stealth.- Would protect stealth frames from these random death procs

#5 Lich does crowd control effect such as blast proc.- would give player time to react to lich spawning on them.

#5 Have Lich create a shield bubble when they spawn, possibly with a knock back effect like frost bubble.- would give player time to react to lich spawning on them.

* FYI The lich I converted has a melee weapon (Kuva Shildeg) I don't know if one with a gun would act different.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Gruntworks

[DrakeWurrum]

What if we added a system for kuva liches to have lieutenants? My thinking goes like this.

Every time you kill a certain number of your lich's thralls (say... ballpark of 10 or 15) they select one of their thralls, impressed by how well they managed against you (even though they died), and grant it a portion of their own kuva-enriched blood. Just a touch.

This generates a small "lesser lich" for them as a lieutenant (and perhaps there's a limit to only one lieutenant at a time). It can have the same damage type, but it would randomly generate it's own kuva weapon (both type and damage bonus). It would effectively function as a mini-boss, weaker than your actual lich (they can't have a subordinate matching their power after all).

So that it doesn't get in the way: the lieutenant would get it's own specific Assassination node among one of your lich's controlled sectors, meaning you can specifically choose to go after this lieutenant. It would only require *one* correct Requiem mod to take out, thus having only one HP bar, and it would be a random one of the three mods required for your actual lich. So with 3 mods on your Parazon, you'll have an easier time figuring out how to kill it - and kill it or not, you get a lot of Murmurs. Naturally, killing it nets you that weapon. Failing to kill it (because of not having the right Requiem) means you still at least get murmurs, and you'd then have to evacuate the mission area to "retreat and reconsider your strategy" or whatever.

The idea for this suggestion being.... if for whatever reason you want to keep your specific lich, or you simply want an easier method to farm kuva weapons, you can do that by farming lieutenants. And it sounds to me like a much more fun method of farming murmurs than killing dozens of thralls.
Even if you don't choose to keep your lich around and just farm lieutenants, this breaks up the monotony of grinding thralls by giving you another target who can drop a kuva weapon for you.

-
Admittedly, I may have framed the concept wrong, but with the right set-up, it could address some of the issues people are having with kuva weapon RNG.

[diaversai]

I think the problem might be that the weapon is the reward for the hunt, and if it's a lesser strength duplicate that means there's no reward for the hunt at all.  Everything else in Warframe has a reward, even if it's not what you're looking for exactly. The lich has none except that you get back what you wouldn't've lost if you weren't fighting the lich.

Let's take Atlas Prime Neuroptics, as an example. That took me hours to farm doing repeated interceptions for the Axi relics. I mostly didn't get the relic I wanted, but I always did get an axi relic, which might have something I need for later.  And when you open up the relic, you might not get the Neuroptics, but worst case scenario you got some ducats and some void traces.

The Kuva Liches don't give you a consolation prize if the weapon is a duplicate with worse stats. You wasted hours + it cost you 3 charges of your requiem mods. It's paying for nothing. If conversion was better, this might be fine.

I'd suggest adding a secondary reward structure to it. Like a sortie pool of rewards. Could have fully built Forma, arcanes, rivens, whatever. That way, if you fail, at least you got something. Thematically,  you'd be looting the stuff that the Lich stole from the sector or whatever. 

 

[SableSonata]

My opinion of this system continues to sour further. 

I just got finished cleaning up a bad tenth Lich with a triplicate Kuva Ogris (Of the 11 liches I've had, 5 had duplicate weapons), and was looking forward to seeing what came next.

What came next? A Quadruplicate Kuva Ogris. 

Now I have to spend 2-3 hours cleaning up this lich (and replacing the requiem mods I wasted on the last one) and as a reward I get nothing.

The grind is worse than the Lato and Braton Vandal, and at least I could buy those if I wanted to.

 

You win, DE. I give up on the Kuva Lich system.

[Kaadu]

Kuva Lich:

I like going back the the starchart again. Seeing low level areas outside of relics is refreshing.
The lich influence being spread over an entire planet forces players to play a variety of mission types when grinding their lich, which is good otherwise we'd all just be doing exterminates.
 

Mechanics:

Level 5 Lich missions are straining the abilities of my weapon to do significant damage. I need to break out the cheap stuff when I do them.
I wonder how non fully equipped players can handle level 5 Lich missions. Level 5 Gunners and Nox are super tanky and hit very hard.

When you die to a failed requiem combo, you should get a free revive with no mastery penalty. Since you can run into the lich when you know your combo won't work (because you don't have enough requiem mods or you know the ones you have don't work) and you just want the lich to go away / level up.

After reading this thread, some posters commented that you don't actually kill your lich multiple times as advertised (in some of the Lich voice lines). Failing a requiem combo could maim the Lich, but the wound reverses itself and like the initial murder of the kuva larvae, the lich gets stronger and warps away.
At max level, the Lich kills you instead of growing stronger.

Liches from other players should be able to invade after a set time if you haven't killed the first one. Not sure how the ui should look though. I guess show the status of the last Lich the player hit.
The problem is that is a person doesn't die to their lich, then people waiting to try and kill theirs can't do it, so letting the liches come all at once (staggered) would solve that.
The liches could have unique enemy assist lines when they team up. Or lines when they down another Liches tenno while the other lich is present.

Lich Tax:

I have a pretty large stockpile of resources from playing the game so long, so this tax isn't effecting me much. It might have a greater effect on newer players though.

To be honest, the Lich tax doesn't make much sense. How exactly are they taking your stuff?
The only way it sort off makes sense if that the Lich has pre-looted the area before you got there. So that's why some of the stuff is 'missing' from your rewards screen.
 
Of course, they should only take excess resources in a stack you picked up. So if you pick up a single item (like a orokin cell) it can't be taxed because you picked up physical model of the resource. Though if you somehow grabbed a 2x orokin cell, it might be a 1x instead because the Lich looted it.
Preventing 1x pickups from being stolen would help prevent the Lich from blocking you from building things (like if they just stole all the orokin cells you pick up, you don't get to build that new weapon that takes an orokin cell)
Another way the lich could steal stuff is if you hit resource crates, they might be empty of resources. The missing resources show up on the mission complete screen as stolen.

Boss drops should never be taxed. I doubt the Lich can steal from them. It also helps the Lich not block progress, only delay it. So you can farm resources from bosses like Ruk freely if you want.

Another way they could steal from you is if they down you / kill you, they walk / teleport over and take all your loot before leaving.
Your loot pops out as if you were an enemy that got killed, and flows into the Lich as if they have vacuum mod. A sort of reversal of roles. It would be funny to witness.
Maybe extend this to thralls as well, they will steal and teleport out on the Lich's behalf if a Tenno (with a Lich) goes down close enough to a thrall. The thrall would have to turn invincible once they get close enough to a downed tenno target, so you don't have to visually give the resources back to the player if you kill the thrall before it teleports out.

Requiem mods:

In general the random amount of time to acquire the parts to kill your lich is pretty frustrating. In future I will avoid spawning or leveling up a Lich unless I have a full set of requiem mods.
Even though the normal relic grind is rng on top of rng, I don't mind as much since you don't NEED prime things, and things you don't want can be traded for ducats.
Well, you need requiem mods. So grind grind grind or pay up chump, selling a set of requiem mods in the store feels scummy.
The alternate rewards from requiem relics are not appealing either. I don't bother with rivens or kuva, and exilius adapters seem niche.

Currently thralls after you've collected three whispers don't do anything. I was going to suggest extra whispers give you a relic of the type you need, but the patch to give relics to thralls seems ok as well.

Scope of Lich encounters:

A thing about the shadow of mordor orcs, was that they could just show up during normal play, you didn't need to go hunt them specifically. I think this is a key part of the design that Warframe is missing.
It's hard to think of the kuva lich as much of a constant nemesis if you only see them when you are specifically looking for them. Otherwise they just send you texts when they steal your stuff through no effort of their own.

At least thralls should be able to show up on non lich missions within Lich territory, so you can progress your lich while doing other things. Though, maybe limit the appearance of Liches by mission type over time. So you can't just farm a single mission for murmurs.
Thralls match the level of the non mission, so lowbies don't encounter other peoples high level thralls.

I think the grind for killing a lich would be less annoying if you could encounter thralls and Liches in other missions.

Even on the Vallis. A Lich and crew could show up for a bounty mission and be a third faction trying to loot corpus supply containers for example.
When doing corpus or infested missions on a Lich world, the lich can show up trying to 'take over the area'.
Or on grineer missions a lich world, the Lich might be recruiting thralls on the mission map somewhere.
Or just show up unexpectedly in a mission because they knew you would be there and try to take your stuff.

Their offence when invading would need to scale with the difficulty of the mission, their durability can stay matched to their current level though. Possibly their offence scales up to their level if they lose their first health bar.

Also, they should probably leave random invasions after some sort of timer has elapsed / they lose enough thralls and decide to cut their losses and leave. So the player doesn't need to level the lich up to make them leave, but also doesn't want them sticking around for an entire 20 wave defence.
If you encounter a Lich in a Lich mission, they won't leave until they die or kill you, as current.

Kuva Weapons:

Having to Forma each weapon 5 times to get mastery is really crap. It was fine for a once off lore weapon like the Paracesis, but not for a series of weapons.

Parazon:

Mercy kills against non thralls are pretty rare.
Blood for Health parazon mod that give a single health orb seems really bad. Wow, 25 health. Getting hit once can take out 80% of your 600 health pool. 25 health may as well be nothing.
The animation where you throw the target over and behind you takes too long to return control to the player. It isn't fluid enough.

Why is it called 'mercy' when you violently execute someone with your parazon?

 

[DonLakonchinno]

The whole Kuva Lich system feels like a mishmash of ideas (Kingpin system, "field bosses", etc) devs had for a while that got abandoned, then gotten back to, then abandoned again and so on until someone from higher up said "there was barely any content in 2019, do something already!". The impression is that the whole system is not well thought out, poor in content, repetitive and isn't created to entertain the player, but to be "something to do" before Empyrean and New War (are those still coming in 2019? lmao).

Rewards are nonexistant, the whole system is dependant on you getting through ridiculous levels of RNG (Do a mission to get a chance of getting a relic to get a chance to get a mod to get a chance to hurt the lich, which gets even worse when you need one specific type of a mod and keep getting relics that you don't need. (Are Requiem II relics even present in the game? All I get are I III and IVs)).

Liches are merely an annoyance and their only meaningful purpose seems to be to mock the low MR players who accidentally kill their larvas and don't have the equipment to consistently run high level missions to kill thralls. Even their creation is extremely poor - duplicate personalities are all I had, like my first female and male liches were just copypasted onto my next liches (with some voice processing on top). Its gotten ridiculous at one point: during one mission all three liches that showed up had the same personality and lines. Their quirks are rare and the only function those have are "funny" voice lines, not impacting the battlefield at all.

Liches also keep mentioning how they died many times and will die many more and that death won't stop them, and that is a cool concept that for some reason got abandoned sometime during the development I guess because liches only die ONCE - when they're in their Larva form, after that its either they're vanquished/converted forever or you're getting YEETed into a wall and are the one who dies all the time.

Edited November 10, 2019 by DonLakonchinno

[Aldain]

14 minutes ago, Kaadu said:

When you die to a failed requiem combo, you should get a free revive with no mastery penalty.

...Wouldn't it just be better to not die in the first place?