(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[Chatv71e]

Kuva Ogris, just like the regular Ogris, still doesn't work properly in hands of AI.

 

It has range limitations and AI will not fire it unless they walk up close to enemy. On top of that fire rate also doesn't do anything because AI still think that Kuva ogris is a charged weapon and will attempt to charge it for set duration. 

 

I've been posting that for years and gonna keep doing that till maybe it will get fixed. 

 

[QuinnCarter]

Dying to Kuva lichs for failing the requiem mod combination feels overly discouraging and really unnecessary. It would be fine if the failure just resulted in the lich leaving, and it would feel less discouraging to try and get rid of a lich during a mission where you are just trying to get murmurs.

That said, there's no incentive to try fighting the lich without going for the kill. My suggestion is that anytime you chase off a lich, they wont tax you when you complete that certain mission.

[Kaadu]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

...Wouldn't it just be better to not die in the first place?

that would work as well. Whichever is an easier change. Though them not killing you would make the Lich look weak.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Kaadu

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I think that instead of "dying" to the lich, the operator could go in transference and void dash into the lich to make her flee.

Lore wise the tenno are the dangerous void demons who killed the queen. Why are they useless against the kuva liches ?

[Renzo]

Ok, time to give some feedback, that is quite negative for some parts but I have at least two positives, which are:

1. kuva weapons are quite nice, I actually like them quite a lot
2. the increased level of the enemies is nice, but it requires you to fail at first which sucks

Having said those, the rest of the feedback is going to be that negative part.

So I have played the old blood since the release almost exclusively with the exception of doing sorties every day and I did few of the kuva missions and requiem relic fissures to get the required mod thingies to actually kill the liches. Up to this date I have defeated 8 liches and it takes maybe 2 hours or a bit mroe to defeat one from the start when I am playing non-stop. This means I have time for 1-2 liches a day at best but absolutely not more and even so I don't have time for anything else on that day after all the other stuff I do in my life.

The change that was made to the murmurs that reveals the two first parazon thingies faster was a good start, now you can just play around with your lich when it shows up and "farm" for the murmurs and get 2 reveals acceptably fast (note: this doesn't mean "time well spent" because it definitely isn't) but this is where it ends.

• Revealing the last thing required, even if you are mercying every single thrall during your missions will most likely not happen before the lich is defeated (or almost defeated) when you have to attempt to defeat it 6-8 times.

Oh yeah, I absolutely loathe the "guess right or die like a noob" mechanic this parazon has.

Of course I might have "bad luck" guessing the rng compared to others, but this is extremely frustrating and in my opinion needs to change. Or is it that you actually want us to fail as many times as possible? I for one, don't consider this luck rolling rng "succeed or die" kind of gameplay fun or rewarding at all, it's quite the opposite. This leads to the second part of the rng being just awful. If I remember correctly, there are 13 new kuva weapons. As I said before I have defeated 8 liches up to date and this is what I have gotten so far:

• 2x kuva quartakk
• kuva kraken
• 3x kuva kohm
• kuva shildeg
• kuva ogris

Just wow. I have basically wasted around 6 hours (extra quartakk + two extra kohms) for the duplicates I did not want at this point, or maybe even ever, instead of getting something else that I would probably have wanted to try and for the mastery I want. It's up to the point already where I see a duplicate, I don't even want to play the game anymore because of the time it takes to "get rid off" the current lich that has that duplicate, simply because getting the duplicate at this point is not something I desire.

What I would like to see is these issues been adressed somehow. Yes, what I mean is that I do not want to spend this much time for just some weapons because trying defeat kuva liches simply takes too much time considering the duplicate chance.

EDIT: I just spawned my 9th kuva lich and guess what is the weapon it has? Yet another kuva kohm. How about no thanks at this point.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Renzo

[Maj-Cero]

Regarding Defiled Requiem mods.

Can they all just be renamed to Defiled Requiem. I ask this because even tho the change to show number of mods owned from relic reward section, the defiled mods still effect this number for an inaccurate reading.

Also if they can be renamed as above mentioned, please let them stack in the mods. I haven't sold any of mine for credits/endo in hopes that will eventually be transmutable and since they don't stack it is kinda messy with all my defileds swapping out requiem mods for lich hunting.

[Famine]

Converted Kuva Liches should be able to use their abilities. And the reason for this is pretty simple: they arrive for limited time (1 minute), they arrive only on rare occasions (after being invaded or getting downed). So why shouldn't they be able to unleash total destruction? It's a 1 minute 1-in-100 chance thing that happens mostly when you play solo, their guns can't do anything against armor so let them spam their abilities for the sake of them being more useful.

Right now there's no real motivation for anyone to convert liches as their helpfulness is very subjective and currently they are viable only on level 20 missions at best. They don't feel like "the Mysterious Stranger" from Fallout not in terms of power that is for sure.

[JoJo.Granum]

Having this issue: I've killed the first Kuva lich but unable to spawn a second.

Games in where I've gotten the first lich, it will flash and flicker red but no larvaling appears. I heard this was a glitch before but is there anything I can do on my end to fix ti?

[UNO168]

we should have control over what weapon we can get from lich instead of this massive rng

[AreeSoothsayer]

32 minutes ago, UNO168 said:

we should have control over what weapon we can get from lich instead of this massive rng

They could make it so the Larva has the weapon the Lich will spawn with from the beginning.

[Raavila]

This Leech thing has totally destroyed my game. i had the misfortune to  kill a larva before the hotfix, and before you all say "get good", evryone is not good or will ever be stars, some of us just want some casuale fun. i´m never on kuva fortress if not needed but now you force me to do this, and its not fun! the way i see it i will never get rid of this thing because it´s to much rng and i dont play that much so my game is ruined. i´ve tried to farm some thralls but the leech came and killed me so he took over more planets, and he is kind of hard to ignore when he takes all your lot from missons. perhapes its time to leave warframe. and that is sad i had a lot of fun but this is not ok that there is no way out for one who just is a happy not to good gamer.

[Raskol]

There should be something done with "lich-lovers" who are not even trying to kill their liches (no matter that it gives you 10 murmur nor that its blocking others ppl lich spawn)

Its making me mad not to be able to kill my lich even tho im rdy for it cause in almost every mission theres a guy like that

There should be some form of punishment for that behaviur OR there should be some change in the system to prevent it/let other liches spawn

[pokpla]

The change making kuva followers drop relics is awesome, getting murmurs dont fell that grindy, because you are getting the relic for the mod, and the murmur,

Well the rewards now for liches are basically the not so random weapons, sure its a little better weapons, but really close to the normal ones, with just a random elemental stat over it.

there are better weapons outside liches, and giving stronger drops to liches is kinda power creep. The differences dont really make them feel unique like random weapons in borderlands, sure we do ahve riven mods, but what will happen to liches after getting all of their weapons? no point in running. If the weapons were rally randomized i dont know, llike with unique effects from other weapons like on pyrana prime, or different types of shooting, like this one shoots explosive rounds, this one hit scan, this one shoots homing rockets at least multiple weapons of the same would be different, and still be worth to kill the lich. Or i don know give the option to convert the weapon into kuva.

Summary: Trully randomized weapons like in borderlands, or kuva option, to ensure there is a point in running kuva liches in the long run, every weapon need to be really different even if its the same weapon, borderlands show that its possible to do that

Well at least maybe the kuva lich weapons need to be close to the strongest ones, otherwise they are really bad and no point in using, well the melee one doesnt really fell like its worth it. Maybe a rnadom modifier, life innate life steal on every attack, random speed bonus, well even with rivens, this on top of that, or maybe unique things like change to freeze solid enemies, a unique attack like z+e, chance to do a real explosion on attacks, or just on every attack, maybe something like excalibur sword shooting things, with limited range, something like exodia contagion or the other exodia, but that depends only on the type of attack, no need to jump for example, just anything unique and that can be used would be good, with a random chance to appear, maybe the option to convert those unique attacks on arcanes that can only be used on kuva weapons, but more thatn one arcane slot would be good, if there are many options. But maybe being just a random thing to that weapon would be good. Or i dont know energy leech

Riven mods are just numbers, they dont make the weapon feel unique

The option to not use those unique features is kinda important, because there is always someone that doesnt like it

Indeed we already have many weapons, but for example a quartakk shooting explosive rounds is still kinda different

The requeim relics droppping on kuva followers is really good

Why the missions with kuva liches are so time limited? why dont let like 30 minute missions where the kiva lich apears many times

Can't the kuva lich drop something confrontation? it feels really pointless to die to them after the murmur are collected maybe a chance to drop a relic too, or kuva,or maybe only when they die. If the weapons are gonna stay as it is there will be no point to kill them in no time

Lvl 5 liches feel much better than the lower ones, maybe the option to choose which level the liches start?

[enemystand]

Can we get a cap based on the survival timer for matchmaking in Lich survival missions, they only last 5 minutes so joining one when there is 2 or 1:30 min left it doesn't feel right we get like 1 or 2 murmurs when that happen.
Also a cap based on conduit completed for disruption, because joining to complete 1 or 2 conduit of 4 total is like we missed half the farm

Edited November 10, 2019 by enemystand

[Educated_Beast]

Posting this here because lots of complaints about duplicate weapons when the solution is easy:

 

 

[UNO168]

1 hour ago, AreeSoothsayer said:

They could make it so the Larva has the weapon the Lich will spawn with from the beginning.

I was thinking the weapon we used to kill him will be the weapon he wields, but I like your suggestion!

[Educated_Beast]

3 hours ago, JoJoTen0 said:

Having this issue: I've killed the first Kuva lich but unable to spawn a second.

Games in where I've gotten the first lich, it will flash and flicker red but no larvaling appears. I heard this was a glitch before but is there anything I can do on my end to fix ti?

Pretty sure he spawns like juggernaut.  You have to kill many units quickly (20?) after flash to be worthy.  

Make sure you do not have a locked door or friendship door preventing progress when lights flicker.  I'd say do it solo but I ran 3 runs solo and lights never flickered. 

In a group they do, but then someone beat me to the larva...

It's a pain no matter what

[Klokwerkaos]

experienced in lich system and game, over 6K in mission hours.

to take the sting off lets start with the positives:  vet players are not guaranteed 100% success in all things at all times now.  that's good.  the idea is good.  much of the stuff I'm not talking about below is good too.

here are some issues with the execution i have identified as concise as i can:

1) in the future when you have rng on top of rng farms to get the actual reward (which is not a bad thing necessarily, this implementation is mostly good save the time investment from grind padding), please release the first farm 1-2 weeks ahead.  for example, with this particular set up you would have released kuva relics bundle and the ability to farm relics and run them for parazon mods 1-2 weeks in advance.  to add value to the lich hunter bundle (sinc e you would have lost some of those sales by releasing first) a huge missed opportunity would have been a shoulder piece that is a kuva lich head.  the armor pieces in it are kinda meh, but that alone would have sold plenty.  this move to allow early preparation for players would have saved a lot of early player frustration and helped ease players into the systems.

2) the opt in system for the liches should have been at launch.  it caused a lot of player frustration especially since people didn't exactly know what they were getting into with liches and many of them regretting having one even though they didn"t want it.  in the future please ensure all systems for advanced players have a dedicated opt in function at launch.  this needs to be a standardized policy.

3) getting 3 dupes in a row of the same stuff you already have sucks a lot when you still have other weapons to get for mastery.  given that each lich at best case scenario (if you don't get incredibly lucky and guess right the first time) is about 2.5-3.5 hours, this equals out to about 10 hours of wasted time for literally no reward.  either please prevent this roll from happening (ie less bonus same weapon), or perhaps consider implementing a system of allowing inferiors to combine for a +1% bonus towards cap since at least that is something we can earn each time through, right now these are worth about 5-10k credits and that's a slap in the face of a reward to any player at the tier required to farm liches.  I know there is talk about implementing a clan trade system, but that's not here and it's a problem.

4) please return shared murmur gain from lich kill, even if you debuff it to 5 for each lich for the rest of the team that's still better than the toxic mess that pubs are at present because of this change.  the pre "fix" was an environment of teamwork.  this is now an environment of "screw you i got mine, enjoy watching us extract while you struggle alone to kill your lich in under a min.  not cool.  this should have been reverted the next day, even if it was only temporary.  since it wasn't i assume the idea is to do something else, and i promise nothing will appeal to other players like cutting down their own grind.  I very much doubt if you do something else, unless it somehow is better than reducing the grind for the player, it will actually address the problem.

5) converted liches are useless.  I have yet to see one kill an enemy even though they can one shot my immortal nidus build.  please make them scale better and also please consider adding on more ways that they can be interacted with.  as it stands converting multiple liches does nothing.  consider having a roster of liches and able to assign them different duties, each of which can potentially benefit the player in some meaningful way.  right now their combat help is always amounting to just being another target for enemies, which is kinda sorta maybe useful, and there help always comes after the time where you would want that.  please give us a reason to convert them, because right now they are useless.  an example of one job would be you could send a lich on recon and it would return with a murmur with a chance to return with three murmurs in an hours time (ie, you have to refresh it, and it only collects for current lich, so you can't carry it over to the next one).  or perhaps you send it out like an extra extractor for resources, maybe with a chance at a riven splinter or something.  if you want to add high value missions in you could argue that they are more costly and add a credit fee to those missions as well.  it doesn't have to be this idea, but there needs to be more interaction with them, and they need to be more useful in combat.

6) in regards to game health, please stop adding more sources of endo (outside of typical mods added).  the new parazon mods have devalued endo to the point where it is worth less than credits (because at least you have to actively farm credits to sell max ranked primed mods, and my time in game is plat; yes, it converts directly).  the current economy for endo is trash and it's preferable to add more resources rather than devalue it further, same goes for kuva.  add more resources and systems rather than drop the value of the current stuff further please.  we have too much endo coming in now, and just the right amount of kuva for it to be accessible, any more kuva will destroy that market as well and make that grind also functionally meaningless.  if you have trouble understanding my logic, consider what happens when new players come in and 20% of players always have 500K endo just laying around.  now with a single purchase of a large plat bundle they have a ton of max rank primed mods right out of the gate... thereby destroying the majority of the content progression for them.  I can't imagine that is good for player retention, player challenge, or de's bottom line when it comes to player purchases.  the progression has to feel meaningful, because if you remove all of the various grinds except acquiring items, then they will chew through all the content in under a year and then it won't be just 5% of us screaming and throwing tantrums for content, it will be more like 50%, and that's not a good place to be either.

7) in the future please stop adding immunities and replace with % resistances.  we have more than enough immunity nonsense now with liches.  scaling resistances and castable % resistances for enemies is the way to go (even if they scale up to 100% eventually).




 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Zoh_Veldae]

Please reduce the number of Forma required to max the Kuva weapons. 5 forma at 2 levels each is not fun. It wasn't fun when Paracesis did it, it's still unfun now. I only managed to max 1 weapon before I got burned out of the entire game.

Make it only require 2 forma at 5 levels each, practically everyone will eventually put 2 forma on their weapons, but almost never 5.

Leave that level of the mechanic for the Paracesis if you'd like, it's fine that it gets to be unique like that, but please reduce it for the Kuva weapons.

[JoJo.Granum]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

Pretty sure he spawns like juggernaut.  You have to kill many units quickly (20?) after flash to be worthy.  

Make sure you do not have a locked door or friendship door preventing progress when lights flicker.  I'd say do it solo but I ran 3 runs solo and lights never flickered. 

In a group they do, but then someone beat me to the larva...

It's a pain no matter what

I finally got one on a mission alone. 
She spawned from Saryn Prime so this should be interesting... 

The last one spawned from Trinity Prime and he had absolutely no weaknesses at all. Had a lot of status resistances and immunity to fire.

[JoJo.Granum]

The other thing I'm finding is that the Kuva Lich is very very grindy.  I found it hard to mercy the thralls. And my first lich was just very strong. While it's good to change play style (I tend to be more control/support/healing, and not so much tank,  I was wondering if there was a way for it to be less grindy and time intensive? 

Let's be clear I love the story behind it, in fact I could probably expand on it a bit more especially for the use of the Kuva.. but less grind please? It's grindy enough 🙂 

 

[Amazerath]

Here's a breakdown of every step involved in killing a Kuva Lich along with opinions on the RNG and grind involved:

1) Grind for Void Traces (optional): RNG doesn't have a very strong presence here and it only dictates how many missions you'll have to repeat. The problem is that this is old content and it's also not particularly interesting. You're just repeating random missions over and over again and the amount of traces you get per mission ranges between "low" and "pathetic" (depending mostly on the mission type). It definitely feels like refining Requiem Relics should not even be a thing considering you're spending a very precious resource that you would usually only spend on acquiring new prime weapons/warframes.

2) Grind for Requiem Relics (mandatory): this is where RNG starts to have a stronger influence on things, since it dictates what type of relic you're getting (Kuva Flood) or your chance for getting a relic at all (Kuva Siphon and Thralls). It helps that there are only 4 relics but RNG can already cause some frustration here. I think adding Requiem mods to relics was a bad idea. It would be much better if the mods dropped from thralls directly. Again, these mods are not valuable enough to justify adding them to the same system that gives you prime weapons and warframes.

3) Grind for Requiem Mods (mandatory): RNG controls which mod you're getting, which can be a pain since you want three specific mods out of eight and they're all uncommon. So if you choose not to spend traces you're reducing your chances. It helps that you can open relics with other people but again, this is old content we've been doing for a really long time. And the time you spend fighting RNG is time you don't get to spend fighting the actual kuva lich, which is supposed to be the highlight of this new system. So some people will resort to trading as a solution, which is fine. But in my opinion that is just bypassing a piece of gameplay that is supposed to be fun. Between trading and fun gameplay I would prefer to have fun gameplay if possible, but RNG does make things difficult.

4) Kill the Lich: So, assuming you're not driven mad by all the RNG layers, you finally get to beat your kuva lich (I still haven't done this because I'm still stuck on step 3). And your reward is a weapon you may or may not be interested in using. I won't even mention the 'convert' option because I don't consider that to be a reward at all. And so, this leads us to step 5...

5) Grind for Liches with Weapons you're Actually Interested In Using (optional): And if you got to this step that basically means everything you've done above was a waste of your time and resources. It's the ultimate RNG perversion. It would be nice if after going through all the trouble described above I would at least get to choose which kuva weapon I get but RNG once again says "no".

 

So, my opinion is that in its current form this system is not worth my time or anyone else's. I'm going to finish my grind and kill my lich, but after that I probably won't bother to spawn another one. Because this game has more then enough RNG-based grind and the last thing I want is to dive into more of that nonsense. I thought the kuva liches were going to be something of an evolution of bosses. A system that would create more persistent and interesting boss-type enemies that would also be kind of unique to the player who created them. But what this system gave me is just more of the old RNG I've been dealing with for over six years. As a result I've seen more of my kuva lich in transmissions and menu screens then in actual combat. And I'm not a fan of that. Definitely not disco.

[Czin]

Today I got my first Larvling and the only other player in the match went and took the kill, so DE can we have people not steal your larvling from you?

[000l000]

1. Make all liches spawn in all missions. I got why it's not working that way (all players are supposed to play in their own infested system) but if i'm playing with a friend, my wife or a clan mate, not being able to kill their own lich in my system seems quite punishing and unrewarding to me. It's a coop game, make us progress together.

2. Current Lich mechanics is way too frustrating and based upon RNG. It's fun at first but gets old quite fast, especially once you get three Ogris in a row with less and less elemental damage percentage. Two important things should be considered then:

First, allow Kuva fusion with lower elemental damage versions, increasing its damage by a fixed amount (2% for example). Then if you're unlucky enough to never find a decent rolled weapon, you can at least increase it slowly by yourself with additional versions.

Second, and the most important part, get rid of this utterly frustrating "Oh crap, i got another uninteresting lich i'll have to spend hours to get rid of" event repetition. For now, not killing a Lich is pretty much worthless even if it's definitely part of the solution. Not killing a Lich should save a decent part of our already unlocked murmurs and thus helping with the next Lich - For now we don't have any option to not waste time with highly uninteresting liches and we're stuck with RNG only.

Saving a Lich is already consuming requiems for really few results, speeding up our next Lich would be way more rewarding instead.

[schottlander]

Is it just me or do all Kuva Liches look the same?
I dont want to sound racist but in the devstream we saw Liches with black armor, pale faces, robotic red eyes and a variety of armor and attachments.

All the Liches i had thus far had olive green armor, the exact same combination of 1 arm thin and one arm claw shaped.
The only differences i have observed on the liches so far are the voices (which are super cool) faces and maybe a big fish syandana.

Does DE have any plans to diversify the liches in the future?
Because when Empyrean comes out i totally want a badass Heavy gunner in sleek black armor for my ship crew.

Thats exactly the sort of thing i want to grind for.