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(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

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Most of weapon exilus mods are useless, we should be able use more mods on exilus slot like Speed Trigger,shred,rifle aptitude or some IPS damage mods.

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Converting a kuva lich should reward kuva, to 10k from a lich rank 1 up to 50k at max rank, converting is pretty useless, the lich most of the time doesnt help me in missions, so it could be a good alternative of the tiring kuva farming

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Besides missing rewards (only requiem relics right now) murmur farming missions should look different.

Where is all the Old Blood?

Maybe use the sortie radiation gfx effect, turn it into red and missions would look like Kuva Lich territory. 

 

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DEFILED (empty) Requiem mods should NOT count as "owned" when you open a relic and pick your reward.

I only had one defiled [VOME] with no charges left, but the game displayed vome as owned. I am glad I had it in mind that I need a new one.

TL/DR: Do not count defiled mods as "owned".

 

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They really shouldn't show up in Parazon mods list either, even if they could be grouped in with those mods in the Mods viewer. They basically just clutter the space.

 

I'll also repeat my suggestion that Defiled Req mods could be used to change Kuva Lich weapons to a desired one. That way they have more purpose than as scrap.

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can we please have some way of changing the weapon rewarded by a lich, or swapping liches with other players. or the weapons at least? Or better yet, not get duplicates over and over? 

I know the game is meant to be about grinding for stuff and RNG is essential to it, but there are three levels of RNG in this, and throwing in another seems excessive. At the very least, don't tell us what weapon we are going to get from killing the lich until we kill the lich. There is little motivation to go and grind for hours when you are just getting a worthless duplicate. 

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22 hours ago, Syln said:

About kuva weapons, forma dump and mastery : Rank above 30 shouldn't bestow any mastery it give a feeling of being forced to waste formas on weapons that i don't really care about even if i can transfer them to a better version, it doesn't really matter if i don't plan to use said weapon in the first place.

I think that is the whole point. waste platinum on formas to squeeze that little extra mastery out of it, and purchase more platinum. I am just not even going to bother with formaing them past what I would normally. its just not worth it for some of the weapons. 

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6 hours ago, TarekMansur said:

Most of weapon exilus mods are useless, we should be able use more mods on exilus slot like Speed Trigger,shred,rifle aptitude or some IPS damage mods.

 

I disagree. The point of Exilus for weapons is to have a space for upgrades that aren't DPS boosters. Speed Trigger and shred are attack speed increases, while rifle aptitude increases certain substats which can be used to upgrade DPS by the addition of more status procs. If Exilus was added to melee weapons, combo duration would have a similar problem.

I think our biggest issue here is that DE hasn't added "utilities" in ranged weapons for a long, long time

Most of the Exilus mods seem to be accuracy boosters or effects that change a function of the weapon.  Things that don't boost your ability to do more damage; but give you advantages in some areas. Mutation mods convert useless into useful ammo. Silencers make weapons silent. Others which are tied to specific weapon lines make the Ogris leave a cloud of burning debris, Drakgoon shells ricochet off walls, pentas explode on the ground. Ect. ect.  

I expect "weapon line" specific mods being way more prevalent and added to weapon Exilus mods. 
 

 

21 minutes ago, Temp950 said:

can we please have some way of changing the weapon rewarded by a lich, or swapping liches with other players. or the weapons at least? Or better yet, not get duplicates over and over? 

I know the game is meant to be about grinding for stuff and RNG is essential to it, but there are three levels of RNG in this, and throwing in another seems excessive. At the very least, don't tell us what weapon we are going to get from killing the lich until we kill the lich. There is little motivation to go and grind for hours when you are just getting a worthless duplicate. 

Trading is something that DE said they wanted to do; except I think it's basically useless to trade due to a single fact: You can only have 1 Lich at the same time. 
If you have an awful roll on a weapon, who is going to give you something you need? Someone still has to clear the bad lich.

Granted, I'd be able to love to trade any of my dozen karaks and brakks for kohm, I am not likely going to get the other weapons I desperately want.

 

I am of the opinion Liches should have multiple weapons equipped just to reduce the grind and give even bad liches something worthwhile to trade over. Kill a Lich, pick 1 weapon from its corpse.

Edited by Kalsarag

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First i thought: what a great update. Now i am not so sure.

I am at my eight lich, but only got four different weapons out of it. While this is fun, and the same could be said over hemorrhoids in the very same sentence. I think, i just did.

Why? Once the process is started, there is nothing you can do about it. You can NOT even ignore it, because they spread over the whole star chart, and taking their cut.

So i can not ignore it (they spread everywhere, not only 1 or two planets).

I can not sit this out (there is no expiration date, like a week or so).

I can not pay them off. Plat would be fine by me, but i guess the S#&$storm would be predictable. What about 1 mio credits or some sort sacrifice. Something you would do not that often, like a riven in that specific class or 1 statue. The number needed could be increasing, i dont care. There are many creative ways to solve this that way.

I can not change the outcome nor can i improve or influence the outcome which kuva weapon i will get (like you can do with the innate damage for example).

And that is tiresome, at least.

Edited by kazenioware

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I have been finding that these Kuva Liches are not so much Liches and more like vampires than anything. The fact they make thralls plays into this point and that they also drain resources nails this point home for me. There are a couple points I would like to make about them for feedback.

Freeing Sectors has no effect:

Currently if you do every node in a sector it forces the Lich to move to another. There is no recovery of resources or direct benefit of doing so. I think it would be better if after clearing the sector it would allow you to force an encounter with your Lich on the boss node of the sector. In addition, every hour or so the Lich's influence spreads over the node more depending on the Lich's rank. This gives the players a bit more of a chance to farm the current Murmur mechanic and prevent a certain level of grief when you simply don't want to kill your lich in the middle of a mission because you don't have enough information on the combination of what mods to use.

Lich Ranks have no effect:

Raising the Rank of a Lich gives the player no benefit. The benefits of the Lich are generated when the Lich is made. This makes more of a push towards ignoring the lich outright to prevent them from becoming too strong and annoying. What could be more of an incentive to kill the Lich during missions would be if each rank would also provide some power bonus to their Kuva Weapon and give an additional chance for them to gain the ephemera. Another interesting effect could be to provide a resource multiplier to the things that they steal and possibly even rare lich mods that are more powerful that the standard mods you acquire.

Liches are not Liches:

A lich in the more traditional sense is a spellcaster who obtained immortality by a ritual that binds their soul to a physical object known as a phylactery. The consequence in this is that if you destroyed a lich, but did not destroy their phylactery they would return.

Our Liches were Grineer that appeared to have potential that we killed and then were instilled with Kuva to bring them back to fight once more. I could accept that this was the reason why so many grineer bosses simply re-appear in the story after we have killed them. It would make more sense in my own mind that if we failed to get the correct set of Parazon Mod Order for the Requiem mods that the Lich dies, but then returns. I find it rather annoying that having the wrong combination simply kills you and wastes experience. 

I think it would be more fitting for the Liches in a couple of ways if you get the wrong combo:

They lock hands with you and like completely drain your energy in the sense that they're draining your power to become stronger and then leave. This would create a better connection to the Lich as it is directly gaining power from your failings.

They die from the parazon, but after the mission they get stronger. This would give more of a feeling of a lich coming back from the dead after being killed because its phylactery was not destroyed.

They break your warframe like they do currently, but simply put you into a downed state

Overall, I don't think the players should be punished so harshly for getting the wrong combination when fighting liches.

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Meleeing liches is actually very unadvised, unless you're using significantly tanky Warframe. Could there be some indicator (like increasingly glowing arms) before they grab you, knee your back, then yeet you? It would give very good incentive to time your block for a counter attack, or just block.

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A summary of the majority of the lich missions:


"Dude kill your freakin lich already"

Selfish player: "No I don't want it to level up!"


One player doesn't want to kill theirs for a variety of reasons, and blocks the other player's spawn chance, and leaves the thing stomping around, which is a tad frustrating on any mission with a defense-based objective. 


Never has the squad been able to convince the individual to kill it.  3 members of the squad stand around mowing the healthbar down, only to have it get up over and over.

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Tying mastery rank into 5 forma times 13 weapons when most, perhaps all of the weapons don't require it is a bad decision IMHO. Making the kuva weapons go to rank 40 after Forma 3 would be fine. 

There needs to be a way to cycle the lich's weapon. Once you get half or even less then half of kuva weapons you'll be facing diminishing returns and it will only make players dislike the lich system entirely. Until something is done about it I'm not going to do anything about my current lich that has what would be my 4th ogris, there's just no reward in getting a duplicate. 

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This is from a 100% solo player's perspective.

-Having played around with this a bit, I can say I am pretty happy with where things are. Some things could still use tweaking, though.

-The damage the Lich does on a grab is absurd. Especially on the Radiation Lich. Switch Teleport > Knockdown > Rush > Grab > heavy damage or death. Sometimes this is completely unavoidable and feels pretty cheap.

-The Lich is pretty tanky, even with damage they are weak to. This isn't a huge deal for me since it feels more challenging to take them down. But with the above problem, or similar, it can feel dreadful at times.

-I made this thread regarding base damage on Kuva Quartakk not matching. I want to make sure that is addressed and is fixed because that is not cool if the weapons vary in base damage as well as elemental.

-Sometimes the Lich would taunt a few times before showing up later in the level. I'm not sure if that's intended or a bug. The lines he spoke made no sense since he wasn't on the battlefield at that time.

-You must tie some lore up into these missions. They are devoid of all life. Mobile Defense: Lich is gathering data in the system to increase weapons acquisitions. Stop them! Survival: Must distract Lich's goons so the Tenno operative can steal necessary intelligence on Lich activity in the system. Anything is better than nothing. They aren't as much of a nemesis to us if there are no stakes and all they do is pilfer stuff from us here and there and ridicule us a bit.

-The Grineer turret guns do insane damage and they seem like they are everywhere. They also become hard to destroy at level 5 Lich levels. Very annoying.

-There is a button to check/change your Parazon mods from the Lich screen but there is no check Lich button from the Parazon mod screen. Seems only right that it should work the same both ways.

*****

Now for a multiplayer concern. I read a lot about people getting angry towards other players who won't engage their Lich in public games. I thought of a pretty good solution but I don't know if it's workable in game.

If a Lich spawns, and any player damages it in any way, an internal check is done. If this player is not the owner of the Lich, a timer starts. If the Lich's owner does not engage with their Lich within X time, the Lich will despawn. This check will reset periodically to prevent trolling. It can even be worked in thematically by having the Lich retreat and call the player a coward and how they wouldn't show themselves and how they had to have their friends do all their hard work for them.

This should allow for other player's to handle it for a while until it leaves and allows for other Liches to spawn in.

Obviously, this will never be a problem solo since the only person that can damage the Lich is the owner, so the check never registers any other player engagement.

Is this too complicated? I don't know, maybe.

Thanks for reading!

Edited by ArcKnight9202
Forgot something
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Hello !

In order to make it more fun, having a little more challenge but still keeping lichs farmable.
What about sharing theyr damages buff and resistances (nor weakness or invul) with grineer when they spawn?
Ehancing the difficulty of the mission when they are present, giving one more reason to kill them.

By the way, they are too stuck in one part of the map, they need to follow theyr target and chase them
Especially those nasty tenno coward 🙂

Could be a detail, but so funny, if the kind of grineer on the map depend of the element of host's lich.
Exemple: Eletric or magnet lich could have drekar faction.
Like the lich have a personal army from a specific grineer faction.

 

And also you can be lucky to have larveling on first attempt. But sometimes it can took a good hour.
Having a good spawn rate so we can hunt those larveling everywhere, and that the mission we choose can have an influence on the lich could be fun too. (appreance, character)

Just saying,

have a great day !

Edited by AnuKaneDai

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So, I've been playing Old blood and thinking about the Lich System.

This doesn't feel like a Nemesis system, well not completely. It kind of feels like the beginnings of a Nemesis system.

They said from the start when they were developing it, (Back when they were calling it Kingpin) that they were inspired by Shadows of Mordor.
Cool thats great, I love that game, still enjoy hoping on and assassinating orcs by the score from time to time.

but the Lich system feel like were only getting part of it, the orc murder part. but there missing the rest. Where's the infighting, wheres the power structure. how can I make mine more powerful by letting it kill other Liches.

SO this is what I feel should happen from here, Develop the system farther. half the challenge of the shadows of mordor nemesis system was getting the orcs you want, lets make it easier to kill and convert them but make more of them. one for each sector of the star map minus the void, but that's just because I think lore wise that doesn't work. have them vying for control power over the star map. and after X number of missions 2-3 Liches make a move (we don't need the cut scene like SOM) doing missions and killing thralls can give us hints as to what their up to who their going against and allow us to intervene.

another option, is let the liches escape al a stalker normally, and as we kill thralls, (maybe fewer of them per mission) we find their lair, and theirs a new mission type for a Liches Lair. and we don't kill them unless we kill them in their lair, or make it a sabotage mission and we have to destroy a Kuva phylactery.

then you have the power structure, the 4 or 5 overlords that have to keep control and keep everything in line, sometimes they murder the upstart punk, sometimes they get killed and the punk becomes overlord. then you have the Queens champion, leading them all and acts like another assassin appearing on maps or causing random chaos in mission.

I understand that this is taking the same system from Shadows of Mordor, and theirs a lot to implement here, but there's enough going on here that its something you can devote yourself to entirely or leave alone, and only experience when the system lich raids your mission.

This can even be expanded on to emulate Shadows of War, where the liches we convert can be set up to garrison sectors, holding off new liches from taking over, and removing the lich tax, or replacing the harvester by giving you free resources on a pay out rate, making you want a stronger lich so you don't lose your pay out because he died.

I get that this undertaking would be massive, the depth that goes into this system would be worth it.

TLDR; I don't feel like the Kuva lich system hit the mark, I feel like its missing the key points of the Nemesis system, and having them vie for power and watching the galaxy change for each player would give it a purpose rather than a rather long grind to just another weapon, this give you something to interact with and work towards and not just multiple levels of RNG and a depletable resource. for a weapon we may not even want or use, I know this TLDR sounds like I'm just complaining but I think offering ways to improve is better than just complaining,

P.S (Didn't see this post before reposting this here)

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About the Requiem Relics rewards : why is the Rare reward an Exilus Weapon Adapter Blueprint ?

- it doesn't seem lore related

- Exilus Weapon BPs are already available through syndicates (and that is good, it is consistent with warframe exilus BPs sold by Simaris and Theshin)

- it doesn't feel rewarding when farming for Requiem Mods : when you are lucky and get the rarest items, it is not what you are hoping for... in this case something you can get more easily through the syndicates... (it doesn't feel good when being lucky is bad)

 

Dreamy suggestion : put a combo of the two Requiem Mods as the rare reward of Requiem relics...

 

thanks for reading !

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Ok, so I've had some more time to play this update and post the hotfixes I'm actually pretty happy with where the Lich System is at the moment.  The spawning is entirely opt in so you can farm requiem relics ahead of time to make sure you're stocked up before triggering the lich.  The valence system means you can keep the top bonus for each weapon type.  The lich has stopped stealing my Requiem Relics.  Yeah, I'm pretty happy with where the liches are at the moment.

Oh, apart from one thing.  Please stop making new enemies status immune. There are really only two viable ways to build stuff in this game, one is for status and the other is for crit.  Making an enemy type completely immune to status effects means that basically anything I have modded for Condition Overload or to rely on status procs, such as slash/viral is completely and utterly useless.  I thought the point of the new enemies and systems was to give us more options not fewer?

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When are the duplicate Kuva weapons being fixed? I just got my second kuva lich, and got my second kuva ogris.  This sucks.

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I find it fascinating that people have done this more than once. Some posts I saw people had done it 15+ times.

Once was MORE than enough for me.

Tedious. Not fun. Not rewarding. Won't do it again. The weapon simply isn't a good enough reward for jumping through all the hoops. Infact, I'm pretty sure it's worse than what I had. 

 

I mean I'm as bored as the next guy with warframe but I'm not THIS bored. I can live with playing something else until another update.

This entire update is bad. I don't remember being this dissatisfied in a long time. Melee is gutted, the new "content" loop is about as disrespectful of our time as it can get.

I'm really starting to question the future if this is the type of crap we can look forward to. Egregious time sink and padding, untested, unfinished, paltry rewards, a goofy heavy attack shoe horned in, years of investment thrown out on builds and weapons.

This is the one of the worst instances of content recycling in the games history. People should ashamed of acting like this is somehow new. 

Old blood is pretty forgettable and all it does is highlight the lack of content by asking players to engage in content they already had and were bored of.

Edited by IIDMOII
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the liches whole farming ecosystem is way better than when its released,but way better than bad isnt saying much,but they're indeed moving in the right direction it seems,i just hope for the best

maybe add a side system similar to extractor where you can command your liches to fight in a node/mission for resource,but make them take a cut as their salary or something,and maybe later down the line they'll become powerful enuf to betray you,and they provide better reward if you take them down

parazon is used way too little outside of hacking/liches thing IMO,maybe integrate it more since its one of the main equipment,just feels weird not to use it that much,maybe add more mod slot for more utility 

kuva weapon is kinda fine,the 5 forma thing is tedious,and im confused lore wise.why a kuva weapon can rank up the same as a weapon that's made by the orokin scientist that made warframe from grounds up and presumably a whole lot more spesifically made to kill sentient,and most likely its one of the kind

also kuva weapon duplicate problem need to be addressed more


hate the new bundle(parazon essential mod bundle,kuva hunter bundle,and radiant requiem relic pack),just seems the worse of monetization is yet to come

Edited by danang5
adding to my feedback

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Another issue I found was in defence mode.  I was engaging in my lich in wave 4 (after helping someone with thier lich in wave 2-3) and I stabbed him twice.  

Before I could stab him again, the wave ended and the mission ended.  My teammates had cleared out all remaining enemies except the lich and mission ended automatically.  I wanted to stay, he only had a sliver of health, but had no choice but to leave.

The next wave should not start until the lich is defeated or leaves.  If mine spawned early, I would have beat him but someone else's did.  If his spawned in wave 2, wave 3 should not have started until he was dealt with.  

Alternately, I had another experience in defence where everyone came to fight lich and left the target undefended.  We lost when it blew up.  

Defence sucks because the lich stays between waves.  Make him behave like all enemies so we can clear level, deal with lich, then maybe get another spawn next wave.  

 

 

Edited by Educated_Beast

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So many duplicates .... im just dead inside... so many kuva liches i killed... i have more duplicates in the foundry then weapons...
i still need the other weapons like

Kohm
Ogris

Drakgoon
Kraken

Brakk

and i have now 9 duplicate weapons...
means i killed now 17 liches

Murmur Farming is anoy and takes often longer then trying relics by urself out ( Murmur should be faster ) 3-4 hours of farming for 1 lich with no brain...

also one suggested that the Larva should carry the weapon with what the Kuve Lich can Spawn this would fix the whole Duplicate issue

Then the Ephemera drop chance is to low... i know it can be spawned with the element but the % that the lich has is just not normal
i killed 14 liches with Toxin not even 1 Toxin Ephemera that means i spend somethink like 68 Hour's of brain dead grind for murmur for nothing

( I need to Work and i have a Family )

 

I mean the System is okay but it Takes tooooo looooong for just one lich with low chance of ephemera and random weapons...

just anoy and im allready burnet out of the whole kuva lich thing...

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I've played this game for nearly three years. And this new system was leading to be pretty exciting and fun. But it's so painful and draining. There's so much burnout happening for those committed to getting the weapons. 

 

You've got RNG on IF a larvae spawns. You've got RNG on if the relic drops. You've got RNG on what mods you have to use to kill them. You've got RNG on if you even get the mods to begin with. You've got RNG on getting the exact same kuva weapon five times in a row (Tactical Potato getting the archgun five times in a row). So much work for very little reward. And the proposed change is just as offensive "can't get the same weapon twice in a row" however I could get Seer, then the archgun, then seer again and then the archgun, creating a never ending loop. And then you have to kill 130 specific enemies to get ... Clues. 

 

This system has so much potential but it's honestly offensive on how much DE has made this a Pay2PotentiallyMaybePossiblyWin. 

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I was the one to mention the Larva having the weapon already. Makes sense to boost the weapon the Larva knows how to use then to give him a whole new one that's completely different.

 

Anyhow. Here's another idea.

 

Lich Options.

Lich only shows when you have all 3 words guessed: Yes/No

How much can your Lich steal: Some/All  (The Lich can steal some of all of your rewards, including Sortie) Our choice.

Lich will show up every Mission: Yes/No (No means he will just show up normally, unless the option above is set to Yes, then it will be grayed out)

 

Just a spot where players can choose a few things for themselves. Some people don't want to fight the lich, others like the challenge of a Boss raiding normal missions.

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