(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[Highlord83]

Until there's a way to flat out get rid of a kuva lich, I'm done playing. Done spending, too.

Grinding through whole levels of level 100+ enemies to grind thralls to grind relics to grind mods to grind the super-special order they need to be in to make some stupid, effectively invincible raid boss enemy finally go away so I can go back to actually having fun in and enjoying the game was a stupid idea that was implemented in an even more stupid and halfassed manner.

Show me where the fun in all this is supposed to be, DE.  I'll make it easy for you; In my case, there isn't any. Well done.

Oh, there's "more to come?"  Too goddamed bad. If a system isn't complete, don't release it.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Highlord83

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Making Requiem mods consumable just to push another method to get rivens and implement a farm for the pexilus adapter (seriously, Disruption is new. Why not put it in the Sedna ones drop tables) has just been a terrible idea. I’m already getting screwed over by the RNG to get the relics and when I finally get the one I need I still don’t get the requiem mod I need from it. All for a weapon that I don’t even want.

 And the fact that I know I have to repeat this grind later down the road to get back expended Requiem mods just makes this entire lich system one of the most unappealing grinds in the game. Simply put, I absolutely hate it.

Edited November 20, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[dyewithasmile]

i cant count the times ive had a radiation status effected team mate kill me thereby dismissing my lich... in a row... words do not convey the horror

[dyewithasmile]

in solo, the lich has only you to grab, resulting in too many grabs and stagger/knockdown. it is not balanced in solo... old blood is the best thing since second dream. i really like melee too.

[sitfesz]

To me the mercy kill animation speed is too slow now.
I play with primed fury and I thought that was the intended speed (+55%), which felt great, because it was dynamic and the transitions were quick and smooth.

Now it's a progress stopper and even a bigger pain to mercy kill with gauss.

Please increase mercy kill animation speed on thralls by 50%

[Semberas]

- Lich influenced survival missions should not be entered after 4 minutes. There must be a limit like any other missions. Its really annoying joining 1 min survivals over and over again.
- Please make a good search index for codex about liches. Finding a weapon, its status rates, converted or vanquished etc. is kinda pain after 50+ liches.
- Improve teamplay, anger doesnt increase at all when i join a friend if his influenced map isnt mine. Give us opportunity to kill liches and increase anger in non-influenced missions.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Semberas

[ferrezinhre]

Imo lich having 100% chance for quirk would be nice addition, would make each of them bit more unique. 

[MartinVole]

Problems Persist:
- Liches in teamplay is still not incentivized, as anyone in party defeating their lich will deny every one else thrall spawns. This works contrary to team play and in a way punishes everyone else for one player's success.

- Current system is very grindy and takes out the fun of it for the amount of time required to invest, locking you to a bad slot machine pull until cleared. The positive is that it doesn't cost plat to pull the lever, the downside is that you usually end up spending plat for someone else's good pull, otherwise you'd end up possibly spending an entire lifetime pulling the lever.

- Female Kuva Lich personality is... is... why isn't there a Kela De Thaym or Queens style personality type? I kinda figure ya'll wanted to avoid waifu Liches but didn't have to give all the fun chips to the males. D=

[AreeSoothsayer]

Lich Difficulty

Give the Liches a difficulty rating in the form of Stars.

0 Star: Won't show up, not even Larva

1 Star: Difficult but not so an MR 10 can't handle it themselves

2 Star: Stronger than 1 Star but weaker than 3 star

3 Star: Current difficulty running. Same max weaknesses, resistances and Immunities.

4 Star: More overall health. Can have only 2 weaknesses max, up to 5 resistances, only 1 immunity. 1-2s reduced cooldown on skills.

5 Star: Much more health. No weaknesses. Max of 6 resistances. 2 immunities. 1-2s reduced cooldowns. Can summon Kuva Guardians.

 

Those we want is easier can have it, those who want more challenging can also have it. To keep 1 star Lich hunters from accidently dropping into a 5 star make it so only those hunting the same Star # of Lich can join a map of that difficulty.

[Dyneomite]

I've posted this in a few of the patch notes threads, but figured "what the hell" and decided to post it here as well, though I am going to go a bit more into depth.

TEXT WALL WARNING

 

This update's theme is supposed to be about how Kuva changes and mutates things, or at least that's the feel I get from it. It changes the Lichs into what they are, it changes the requiem relics and mods into what they are. We however aren't allowed the opportunity to participate in this. Using Kuva in place of void traces to upgrade requiem relics would be much more fitting for the theme and would further enforce why we can only unlock them on the Kuva Fortress. Likewise we should be able to use Kuva to recharge requiem mods THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DEFILED. This would help alleviate the grind for the mods that people aren't liking, but also give use for the current system of defiled requiem mods.

TL:DR for sec 1:

• Let us use Kuva in place of void traces for requiem relics. They're Kuva influenced so it makes more sense.
• Let us use Kuva to recharge requiem mods that haven't been defiled to lessen the grind a bit (i.e. 10K Kuva per charge)

 

Next I'd like to touch on Kuva weapons. They're great and all, but the level of RNG, uselessness of lower bonus rolls and how often we get duplicates is a huge problem.

Lets talk about the duplicates first, it'll be the fastest. you folks at DE need to change whatever algorithm you have in place for determining what weapon a Lich gets. It should look at what weapons the player has already gotten and how many, using that as a main factor to generate the Lich's weapon. I've run 6 Lichs and gotten 3 Twin Stubbas. (All my Lichs were created before the back to back duplicate update)

From that, lets talk about the bonus %s. I have no problem with RNG on this, I do have a problem with having my lower % weapons being useless once I get a high % weapon. I know that Valence was added, but when my current Stubba has a 55% bonus, and the 2 in my foundry have under 35% that doesn't do me any good. It becomes very frustrating rolling a new Lich, having it roll a weapon you already have, and it being a lower % than your current one. It makes people not want to do the content, I know it's affected my desire to play, or at the least do the Lich content. Someone might argue to just convert the Lich instead then, which I would agree with if they were useful. I think everyone would agree that in its current form, the converted Lich option is gimmicky at best.

 

So how do we fix this? I rather like what I've come up with:

First weapons:

For this example we'll use a 35% heat Karak and a 25% heat Karak:

Lets say I have the 35% at rank 40 with a potato and the 25% is the new weapon

• Can only Valence weapons with the same element
• When doing Valence the higher % weapon will always be used as the base, even if its the new weapon (no change from what we have now)
• Still transfers your forma, potatos and ranks
• The lower % weapon applies ~10% of its value through Valence (eg: 25% adds 2.5%, so we end up with 37.5% total bonus)

This keeps DE's RNG and grind, and gives us a reason to care about dupe weapons. This will keep people playing the content for longer to max out the element on their weapons, while having visible progression. Especially if the max bonus were to be set to something like 90%.

 

Next converted Lichs:

Converting a Lich adds an infinite use spectre blueprint to your foundry, it would take 12 hours to build 1 spectre. THIS WOULD ACT JUST LIKE A NORMAL SPECTRE (save for the conversion lines). Add a new resource to Lichs and thralls that drops at ~50% chance that is needed to craft them, OR make it take Kuva. I feel doing both would be over the top, because we all know the Kuva cost would be high. Of course trading the Lich will remove it's BP from your foundry. If you really want to get picky with it, you could add something that makes us select which Lich is active, and if we've traded the Lich we had active we have to select a new one before using them.

 

In closing;

A large portion of the WF community has been unhappy with this update. This is both due to lack of transparency and what we've perceived as a lack of communication to our feedback and criticism. We all know it is your game, we know you want it to go in the direction you've all imagined it, But keep in mind this is a partnership. The players are the ones consuming the content and at the end of the day, spending money on it.

I'd love support or criticism on my ideas if anyone has any!

Edited November 20, 2019 by Dyneomite

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

@Dyneomite

Having requiem mods be rechargable by kuva would be great and still give incentive to play the kuva siphons more.

[Educated_Beast]

PROPOSAL:

Instead of a simple stat swap merging system, I recommend a progressive upgrade of kuva weapons using the foundary:

- Place primary weapon A (has catalyst, forma, and element X) in foundary with a relevant blueprint (maybe from tenno lab).

- Place duplicate weapon in second slot to be merged (can be any element but same weapon)

- Add kuva and maybe a Amber star, riven shard, or even Endo (it's how we merge mods)

- Receive a 1/4 bonus to weapon A based on stat bonus of Weapon B. 

 

EXAMPLE:

- Weapon-A is a 32% radiation kuva khom.  Weapon-B is a 48% heat kuva khom.  Weapon-A goes to primary slot (primary element) in foundary so weapon-B gets recycled, 48/4 = 12% bonus to weapon-A for a total of 44% radiation (32+12%).

- Alternately, the player could make weapon-B the primary element and place weapon-A in merge slot.  In above example, weapon-A is recycled for 32/4 = 8% bonus to weapon-B for a total of 52% heat (44+8%).

- All forma and catalyst would be merged regardless of merging weapon-A or -B so nothing lost leveling you weapon and still playing game.

 

Obviously there must be a cap to upgrages.  This could be adjusted per weapon, but for now, the 60% cap is sufficient.  The lucky player hits the cap quickly while those less fortunate may need to merge two or three duplicates for max power.  Now progression is possible within RNG system that awards players for thier time so getting a duplicate with a lower % bonus is not a slap in face.

 

OTHER THOUGHTS:

A stat swap (as mentioned by DE) does not address the following:

- What happens when you get a lower roll than existing weapon? 

The duplicate is garbage and time wasted.  Sure you can trade, but who wants a garbage roll kuva weapon?  It only helps so you can rank weapon for MR and if something better comes along, you don't lose forma invested.  If you could merge, trading is still possible since even a low roll has value and would allow progress.

- What happens for the same weapon but a different element? 

After farming lich I may get the desired element on weapon-A I wanted, but then swap elements on next lich for weapon-B to show up, but get weapon-A again.  Now I have same weapon with a different element and likely different bonus %.  The system I propose would allow a permanent element swap.  

Consider this, I do not get extra MR for leveling the same weapon with a new element so it is not treated like a new weapon.  Because of this, I should be able to upgrade/merge any duplicate weapon regardless of the bonus element.  Only the % bonus is important, the element chosen (for merging purposes) is irrelevant.  

The system I am proposing as feedback to DE addresses both concerns within the existing confines of the Foundary.  It would even be possible to have blueprints added to dojo that can be researched to perform this merging process.  

The new kuva room would be a perfect location for this research.  The blueprints for merging can be expensive to research, then consumable to "print". 

All of this extends the life of system since now I can farm to trade low rolls even if I have everything!

[Ahkilleez]

Just an idea here.  Not receiving a duplicate weapon twice in a row is a good step in the right direction, but how about not spawning a duplicate of anything that's equipped in your loadout when you generate a lich?  

For example, if I have a Chakkhurr, a Seer and a Shildeg equipped, none of those three weapons will be generated.  

This will allow for people to stop receiving so many unwanted duplicate weapons while at the same time leaving open the possibility for them to get the duplicates they do want by not equipping that weapon type when generating a lich.

[(XBOX)TooMad]

Oh dear god this doesn't even sound good on paper.  Do you guys even play your own game?  By you guys I don't mean the community reps who are paid to talk it up.  I mean someone with decision making money spending power.  Kill a larva on a planet, it harasses me on a planet until I do a RNG grindfest, then get an RNG goody.  Just no.  Sortie and done until this filth gets fixed. 

 

 

[_Connor]

I know many people have had it worse, but i've done 8 liches now and have 3 duplicates, even after the update to prevent consecutive duplicates, which does absolutely nothing. First 3 weapons were ogris, seer, kraken. Last three were seer, karak, kraken. In what #*!%ing universe is this a good idea? Does anybody at DE even listen to feedback? How did anybody think preventing consecutive duplicates was an appropriate solution to this tedium? 

[PY-R0]

1. Make an upgrade system to Kuva weapons, so lower bonus duplicates matter.

2. Reduce the grind for Murmurs by half.

3. Make more Lich behaviors. Right now we have 2 different types. And after playing a few, this gets boring fast. No one likes fighting the same boss over and over again. So make more personalities for Liches. 10 or even more, so we don't get same voice lines again in a while. They are so repetitive now, it makes the grind even a bigger "inconvenience".

[Aldain]

I think my only personal complaint still left with the system is the ridiculous auto-death after you've downed your Lich if you have the wrong combo.

That is just the one thing that makes me not want to bother, it feels like eating an omelet and biting into an eggshell.

[_Connor]

On 2019-11-21 at 12:45 PM, _Connor said:

I know many people have had it worse, but i've done 8 liches now and have 3 duplicates, even after the update to prevent consecutive duplicates, which does absolutely nothing. First 3 weapons were ogris, seer, kraken. Last three were seer, karak, kraken. In what #*!%ing universe is this a good idea? Does anybody at DE even listen to feedback? How did anybody think preventing consecutive duplicates was an appropriate solution to this tedium? 

10 liches now and 5 duplicates

#*!% this retarded dumpster fire of a system. I'm done. 

[YoshixInfinite]

I would like it if converted Kuva Lichs dropped a Blueprint of their weapon, as it is now it feels like a waste of time and effort to convert them when the reward for doing so is just them maybe showing up for a minute in battle.

This will still incentivize people to kill their Lich for the fully built weapon, without completely disallowing people who choose to convert them from obtaining any weapons whatsoever.

 

I'm 13 Lichs in (on my 14th as of writing this) and I've converted all of them, I just don't have it in me to kill any of them, and it feels like I'm being punished for befriending them.

 

If you did, Thank you for reading my feedback, whether it's applicable or not.

 

-YoshixInfinite

[Kaadu]

Could a Liches weaknesses, resistances and immunities be displayed on their health bar? Like how the sentients get little red icons over them.

[thesyndrome]

I just spawned a lich who had a LITERALLY identical weapon to my second to last lich (same gun, same element, same percentage), why do I not have an option to skip this? you are asking me to spend a few HOURS to farm murmurs and requiems, for a gun that I am INSTANTLY going to sell for a frankly pitiful amount of credits. I have a full time job, it's the most depressing thing in the world to come home expecting to have fun with a game, to be told that I have to actually waste my time for something that I don't want and have no choice about; if the argument comes up that I chose to convert the lich, yes, I did, because there are good guns hidden behind this system, and it's down to complete luck whether the game decides to give me what I want, or tell me to spend the next few nights after work, not having fun by grinding out this crap for something I have zero use for because I already have it

[z3us32610]

Please make either Kuva Disruption or Kuva Survival always available for Fissure Missions. I have a lot of fun in these specific missions doing a somewhat monotonous task of opening relics. It's nice to be able to open relics and farm Kuva at the same time, and these Fissure missions specifically have an endless spawn rate of enemies, which makes them more exciting. On top of that, they start at level 60-70 which is great.

When I read the patch notes stating that Fissure missions for every node in the Kuva Fortress would be available, I was hoping it meant we could play any node as a Fissure mission. But since that is not the case, it would make sense to have at least one endless mode and one shorter mode always available. Preferably, the endless mode would be a Kuva farm i.e. Disruption or Survival.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet: Kuva Liches with a Tonkor are far deadlier than most other variants. The Tonkor's explosion is practically a one-hit kill, and hard to avoid as the grenade itself is hard to see. This is kinda troubling as the fight automatically ends if you get downed.

Another minor issue: There is no way to despawn Liches aside from dying or killing them. Solo this is fine, but in a group this can be annoying as teammates will wait for you to mercy your lich before advancing. It'd be nice if they just fled after getting downed a few times without getting mercied.

[ledkit]

All my liches wear excal helmet no matter the progenitor.

[MobyTheDuck]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet: Kuva Liches with a Tonkor are far deadlier than most other variants. The Tonkor's explosion is practically a one-hit kill, and hard to avoid as the grenade itself is hard to see. This is kinda troubling as the fight automatically ends if you get downed.

I have found that the Tonkor Liches have the same annoying mechanic from the arbitration grineer grenades.

Doesnt matter if you have damage resistance or damage immunity, it just instakills you. Mine was a Rad Tonkor, so its not like it was bypassing shields, but it was also was bypassing Revenant's Mesmer Skin, that blocks everything. I wasnt dispelled, I know that much because I was paying attention to my stacks and they were still there until the point I just drop dead from a sudden explosion.