(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[diaversai]

Here's my feedback after killing the first lich.

1. They definitely shouldn't be able to steal requiem relics
2. I hate that you autodie if your code is incorrect.  
3. If you have the right word in the wrong slot, you still autodie. Should be a flee or something.
4. I think it's probably too many thralls for a murmur. I think I'd even be okay if they spawned less often and gave more progress, so it FEELS less grindy.
5. Mobs might scale too quickly. Level 5 lich had mobs at 120-130. I assume if you messed up a couple more times, they'd basically be unkillable. Scaling should probably be slower. Combined with autodie'ing for incorrect code ranking them up. It's really fast for them to level.
6. I don't like the idea of refarming the parazon mods. If you have to refarm them, what's even the point of anything else on those relics? If you want to hunt liches, you're just going to stockpile parazmod mods.

Possible bug is when I got the murmur completed it showed a name for a couple of seconds in the orbiter, but that name didn't match the known word in the parazon screen. Specifically, it said Xata, and my word was Fass, Ris, Jahu. I assume they should match up correctly. 

Edit: this was all negative. There are also positives.

1. I like the feel of hunting down liches.
2. The weapons seem cool.
3. It's a fun way to reuse areas.
4. Mercy kills are very cool animation. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by diaversai

[5H4DE]

I'm not touching the Lich farm until Requiem mods are either permanent or easy to farm, the current way of obtaining them is ridiculous and the option to pay a meager 800 plat for them is straight out insulting. Way to go to make us not want to engage in the content you've been supposedly working on for the past 2 years.

[SkgNovaLover]

Hi. I've a suggestion about Kuva Larvling. Althought a large part of players found Larvling easy, most of times at first attempt, .... the remaining people struggle hours to see him spawning in the mission.  

I did Adaro mission alone ( sedna, 20+, War within done ) multiple times. In that hour, a lot of clanmates had their liches and started to enjoy the new contents. And about me, still no results, I'm was still missing my lich cause Larvling doesn't spawn. I got messages from kuva guardians, and then nothing. This made me a little upset.

I respectefully ask:

this game is plenty of thing to farm, and this is an acceptable thing, but making unlucky people farming hours even to start Kuva Lich's adventure, is that a bit too much? 

What about a sort of beacon to make the kuva Larvling spawn for sure? Maybe a reward from harbiter of hexis, maybe a reward to buy with nightwaves creds, maybe a reward from symaris? Or maybe a special mission, something like the one at the end of Wolf of Saturn Six's story? 

Thank you to read my comment

Edited November 1, 2019 by SKULLGARTEN
Typo

[BethTheBean]

There's a number of things that can be approved, but I don't have the time to list them right now. So, I'll start with the elephant in the room .

 

I tired a Diss node, that was a survival mission.

Capped at 5:00 (counting backwards), I was able to kill about 5-10 hireling for "murmurs". As you can see from the last pic, I have little to show for it. 

Either drop the time limit on the endless missions, or drastically pump up the amount of "murmurs" we get from each hireling kill.

Thank you for your time.

[TheEternalJester]

Just as a statement to some people: If the Lich spawns in your mission, you can totally ignore them or beat them down and put them into heal mode. Thralls will continue to spawn with them in the field, and they wont prevent mission progress. Dont need to lose a revive by their hands at all unless you want to buff them up.

Edited November 1, 2019 by TheEternalJester

[Rieleniel]

My main feedback is about the map pings of Thralls and their general appearance.

• They appear on the minimap just like a Capture Targer marker. As a player who often uses the overlay map to navigate, this can be confusing, since the Capture Target can turn invisible, and the Thrall can teleport, for example. And they can spawn into the same rooms, as well. A different, maybe even differently colored HUD marker, or at least a different minimap marker could help clear this up.
• Their outline makes them look very similar to Synthesis Targets. That, combined with the yellow teleportation effect, can make it seem like a Synthesis Target is a Thrall. Again, some different effect and/or coloration could clear this up. Maybe some sort of kuva mist-like effect instead of the yellow flash, for example?

 

Another thing: My Lich used her version of Hallowed Ground and Miasma in a quick succession, causing an instant fail to my Defense mission. Maybe that should be a tad bit looked at, so I can fight the Lich before it all goes down in flames.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Rieleniel

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Requiem mods should not be consumed.

[Ulvra]

40 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Wait, why would that be X? Did they add yet another new keybind? I have my keys pretty severely rebound, so if you're using default binds then I don't know which buttons those refer to. Do I no longer perform executions with the melee key? What about ground executions? I guess if they moved the keys around, that would explain why I wasn't able to pull those off yesterday.

Ground finishers never had a prompt, so I'd wager they're still the same as they were before, as for the keybind, X correlates to the use keybind as opposed to the melee key. It would be nice to be able to bind finishers specifically so one can choose either or.

40 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Maybe I'm just dumb, but I don't quite follow here. They happen at random, but when doing what? Say I'm meleeing an enemy, and I have a random chance of "mercy-killing" them per melee strike, or will they light up with an execution prompt somehow? Why wasn't THAT in the patch notes?

I've only managed to have it happen once. I was practising my MR27 test and enemies were getting a bit up there, I plinked an enemy with my rifle, not worrying so much about being on point and they just so happen to be left with about 5% health, then went down on one knee with an aura and the parazon symbol over then, opening them up to a mercy kill.

Based on the amount of kills it seems that they need to be quite low on health, but not dead, whether it's at that point a random occurance or more reliable I've yet to be able to determine because of the lacking durability of enemies in most circumstances.

[Mayvus]

 

[Terrariapro8C]

Great update but needs work. (Apologies in advance for the bad English)

The Parazon is great. I like the swiftness of it and i love the animations they are great. The only problem i have with it is that on normal enemies it's useless because  they die before you can use it and the mods for the mercy kills aren't that great. Something like extra damage after a mercy kill or more armor/health would be nice.

The Kuva Liches are great but the grind is really bad and needs work. I'm Mr 27 almost 28 i have no problem with annoying grinds nidus/harrow/mesa etc. I have done the grind and i didn't complain but this relic system is really bad and RNG heavy and selling the solution isn't that great as well (Radiant Requiem pack).

My solution is Either make the requiem relics drop more and a lot more or make it so we can get requiem mods from other sources. I like Brozimes idea of getting a requiem mod after doing a kuva flood. Also make the requiem relic bundle be sold by the syndicates for a lot of standing.

The Requiem mod durability is bad i understand it because without it the requiem relics become useless but the awful grind for the relics doesn't send a good message.

either it needs to go or the awful grind at least one of the two gone would be nice.

That's my feedback. I love warframe and everybody behind it but nobody is perfect we all make mistakes so please consider this and many others feedback have a great Day/Night.

Edit-Make it so when you fail at killing the kuva liche you get a bonus towards the required requiem mods.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Terrariapro8C
Another idea

[Guest]

The Kuva Lich system is interesting but it's a tad too grindy in its current state. Proposed changes:

- Make Requiem relics drop in Kuva Fortress missions, replacing regular relics

- Make Murmur gathering much faster, but instead of revealing one of the needed mods, it would reveal a mod that's not part of the combination

- When failing to attack a Lich with Parazon in the first phase of the fight, there should be an indicator if at least one of the equipped mods was correct (not telling which one and whether it was on the correct slot)

Also, apparently they can steal Sortie rewards too if the final mission happens to be in a node controlled by them. I guess (or at least hope) this is not intended behavior.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Guest

[Tonberryc]

Deleted post - accidentally posted to the wrong forum.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Tonberryc
Deleted

[bl1te]

First of all, it's a bit hard for me to explain in English, so excuse me. And I hope you'll understand me 😄

I'm playing the game all day and can't go away from PC! This update is just the best I've ever seen, IMO! Really, veeeery well done! Big thanks!

However, nothing is ideal:

1. Make Liches do not steal Void Traces and Requem Relics. Possibly something else important, haven't experienced yet.

The grind maybe tedious for some, but at least this day I've enjoyed all the time I played!.. BUUUT it makes no sense that, for example:

• I need Requiem I Relic to progress. I go farm Kuva Flood and this relic drops... and Lich steals it. What if RNGesus blesses me too good, so Lich will steal ALL relics that are requiered to kill him? How will I kill him then?

• I want to refine my relic so I will have better chances on obtaining the "key-word" I want, but Lich steals Void Traces. Now that's what makes the grind really frustrating. Please, address this issue.

2. When you are close to discover new "key-word" by gathering requiem whispers and start a new mission, you will do it by killing one of the first Thralls you encounter. But then you're "stuck" in completing the mission and fighting Thralls for no reward. I mean, make it so when you fullfill one whisper during the mission, then another starts gathering with next Thralls in this same mission.

3. Meleeing Kuva Lich seems broken right now, because his grab attack is not really noticable, and squishy frames just insta-die. I suggest making some kind of visual flash or sound which warns you about Lich starting his grab attack, so the player will have time to dodge.

Edit: I've managed to try to dodge his grab. So, he raised his hands up, I moved away for like 5 meters, but he still grabbed me.

4. This new status of floating enemies in the air. Sometimes it happends that they continue to float after being killed.

Edited November 2, 2019 by bl1te
Edit

[Rogunz]

Just telling people that the first mod they got in the sequence that is wrong isn't a puzzle. From everything you said before release it sounded like figuring out the codes would work like mastermind, you'd try mods on a lich and it would tell you if you got one correct and if you had any mods that were in the wrong position. You could then use this knowledge to figure out which mods you needed.

It turns out that all you can do is guess which 1/8 mods are correct so you can guess which 1/7 and 1/6 you need. If you get the clues you just guess which 1/3 and 1/2 you need. If you only know one mod from the sequence then you just use that mod as your first guess on every step.

That isn't a puzzle, it's just another layer of grind that requires no thinking.

[TheSteelRat]

To kill a Kuca Lich to prevent them from stealing my stuff I need a Phrase found in a Reqiuem Relic, doing a Kuva flood, will get me a requiem Relic.

unless it is stolen by the Lich.

this is unacceptable

[ebrl]

Still haven't played too much after the update, so I just wanted to give some feedback on the feedback. It looks like some people refuse to understand that DE is first and foremost running a business, and that 1. massive grind requirements that nudge you towards bypassing it with plat (especially if you already have everything else, so you're kind of stuck grinding one specific new thing) are their bread and butter, and 2. asking for more/better kuva rewards is never going to work, especially not kuva rewards that you'd get while grinding towards something else, in the same way that getting something else of notice while grinding kuva is probably not anywhere near being considered. Would I want it another way as a player? Yeah, sure. Would I do it differently in their place? Probably not.

 

edit: having said that yeah having the requiem relics stolen looks pretty bullS#&$

Edited November 1, 2019 by ebrl

[QuickSpy]

(Not gonna talk about most of my issues with the kuva lich system as they've been talked about to death on this thread)

With the kuva lich system, I was hoping for more of a rivalry where you got to know your personal enemy more and got to actually see their growth and their destruction by your hand. Rather than doing menial tasks and killing thralls (Not even lieutenants or anybody important to your lich, ie just an average butcher. But on that point we don't really know what thralls are or how they fit into the "lore" of kuva liches) an example would be say destroying resource depots, or systematically destroying their hierarchy of leadership as they are afforded more power by the queens, instead of doing a spy mission on a corpus ship against frontier grineer on Neptune (More on this, I would've liked it if the liches stayed on grineer occupied worlds, rather than corpus ones but this should be the case once corpus kingpins are a thing) (I would also like to see the liches get their own battalion of grineer troops with their own colors or armor, as getting arid grineer on Pluto makes little sense, more on that point, I think a custom economy specifically for your lich would be cool, as in troop numbers, resource statistics, etc of the liches' power, and allow us to actually see our impact on the enemies we face). I hope and expect this system will evolve exponentially over time, especially with the addition of Empyrean, and I suspect this is a very very bare bones version of what they want to achieve, but they felt they had to release something to quell the content drought.

Just a bit of brainstorming while writing, but this is what I think could help Warframe's longevity.

 

Also could we get the option to link our kuva liches in chat?

 

Edit:

I understand that there needs to be a system like this that can be done fast and many times over, but I feel a true nemesis system where your nemesis has time to actually become a memorable enemy would be nice. Rather than meeting and killing your lich over the course of 4-5 hours, I'd personally like it to be more in the weeks - months span. You could have it be where the liches have lieutenants / commanders that drop the kuva weapons and rewards we want now, 4-5 hours each, farm-able. And the lich could act as a true kingpin that remains at the top of the list, until after possible months of fighting their forces, you finally get to put them down personally (This is where capital ships and naval command comes in, as the lich just showing up in mission is kinda underwhelming) 

As far as an actual record of your accomplishments, there could be a folder in the codex for each lich, that expands and shows all of the followers of said lich you took down in your conquest.

Edited November 1, 2019 by QuickSpy
Adding a bit to my post

[Jangkrik]

17 hours ago, Knicklichtjedi said:

I started playing the update and I have some really important feedback.

Please remove the ability to buy all the new Requiem Mods with one purchase of a bundle. Even if its >800 Platinum, that is a really bad decision in my opinion.
The amount of work you need to get all Requiem mods is immens and a fast-skip for all that grind seems unfair to everyone that doesnt want to pay that price.
The relic packs are kinda fine, because its only 4 relics and you still rely on RNG to get the exact mod you want, but if you can buy relic packs over and over that is a bit wrong as well. Requiem mods should feel like a lot of work, because they give you access to powerfull Kuva weapons and the bundle allows to skip that entire aquisition process.

Ive been farming for a few hours now and I got only one mod and it might take me at least a week now to complete the entire collection.
So please, please remove at least the mods from the bundle as soon as possible!

Actually, no. Requiem mods aren't supposed to be difficult to get (without considering 100 void traces).

The issue is, floods are currently bugged and do not guarantee relics, hence making the difficulty to get requiem mods way higher & more tedious due to how rare floods are.

Hence, it's not really worth it to spend 800p for the mods alone. The real gems are the palettes.

[-Jes-]

TRIPLE MURMUR RATE. End of.

Make the 'backbreaking' instant death ONLY apply if you try to bruteforce the wrong mod a second time same match.

Make Requiem relics unstealable.

 

Congratulations, you just made a currently horse -censor? how weak- grind hell system into a playable one.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by -Jes-
Grow a spine DE

[Oreades]

Whelp I just finished the last node to clear the Litch off of Earth, 

Spent five rounds of defense with the Lich spawning in the first round..... did I even attempt to kill her? NOPE! I mean I did down her a lot because she was in the way but knowing that the system is set up to punish me for interacting with it.... I simply don't. 

I believe the adage is, Fool me once.

Because what would have happened had I fallen for that execution prompt a second time is that I would have been the one to die since I don't have enough scooby doo points to know the kill phrase and the ketchup stain on my starchart would have gotten worse. 

Why would I interact with a system that punishes me for interacting with it in the way it is intended?

[twelvefold]

Yeah, I agree with the general sentiment. The grind is real bad on this one. Doing what 80+? regular missions to get the murmurs, 20+? kuva floods to get the relics, 20+ relic missions to pop the relics, and then 3-6 tries to to guess the order, but to guess the order one has to annoy the lich which I guess takes another 3-4 missions per try.

 

I'll probably have to trade for the mods.. and I usually close the game when I have to open trade chat.

I'd rather have the Corpus 5 star #*!% you difficulty than straining my patience.

Edited November 1, 2019 by twelvefold

[DageWasTaken]

The idea of Kuva Liches is great, but the execution, not so much.

It's definitely inspired by the Shadow of Mordor games, but lacks the essentials.

Proposed Quality of Life Changes:

1) Thralls shouldn't just be pseudo-random spawns that, when killed, fills up a meter. They should be targets. Instead of just random guys in a game, make them spawn anytime on Grineer tiles, but make them essentially like "Capture Targets" on Capture missions. They have intel, we want it. We already have this game mode.That being said, hunting 50 of them isn'f fun. A couple is enough.

1.1) A fun interaction is deciding what to do with the Thralls. Make us have a choice to either kill them and gain intel through the Parazon (instead of insta-killing Liches, the Parazon can be modded to gain specific intel from Thralls) OR let them flee and follow them to other places on the Star Chart that would lead to more clues to the Lich's weakness OR Kill them without the Parazon, sending a message to the Lich as a challenge.

2) The approach on Liches isn't appealing. I imagined we could fight them *our* way, but all we can do is keep GRINDING Thralls and play hookey with the Lich. I'm pretty sure Trial and Error of Parazon mods is an oversight and isn't how Liches are supposed to be defeated (Banging your head against the wall until it breaks). The best solution I can think of is to have different ways to defeat the Lich:

• No Intel - Head to Head battles: The Lich, without being weakened or killed by the Parazon due to the lack of intel, you just have to fight him at full strength (The best way to bring them out is to again, kill their Thralls without the Parazon to send them a message). If he defeats you, he levels up, if he loses he retreats and is weakened. The Lich's behavior will be fleeing. So what do you want from Thralls? Intel on his location. What could be the best way to find his location? Let Thralls flee? Parazon Thralls for Intel? The choice is there.
• Heavy Intel - Assassination: Complete opposite of the first way to dispose of them, gathering heavy intel on the Lich to figure out exactly what their weakness is and how to kill them in the most efficient manner. The behavior of the Lich won't be passive. He'll not be fleeing or battle hungry like fighting him head to head, but instead he'll be cautious of you. He'll send death squads to take you down, he'll issue surprise attacks, and he'll give you false information through his thralls. You'll have to gather Intel without him knowing; either through stealth and destroy all witnesses. It's a cat and mouse instead of a dogfight.
• Weakening their hold - Taking caches: Now this way isn't necessarily a way to defeat the Lich, but weaken their hold on their respective areas. Go on special missions to eliminate their thralls and soldiers. Raid their caches to get the things they stole from you and then some. It's not necessarily a way to kill the Lich, but instead, it allows you to further amplify the previous two: fewer places to hide or gather more important non-Thrall related intel.

3) Liches shouldn't be able to steal important loot such as Rivens or Relics.

[Avenaki]

I don't think I've ever posted before, but this is irritating. I really hate that I currently feel forced to farm requiem crap when I want to to do other things, because I'm already SICK of mods and resources being stolen from me. The percentage of resources being stolen is irrelevant, it sucks. Them being able to take just about anything they want is a major downside.

Reading the other responses made here just reinforces my feelings on disliking this. I just want to kill mine and do my best to not spawn another one until I want to farm lichs. It would probably be less of an issue if this is what I wanted to do but right now I feel like avoiding them entirely.

[Taiki696]

Adding what probably 20 other players have already written down:

The sheer amount of thrall kills needed to get the murmurs to be able to take on your Lich is simply insane. I was able to take out I think 5 thralls in one mission, and based on how much the circle filled up on the first murmur my guess is at least 60 thralls / murmur. Make that 6 and about 95% of players will shut up about it.

The amount of RNG and farming related to getting requiem mods is just too high to make them consumable. Either make them permanent OR severely reduce the RNG/grind factor in getting them.

Simply because this way it takes way too much time to learn what mods you need, then acquire them, and half that playtime is practically wasted when those 3 mod cards are destroyed if you equip them in the wrong order when you finally manage to confront your Lich.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Taiki696

[DesertEagle1280]

Honestly, at this point, I'm getting a sinking feeling. I was very hyped about this update, I was extremely looking forward to Liches.  I think the idea of having to code out the kill was great, and very compelling.  But I figured the "grind" would be in the order part, not the murmer part as it's come to be called, not the rng part. .

As we learned more, the whole consumable mods issue, the relic grind for said consumables, the RNGeezus factor applied exponentially, the exploitative feel of the way the update was monetized (see my post in the below thread for context)... It's really leaving a bad taste in my mouth.  All week I actually could think of almost nothing but enjoying WF this weekend, knocking out liches and enjoying the game with my small group of friends.  Now, I'm really not sure how much I may play.  Some, no doubt.  I agreed to be 1/3 of a grendal keyshare with them (although that was also before we knew about those missions, not sure how they feel now), but I really feel like this update had the most potential of 2019, but also missed the mark the most.  I hate saying that, I know the devs who burned so much oil getting the update out may be devastated by the community reaction, but...  It hurts me as much as it hurts them to say it.

It feels as though more than ever, they've gone out of their way to actively push people toward the market as the only realistic choice, instead of it just being a "optional skip grind" for people, then on top of that, packaged the market items in such as way to intentionally bilk more plat by limiting the options.  In a deluxe, you can usually buy just the skin, just armor, just weapon, etc or the whole kit n kaboodle.  The lich hunter pack or whatever, it's buy it all even if you don't want it, or don't buy it and rng till you die. No "just mods", "just armor", "Just palettes"