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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

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This system has potential. There are some good points, but this is the internet, so I'm going to focus on the negatives.¬†ūüėč

- I just need to get this off my chest. I hate the word "Murmur" like some people hate the word "Moist". DE is incredibly creative and comes up with off the wall names for some of the things in their universe. Kavats, Endo, Syandana, Kuva. or Lex is just Lex, but a pair of them...Aklex!!! Is "Murmur" really the best we could do here?

- The unifying theme of this whole new system is Kuva so the following things just get to me:

  • Kuva Larvlings spawn in¬†any¬†level 20+ Grineer star chart mission but we all know what is going to happen. If you want to initiate a Kuva Lich, go run Adaro, and it's a done deal. Why is this not tied to the Kuva Fortress, Siphons, or Floods. The War Within is the prerequisite to the Kuva Lich System. It's where we're introduced to Kuva, The Kuva Fortress, The Queens, etc. If you can't complete Dekata solo, your gonna have a bad time with this content. So why not make the Kuva Fortress the barrier of entry.
  • The new T5 Relics seem like an unnecessary new item / mechanic / RNG Layer for farming Requiem Mods. They just don't¬†fit thematically imo. We already have Kuva Siphons and¬†Kuva Guardians, why can't they drop Requiem Mods?¬†Siphons / Floods need some love anyways to make them worth doing so have the¬†two systems¬†have a little overlap.¬†The Kuva Liches themselves could have a chance to drop them on a failed attempt or even the Eximus Kuva Thralls. They could all drop these mods or at least have a chance to.¬†Lets¬†just use whats already in game and ditch one¬†extra level of RNG. If DE is worried this will put too many mods in the hands of players too easily then make them single use and have them be consumed even on failed attempts to shiv your Kuva Lich. They could also come up with more goofy symbols to dilute the pool a bit more.
  • When I finally nail my Lich with the proper Requiems I want to watch the Kuva Clouds leak out as they beg for mercy and those Kuva Clouds need to land in my Inventory.

- The "Meat Head" personality type is obnoxious. Between Ordis and every NPC on Fortuna, I think we have the comic relief and cartoonish characters covered. Can we just not? 

- I see a lot of grumbling about "the murmur grind". This is amusing because as far a I can tell, a turbo nerd can complete an entire Kuva Lich cycle in a day. Someone that might squeeze in an hour or two in the evenings or a straight up Weekend Warrior could probably knock one out in a week/weekend. If anything, DE needs to slow this whole thing way down. The Lich system was sold as a long term adversary. By the time Empyrean has been completely rolled out everyone is going to have most the Kuva weapons and the Try Hards / Whales will have the all the weapons with the best rolls and best Rivens too. Then we'll have to listen to cries of, "muh content.", a couple weeks after Empyrean launches. 

- Related to slowing things down. The Kuva Lich spreads out way too fast, offering up a plethora of nodes with which to farm "murmurs". Why not tie it to the Kuva Fortress and it's affected planets? Once you clear all the nodes and run all the siphons and floods, you're limited to the Fortress itself until it moves again. Once Empyrean is rolled out then your Lich can hop in their capital ship and finally un-tether from the Fortress.

- What is the point of "killing" my Lich before I have all the Requiems? By the time I get all my requiems sorted and in the right order my Kuva Lich is a bullet sponge, and in exchange for what? My "murmur" progress filled up a little faster and I got a little extra Kuva? If this leveling up process is going to be a thing, I need a better reason to do it. Like an extra percent, per level, to the damage modifier on my Kuva Weapon so even a poor roll gets a 5% increase if I decide to take on the extra burden. Otherwise, I'll just grind "murmurs" solo and avoid my Lich when he spawns. When I finally have all the Requiems...I'll smash my Level 1 Lich like a trash mob.

- The new Parazon Finishers and animations are pretty cool but when I Parazon a Kuva Thrall I want to stab them right in the dome and imagine my space ninja magic is extracting the information I need right out of their Frontal Lobe. *See my first point and change "Requiem Murmur" to "Requiem Cerebral Trace". 

- I have no idea what determines the level of enemies I'm going to encounter during a Kuva Lich Mission. I entered a mission with a host that apparently had a much higher level Lich than my own. I was expecting level 60-70 enemies and was met with level 100-110 enemies.

- This new content needs an associated quest to walk you through your first Lich. I was doing an Excavation with a level 1 Lich and associated enemies and super low MR player spawned in and immediately brought in their level 5 Lich. Neither of us were equipped for it and it promptly wrecked our excavator. I left to spawn the next excavator and the poor dude stayed behind to keep fighting their Lich. They promptly blew through all their revives and left the mission. That must have been very frustrating for them.

Like I said, this new system has a ton of potential. DE just needs to iterate on it quite a bit before the full Empyrean roll out goes live. There is a huge gap between what was depicted at Tennocon and what was delivered with "The Old Blood". But then there is also the possibility that "The Old Blood" is the way it is because they wanted to beta test it a bit before merging it with Empyrean. 

My two cents. 

 

 

 

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You guys later made Valence Transfer, which is an acceptable method of dealing with duplicates. No, it did not solve the actual problem. We are still getting weapons of with the lowest bonus of 25% when there is the possibility of the max bonus of 60%. Do you know how large the 25%-60% range is? Getting anything less than 45% is basically a giant waste of my time because I am just grinding without getting anything out of the entire process and it's not fun.

No one is gonna use Valence Transfer if all they got was 25% bonus 99% of the time because trash is still trash no matter how many times you overwrite it. Do you know how depressing it is to get a lich with lowest bonus that you don't want and that lich doesn't even have ephemera? It's like someone purposefully feeding you feces.

How about give us an upgrade system call Valence Upgrade?

  • Let us feed those duplicated trash weapons to our kuva weapon to increase its bonus at a FIXED rate. That way we don't feel like grinding for trash and instead, we collecting¬†materials to make our bad kuva weapon stronger gradually.

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Why would you choose the highest level Exterminate when you could choose a low level Capture? 

Adaro is the only node I've found that will 100% give me a Kuva Larvaling, without fail.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

I can say the same about Cassini. 

I'll give it a whirl. Thanks.

My point remains the same though. Why bother making Larvlings spawn in all those systems when there will inevitably be only one "best" system that everyone uses. If DE is going to insert this content behind The War Within, then slap those little suckers on the Kuva Fortress and have Thralls and Liches and Requiem mods revolve around Kuva and the Kuva Fortress related content so it at least fits thematically. When Empyrean comes and Kuva Liches have Capital Ships then they can expand their reach. As it stands, I just have red JELL-O randomly spreading across my map because "living world".

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4 hours ago, Raso719 said:

I think it would be swell if you could make your Litch go away without having to kill yourself in a failed assassination attempt.

In a recent update they added the ability to chase the Lich away without testing your requiem password (ergo without getting killed).

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I'm sure it was said earlier in this thread somewhere, but reading up on this system (as I can't play it myself yet), I feel like this would have made more sense for fighting some kind of Corpus super-proxy instead of Grineer Kuva Liches. Extracting fragments of a password or algorithm to destroy or subvert a powerful enemy to your side via a high-tech magic space ninja hacking tool? Sounds more like something you should be doing to Corpus robots instead of Grineer troopers' brains. I'm half-expecting the system to be essentially copy-pasted over to a Corpus equivalent if they're ever created (which I hope they are because I like the Corpus aesthetic more than the Grineer). There's even a precedent for it in how the Corpus boss proxies upgrade and advance from the Jackal to the Raptors, Hyenas, and the Ambulas. If Grineer can adapt to Tenno and grow stronger via Kuva magic, I think Corpus can do the same via their own unique method: throwing excessive amounts of money and technology at a problem.

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can we remove the mercy kill from the kuva larve it break the lore and makes the grineer look pathetic as their only enemy that can fight toe to toe with the tenno is only  created if the tenno wants making the grineer the weakest faction on the entire game 

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On 2019-12-02 at 12:44 PM, Renarde-Louve said:

Farming murmurs takes way too long.

when it was first released it was 50/50/50. people were saying it was too long, than they changed it to 40/40/70, it was oksish to me.

But then they changed it again to 36/40/84...Thanks DE, now it take forever.

I mean, on my last lich the mod which was going 1st in my order was the last to be revealed.
By the time the mod was finally shown, I tried 6 out of 8. 2 of them were the 2 mods murmurs revealed.

In short when the last mod was unlocked I had only 2 mod left to try.

 

I just dont see the point of reveling me the last mod when I had only 2 remaining mods to try.

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"the mod which was going 1st in my order was the last to be revealed", I can relate to ur saying, still 1 more try to see if the 2 latter mods are correct, hope it will be wrong to make me really frustrated ūü§§ my third lich in a row like this, now i feel like i will abandon this system after 31 lich so far. I thought i were gonna like this system for a long time, but finally the trauma is kicking in. Starting to feel the grind is TOO long, so many layers of RNG, 10 more lich in a row with nothing good, and the time invested added to nothing, think i would like a system with adding point according to time invested rather than just pure RNG.

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Too much murmur grind. It's demoralizing and it's somehow spoiling the rest of the game for me. Can we have a couple thralls spawn in other missions like fissures and sorties? Please. It would give a sense of progress while doing other stuff I like. Also, guaranteed Lich spawns after you get 2/3 requiems? Maybe have the lich invade other missions like the Stalker does? A 1% chance is enough to make them seem like a looming threat.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

can we remove the mercy kill from the kuva larve it break the lore and makes the grineer look pathetic as their only enemy that can fight toe to toe with the tenno is only  created if the tenno wants making the grineer the weakest faction on the entire game 

I'd rather the "Larvling" be an elite eximus unit on the Kuva Fortress, already strong and blessed with Kuva to kill Tenno. They fail, we stab them, they get reborn as our personal lich.

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13 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Too much murmur grind. It's demoralizing and it's somehow spoiling the rest of the game for me. Can we have a couple thralls spawn in other missions like fissures and sorties? Please. It would give a sense of progress while doing other stuff I like. Also, guaranteed Lich spawns after you get 2/3 requiems? Maybe have the lich invade other missions like the Stalker does? A 1% chance is enough to make them seem like a looming threat.

isn't supposed to you stab the lich until you can cipher the code to kill like mastermind and the murmurs are just hints for lazy people 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

isn't supposed to you stab the lich until you can cipher the code to kill like mastermind and the murmurs are just hints for lazy people 

Lich doesn't spawn enough for that. First few stabs, their anger resets, and you find the first 2 symbols before getting lucky with stabbing anyway. Blindly guessing, you have to stab them up to 19 times.

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20 hours ago, thurmack said:

In a recent update they added the ability to chase the Lich away without testing your requiem password (ergo without getting killed).

Oh that's great! I had no idea. Which patch? I wanna check to notes to see how. 

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2 hours ago, Raso719 said:

Oh that's great! I had no idea. Which patch? I wanna check to notes to see how. 

if I read it correctly you just blast them repeatedly into the near-death state until they get bored and decide to leave.

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2 hours ago, Raso719 said:

Oh that's great! I had no idea. Which patch? I wanna check to notes to see how. 

26.1:
"Liches now run away (but don’t rank up) if you’ve downed them 3 times, but don’t use your Parazon on them. This allows you to overpower your Lich and have it flee, instead of having the only way to remove it from a Mission be your failure to know a Requiem. "

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Too much mumurs needed when you know by enought try and fail, what mod you will need BEfore they show it to you. here, the second mod needed is the khra

sorry double post, it messed up when I tried top edit my post lol

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For me these are the main issues:

  • Assuming the target player is high mr with nothing left to do but honestly there are just too many layers of grind and rng for the end reward imo (I'm mr27)....
  • Grind does not make something difficult or a challenge, it just makes it time consuming, which is not fun.¬†
  • Would prefer a change to the farming for relics.... 100% chance for a relic on non flood, flood gives a requiem mod.¬† It's not like we can keep farming the same mission because of the once then cooldown mechanic on kuva missions.
  • Honestly the entire lich system doesn't seem interesting and its far too repetitive, there is literally no difference between how you do your first lich or your last lich.
  • Requiem mods need more than 3 charges, personally I think a minimum of 10, ideally no charges so they don't expire.¬† Their drop rates might need tweaking too.
  • I honestly feel the requiem relic rewards are pretty poor.... riven shards are only useful if you have riven slots left (target player likely has full or is close to riven capacity), amber stars and kuva are meh considering we're basically farming kuva to get the relics in the first place.¬† I can grab a weapon exilus adapter bp every 3 days without even trying from syndicates.¬†
  • Murmors - either needs higher spawn rates or reducing in amounts needed.¬† Kill animation is kind of annoying after a¬† while.
  • Lich - seems balanced in teams but a little off balance for solo imo.¬† Would also like less slam attacks and/or the ability to stagger the lich.... also basically feels like I'm fighting the early version of the wolf, so maybe look at the feedback from that too.
  • Not sure if it's a bug but my liches don't seem to get any extra damage from the element they're weak to.... if they were it was so tiny it wasn't worth building for.
  • Lich could do with more personalities...
  • Ephemera needs a higher drop chance.
  • Trading liches is good, however this is only useful if you can trade your lich.¬† If you don't have a desirable element or stat it's unlikely someone will trade for you lich.¬† So we need a way to 'dispose' of our lich as well, give it a high cost or cooldown so it's not abused.¬†

 

Kuva Weapons:

  • I hate the necessity to use 5 forma to get max xp from weapon, if all I want to do is use the weapon for mr because I don't like it I'm literally throwing forma in the bin.¬† This honestly feels like it's been done to sell forma, not to actually improve the game/weapon.
  • I don't like the rng on the stats (pretty sure others are the same).¬†
  • I would personally have preferred an 'arcane' for existing weapons which gave the buffs over new versions of the weapons but I doubt this will happen.
  • I honestly don't feel the weapon as a reward is worth the amount of grind you've attached to it and buffing the weapon won't be a fix for that imo.

I would like the kuva weapons changed to the following.

  • xp only available from rank 0 to rank 30 on a weapon, ie the first levelling.¬† This makes forma optional, not forced.¬†
  • rank 30-40 accessible via adding up to 5 forma, each forma is 2 ranks
  • rank 30-40 increases capacity like it does now
  • each forma increases the bonus stat to the maximum value at 5 forma.¬†
  • Ideally no repeats until we get 1 of each weapon.¬†

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16 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

For me these are the main issues:

  • ¬†
  • .¬†

I completely agree with everything you said.  All I would like to add is the ability to upgrade a weapon progressively using the Foundary.

In other words, place the desired and duplicate weapon into Foundary with kuva, shards, etc., then get 1/4 % of duplicate weapon stats added to desired weapon to cap at 60%.  

This would make it possible to collect mutiple of same weapon but different elements and Max them out.  This does 3 things:

1.) Now low or undesired elements can be traded for plat

2.) Gives a reason to go back and grind system for that perfect weapon for someone who already has them all.  

3.) Creates something for clan to do with new kuva dojo room.  You can research each weapon combination, i.e. braak blueprint research (15K credit each) which allows you to combine.  The research itself can cost kuva, shards, maybe even a requim mod (allowing spent mods to work).

The replacement of weapon % is a BS bandaid.  It needs to be progressive so we are always moving forward.  To many junk rewards for time consuming process.  

 

Ok, one more thing, we need to be able to taunt our lich to increase his aggro at least once per day or appease (with credits) to reduce aggro.  

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17 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I completely agree with everything you said.  All I would like to add is the ability to upgrade a weapon progressively using the Foundary.

In other words, place the desired and duplicate weapon into Foundary with kuva, shards, etc., then get 1/4 % of duplicate weapon stats added to desired weapon to cap at 60%.  

This would make it possible to collect mutiple of same weapon but different elements and Max them out.  This does 3 things:

1.) Now low or undesired elements can be traded for plat

2.) Gives a reason to go back and grind system for that perfect weapon for someone who already has them all.  

3.) Creates something for clan to do with new kuva dojo room.  You can research each weapon combination, i.e. braak blueprint research (15K credit each) which allows you to combine.  The research itself can cost kuva, shards, maybe even a requim mod (allowing spent mods to work).

The replacement of weapon % is a BS bandaid.  It needs to be progressive so we are always moving forward.  To many junk rewards for time consuming process.  

 

Ok, one more thing, we need to be able to taunt our lich to increase his aggro at least once per day or appease (with credits) to reduce aggro.  

Essentially kuva weapons have the same underlying issues as rivens where people want specific 'stats' and unless they change the overall kuva weapon system we're basically stuck with the usual rng lottery.

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I give up! This is the final drop for me. I can’t choose to kill the Lich and I have to farm all relics based on rng. If I don’t farm to kill the Lich he is stealing all my things, forcing me to farm. No, this system isn’t good at all. 

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  1. wtf at the afinity in lich missions??
  2. possible lich nodes getting duped (on console atleast)
  3. wtf at these mods nod being available for exilus slots???

#1.  Arent enemies suppose to be  worth more affinity the higher level they are??  I like the new Lich system, however I am not a fan of the high level enemies we have to wade through but I do it.   But one thing I have noticed is they dont seem to be worth jack $%^ as far as affinity which is really really disappointing.  I can murder tons of lv70-100 stuff in a Lich node and get hardly anything or I can go into a crappy normal node vs lv30 enemies and get tons of affinity???  

I took an unranked warframe into a Lich node survival that was probably lv50-70 enemies and after 10 mins in there my Warframe was only Lv8 when it came out lol.  Depsite having 100+ kills.   Now as a veteran player who still needs to farm focus I am really disappointed.   This is some really high level/end game content and I actually enjoy doing it.  If the affinity matched the difficulty it would be pretty perfect.   

#2.  On ps4 I have noticed that if I have my matchmaking set to invite only and I do a Lich node,  after the mission..    the Lich node is still active there and I can do it again.   After 2 they disappear though everytime.   I dont think this happens when you have it open to the public... but maybe...    This could be one of the source of lag on consoles??  These nodes getting duped??

#3.  Why are +Mag size ammo mods not in the available selection for the new Exilus slots????   We can increase our max ammo capacity but we cant use the mods to increase how much ammo is in our clips???   Clip size > Ammo cap in my opinion.  We can also have ammo mutation for infinite ammo so again what is the reason behind no clip size mods ??   NOT that there are very many weapons where we can even USE the new exilus slots.   Kuva weapons yay....   

What if the exilus slots on weapons worked like aura slots on warframes?   Instead of costing mod capacity they ADD to it???  

 

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