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[DE]Danielle

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32 liches, 6 stubba, 4 karak,4 ayanga, 3 ogris, 3 quartakk, 3 kraken, 3 chakkhurr, 2 shildeg, 2 drakgoon, 1 brakk

No Kohm,  No Tonkor.

Angry and tired.

Why so silly?

Even though now I can buy lich that carries the weapon I need I still need to spend almost 3 or 4 hours to kill it.

Why don't just trade the weapon?

Wasting players' time make you feel happy?
 

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2 minutes ago, ArchWu5 said:

32 liches, 6 stubba, 4 karak,4 ayanga, 3 ogris, 3 quartakk, 3 kraken, 3 chakkhurr, 2 shildeg, 2 drakgoon, 1 brakk

No Kohm,  No Tonkor.

Angry and tired.

Why so silly?

Even though now I can buy lich that carries the weapon I need I still need to spend almost 3 or 4 hours to kill it.

Why don't just trade the weapon?

Wasting players' time make you feel happy?
 

My time is limited and it's for forma my weapons,not for being wasted on a repeated lich!

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why wasn't this locked behind a solo high level quest?
the subreddit and forums are filled with examples of people that didn't know better and aren't strong enough to fight their Lich. the Larvling spawns at 20+ yet once you've made him a Lich the level jumps to 50+ right away.
I'm all for endgame content but you need to draw a line in the sand here. you can't have high level content but also try to include new and low level players at the same time.

It should have been a quest given by Teshin, who has been keeping an eye on the Queen. he'd be the one to give you the Parazon and explain how to actually use it. after dealing with the first Lich the mission is complete and they spawn as they do now.

Alternatively make the entire quest about acquiring/constructing the parazon. Parts are aquired from lvl 50+ kuva guards.

DE seem to have a habit of introducing mechanics and content with very little in game explanation. you can't expect people to have to read forum posts to figure it out. and it feels very inorganic to keep tabbing out and checking the wiki to know what the hell is going on.

and for the love of God, why did you work so hard on breaking the meta then introduce an enemy that is totally immune to status procs. it just forces a crit build.

overall this content feels rushed. you don't have to cater to impatient children who whine about content droughts by dropping what feels like content still in the prototype phase.

Edited by Hekkatos
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Not exactly a bug, so its better to be here.
Please fix/change the hitbox of Lich grab or make they cant grab you while rolling animation. Rolling on sides and even sometimes backwards, Lich still grabs you midroll. Feels really cheap and doesnt reward the player for his reflexes. Also the grab attack is very inconsistent. 3 point animation, grab-smack-kick is 90% a death sentence, while others either do serious damage or dont do any at all.

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Looks like a HUGE amount of effort went into this update.  Pity that it's ruined by the zenistar and catchmoon changes.  It's weird what gamers enjoy about a game that keeps them playing it...something obscure like the cool features of a zenistar.  Based off of the discussion on Reddit, some users wanted to the catchmoon nerf.  I definitely did not I completely don't understand why you destroyed the zenistar.  However, the changes immediately moved me to non-paying player from actually frequently spending money with you guys for 9 months.  Actually I would buy prime packs for prime frames I already had just to know I was donating to a gaming company I believed in.  I will not spend another dollar on it, and most likely I will quit playing altogether because of the changes (and the threatened changes for several other weapons I like).  Looks like you're following the "successful" business model of Destiny.  Perhaps you should read their reviews.  I'll be changing mine for warframe to match mine for Destiny (1-star) now too.

The industry wide policy of nerfing weapons is a poor business practice for dealing with your perceived problem.  You make a living by creating a product that gamers like.  Taking that well-liked product and actually making it so people like it less is completely foolish.  You could create other more desirable weapons that are similar and sell them.  That is a win-win.  What you've created is a lose-lose.  I have lost a game I loved just yesterday, and you've lost my money.

What you owe me for this changes:  13 forma for two catchmoons, 60 plat for the 3 weapons slots, probably 200k kuva on rolling the rivens, 60 plat for 3 orokin catalysts, all the standing I spent on pax seeker, 5 forma for zenistar.  

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Dear DE,

Here's my feedback, as gaming father, who spends time in this game to have fun, but also to be able to spend time with my kids - so see this feedback from a family perspective.

While I can appreciate the Kuva Lich system as something for the more advanced players, this has really struck a blow to my our families "fun time together". Let me explain:

I play Warframe with my boys. This is our fun time and family time. I dont get to see them much, so this is something we cherish.

As of the Kuva Lich system release my youngest son didn't fully understand the implications of going after one. After all, english is not his native language, and to top it off he's dyslectic. Not a great combo to have, when you try to read up on what's going on.

So now he has a Kuva Lich hunting him down and spreading his influence over the planets.

After just about 10 minutes of this Kuva play, he feels like doing something else. He wants to farm Ivara and do spy missions. When I explain to him that it's a bit pointless, as the blueprint will most likely be stolen from the Kuva lich, he gets very sad and says that he doesn't want to play Warframe any more.

And herein lies the root of problem with this system. It's thrusted upon players, in a way that is unavoidable (was at the time he killed the larva), unless you are fully fluent in the language and understand what your getting yourself into. If you not, you risk having a very bad gaming experience, that sticks with you for a very long time.

At this point there is no way he can kill his Kuva Lich. He doesn't have the frames, or weapons, or mods, or parazons to stand a chance. His gaming experience has completely turned from pleasant to this mountain of a chore and so family time have come to an abrupt close, as we scour the interwebs for something else to play together.

As a final thought and also a question to you. Will you implement a way for players, who never had the intention to get involved in the Kuva Lich system, to get rid of their Kuva Lich without having to go through the grind to kill it?

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Haven't played it much - maybe 12 hours total.

  • GRENDEL FARM: Never have I enjoyed warframe so little.  Everything that has been worked for, farmed for, build-tested - just thrown to the side because a complete lack of creativity on the part of DE on how to make challenging content.  The missions were nothing more than a slog with very few viable builds and _really_ suck for people who prefer to play solo.  On the good side, the guaranteed drop meant I only had to suffer once for an hour or so.  But I would have preferred 3-5 hours of farming for a chance over that nonsense.
  • MELEE CHANGES: I don't like them - but that is primarily due to the vast majority of my rivens, forma'd weapons, builds etc are broken AF right now.  Sure, everything on the star chart still melts up to level 120 in one hit, but not with a playstyle nor weapons i preferred.  And I can't help but feel disappointment that all the effort that went into testing builds, farming mods, farming rivens, farming kuva have just been flushed down the toilet.  
  • FORMA BUNDLE/LEGENDARY CORE/AFFINITY BOOSTER: Forma bundle - what a joke - doesn't even make up for the formas a single weapon - say the catchmoon - much less the hundred or so on my melee builds.  And all this in the face of 65 required forma on the Kuva weapons. LEGENDARY CORE: a nice perk for some I suppose. Useless to me - already have a few and don't need credits or endo. But nice for new players I guess. AFFINITY BOOSTER: 7 days for what - won't have the kuva weapons, grendel takes 4ish days to build so net its 3 days.  Again nice for new players I suppose that have other stuff to level. And I suppose were I inclined to start testing new melee builds, I could have used it - but feeling like any time spent is time that DE won't respect in the future combined with 65 formas being needed for the Kuva weapons means I'm not going to forma weapons for fun.
  • KUVA LICH ETC:
    • Finally a way to have missions with higher level enemies.  Of course the drops suck, but its a start.
    • The install kill is, IMHO, stupid.
      • I melt him in under two seconds - then while stabbing him in the back he some how pulls a Bane and snaps my back. Yeah, ok.
      • No counter play - more recently I've just been walking up to him and standing there waiting for him to kill me as anything else is a waste of time.
      • The animation is too long- stuck in that while objectives get destroyed, life support goes down, or generally just get annoyed at the game.
      • Would have been far better if you get him to 1 health and he runs away "You can't kill me that easily tenno - I'll be back to finish you etc etc"
    • THRALLS: Feel completely pointless. So little is gained by these murmers as to be inconsequential. faster to just brute force it.  They feel like a complete wast of time inserted only to extend how long it takes to deal with any of this. An artificial time gate that is no more engaging than that.
    • REQUIEM RELICS: More artificial time gating masquerading as content.  And no, I don't want to have to keep going back to Kuva fortress. No I don't want to have to keep doing Kuva missions - the continous weapon rebalancing, riven disposition changes, melee changes etc mean that I'm not wasting time on Rivens that will be worthless the day after I finally get farmed and rolled just the way I want it.
    • REQUIEM MODS:  Its not sufficient that you don't know which of the 8 you need, but then you have to RNG your way to sequence them. More RNG time gating.  With all the above its like you measure the quality of your updates by how much people play them with no consideration for if people would play them without being forced to.  Personally, I played fissure missions. I played Eidolons. I played long survivals. I don't need ANY of the rewards from it - I CHOSE to play them because I enjoyed the game play.  None of the lich system has that same appeal nor replayability TO ME.

What would have made it bearable? Perhaps every thrall has 100% chance to drop a MOD (not relic). When you encounter the lich you equip your mods - and they are consumed successful or not.  Get all three correct - lich dies. Get one correct it tells you that was the correct one ( but now you need another) and the other two are consumed and marked NOT correct).  Faster to kill your lich - those that just want the MR will be done with it, those that want to keep hunting more and more liches for better RNG stats on their POS brakk can do so. 

TLDR: feels like the majority of this "new content" is just artificial RNG barriers to pretending to be content.

 

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There are a lot of things to like in the Old Blood update. It's nice to see the attempt at a game play loop(Lich system), I expect it to improve. I enjoy being able to rank a Lich to 5 and have nodes that are 90-110 to enjoy. I do not enjoy that I am limited to 5 waves of defense, or the other imposed limits on endless play, why can't I just stay and farm thralls if I want? Short missions are boring which is why most of my play is solo.

I used to enjoy and relax with endless Ivara on Mot. The fact you had some endless options for those of us that enjoyed them was fantastic game design, even if it was an accident. Is the Zenistar change a result of that? How many people used the Zenistar? I used it on occasion for one specific frame, but it hardly received a bulk of game play, and will see even less now. The catchmoon changes do not bother me at all really. 

The current control lay out is on an entirely new level of clunky. Did you all have an idea of where you were going when you started making the melee changes? I'd love to see those ideas. Currently if you swap to secondary, then equip your scanner, scan a plant, and put away your scanner, you magically are holding your primary again. The same happens if you choose to fire a round, which is bad if your primary is also a self damage weapon. It's Odd, makes no sense, and clunky. Having to first pull out melee, then use change weapon(with a hold) to enter melee only, is yet another clunky way to handle something that could have been streamlined. Why can I not bind my secondary separate from my primary, so I pull the right tool for the job, and why can't the current system seem to remember which weapon I last had equipped? Cycling between weapons on a single key is sloppy, it's a reason I stopped playing on consoles decades ago.

Switch weapon, and switch gun are almost redundant. It's a shame that they are not primary, and secondary, since melee is it's own key, but it would require a bunch of changes so the system would actually make sense and not have a clunky feel. I would have tied fire a round to draw weapon, which would fire last weapon equipped, and add an option to have a separate bind for secondary which could also have fire a round tie'd. Then Players could fire a round from last equipped, and use the same key to swap guns, or have the option to hit a separate key for either primary, or secondary(which is what I would use), but then I like more options not less. That would leave manual blocking as it was, and free up the left mouse as well for future channeling/rage system if it is ever added.

The redundant heavy attack option, one of which can't be disabled(hold melee), will spend combo counter by mistake on faster melee among other things. This was a poorly thought out change. Old charge attack did not drain your combo counter, new Heavy Attacks drain the combo counter, not being able to disable that is bad, if you choose to play anything other than HA builds. Speaking of HA builds they are immersion breaking, and look out of place in Warframe, playing Ivara as a stealth one punch rhino, actually caused me to log out in disgust, and I was the one that came up with the build theory. 

Personally I would have rather seen the channeling system fixed. There was nothing really preventing ragdoll physics being added, without the Heavy Attack system, which feels very much like the old spamtastic system from a bygone era in Warframe.

I'm enjoying the roll as an animation cancel, but I know people are going to abuse the mechanics, as animation cancels are almost always abused with macros.😟

Your current fix for Corpus Hacking terminals is game breaking.It can prevent solo of LUA rescue,  well as cause issues on the Orb Vallis bounties. I had to stop a solo bounty earlier today because it sent me to a terminal I hacked in a previous bounty, which prevented me from accessing the terminal. Why not just remove the affinity gained for successive hacks, that would at least not break other important things?

I love you all!😘 It's why I continue to support the game, sorry if it sounds negative. There are lot of nice changes, they just happen to be getting dragged down by some of the not so nice changes.

 

Edited by Nichivo
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Let Liches drop built formas with a 2% chance

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second lich converted, second time the UI bugged out

the second murmur wasn't being displayed when I hit X

then the interface was gone completely. It left me with murmur 1 being displayed on the bottom of the screen

 

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On 2019-11-20 at 1:41 PM, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

 

  • KUVA LICH ETC:
    • Finally a way to have missions with higher level enemies.  Of course the drops suck, but its a start.
    • The install kill is, IMHO, stupid.
      • I melt him in under two seconds - then while stabbing him in the back he some how pulls a Bane and snaps my back. Yeah, ok.
      • No counter play - more recently I've just been walking up to him and standing there waiting for him to kill me as anything else is a waste of time.
      • The animation is too long- stuck in that while objectives get destroyed, life support goes down, or generally just get annoyed at the game.
      • Would have been far better if you get him to 1 health and he runs away "You can't kill me that easily tenno - I'll be back to finish you etc etc"
    • THRALLS: Feel completely pointless. So little is gained by these murmers as to be inconsequential. faster to just brute force it.  They feel like a complete wast of time inserted only to extend how long it takes to deal with any of this. An artificial time gate that is no more engaging than that.
    • REQUIEM RELICS: More artificial time gating masquerading as content.  And no, I don't want to have to keep going back to Kuva fortress. No I don't want to have to keep doing Kuva missions - the continous weapon rebalancing, riven disposition changes, melee changes etc mean that I'm not wasting time on Rivens that will be worthless the day after I finally get farmed and rolled just the way I want it.
    • REQUIEM MODS:  Its not sufficient that you don't know which of the 8 you need, but then you have to RNG your way to sequence them. More RNG time gating.  With all the above its like you measure the quality of your updates by how much people play them with no consideration for if people would play them without being forced to.  Personally, I played fissure missions. I played Eidolons. I played long survivals. I don't need ANY of the rewards from it - I CHOSE to play them because I enjoyed the game play.  None of the lich system has that same appeal nor replayability TO ME.

 

  • Kuva Lich's
    • The insta-kill is without a doubt....stupid.
    • This new, "Flee" mechanic will fix some hostility among the community but not all. 
    • Countering shouldn't even be a thing. We should just be able to fight back. RNG suicide coin-flip is a HORRIBLE idea.
    • Players don't want to go to their doom to progress. 
  • Thralls
    • Is definitely pointless and doesn't make sense lore wise. Brute forcing is faster but again, lot of people don't like suiciding to progress.
      • Makes me think DE will nerf brute forcing it instead of alleviating pointless time gated grind.
  • Requiem Relics
    • Definitely a time gate to keep players, "Engaged". Strongly dislike it but at the same time I understand DE's need to put "Filler content" for this process since it doesn't look like they're overhauling the entire system to be unique and engaging. 
  • Requiem Mods
    • We need a way to figure out the order ahead of time.
    • Grinding away to get all these things then grinding again throwing our lives away trying to figure out the correct order is just silly.
    • Nothing about it feels accomplishing. Feels like I just got lucky and have a sense of "Yes, I finally guessed right!" instead of, "Yes, I finally did it!"
Edited by Sunder

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I feel nothing for the Liches themselves, but the system... I dislike it.

It's impossible to articulate just how much I dislike it on these forums, because I would need to use words that would make the tender-hearted weep and cower. I would need to use words that would hurt some people very deeply.

That's why I won't be describing how much I dislike this system; I will instead say that there is absolutely zero fun in it for me. I've had negative fun - a lot of negative fun. I've spent about 20 hours with this hateful thing and I have yet to kill my third Lich. I haven't even gotten any weapon duplicates. I pray that whatever God exists will heal the souls of those who suffer through duplicates.

Let's dig into why I have yet to kill my third Lich. The murmur grind takes hours. The Lich often doesn't show up, either because I keep getting "Paranoid" quirks or because someone else's Lich spawns instead and the game decides that's enough. When my Lich does spawn, I've been unfortunate enough to have them all reach level 5 and dear sweet crusty Greasus is the damage reduction poorly tuned.

Fighting with elements the Lich isn't resistant to, using 5-dispo weapons with very expensive and high-end rivens putting out tens of thousands of (base) damage... I get to enjoy a feast of 1s, 2s and 5s floating gracefully off the hitbox of my so-called nemesis. All the while, my squad is dining heartily on a buffet of Rad procs, Viral procs and all other manner of further irritating meshuggas that only serves to underscore that DE is working with a game that fundamentally cannot create difficulty. Someone should've seen this and flagged it down for reworking before it was inflicted upon the innocent public.

The dang Lich is not my nemesis, the system itself is. It has successfully drained all of the fun out of my time in Warframe. There is no enjoyment left at all, only the urge to pay someone else whatever amount of platinum is required to get these weapons and throw this whole system down the deepest memory hole my mind can conjure. 

am genuinely sad to feel this way about Kuva Liches, and I'm sad for all the work that some poor people did put into creating... what we got. I just cannot pretend to have anything positive to say about it when that isn't how I really feel. It wouldn't be fair to DE.

 

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As The Kuva Lich system barely got a mention on last nights Dev Stream, despite promises that such subjects as commitment and RNG would be talked about but weren't even mentioned, would anyone from Digital Extremes please like to comment here on any changes that we're going to be seeing in The Old Blood now that you've moved away from that and into Rising Tide?

Just because you've moved onto something else doesn't mean that the problems people are facing has gone away.

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In my opinion, the Kuva-Lich system is pretty good. It's fun, but in some places a few things that should be improved.

However, what bothers me is that any failure due to missing or incorrect Parazon mods ends in the death of the player.
The Lich speaks of countless deaths and his ability to rise again and again. However, after the Lich kills the player, this statement makes little sense.
Maybe it would be better to kill the Lich, despite false Parazon Mods and therefore raise him stronger again. In any case, would fit better with the statements about the immortality of Lich fighters. This immortality can only be canceled by the right combination of Parazons.

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It feels like you're getting greedy, to be honest.  It was bad enough with the deluxe bundles containing so many "bundle only" items, like the fact that despite being the weapon type with the most variants, dual swords only had two skins and both are locked behind being bundle only, but this new "lich starter pack" for nearly 900 plat is ridiculous.  There might be some things in there I want, but you've lost your mind if you think I'm paying over $40 in plat because I might want one chest piece.  Not breaking out items to be sold individually has always been a mistake but this bundle is some Bethesda level BS.  Want one thing?  Gotta buy it all.  Not okay.

As for the update itself, I actually like the melee system, despite having a lot of reservations about it initially.  What I don't like is the implication that you might just change up the modding system that we dump so many hours into and not actually compensate us properly.  People spend hours just on the re-leveling process of applying forma, and to just negate that and compensate for it so poorly is terrible.  Forma right now creates massive inflexibility in builds, and is really sensitive to change.  If you're going to just change everything up, the modding/formaing process itself needs to reflect that.  If I re-level a weapon 6 times and spend 6 real days building forma and put all that time and material into it then the weapon should be future-proof as far as modularity is concerned, exilus slot not withstanding.  That's a new slot and I have zero qualms needing to apply extra work to use it.  I shouldn't need to re-forma and re-level over a dozen different weapons because you changed the system.  If all I had to do this update was shift thinking into what mods were going to be optimal for a given weapon's base stats and then drop them in, I wouldn't have cared.  Instead, several of my old favorites are probably not going to see any use despite having been built out, simply because I hate redoing work that should already be done.  I'd rather quit.

The Lich system itself has some massive hang ups for me.  I don't actually find the Liches themselves annoying, like I thought I would.  I enjoy the higher level missions, the new animations for taking down thralls feel good, and I like the parazon.  It feels much better to use, than just typing on a console that doesn't even appear to have buttons.  But the system itself feels incredibly unrewarding.  There is a MASSIVE level of grind and RNG involved just getting the mods to take your lich down.  I want to say Murmur farming isn't that bad, but I know it will get old with how long it takes.  I already hate the grind to get Requiem mods though, and I barely have any.  I've burned several radiant mods in pub (where everyone else also had radiants.) and just seen kuva/stars across the board.  It feels like a slap in the face, each time, because I literally can't progress without the mods.  The fact that this horrendous RNG grind-fest takes place on the Kuva fortress is just compounding frustration.  I'm so sick of this tileset.  Kuva survival was the ONLY reliable place to get kuva and also reliably find a pub squad to do it with.  I've been on this cramped, annoying tileset far too long as it stands, and now I'm here cracking relics that are crapping on me with bad RNG.  My warframe gets hung up on everything.  Parkour feels awful here, and I can't ever tell where I'm going despite how long I've spent here because the whole tileset is just a mess of dead ends and things to get caught on.  It's the opposite of the Jupiter tileset, which is fantastic.  Top all that grind, RNG, and frustration off with the fact that the ONLY benefit provided by engaging with this system is a new weapon which may or may not be trash depending on several other layers of RNG, and the fact that it takes SIXTYFIVE goddamn forma to get all the MR off the weapons, and what you have is an update that almost feels like a punishment.

There is literally no benefit to the player for engaging in the new Lich system apart from the grindy, RNG weapons.  You get your stuff stolen, and then get it back.  For high MR players it means nothing.  For lower MR players it can be almost game breaking.  There is not point to this system.  It does absolutely nothing but punish players who can't handle the content, and annoy players who can.  It doesn't feel compelling, or interesting.  I have the same mild irritation when my game lags.  The weapons being so RNG is equally frustrating.  Hours of grind for a weapon you may not even want, that may be worth nothing to other players as well.  Even more hours trying to search for a weapon with a better bonus.  Why add that extra layer in?  It's enough grind and RNG just to get the weapon you want with the element you want on it.  Why not just make it the flat 60% bonus across the board with no extra BS layer of RNG?  Because there's literally zero reason to engage with your content other than fighting the RNG while hunting a better bonus?  That's horrible and lazy game design.  Grind isn't content.  There needs to be actual rewards to playing the content besides just the weapons.

Proposed fixes for the Lich system: 

Resources and credits taken need to have a multiplier applied to them upon return, based on Lich level when killed/converted.  Get back more than you lost, that's an actual reward.  Relics taken come back with extra traces, again, based on Lich level.  Mods taken come back with endo.  Prime parts taken come back with ducats, etc.  Now there's a reason to care about Lich level being high, and a reward that would actually benefit low to mid level players, and even higher level players.  Actual, substantial multipliers would actually make it worth it to engage with the system.

Weapon elemental bonus needs to just be a non-variable flat bonus across the board.  Having to hunt over and over and over for min/maxing purposes is the shallowest non-content I can imagine.  Farming the weapons to get perfect bonuses should not be some endgame goal.  Get the weapons you want, now you're done getting weapons and you can convert the Liches for your own purposes.  Having the min/max grind be the ONLY reward in the system is a large part of the hate this new system is getting.  It's too grindy and too disappointing and too frustrating for far, far too little reward.

The relics themselves don't really need any work, despite my complaints about the RNG on grinding mods.  They'll stay relevant for Riven Slivers and extra Kuva during survival long after people stop caring about the Liches.  But there NEEDS to be another way to get the mods (No.  Not trade.) for taking down Liches.  Just getting the mods and the maintenance of having to upkeep your mod count if you're actively hunting Liches is far too grindy, especially to start with.  Right now we're running missions (Murmur and relic farming.) to run missions (relic popping) to run missions (get your Lich to spawn and figure out mod order.) just to get 1 reward that might not even be worth it.  Starchart missions in general should just have a reward table that's worthwhile, but especially Lich missions.  All Lich nodes should have a reward table that includes just straight up requiem mods, not relics.  This is high level content, it should have good rewards.

Lich specters need massive improvement.  Them showing up should be a tide-turner, if anything is going wrong when they decide to step in.  They should be able to handle whatever level of enemies are in the mission, and they should be able to help with mission objectives, like taking and holding interception points.  Each converted Lich should have their own chance to spawn in a mission, with a cap on how many can spawn.  There needs to be some benefit to converting them besides the slave trade you have set up. 

Personally, I hate the auto-death that happens when you get the mod order/selection wrong.  It feels like when you're fighting a boss in any other game and then the after-fight cutscene plays and you go from stomping them out in the fight to suddenly losing in the scene just because that's what the story requires.  The system should change to what literally everyone thought or implied that it would be, where they die and then come back stronger when you get the mod order wrong.  We should only be seeing those animations when we actually fail.

There needs to be more incentive to do this content as a team.  I'm murmur farming solo right now, because it seems every time I join a pub mission for it, I spawn in when half the thralls are already dead, we get one to spawn, then everyone rushes extract as soon as the objective is complete and the node is wasted for what I intended to use it for.  There's no other reason to run these other than the thralls, since there's no good rewards from these missions right now.  Each player should have their own thrall spawn per mission, more players, more spawns.  Someone joins after half yours are dead, they still get the other half and everyone in the mission gets the benefit of killing theirs.  It will also speed up the murmur grind, which is pretty slow right now.

I don't really have a TL;DR for this.  Read it or don't, just wanted to give my 2c

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Level 5 liches need to drop kuva, right now the incentive is keeping them at level 4 for easier fights when they turn up that gives kuva, especially once you finish them, as opposed to a hard fight that doesn't. 10 more murmurs isn't worth it.

 

Edited by SolarDwagon

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On 2019-11-17 at 9:00 AM, ArchWu5 said:

My time is limited and it's for forma my weapons,not for being wasted on a repeated lich!

Learn to set yourself realistic goals. You knew the chances. Maybe you can't have everything. That's a realization many players cannot accept, like a child with their mother in a super market.

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Lich system has good foundation of assets and has potential to be even better with more voice lines and looks added to the pool. But that's it, it's the only enjoyable part of the system because mechanics are not enjoyable at all.

1. You spawn your lich and get that gun you don't want in majority of cases. You already know that you don't want it and now 2 hours of grind await you just to get rid of it. It's extremely demotivating and backwards to any good game design. No, hiding the gun somehow is not the solution that anyone wants. Consider:

  • letting us swap lich gun when it's still undefeated by destroying or stealing it in controllable manner
  • make gun more desirable to get by letting us add elemental bonus from weaker guns to stronger in small increments
  • let us trade guns themselves

2. Squadmaking doesn't work properly for lich and murmur hunt. It's borderline impossible to get an alliance squad in timely manner where every squadmate has same nodes under lich influence. You need to manually ask in chat if anyone there has this and that planet and node marked by lich and hope person you need will read the chat at this moment. Pubs are pubs, you got enough feedback about that, so you know why a lot of lich hunting happens solo. Solution would be to add both:

  • option for alliance only matchmaking (like we had in conclave) 
  • allow lich anger grow from killing any thralls on any nodes, regardless if under your lich influence or not. Anger should grow at the same rate as on inluenced nodes, not less.

3. Getting killed just to try a combination is not fun, and it's required way too often. Whole 350 kuva doesn't entice many people enough to do that, considering that apparently leveling up a lich is also undesired for some of them. I understand that lich supposedly gains experience from killing a player, and while it makes sense it doesn't do good for gameplay.

  • Make lich level up (without despawning) if a tenno bleeds out completely in lich presence, regardless if there was a cinematic spinebreak or not.
  • Make the mentioned spinebreak on parazon failure deplete 90% of hp and steal 1 revive directly without actually killing tenno once, so no affinity loss, etc., after which lich will despawn without leveling up.

4. Nobody likes rng lich spawns when they already know requiem combo.

  • Lich should drop a piece of a beacon on each despawn, lets say beacon requires 3 pieces so you can get more than 3 per lich. Beacons are universal and you can stockpile pieces. Blueprints should be sold by literally any faction you want (except conclave).

5. To reduce dilemma of keeping lich for more thralls or not

  • make more thralls spawn on succesful parazon attempt step
  • increase thrall and enemy spawn limit per mission when lich despawns
  • spawn a thrall team when lich is kneeled or despawned

6. Missions are disjointed and feel like a waste of time because they are separate from everything else you do.

  • Let some thralls spawn on influenced nodes even if you don't do the exlusive lich mission, so they can appear in fissures, sorties and so on in reduced quantities. Liches shouldn't spawn in normal missions though.
Edited by Trvldl
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  • Upvote 8

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1. Loading screen now give additional +7 +15 seconds on "login page" and same at mission start and end, making slow loading MORE SLOW (laptop) !!! (when you alt+tab )

 

2. Opening players profile stuck screen gui "no escape" now appear anytime/anywhere, before it was only in orbiter ( this bug 1 year old, progressing)

 2.1 On slow connection(mobile) "opening players profile" give infinity black loading screen ( it was actual in the summer)

 

3. Fishing have delayed click after fish hooking (week ago)

 

4.1 On Killing screen Lich (A+D) pressing "T" or have opened chat locks keys  "A/D" so you cant finish

  4.2 On Killing screen Lich (A+D) after pressing "A/D" and then "T" locks all keyboard keys in chat

 

5.Stab lich or smth (don’t remember,can’t reproduce ) can give archgun rivens(imperator vandal) shooting without pressing mouse-1

 5.1 At normal in-opertor +"hold mouse-1" and back to to "warframe with archgun" dont give seamless for convenience shooting

 

6. Operator animation in/out longer on slow pc(laptops) and  instantly on faster (sometimes it can forced by click mouse1-attack). It need option to disable this long animation on slow pc

Edited by AvatarShine

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Hijack objective has nowhere near enough HP to survive the slow push until the end of the level during higher level Lich missions. It needs to scale HP.

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Grendels energy to ability usefulness ratio is absolutely atrocious. It's quite difficult to get anything rolling when by the time I have enought enemies consumed for Mid-Level content, I have no energy to utilize any of his abilities. Also, the missions to get his parts are ridiculous, and the only reason anybody does them now, is because it's new. In the future, people aren't going to do these missions, simply on the basis that they are absurd. It would have made more sense to have a series of excavations like with the Odonata quest.

Liches scale horribly and take very little damage even from their "weakness", meaning at ranks 1-4 nothing really changes save the levels of the enemies that are around, but at rank 5 I am dealing almost no damage to an enemy that is supposedly weak to Viral (something my Liches all seem to have an issue with). Their little insta-kill maneuver is also incredibly frustrating, because it just suddenly happens, and there is no way to see it coming or block it.

Also killing myself for the sake of seeing if I'm wrong feels stupid. Toss me away battered and bloody sure, but me dying seven times to figure out how to kill them once?

I like the idea behind this update, but it needs considerable improvement to make it feel worth it.

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My thoughts on the “Hold melee button to execute heavy attack” concept that was shipped. In all honesty this was a mistake, but I feel that this was just a bandaid to fix Operators running the Madurai school with Rising Blast’s charge attack mechanic. All well and good to apply a bandaid fix for this, but why not take a look at Focus schools again and construct them to be more fitting into the latest updates to Warframe’s combat system?

We can revert the “hold melee button to execute heavy attack” and keep heavy attacks distinctly to melee-alone alt-fire. With Madurai’s Rising Blast, remove its charge attack concept and slap a combo counter on it like Ember or Atlas’ Power 1.

While we’re at it, can we push Zenurik’s Inner Might into Naramon? And maybe trade a concept from Naramon into Zenurik? I feel that this would be the most fitting approach, and it would distinctly prioritize Naramon as THE melee focus school.

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