(PC) The Old Blood General Feedback

[-Refractor-]

So the new Zambuka sculpture from the arbitration shop costs 50 Vitus Essence and is worth only 2600 endo. I feel like one of those two numbers is wrong, spending 50 rounds of arbitration is only questionably worth it for the decoration and definitely not worth it for only 2600 endo.

[Cerikus]

I am sorry to say this, but this update is the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me. This game has amazing possibilities, but for quite some time you are unable to use these possibilities in a fun way... I love Warframe for the power fantasy and fun gameplay it can sometimes offer, but DE... I am sorry but this update is anything but fun. I was really looking forward to this, because it looked amazing while you were showing it on devstream, but you menaged to make it boring and tedious. I know for a fact, that you can save it really easily, because everything that I don't like is something you can change really quickly, but you have been getting the same feedback for years and you didn't do it, so I am hopeless. The key are the rewards!

The fact that the thrall missions are sometimes at least sortie level si amazing. Finally something non trivial to do, but it is just too much of a grind. I don't really mind the layers of RNG and the fact that the requiems are consumable, but what you NEED to do to make this fun is to change the droptables! The mechanic of lich stealing my rewards is amazing.. but when he steals 15 of nanospores... REALLY ? Ridiculus. Make the missions rewarding. If I am going to have to do dozens of mission to get the murmurs let me get some rewards.

Why are you so scared to reward players for playing? Are you affraid we are gonna leave when we have everything ? Well I am probably leaving anyway, so it's not working. Give us endo, kuva, credits, riven silver, more resources, rare mods. Literally anything but thrash. I was really looking forward to hunt my first lich, but so much of a boring grind killed all my enthusiasm and I just don't care anymore... Imagine the lich steals my kuva, rare mods and valuable resources and I hunt it down and finally get them. That is fun, that is thrilling...

 Why would I bother when he steals trash from me? He can definitely keep it...

And the Grendel missions are just another symptom of inability to make something fun. Give players the gear back and make enemies like 200lvl. THAT'S what is a good challenge. It's difficult, but not boring. You have to come up with good build, you have to get a good squad setup. That is fun. Using what you got over the years and using it to push further, Not take all we grinded for several years to make "false challange". 

You nerfed the Catchmoon because it became a "nonchoice" and I agree with that, but you make a mission where it is a nonchoice how to do them. I would want to maybe take newly reworked ember or vauban to this mission, but why would I do that, if they are completely useless without mods?

TLDR: It's too grindy and not fun, but can be saved by a small change of droptables and settings of missions. Please do it or it was all for nothing.

[Grav_Starstrider]

52 minutes ago, Diavoros said:

Posted this already in general but was recommended to post it in the feedback so...

My three problems with the melee rework:
 

First, the absolute butcher done on gunblades, Bullet Dance lost its best, or at the very least, most comfortable combo (backward input combo) and added 2 rather unwieldy combos that make it very hard to land a shot on anything. Also, the removal of the double shot on charged melee with that stance, now its one, very slow and weaker shot.
Second, some stances force movement change back to walking with some combos, which makes it annoying to toggle sprint after performing every combo and moving to the next enemy or enemies.
Last, while most melee weapons got not only a increase in their range, base damage, critical chance, critical damage and status chance, some even had their damage types modified, Zaws only got their base damage or range modified, which means they totally forgot about Zaw links stats, the critical chance, critical damage and status chance given by them wasn't changed one bit, while several weapons got great balance of CC or SC, zaws as strong as they are, can only pick CC or SC in a build as neutral links have mediocre stat bonuses. Not to mention that the CC, CD and SC given by the links is capped at 10-32%/x2.0/10-32%

There's two melee feedback threads as Danielle posted

9 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

This thread will be used to house feedback on the additions, changes, and all other from The Old Blood: Update 26.

If you are looking to provide feedback on the following subjects, please visit the dedicated threads:

• KUVA LICHES, PARAZON, KUVA WEAPON, ETC. FEEDBACK
• GRENDEL & MASSETER FEEDBACK
• VAUBAN & EMBER REVISITED FEEDBACK
• MELEE PHASE 2: TECHNIQUES FEEDBACK
• MELEE PHASE 2: STATS FEEDBACK
• THE OLD BLOOD BUG REPORTING

HOW TO WRITE FEEDBACK:

Before posting feedback be sure to spend enough time with what you are commenting on! Once you feel you have, and would like to share your thoughts, read the following guide from a Dev side to write good, useful feedback. A well constructed and thought out post is the way to go! 

1. Keep it simple
Write simple, directed points about the topic you feel strongly about. Remember to be constructive and to the point.

2. Back it up
Support your points with concrete points. X has better stats than Y. This ability is less useful when considering X. Provide in-game situational evidence or a solid foundation for your argument to rest upon.

3. Be polite

The best feedback occurs when two people discuss opposing viewpoints to find a constructive middle ground. Discussion is a natural part of feedback! Ensuring that it is polite and without personal attacks is key. We’re far less inclined to listen to feedback filled with personal attacks and rude speech. We are all trying our best!

The Forums can be an amazing tool when used correctly. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on The Old Blood: Update 26.
 

 

Also, @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve even with bloom and brightness a fair ways below defaults, without adaptive exposure, Navigation is totally blown out. Shouldn't the lighting more or less be balanced in a way that the most commonly encountered/inhabited locations more or less have the correct lighting at base brightness, glare, and whether adaptive exposure is on or off?

[Hyohakusha]

I dig the stance changes for the most part, Defiled Snapdragon lost quite a bit of mobility, but a few of my other favorites gained mobility and for the most part steps that plant you in place seem to have been reduced by quite a bit. Dunno why people are complaining about the damage, I'd rather yellow crit for 25k than red crit for 250.

Only have two complaints. First, the parazon relic mod grind. You need two of each relic, minimum. You need 800 freaking traces to refine them, minimum. I get that the drop rate on floods is bugged atm, but that's still a ridiculous wall of grind before you can actually go after a lich, and that's what I want to do; hunt down the liches, not hunt down relics and burn 40 just to get traces, with a booster. Considering how many people we have to shank with the parazon (which is quite fun) I fail to see why the Requiem Mods should be consumable. That's just unnecessary padding of grind, and it's adding an un-fun grind on top of a fun one. A "spells per day" mechanic where the charges regenerate would be much better than a "you cast it and your brain forgets the spell somehow" mechanic. Like have them be permanent and regenerate one charge per day. With the sheet variance in Liches and their weapons, there's more than enough to go for without adding consumable mods on top.

Second...


MY EYES!!!

(My frost is jet black and dark blue btw. Kinda hard to tell.)

[Zyga21]

I really hate how weak all the melee feels, please give us back red crits and slide clearing rooms. With how stupid end game gets in missions it used to be where melee was the only thing that would even allow you to push further, now it seems like thats gone and replaced with mediocre damage from heavy attacks which are slow and awkward to pull off because I have to hit my middle mouse button to do them and they have long ass wind up times. I don't care about the balance of the game, I'm not fighting grineer and expecting an epic showdown between us, I'm slaughtering masses of grineer like the death machine a warframe should be, with the reduced range and the reduced damage I feel like you've entirely killed all melee except the brute force weapons like the paracesis and special ones like silva & aegis and glaives, my only option for power seems to be the paracesis now, and even that feels a lot weaker without all the crits being red and in the 100ks. My ignis wraith is better at killing things, my tombfinger is better at killing things, my warframe abilities are great at killing things, why does the thing with very limited range have no ability to kill things easily? it was HONESTLY fine the way it was, melee felt powerful before with the restriction of having you in melee range, now I'm being punished for using big weapons because their range doesnt scale with reach, and I'm being forced into some combo oriented gameplay that I never wanted and now I have to take the time to fight every single enemy as if they're my equal and I had channeling taken away too? I love channeling, I love that for frames with nothing to use for energy I can just drain all their energy for extra damage on my melee while also vaporizing enemies, wisp and inaros were great because of this, please at least bring channeling back as a mod, like "multiply damage by 2.0 but drain x energy per hit"

My options now are basically silva and aegis (for the shield) telos boltace (for being mirage prime) or paracesis (for swinging at everything like a #*!%ing caveman till it dies) or the tatsu, for looking good

Edit: I forgot about gunblades, they fall in the same cat as glaives, they're ranged and powerful so... wew a 3rd gun, I'm really happy about that! (I'm not)

My old zaws is useless, all whips are dead, all daggers without finisher damage instantly killing are worthless, and all things that can't compare to the best in class, to things like silva and aegis, or the paracesis don't stand a chance, by making these changes you've killed off all the weapons that were useful, and made the clunkiest brute weapons the only ones worth using.

 

tldr:

I want my melee to be worth using, or I'm just not going to use it.

Why would I use melee with limited range if my pistol, primary, or warframe can kill it better and from afar.

having good style (by having fancy combos) =/= good gameplay

Edited November 1, 2019 by Zyga21
forgot about gunblades

[Oreades]

Yeah so decided, since I've gotten a few requium to go ahead and try makinga Kuva Lich to try it out..... 

Initially it was sorta entertaining and then the first encounter rolled around and what even the heck is this hot mess..... 

 

So I'm jumpin around trying to stay alive, as far as I can tell I downed her, go in hit X get the cinematic where you stabby stab her..... shock and awe the first combo is totally wrong because there is no way of telling what it's supposed to be.... so the Litch immediately retaliates by just picking me up and snapping mah spine.... That is about as arbitrary a death as ever there was one..... GG I guess?

It's not even a "good loss", you just end up feeling cheated.... why should I even care if you're just gonna lose if you don't have the magical combo of runes that says you win.... That isn't challenge it's a timesink check. 

To top that off my first Litch is in point of fact a garbage Litch, no interesting Ephemera, Z-Tier weapon, I have very little interest in continuing this quote unquote skirmish save for the fact that I have literally no choice but to plug my nose and choke this down and pray that maybe the next litch doesn't suck butts. 

[ArchangelusAlpharius]

It wasn't that difficult before to get heavy blades up to a 3x multiplier within a couple minutes and maintain that or higher for an entire survival. Now we have lost this, and what do we get? In general, less than a 2x damage boost for heavy blades. In other words, DE you lied to us. Where is this supposed big damage buff? Also, the loss of stacking damage multiplier as well as access to easy finishers has completely shafted Valkyr's claws with regards to long survival, as she now takes about 10-15 seconds to kill 1 level 160 bombard while in hysteria. You guys just buffed wukong and now he's trash again as well, since his stick doesn't have the damage multipliers anymore and takes almost 10 seconds to kill 1 level 160 bombard. 10 seconds is a very long time in Warframe combat. DE needs to revert the removal of the combo counter damage boost, and change heavy attacks to take away 0.5x or even 1x of that counter per attack, and give us back access to ground finishers and stun finishers. Parazon Mercy Kills are terrible and serve no functional purpose other than to be trash. In addition, since manual finishers such as stun or sleep finishers were removed, this renders Inaros unable to heal on demand, and makes playing Ivara as a dagger assassin frame utterly impossible. By removing critical components such as the damage multiplier and on demand finishers, you have rendered the game UNFUN for players. New combos are good, juggling is good, buffs for underperforming weapons are good, partial reversion to melee mode is good, 100% blocking is good, range increases are good, REMOVAL OF COMBO COUNTER DAMAGE BUFF IS TRASH, REMOVAL OF ON DEMAND FINISHERS IS TRASH, NERFING OF BLOOD RUSH CRITICAL RAMP IS TRASH. THE GOOD PARTS OF THIS REWORK ARE OVERSHADOWED BY THE TRASH.

Edited November 1, 2019 by ArchangelusAlpharius

[Ragnafiro]

Ember 3 sometime don't hit all enemies, despite Ember having line of sight and sufficient range to hit them.

[Allie_KO]

The grendel missions are doable, but not really fun. They act like a gear check for weapons and frames, and while hard, aren't fun. Allowing at least one of our items to once again be modded, say, every 5th wave, might be more fun, and still difficult.

[nokturnihs]

A lot of hard work surely went into this update and congrats on that. 

New lighting looks good.

Vampire Kavat - cool I guess.

Haven't played w/ Grendel.

Not looking at Kuva Lich system until melee is fixed/reverted.

Melee: looks pretty, renders the whole melee weapon class mostly useless. Needs either massive work or other changes.

For me personally, as a melee main, your hard nerf of all-things melee is unfortunately forcing me to take a break from warframe until remedied. 

Still - good work for most of it DE.

[Baldur]

As a general quality of life/usability issues I'm immediately struggling with melee almost always dropping sprint now

Before, some combos allowed me to keep moving & I preferred those, now melee feels clumsy. Which is the opposite of what I'd hoped from the rest of melee 2.0.

(also, pause combos were better then ⬆️ Forward combos because it doesn't restrict you to not moving at all if you want to do a different combo, so I miss pause combos)

[-Takara-]

Was testing new melee with heavy blade zaws. For some reason procing exodia hunt repeatedly on a group of enemies will slide you all over the place uncontrollably. Not sure if it's intentional but it's very annoying when using tempo royale and procing hunt everytime. Keeps sliding me off the simulacrum map (and I assume it will do so on tile sets you can fall out of) causing me to lose any abilities I fully stacked or toggled such as chroma, ember, nekros, etc.

[XXVISquallzero]

I'm maining Excalibur Umbra that's why it's noticeable to me

- Umbra not sentient anymore, if I go transference mode, he doesn't move, he is now the same as the normal warframes

- Exalted blade is so slow, I will try to get use to it

- Blood rush and life strike are a joke now. Though it opens to new builds

- Also I don't understand the separate sprint/roll and sprint and roll keybind

I suggest rollback the old melee, retain the kuva and other new content. Just give us our old melee back. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by joylynbasoc0208
Added description

[Disestablishmentarian]

Weapon Exilus Mods for primary and secondary both support Projectile Speed mods ( such as Terminal Velocity ). Would you please enable support for the other range mods, such as Sinister Reach and Ruinous Extension?  Both mod types behave the same way for different weapons, and neither increases DPS more than the other.  The Embolist has a range of 9 meters ... it would be nice to extend reach on this like we can now with the far more overpowered Pyrana Prime or Mara Detron.

[Meesha_Eko]

I would like to see these two changes as well

7 часов назад, GrimKonstantin сказал:

Before you started the journey to Melee 3.0, there was a keybinding that let use use a key to switch to melee rather than holding the weapon switch key. With the return of dedicated melee, it would be grand if you gave us that keybinding back as well.

Two separate keybindings are even still in the options - "Switch Weapon" and "Switch Gun". except they do the same thing. Please let us use one of them as switch between dedicated melee and hybrid mode without holding. The other keybing can keep the "hold to switch" options for those who find it more convinient.

7 часов назад, GrimKonstantin сказал:

if you could also return the concept that dedicated melee also used a seperate keybinding for melee attacks when enables, that would be great as well, as LMB for melee was much easier to use and in dedicated melee is completely unused since channelling is gone.

"Melee with fire weapon input" is not an answer to this suggestion, since it makes hybrid mode less convinient - I want to use fire keybind to shoot from the hip in this mode. But in full melee mode I would like to use fire keybind - it feels more comfortable along with block and heavy keybinds and is unused otherwise.

[SuikiAmon]

Give Grendel a story quest for his parts.

[bibmobello]

I really liked the grendel missions, (it was like to play a real hard game) and the new melee system and i hope there are other similar missions(maybe a bit shorter...). A nice update, congratulations!

There are few bugs,  you can't fully use the zenistar with ivara navigator for more than few seconds or making explode  a glaive during an heavy attack+ navigator, you have to deactivate navigator and then you can make the glaive explode.

pressing the right mouse button deactivates the melee and it's pretty boring if you wanna use an heavy slam attack...

Edited November 1, 2019 by bibmobello

[Etzu]

Not sure in which thread to put that so I put it in here:

When playing with lowest quality setting, Grendel and Atlas Leverian are Pitch Black. Gauss leverian was already kinda dark in lowest quality, but it was at least possible to see things. But even Gauss leverian was already way way way way too dark in lowest setting, I've realized that when looking a youtube video where the guy had volumetrics on and that made the entire leverian conftable for the eye, but without it it's not.

I'm also using dx10, and there are many other spot in the game where it feels like the "low settings" were forgotten in the design process. (relay arrival platform having a bright light on higher settings, in lowest quality it has litterally no light-ray visual effect on the center)

I feel important to report that, because warframe has always been a masterpiece of "faking high performance rendering" for low quality settings. Lots of light visual effects were faked using textures on low settings, but since the drop of 32 bit it seems that the beauty of the game on low setting is not anymore mandatory, as it's not anymore needed to support old dx version.

Keep the game awesome for low settings too please, ❤️

[cdemonec]

每个“安魂曲”中的“杂音”数量太多，最好将总数减少到三分之一。而且不要尝试“ 命运2 ”的俄罗斯嵌套任务繁琐而乏味。

[keyosbringer]

Aim assist stopped working for Archwing Melees and now it's almost impossible to hit anything unless you hug an enemy. Hope that gets fixed.

[CinderSail]

Can there be an alternative way to get vasca kavats? They're the only thing in the game outside of vaulted items, cosmetics, and slots that require spending plat if you want one.

Edited November 1, 2019 by SailingSilky

[Grav_Starstrider]

2 minutes ago, SailingSilky said:

Can there be an alternative way to get vasca kavats? They're the only thing in the game outside of vaulted items, cosmetics, and slots that require spending plat if you want one.

Your Kavat can encounter wild Vasca kavats, contract the vampiric condition, and you can imprint that to breed your own Vasca. That's all the "vasca imprints" are in the Vasca Kavat starter bundle thing.

[CinderSail]

I am aware. Those imprints from my own infected kavat cost 15 plat to make though.

[Camberwell]

Good day,

I really think that putting the default polarity for primary weapon exilus slot to V (Madurai) is bit wrong, considering that 90% of primary exilus mods are - (Naramon) polarity

[Zyga21]

1 hour ago, SailingSilky said:

I am aware. Those imprints from my own infected kavat cost 15 plat to make though.

no they don't, buy the blueprint for the genetic code template, then build them