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(PC) The Old Blood General Feedback

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 - Let's preface by saying, I'm fine with the "power level" of condition overload devs are looking for, but what I'm not particularly keen on is the "consistency" of the mod
While the power level dropped dramatically, CO is still a very strong mod that's dominantly used, and that's why I'm looking for a balanced, but constant boost to dps.

 

 - The old problem that made CO so broken was because it was exponential. The new update changed that to additive, which addressed the power level. That said, what made it inconsistent is that it's also additive to pressure point.
This means that buffs, arcanes and importantly, rivens with +damage will change how much condition overload will benefit you.

 

 - The easy solution that I can think of is make it multiplicative but also additive to itself. This makes its benefit a growing and capped constant that won't get out of hand.
Let's say CO is reverted to 60% per proc, up to 3 procs. Here's the damage comparision (with primed pressure point)
 + Live CO: 1 + 1.65 + 1.2 * 3 = 6.25
 + Suggested CO: (1 + 1.65) * (1 + 0.6*3) = 7.42
Now obviously, the latter shells out better damage, but it doesn't need to be so, depending on the percentage balancing, with the benefit of being consistent

 

 - Why should DE do this?
Berserker. Just like how berserker is a growing and capped constant to your dps (always multiplied seperately) for crit and hybrid melees, I'm looking for a Condition Overload that will be the same for status and hybrid melees. It doesn't have to be out of hand like old CO was, but it needs consistency.

 

Edited by Lewdcifer

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31 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

no they don't, buy the blueprint for the genetic code template, then build them

I didn't know that was a thing, thank you. I just started playing 3 months ago so things are still new to me.

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There's a couple of problems...

1. Healing Return is useless now

I am aware it was weak for a very long time. I still loved it though, because it was energy free, compared to Life Strike.

With removal of channeling, LS is energy free too, which kills HR completely.

I think HR finally needs a buff it deserved for years.

2. Orvius

In patch notes it says "Block+Alt Fire to throw glaive that will Suspend enemies".

So I tested it and it is very inconsistent. One time it explodes, another time it doesn't.

I also cannot throw my glaive (when equipped fully/alone) while mid-air. It does not matter where I aim, it always does this heavy slam.

Throwing while dual-wielding is still bearable and it is possible to throw mid-air. (no explosions tho - it used to explode before the update).

I really enjoyed doing trickshoots with my Orvius, but this update broke it.

3. ' X ' to stealth attack

Why? Just WHY

 

Thank you for reading.

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  • New Melee system's combo feels so random in execution.
  • Overall melee speed feels toned down a notch for whatever reason.
  • Condition Overload is SEVERELY over-nerfed. Please do recalculate the algorithm tied for it or revert it back.
  • Requiem mods needs to be permanent, not a one time use considering the double layered RNG it took us to farm the things BEFORE murmurs....
  • Adding to the above, add a separate bundle for "The Old Blood" cosmetics.
  • As to grinding for the Kuva relics ergo Requiem Mods, please either make kuva missions show up CONCURRENTLY on multiple planets instead of just one if you somehow insist on making Requiem mods consumable.
  • Increase the rate of which murmurs gauge fills up per kill. For crying out loud this phase adds nothing but filler/ padding to an already egregiously padded process. Do realize you made us STILL have to figure out the Requiem mods combinations, which is a 1 outta 27 chance of us getting it right on the 1st go, I.e. ANOTHER padding.
Edited by Tsardova
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Melee rebalance is perfect. You are fixing major issues in your game everything is simply not a cake walk anymore.

Condition Overload had to be super nerfed imo. The damage it dealt was unnecessary.

Edited by Midas
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The process of finding out the mod combination is too slow I have to kill hundreds of enemies to find out the mod combination it not difficult just outright annoying

Edited by Lazarow
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I hate to give negative feedback to a game I love and played for a very long time (over 3k playtime) and was there when things were hard. With each new major update, the game is changed slowly to something I do not like, many of the players who start with me just left the game and I guess it's time for me to quit as well (will still daily login, who knows DE might manage to hook me back as that happen when I quit before).
I do not mind change and the online games is all about adapt or leave, you can not make everyone happy but at least leave a small portion of the game untouched for the veterans to enjoy...
this is general feedback as I go through the change log, run the game and saw the changes (many things upset me to count), I guess new player might enjoy and love the changes as I talked with some people but I guess you pissed some veterans in the process.
Good luck DE and live long warframe.

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Fantastic update! Loving every bit of it! 

Although something seems to be very wrong with lighting, every indoor map looks very dark and outdoor looks very bright. I am playing on high settings.  

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Some feedback about melee 3.0

Would like to see exclusive melee mode editable key bindings come back, it bothers me after equipping melee by holding switch weapon key my LMB does nothing, would like to bind it as quick melee, i also would like to bind all other melee specific keys for exclusive melee mode like we used to be able to in melee 2.0. Also why i can't do heavy melee strike when i have gun in my hand, i have to swing air with quick melee before i can do heavy strike makes no sense to me. 

Edited by JuGGaStyle
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Disclaimer: Single examples added for each for ease of skimming, rather than due to being singular in the matter.


1. Hover info text is everyone's friend.
Expecting users to know what stylized icons mean prior to ever having any interaction with your software is an instant exam fail in any design uni.
Textbook case even.

unknown.png

 

2. Unify information boxes.
Whether you're portraying an item in the Market, chat link, arsenal, codex or otherwise, it should provide the same information.
As a recent example, not all stats present in the melee preview within the arsenal are present in the market/chat preview.
Screenshot courtesy of @TinkerManiak

unknown.png

 

3. Add background to menus which are expected to be in front of vivid/animated/distracting backgrounds.
This has been a common practice since the 50s western copywriting rules got written.
Ease of observation = ease of access = ease of use = user happy. The opposite applies.
unknown.png

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7 minutes ago, CxLL said:

Add background to menus which are expected to be in front of vivid/animated/distracting backgrounds

and make it above ALL other elements 

sc5cx2gngm.png

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My take on this update is EXTREMELY NEGATIVE, though conditionally so. As a result, I'm going to split feedback into two sections:

 

The content:

I don't have a lot of issues with the actual content of the update. The Kuva Lich system is fun in theory, having a somewhat persistent enemy who takes over part of the map and requires a roundabout approach to killing him, including some extra legwork and even some genuine guesswork. I also like the general thrust of the melee update, even if I still disagree with the chaotic unstructured selection of melee attack and old persistent issues like Autoblock still triggering an aim-glide FOR NO REASON. Grendel himself looks like an interesting Warframe with some unique mechanics. All of this makes me excited for what Empyrean will bring.

...In theory. In practice...

 

The grind:

The Old Blood represents some of the worst, most tedious, soul-sucking grind I've ever seen in Warframe, and that's saying a lot. I can think of only a single point in Warframe which is arguably worse than this update, and that's Focus Grind... And even Focus Grind is still deterministic. The Kuva Lich system is fractal RNG, each stage with low odds, all of it for an RNG reward. Grendel is an RNG grind capped with a what I can only describe as "the developers gave up trying to balance the game, so they just disabled mods and called it a day." This coming after that "Umbral mode" rental, and after the TennoCon Empyrean presentation where players were expected to burn resources to power the Empurean.

DE have been talking about "sustainable rewards," and that turned out exactly like how I expected it would - a combination of rentals, consumables and upkeep. Play the game to earn the resources needed to actually enjoy the game, maybe, some of the time. This is the same S#&$ World of Tanks has been pulling for years, and the same S#&$ I'm beyond done with. With the Old Blood, Warframe no longer feels like a game. It feels like a job during crunch time, where I'm expected to work on projects in-between my regular Nightwave workload and frankly... Yeah, I have better stuff to do with my spare time from my ACTUAL job what pays for Plat in this game.

This approach to loot is abominable, and I predict it's only going to get worse. It's BEEN getting worse for the little-over-a-year I've been around, and it was already pretty bad in Cetus when I started. I can get around some of it with real money - I've been buying a lot of Forma and Catalysts and such. But there's only far even a whale will go. Warframe is already on the verge of turning into simulated online casino themed after a video game property. It's RNG, the video game to the point of putting XCOM to shame. Even disregarding all real-money aspects of it, I honestly can't remember the last time I logged into Warframe and just played to have fun. Every single time the game's been twisting my arm with doing stuff for fear of missing out, or to get rid of an assassin or to capitalise on an event or because I'm being told that's what I'm supposed to do. Grinding RNG for the sake of engaging in more RNG might just be my breaking point.

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Hi! Thanks for the update, I like it in general, but i really want to talk about the big update bundle.

In it we have color palettes, mods and armor. And we don't have an option to get armor and palettes the other way. And that's fine! BUT.

I really don't need 6 similar chest pieces. I want to look at them and pick the one i like. Can we get some option of bying them some other way? Please? Also bundle without mods will be nice. I like to farm staff sometimes.

 

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Just checking to see if this is a bug or as intended? Found my Kuva  larvling but my celestial twin ganked him before i could so i got no credit for the kill i guess? back on my orbiter no icon and no red.....

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Short summary of awful things:

  • Kuva Liches need waaay to much grinding for almost no reward. For me its not motivating at all to grind Thrall missions dozen of times to just get a Weapon and my 10k Credits back.
  • Kuva Territory Missions are awfully implemented. Instead of letting the Thralls appear in all missions on that node, you have to grind one stupid mission for no reward 
  • Grendel's missions are way too hard for solo players
  • Zenistar Disk lasts only 10 seconds and finishers are on "X"? Why!?
  • Heavy attacks are clunky to use

Now the good part:

  • New smooth melee combos are really satisfying to use
  • The vampire Kavat is well done
  • Grendel is fun to play
  • Ember/Vauban rework was really good
  • Finally being able to see "all" weapon stats
  • The Parazon and its mods
Edited by Slint7789
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The short list of current weapon exilus mods is definitely begging for punch through and range to be converted to exilus mods!

The whole package of inserting the parazon into a terminal for hacking is slightly too much. It could be toned down just a little bit in all AV terms (lower sound, less particles, smaller animation).

Edited by SinistralMessa
Parazon hacking

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I only will write about the Grendel mission because that was enough to exit the game for now.

The Grendel part missions are very bad. First off, if you take away basically all the mods, item usage, transference, you should give visual/audio indication to the player that it's intended for this mission, like Simaris does in Sanctuary Onslaught. This information should have been organically built into the mission, not reading patch notes is not an excuse. I thought it's some bug or the melee got nerfed into the ground that much when the level 40 enemies did not die after a second from my heavily moded zaw stave.

I think Totalbiscuit said in one of his WTF is... game reviews for some 2D game, not sure, and I am paraphrasing it here, one of the worst game design is when you forcibly take away from the player the abilities they have earned through the game advancement, just to create some new challenge.

You basically take away the fun part, all the reward of the earned new game mechanics from the player and let them suffer through a challenge that probably wasn't even there when you start with a fresh account in Warframe. Even if this will stay as is, the minimum is that you lower the rounds of defense to 5. But basically all these "challenges" time to finish has to be cut by third. Never felt so frustrated and tired of a mission like this and I almost borderline enjoying the defection missions. This is too much even if you only need to do it three times.

I would rather farm it with 33% chance drop rates in a normal boss mission for 5 hours like the others, than do this new mechanic even for a half hour.

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The Operator cannot Void Blast in the air anymore, and it's very annoying.

Now he has to land completely to the ground to allow Void Blast, which is a crucial delay that can get the Operator killed.

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The "challenge” in Grendel missions is simply stupid. Depriving a player of everything he worked for in this game is not how you implement a challenge. 

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The grineer and corpus hacking diagram has been tilted now and it's kind of distorted our view on it and affect hacking a little. It's appreciated if they revert to the non-tilted version. 

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Speaking as someone who ran staves in my melee slot exclusively between the release of Melee 2.5 and now: the new Clashing Forest stance feels absolutely awful and runs counter to most of the stated design goals for the combo redesign.

 

Old forward combo: Resolute Flurry.  Three very quick attacks where the first lets you move at full speed and the other two stop you from running but come with a nice, big forward step.  It wasn't exactly a combo you wanted to mindlessly spam while running down a hallway, but those forward steps did a great job of keeping you moving from enemy to enemy without making it hard to stick to a tough target when you needed to.  It felt great.  Excellent mix of power, mobility, and control.  Only Vulpine Mask on rapiers had a more fluid forward combo.

New forward combo: Ostensibly created with mobility in mind, this is in fact dramatically less mobile than the old Resolute Flurry was on the exact same input.  The swings are sluggish and you feel like you're trudging through molasses.  Resolute Flurry was moved to the neutral combo, where it lost most of its mobility (it really isn't the same without it).

 

Old blocking forward combo: Skyward Limb.  Okay, technically this was the neutral combo, but if you held block while moving forward you'd do it instead of Resolute Flurry, exactly how tactical combos work now.  Anyway, this combo was a short string of sweeping attacks which allowed full movement followed by a leaping forward lunge.  The lunge was more than a little awkward, and the damage was rather poor, but you were moving at full run speed or faster for the whole combo, so it was good for swatting away weak enemies while moving.  It complimented Resolute Flurry well as a utility combo that traded damage and control for even more mobility.

New forward blocking combo: The old awkward lunge followed by a totally stationary follow up.  I never want to be forced into a dead stop during a forward combo.  There is no combination of forward and tactical combo inputs that let you feel like you retain decent mobility in the new stance.

 

The old forward and "tactical" combos were strictly superior to the new ones for keeping your mobility.  With these changes, staves went straight from being one of the most mobile weapon types to one of the least mobile.  I really don't see any good reason to use them anymore.

My recommendation: Revert Resolute Flurry to the old version with the forward steps and move it back to the forward combo.  Don't replace the neutral combo, so you do Resolute Flurry both standing and moving (one of the polearm stances is already like this).  Bring back the old Skyward Limb as the tactical combo (you can switch the attack order to put the lunge first if you absolutely must, for consistency).  Retool the current forward combo into a standing block combo (it's practically stationary as it is anyway).  This would feel way better and fit the stated design goals of the new combo system better.

Edited by LadyWyvernne

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Quick and dirty review.

  • Heavy attacks and the floaty juggle nonsense are awful, pointless, and immersion breaking.  Trying to build for combo efficiency without a riven, in order to make heavy attacks even slightly viable cuts you off from too many other more pertinent damage mods.  The attacks are too slow, with too little payoff.  There are still mods that reference "charge attacks" though they no longer exist, and in all honesty felt better than heavy attacks.  As for the lift status and juggles that some combos initiate, they serve no practical purpose, look terrible, and utterly break immersion when you uppercut an enemy and they just sort of hang there, floating off into the distance slowly rotating in air like they have just been flushed out of an airlock.  Honestly I would rather just have a knockdown affect than this.  This is an example of something nobody asked for, isn't needed, and is in fact out of place in this game.  You are trying to be DMC, and the physics engine you are built on just doesn't work.  I would really like to see this axed all together.  Do away with heavy attacks and bring back charge attacks.  Make charge attacks similar to your intent for heavy attacks, but just like the ember burning all her energy was a mistake, so too is burning all your combo.
  • The lighting changes look pretty amazing.  Some complain of overexposed and washed out bright environments, and I have seen one or two lights in levels that might be a tad overblown, but for the most part it looks amazing.  Leveling in Hydron as I often do, it is a whole new game.  Beautiful.  Only thing I can snipe at is that potentially you have unintentionally affected Mirage's Eclipse.  Very few spots on Hydron, for instance, will give her the damage buff, leaving her with the defensive buff in most places.  I would imagine that this will likely be similar in most indoor tilesets.
  • Many players complain about stealth finishers being moved to X.  I actually do not mind this.  When melee testing in the simulacrum on paused AI, accidentally doing finishers disrupts your testing.  If you do consider reverting this, I ask that you consider giving us an option for it, similar to the context action reloads option.  I think that would be a happy compromise.
  • The Grendel missions are a mistake.  It has been said by almost everyone, taking away all of our mods, our operator, arcanes, etc because "reasons?" Is a cheap, lazy, artificial slap-in-the-face challenge.  It makes no sense.  It isn't justified in any way.  It is never stated.  It is immersion breaking.  It is poor game design.  I don't know what you were thinking here.  It is pure amateur hour to design levels this way.  I don't really have a good thing to say about it.  Makes EV relevant again--I guess there's that.
  • Kuva Lich RNG hell.  Another fierce set of missteps here.  Doing kuva flood missions get a bit tired fairly quick and are soft locked.  The RNG on kuva siphon missions is skull-cracking.  30% should be a MINIMUM of 50% and in all honesty probably higher.  Combine that with the fact that you have to beat your head against fissures to farm at least 800 traces for a full set of requiem mods and the unfortunate reality that requiem mods are CONSUMABLES and you have a recipe for nonstop grinding.  This all leads to ganking 150 minions for murmurs and raising your KL's annoy-o-meter and still probably having to trial-and-error 2-3 times to get your reward.  It is a long, grindy, frustrating road.  But I guess its a good thing that you can just pay-to-win and buy your CONSUMABLE REQUIEM MODS.  I would rather spend plat on fur patterns.
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8 hours ago, Sirhcis said:

There's a couple of problems...

1. Healing Return is useless now

I am aware it was weak for a very long time. I still loved it though, because it was energy free, compared to Life Strike.

With removal of channeling, LS is energy free too, which kills HR completely.

I think HR finally needs a buff it deserved for years.

2. Orvius

In patch notes it says "Block+Alt Fire to throw glaive that will Suspend enemies".

So I tested it and it is very inconsistent. One time it explodes, another time it doesn't.

I also cannot throw my glaive (when equipped fully/alone) while mid-air. It does not matter where I aim, it always does this heavy slam.

Throwing while dual-wielding is still bearable and it is possible to throw mid-air. (no explosions tho - it used to explode before the update).

I really enjoyed doing trickshoots with my Orvius, but this update broke it.

3. ' X ' to stealth attack

Why? Just WHY

 

Thank you for reading.

healing return doesn't use channeling. if anything LS is useless because it requires you eat your combo counter for extra hp instead of building up the combo counter to a large extent.  remember the higher the combo counter the better damage you get so having to eat it every time you take a lot of daamge in not that useful. especially in high level areas.

Edited by hazerddex

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