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Grendel Missions

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2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

But it's only to farm grendel. Someone wrote he did solo using revenant but i am not 100% sure about that...

Oh i Solo'd it too, I brought Octavia. 

 

I just had no fun at all and thought it was ridiculous that my mods werent applied for these missions 

 

Edit; justify it all you want, adding a new mechanic or game mode to grind out grendel would have been preferable to my tastes (and apparently according to the forums its the same with a lot of players) 

Edited by Meyew
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2 minutes ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

salt doesnt really do anything for me nowadays unfortunately, so instead of jumping on the gitgud train and pretending I know what I'm talking about while giving 0 helpful advice... heres what worked for me:

dps - saryn,  I'm sure theres more options though.

ze energies - harrow or trin(can heal too obviously. note - must kill EV targets quickly, if possible target trash mobs)

buff frame - Rino Stronk (his 4 useful for revives or stopping defense target getting pwned)

4th slot - volt , shooting through his shields helped with dmg and also helps to revive ppl without becoming downed as well.

 

weapons are unmodded, I wish I could recommend something less lame but the ignis Wraith seemed to clear stuff the easiest.

take all this with a grain of salt ofc, half the fun of it is coming up with a strategy that works. 

ty ty and gl.

 

and yeah, solo gonna be tough... 

tried few weapons and ignis is the better, pox deals a lot of damage against corpus even without mod, Big hammers and i think even opticor vandal is really good. battacor is crap with and without mod, amprex the same.

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Somebody needs to tell DE that challenge doesnt equal frustrating or long and boring. Or CC, thats another DE favorit :-/ And striping our abilities isnt challenge either. All of that is lazy game design and admitting, that you cant think of something actualy fun AND challenging. Last good example are eidolons. Little bit too much chaos but fun and challenge. At least until the cheese was established. Its hurting me to say, but maybe look at Destiny to see how to make challenge fun. Im looking there right now and enjoying it despite my initial dislike of the game. And no, kuva bois and NW daily dont bring me back, not for long. Grendel missions -> just another one-shot content. All those HC heroes who lowe challenge, how many times will you play this mission, just for funzies? Yeah, I thought so. And after a few months, how new players will get grendel other than solo? And those missions are not build to solo. GG. I dread and hate and despair :-) to think about what Railjack will look like. But there are plenty fish in the sea...

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9 hours ago, Har-Vestor said:

Gear you worked for are basically cheats. Your arguments get stronger by the minute, friend... 
I want a challenge and my options to tackle and overcome this challenge, simple as that. If my toolbox is strong the challenge needs to be tough yes. BUT it needs to be an actual challenge, not  the age old trope in video games of stealing the players stuff to simulate urgency and difficulty. This is not difficult, its simply frustrating and boring while being unfair and unimaginative.

The game will never be challenging for me as long as I have access to my full arsenal. You are basically saying give me challenge but I want to be able to cheese it with my gear. WF is a toolbox game. They give you an infinite amount of tools that allow you to deal with any situation.

What you are asking for is a catch 22. Give me challenge but don't take away any of my challenge reducing tools. There`s a reason Warframe up until this point has had very little challenge, because they've never restricted your gear before.

But you all sit in this thread and just whine and complain. Give me Challenge. There is no challenge to be had in Warframe with your current arsenal. Okay they give you something that creates a challenging circumstance. NO i want challenge while still being able to become invulnerable with my operator, and restoring my energy with pizzas, and spinning around the map to instagib 30m diameter of enemies. Newsflash dude, they haven`t done it yet in 6 years, they aren't going to do it in 6 more.

If you don't like how to attain grendel, buy him with platinum. I thoroughly enjoyed the no grind approach, and I found it challenging. The defense felt a little bit slow because I didnt pick the best weapons to bring.

Edited by Skaleek
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3 hours ago, Skaleek said:

The game will never be challenging for me as long as I have access to my full arsenal. You are basically saying give me challenge but I want to be able to cheese it with my gear. WF is a toolbox game. They give you an infinite amount of tools that allow you to deal with any situation.

What you are asking for is a catch 22. Give me challenge but don't take away any of my challenge reducing tools. There`s a reason Warframe up until this point has had very little challenge, because they've never restricted your gear before.

But you all sit in this thread and just whine and complain. Give me Challenge. There is no challenge to be had in Warframe with your current arsenal. Okay they give you something that creates a challenging circumstance. NO i want challenge while still being able to become invulnerable with my operator, and restoring my energy with pizzas, and spinning around the map to instagib 30m diameter of enemies. Newsflash dude, they haven`t done it yet in 6 years, they aren't going to do it in 6 more.

If you don't like how to attain grendel, buy him with platinum. I thoroughly enjoyed the no grind approach, and I found it challenging. The defense felt a little bit slow because I didnt pick the best weapons to bring.

Can you stop with the logical extreme arguments? There's a difference between having gear restrictions and literally being turned into a lv1 chump with NOTHING to use. "Uh I managed to do it with my tryhard clanmates without problem just git gud xd" isn't exactly productive criticism as it is obvious biased bragging. 

If you are a person that's like "Ohh don't change this i loved the challenge everyone is just wanting it on a silver platter don't listen to them!XD" 
1. there's nothing stopping you from playing the game without any mods equipped if you want that challenge
2. just because people are saying these missions are currently an unfun pain in the ass (especially solo) doesn't mean they want it to be trivialized
3. it doesn't take much to "just use your brain" on what warframe(s) work best, just because someone has tryhard friends that they can squad up with doesn't make them intellectually superior to the people who don't like these missions

You can make a challenging mission with gear restrictions without making it a slog that only bored masochist "veterans" and their friends with video game god complexes enjoy.

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10 minutes ago, CephKaron said:

Can you stop with the logical extreme arguments? There's a difference between having gear restrictions and literally being turned into a lv1 chump with NOTHING to use. "Uh I managed to do it with my tryhard clanmates without problem just git gud xd" isn't exactly productive criticism as it is obvious biased bragging. 

If you are a person that's like "Ohh don't change this i loved the challenge everyone is just wanting it on a silver platter don't listen to them!XD" 
1. there's nothing stopping you from playing the game without any mods equipped if you want that challenge
2. just because people are saying these missions are currently an unfun pain in the ass (especially solo) doesn't mean they want it to be trivialized
3. it doesn't take much to "just use your brain" on what warframe(s) work best, just because someone has tryhard friends that they can squad up with doesn't make them intellectually superior to the people who don't like these missions

You can make a challenging mission with gear restrictions without making it a slog that only bored masochist "veterans" and their friends with video game god complexes enjoy.

How is the mission a slog? If you feel like you are a chump with "NOTHING to use", I'd say that's more of a personal problem.  It took less than an hour to do all of them. I consider logical arguments a lot more valid than illogical ones. If you either

1. Cannot complete the mission due to the inability to find a squad capable of completing the challenge.

2. Won't do it because you feel its a slog.

Then go farm plat and buy Grendel. Too logical? So sorry.

I once had to run 23 hours of tier 3 survival to get volt prime chassis. So if you wanna talk about slogs... I've been there. This was a grind free experience and I for one encourage more instances like it. Extreme logic.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

How is the mission a slog? It took less than an hour to do all of them. I consider logical arguments a lot more valid than illogical ones. If you either

1. Cannot complete the mission due to the inability to find a squad capable of completing the challenge.

2. Won't do it because you feel its a slog.

Then go farm plat and buy Grendel. Too logical? So sorry.

I once had to run 23 hours of tier 3 survival to get volt prime chassis. So if you wanna talk about slogs... I've been there.

I'd say having to run lv40+ 20minute+ missions with no gear is a slog. "Oh you just think it's a slog bc you need to git gud xd" isn't exactly a great argument. Neither is "oh I got boned by rng for 24hrs straight so you having to do these boring missions for a few hours isn't a REAL slog". aaand saying "Then go farm plat" doesn't exactly change the fact the missions suck, which is the issue at hand.

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3 minutes ago, CephKaron said:

I'd say having to run lv40+ 20minute+ missions with no gear is a slog. "Oh you just think it's a slog bc you need to git gud xd" isn't exactly a great argument. Neither is "oh I got boned by rng for 24hrs straight so you having to do these boring missions for a few hours isn't a REAL slog". aaand saying "Then go farm plat" doesn't exactly change the fact the missions suck, which is the issue at hand.

You seem like a very reasonable person. I like how you change everything i say into something i didn't say. It makes a discussion quite easy.

Getting a warframe in less than an hour is not something I consider a slog. We can disagree on that point, no problem. Having to use naked Warframes and weapons was something I found challenging. We can disagree on that too, no problem.

What you will most likely never recieve: A challenge while still having access to your full arsenal. Sorry. If you don't understand why that is, there's not much else to be said.

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Just now, Skaleek said:

You seem like a very reasonable person. I like how you change everything i say into something i didn't say. It makes a discussion quite easy.

Getting a warframe in less than an hour is not something I consider a slog. We can disagree on that point, no problem.

How am i changing things you say? You said "If you think it's a slog it's only because you and your squad sucks, or because you can't bother to even play it." LMAO

It took less than an hour for YOU, your experiences aren't universal. Besides, a slog doesn't mean "more time spent" it means the time spent is boring af. 1 hour of watching paint dry is still a slog, even if it's "just" 1 hour.

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6 minutes ago, CephKaron said:

How am i changing things you say? You said "If you think it's a slog it's only because you and your squad sucks, or because you can't bother to even play it." LMAO

It took less than an hour for YOU, your experiences aren't universal. Besides, a slog doesn't mean "more time spent" it means the time spent is boring af. 1 hour of watching paint dry is still a slog, even if it's "just" 1 hour.

Not once have I told you to "git gud" and yet i see you constantly paraphrasing that into your retorts and saying its a bad argument. I'm not here to deal with your inferiority complex.

Like i said, if you feel the missions are a slog, that's your opinion. No problem. I for one am just happy i didn't have to spend an entire weekend farming Grendel parts to obtain him. I enjoyed playing the missions, was no big issue for me. I found it to be a good level of challenge. Challenge: That thing that everyone claims to want? I want them to continue this trend moving forward.

Edited by Skaleek
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1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Not once have I told you to "git gud" and yet i see you constantly paraphrasing that into your retorts and saying its a bad argument. I'm not here to deal with your inferiority complex.

Like i said, if you feel the missions are a slog, that's your opinion. No problem. I for one am just happy i didn't have to spend an entire weekend farming Grendel parts to obtain him. I enjoyed playing the missions, was no big issue for me. I found it to be a good level of challenge. Challenge: That thing that everyone claims to want? I want them to continue this trend moving forward.

Your amount or repetitions of the word "challenge" does not change the fact that it is not actually a challenge. A challenge would be content we have to be good and skilled to overcome with out tools. Here we have no tools and the entire difficulty comes from that factor or taking our earned methods away. Anything that involves mentions of a squad is equally as irrelevant, as the mission is not matchmaking and therefore MUST be measured as solo content. 
Everyone (almost, I guess) wants challenge. This simply was not, and if you think it was, your definition of challenge is simply not the one the rest of the world uses. "GIT GUD" with your vocabulary, mate, or you are missing the point. 
If you enjoy playing without mods: nobody is stopping you from doing it. Just don't try to drag the rest of the player base to your masochistic levels of misunderstanding the word challenge. We enjoy being able to use our brain with a good selection of tools, especially the ones we worked hard for.

 

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4 minutes ago, Har-Vestor said:

Your amount or repetitions of the word "challenge" does not change the fact that it is not actually a challenge. A challenge would be content we have to be good and skilled to overcome with out tools. Here we have no tools and the entire difficulty comes from that factor or taking our earned methods away. Anything that involves mentions of a squad is equally as irrelevant, as the mission is not matchmaking and therefore MUST be measured as solo content. 
Everyone (almost, I guess) wants challenge. This simply was not, and if you think it was, your definition of challenge is simply not the one the rest of the world uses. "GIT GUD" with your vocabulary, mate, or you are missing the point. 
If you enjoy playing without mods: nobody is stopping you from doing it. Just don't try to drag the rest of the player base to your masochistic levels of misunderstanding the word challenge. We enjoy being able to use our brain with a good selection of tools, especially the ones we worked hard for.

 

Haha. I found it challenging. I enjoyed the challenge that DE promised they would put forth. And here is to the future challenges they provide and hopefully they keep it in the same vein as these previous Grendel challenges.

You want challenge with all your tools, I hear you. You've said it ad nauseum. What you don't seem to understand is up until this point DE is either unwilling or unable to challenge us with our entire arsenal available. This is the reality. Cope with it. Challenge. Perhaps the real challenge is to accept there can be no challenge without sacrifice?

Challenge. In fact, i challenge you to suggest a way to challenge players with their entire arsenal available.

Edited by Skaleek
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5 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Haha. I found it challenging. I enjoyed the challenge that DE promised they would put forth. And here is to the future challenges they provide and hopefully they keep it in the same vein as these previous Grendel challenges.

You want challenge with all your tools, I hear you. You've said it ad nauseum. What you don't seem to understand is up until this point DE is either unwilling or unable to challenge us with our entire arsenal available. This is the reality. Cope with it. Challenge.

Challenge. (Your Edit)

Still using it wrongly. Again, repetitions wont remedy that fact, mate.
EDIT: By designing interesting enemies and interesting new missions, possibly even with lore attached. I am not a game designer myself. But, I am also not a doctor, but I see when someone tried to weld a wound together instead of sewing it shut, and I will immediately see that this was done the wrong way^^

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2 minutes ago, Har-Vestor said:

Still using it wrongly. Again, repetitions wont remedy that fact, mate.

Sure.

Edited by Skaleek

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17 minutes ago, Har-Vestor said:

EDIT: By designing interesting enemies and interesting new missions, possibly even with lore attached. I am not a game designer myself. But, I am also not a doctor, but I see when someone tried to weld a wound together instead of sewing it shut, and I will immediately see that this was done the wrong way^^

Okay, so what Im hearing is: you know what you don't like, and you know what you want, but you arent sure exactly how what you want would be made? Its so easy to say make something "interesting" and make something "challenging" but that really doesn't mean anything. Let's say you are a painter for a living, and I come to you and say make something inspirational, uplifting, interesting. The artist would then do something that is true to those qualities for them, are you following me? So DE created this mission because it was challenging for them, and it fulfilled their concept of challenge.

I am asking you to specifically tell me how you would make a challenge for someone like me who owns everything in WF and who's been playing longer than I'd like to admit. This is not an easy task I'm asking of you. So far no one at DE has been able to. Answering "well i'd make interesting enemies that are challenging" doesnt really provide the recipe, you're just saying what you want from the end product, yeah?

We all like lore but we both know lore doesnt provide challenge so im just gonna sweep that away if thats okay with you.

Edited by Skaleek
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And I already told you that I am not a professional game designer, I am a simple consumer. I don't need to know how to exactly do it, but I do know when something is neither satisfying nor shows effort, when it has the telltale signs of bad design. I don't need to be able to write poems or theatrical performances on the level of Shakespeare to know that "Fifty Shades of Grey" is not really the greatest piece of fiction to ever grace a (very unfortunate) piece of paper.
You on the other hand suggest to take the problem of missing challenge heads on a la "Well, they can't do it, so I take the (for me) next best thing, which is painfully crippling the player and calling it challenge." You are, so to speak, taking the burden of designing good content from the developers shoulders and ditch it down the well. If this is considered even an 'ok-ish' piece of mission design, it's could very well be all downhill from here.That might be a slippery slope argument, but developers are people too, the last time I checked, so negative reinforcement in the form of lacking feedback would not help anyone.
 Me mentioning lore was done with intention, not for you to sweep it away. They need to make engaging content, and lore is a part of that. I hate that this is a mission that simply cripples the player, but overall I also criticize the overall lack of imagination and passion this mission design shows. A mission with lore INDSIDE it would at the very least be a much different thing to take in as a player, and maybe it would even have led to someone taking up the mantle of making the rest of the mission actually interesting and challenging. 

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21 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Ok, now please explain me how the lvl41 corpus can disable my mods/operator.

The orokin couldnt do that... and i dont think that any future encounter will disable operators, mods and even the archgun or even the use of items that you should carry on your warframe. I mean how can those enemys do that and the orbmother or any high lvl corpus cant do that? You can block my skills with that god dam bubble... but disable ANYTHING even when thre are no enemys in range? That makes NO sense

The Corpus didn't. The Arbiters of Hexis did. It's the same reason your Revive system -- which exists in the canon and isn't just a gameplay feature -- is disabled in Arbitrations

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18 hours ago, bibmobello said:

This game is tested without mods in mind.

If this was true:

a) Rivens wouldn't exist. Weapons would just be rebalanced and anything below rank 14 weapons (the current max if I'm not mistaken), by the very nature of progression, would become IMMEDIATELY obsolete. If my bold statement was wrong, why would they bother nerfing the catchmoon kitgun? Something either is or isn't the top tier, period. The existence of rivens is NOT just about giving flavour to what weapon you shoot the bad guys with, and if it was there would be some form of scaling upwards the power of lower tier guns WITHOUT scaling upwards the top tier ones too, ie. weapons that were "the same but with better numbers".

b) ASSUMING that it is true, however, it is definitely NOT tested as solo experiences. When someone comes along in 2 months and attempts any of the missions there will be 0 other players to matchmake with, so instantly the challenge is disproportional from the "gitgud" sayers that basically brought along 3 other dudes, randoms or not, to either be more efficient in killing or synergizing with each other's frames' abilities. See other "abandoned" content for examples on how this effect penalizes late-comers / people who don't have friends (or any form of trusted human being) with whom to play the game with.

17 hours ago, bibmobello said:

But it's only to farm grendel. Someone wrote he did solo using revenant but i am not 100% sure about that... Revenant is pretty OP even without mods but you will run out of energy and die without a squad.

I get that some content has to be done with others, I really do, but this is my point. It's not just about having the knowledge AND the collection capable of overcoming the challenge. And if the challenge is not meant to be done solo, give us "index bots" or something when there's no one else to give a hand. Heck, at least let us use the gear wheel to summon specters and specters only if you think stuff like the other consumables (like energy or ammo or whatever) are "too unfair", and dumb them down so they don't use their abilities too often or at all.

17 hours ago, Jeger_Wulfe said:

If you really don't like it, just skip it and spend plat to get Grendel if you want him.

Putting aside the VARIOUS complex psychological needs that I imagine a fair amount of the warframe community has, if the challenge was not made to "challenge" people but rather to dissuade them from attempting the free path and forking out the cash in the form of platinum, well...

Because let's face it: THIS isn't the endgame a part of the community has been asking for. If it was, it wouldn't require you to buy a ticket for 25 vitus essence (which lasts until you actually win) but rather it would become a permanent node on the map for you to just go into and "feel like you were being challenged".

And hey: if YOU think it SHOULD be the endgame, then why don't you actually just strip your equipment of all mods and have that be your endgame? It's right there. Nobody can say otherwise and nobody is going to stop you. Don't forget to play it solo so you don't actually go cramp other people's matchmaking, please. I'm sure DE can implement a (completely optional) mode (with no exclusive rewards) for DarkSoulsInRealLife people like you if you ask them for it.

8 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re insane.

Nothing about those missions look remotely fun. If they don’t change the mission I’m not going to farm him and I’m not going to support DE by buying him if they just intend to do crap like this now.

...Or yeah, only if the definition of endgame does not include the word "fun" in it. These missions are not at all fun, especially those of us in the "forced to solo" position. Oh, and I do spend money in the game for the cosmetics, for those of you out there wondering if I'm just a "freeloader" that does not support the game or whatever other inane arguments you might have, just not on things like unlocking stuff: that's what I play the game for, so I'm definitely not paying for that.

 

TLDR: A challenge has to be fair to be a challenge, not all people can get parties to tackle this with others and design-wise this is not what the community in general wants nor what a sub-section of it desires. Breaking the monotony of the established content is one thing; this whole thing is another thing entirely.

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What I think is that all those saying "this was easy" should try to do all three missions solo. And yes, please try Octavia, or smash Arca Titron into the ground until hell freezes over. I am really looking forward to your videos of soloing these missions...

Doing this in a squad with experienced players or friends using warframes and weapons they already know (albeit without mods) is a fun challenge. Trying to solo the missions is quite horrible, as is trying to do them with players bringing the "wrong" warframes (or not being experienced enough to use what they bring).

There is a logical conclusion to be drawn from this: the REAL challenge is finding three other players that has enough gear and knowledge so that you all four together can turn this into something different and fun.

It's the other side of that coin that pisses people off (NOT having a good squad to handle the challenge with). I tried soloing first, for hours, and it sucks big time (only got the excavation done, altogether probably had more fails in one morning than in the last six months). Then I gave up on soloing and tried chat-PUG for the survival, but 2 out of 4 players went on their own special mission from God and ended up dying repeatedly in separate far off corners of the map, before midpoint one had lost all his lives/revives and the other had ragequit. Gave up on that idea, got some good players together and we did both the defense and the survival on the first try. It was tough, challenging and fun all the way, you really had to fight but it was in no way impossible (getting/having energy is the key, since the abilities are fully ranked even though you have no mods to buff them).

So there are two things in play here, one is the stripping of extra power (all mods & arcanes) which is not a bad idea as such. The other is DE not saying anything, in practical terms setting a lot of players regardless of level up for failing. Repeatedly. Again and again. Instead of actually telling everyone that you really, really need to team up, both to be successful and to have any fun. And that you will be stripped of all mods and arcanes (and not only on your warframe either).

Finally, there is one type of player that naturally steps out of the game universe and reads up on stuff on forums etc. before even trying something. There is another type that try to stay inside the game universe, using skills, tools and experience inside the game (instead of simply copying the experience of others, gotten from forums and the 'tube). This "no mods surprise" that DE pulled punishes the second type, because they have to bash their head against this mission quite a lot of times before they give up and check how others have managed. If there actually was a smart way to do these missions alone, something that everyone just missed, then it would be kind of a joke, (on the players, who didn't figure it out). Instead this is a mission that just is impossible until you give up and step outside the game to read up on it. So while the mission is fine in itself, I do think some of the salt is quite legitimate.

Edited by Graavarg
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I'd rather have missions like this, in which harsh circumstances force me to play outside of my comfort zone until I find the way to succeed, than missions that I can breeze through but have to do 70+ times while praying to the RNG pantheon (like Khora, Equinox, Trinity, Arcanes, Detron, etc.)

This was hard, and it definitely promotes teaming up, but I felt that success or failure, together with the related reward, were ultimately under our control.

After years, there are finally things in the game I have to sweat for, other ones that I have to plan for, and others that I just can't kill. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't want to play OnePunchFrame forever.

Edited by Anarbitrio
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For all persons said something like use your brain and stop complaining: How did you pass these quest if you are alone and have no friend??? So it's easy for play as  2- 4 players but if only you. How can you do??? If some game need many persons just for a normal quest, it is terrible!

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I just love the dev bashing in here 😄 thanks guys!

Anyway, I'm not participating in this "new challenge of 2019" 

I agree that this is nothing but devs out of ideas to make their game interesting.

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If you have taken out this extreme difficulty, I would like DE to be played by all of your team, ONLY. And let's see if they are really going to go far. I hope DE plays it in his next episode of twitch. It can be challenging, but honestly it's not fun and more in SOLO.

This is very disappointing. I do not know if this is an insult to almost the entire community, or that what you really want is to lower people's morale, so that they actually buy it in the market.

Well, you have achieved it with many people, but for me, no.

Edited by Proffebolter

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