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So been trying to find creators of Warframe content that dont fit in one of the 3 following categories.

1. I am tired of X Y Z yet despite the relative young age of the game refuse to accept the team when coompared to other developers just isnt quite as large and should be given the benefit of the doubt

2.. Crap videos about irrelevant and often drastic misinformation that prevents or discourages actual community discussion

3. Meme/Satire none of which is remotely funny as its repeated ad naeuseum ingame and out.

I preface my thread with these three types of content being the majority of what I found at the top of youtube search results. I will not name individuals as in some cases I can while still frustrarted get recent departures from the creator side.

 

I am here today after multiple attempts to find content that would show me moroe then the above and I am saddened by what I have found and came here to raise this and other issues. I support Digital Extremes but also am very VERY angry with the handling of issues I have seen eat at the once great community prior to its growth to its present form. I am not here to defend but to hopefully encourage a discussion that while heated I am sure will show those who may have interest that this community isnt like the countless ones before and full of elitism and entitlement but a place to engage in frank discussion.

I know many of you may view my recent posts and see me as argumentative or aggressive as many have stated before and again but that is born of a genuine fear that this game as great as it is and as great as it could be may be shaped in part by a vocal minority that do NOT represent those who see whats to come but those who see something they arent liking because DE isnt doing what they alone expect and want for and to the game.

  1. Properly clarified EULA/TOS and proper training for support and ingame chat moderators.
  2. Better systems for engaging with support in instances of threatening and aggressive behaviour.

These are of particular concern ingame and on forums as the moderators are only human and mistakes made but often I see blatant trolling and abuse go unpunished and see and experience the whole "they wont do anything so deal" that is ignoroed. I hope that this has been discussed internally for a while and hope that there are ideas in place because nothing I have on that would be deemed constructive given the free to play nature of the game and ease of which you can despite the rules reportedly saying you cant you can remake accounts.

  1. Better community engagement outside of Devstreams and the very rare responses on forums,
  2. Potential rework of the partner system to address the 3 key points at the top of the post.

Community engagement in the early days was miles better then what it is now. Sure we have the Devstreams and while they are nice it would be awesome to see more engagement within forums outside of the rare pre update announce. I mention a potential rework of the Partner system for the reasons stated above as almost every video I watched over the course of today had bar the rare one been showing the game in a patently unfair and ill informed light. This is degrading and encourages destructive behaviours within game chat as well because unless you are on PC the moderators seem to show less concern.

 

I apologise for the wall but this is again frustration driven and while there are some potentially explosive issues here I hope that can be handled with maturity and thought as I KNOW this community can

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Tiburos is a good one, while he makes alot of jokes, his videos are indeed insightfull and full of feedback and valid criticisms.

 

For more serious and formal information tho, you have Iwoply (I hope I spelled his name right) Hes like the video form of patchnotes, insightfull and informative. However he doesnt do reviews, mostly updates on everything related to warframe and has a dedicated museum of old updates and showcases that are no longer in warframe's modern updates.  Good to watch from time to time, also scouts dev replies on twitter and all other places so you dont have to dig for them.

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I want to add one more potentially explosive thought.

Partners who decide to quit producing content should not remain as Partners. This whole i was a partner thing is very anti the intent of the program and while that is merely a personal opinion and one that is quite controversial I do hope to see some thoughts in return. I am not saying those who quit producing content should be removed but those who consistently post content that is showing the game in a negative light with baseless intentional information and is either posted as such or as "satire" I shall not name the one creator for which that is a particular focus and wont answer who if asked.

This community has evolved but allowing aggressively negative misinformation and OPINIONS to exist and dominate the youtube searches is clearly not what the program was designed for and while several creators/streamers did NOT share my views on things not every one was baselessly attacking Digital Extremes either.

Along with better engagement cleaning up that situation would go a far way to soothing my dread for the future of this community and honestly given experiences in mmofps and mmos in general the game too

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Removed posts referencing some partners in particular.

I remind you all that we have a strict "no name and shame" rule on the forums.

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Lol I forgot. But still what I said is still valid. I can't understand why creators don't cooperate with the devs instead of just bashing on the game.

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I love editing videos and making guides, but just as a hobby. I think it would be fun to contribute positively to the Warframe community on this front, but I haven't because I'm just not creative enough to think of continuous video content. What kind of stuff would people want to see? I suspect the partners have just run out of things to make videos about, and so it devolved into criticism and complaining in order to maintain viewership. I don't accept that as an appropriate behavior or excuse, but DE might need to evaluate how to fix their relationship with content creators, like you mentioned, to help find a solution together.

Edited by IntheCoconut

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1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

Lol I forgot. But still what I said is still valid. I can't understand why creators don't cooperate with the devs instead of just bashing on the game.

Most of the time De says they "listen" but they actions they've been taking felt like the complete opposite 

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1 minute ago, IntheCoconut said:

I suspect the partners have just run out of things to make videos about, and so it devolved into criticism and complaining in order to maintain viewership. I don't accept that as an appropriate behavior or excuse, but DE might need to evaluate how to fix their relationship with content creators, like you mentioned, to help find a solution together.

What kind of backwards logic is this? Are we allowed to criticize this game or not???

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Many of those players have covered everything in the game ad nauseam. It's undeniable that updates take longer so this causes talks of "content drought". At that point the only thing left is criticisms on the state of the game, drama, or memes.

However I really do enjoy the videos of a smaller channel named GazTTV and recommend his insightful Warframe videos.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

What kind of backwards logic is this? Are we allowed to criticize this game or not???

Yes but a good number of them do nothing but complain but offer no real solution and keep moaning when there is a change to address things because it changes the meta.

Like the melee change and the Condition Overload nerf. Both of which were good in my opinion.

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Just now, SilvaDreams said:

Yes but a good number of them do nothing but complain but offer no real solution and keep moaning when there is a change to address things because it changes the meta.

Like the melee change and the Condition Overload nerf. Both of which were good in my opinion.

1.Content Creators are not developers, it's not their job

2. Its YouTube what do you expect?

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I think reevaluating the qualifications and thinking about how they can be changed to positively influence content is a good starting point:

Quote

QUALIFICATION CRITERIA

To become a Warframe Partner your channel must:

  • - Create weekly Warframe content
  • - Have at least 2,500 followers or subscribers
  • - Have a history of compelling Warframe content (just so we can check your style)
  • - Be a valuable addition to the Warframe community
  • - Contain high-quality content
  • - Have Two-Factor Authentication active on the main Warframe account. Learn more about 2FA here.
  • - Be run by an individual of 18 years of age or older

 

Your Channel cannot:

Weekly Submissions

You need to create WEEKLY content? Does this seem bananas to anyone else? This doesn't seem like a realistic expectation. It doesn't surprise me that content creators have nothing better to do than complain or make meme vidoes. I love Warframe, but how does DE expect content creators to deliver both quality and quantity in one week if they themselves only push one major update every month or so? 

Have 2,500 followers or subscribers

This is another requirement that just feeds into the pressure to make constant videos to maintain viewership when there really isn't anything new to report on in the game. I'm not a content creator so I don't know how easy or difficult it is to maintain 2500 followers but that seems excessive given that Warframe as an entire category has very small viewership numbers on Twitch.

Those are the two big categories that I think need to be reevaluated. I just don't think these are sustainable, and it clearly isn't promoting the quality part of their criteria that they are are also demanding. This creates an either-or situation. Either your partners create infrequent but high quality content that contributes to a positive community, or you have frequent videos with poor substance that doesn't add anything of value to the community. Neither scenario is meeting the qualifications. DE needs to adjust these numbers so that their criteria doesn't burden and stress their partners, or drive them away entirely.

Edited by IntheCoconut

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

What kind of backwards logic is this? Are we allowed to criticize this game or not???

Sure, criticism is allowed and welcome. I think it can help improve the game. I didn't mean to suggest that it shouldn't be permitted. I just think a lot of viewers are getting tired of seeing nothing but videos that complain about the state of the game. And I think content creators are feeling the pressure to maintain a weekly schedule of content and a following of 2500 users. You can read why I think this system doesn't promote a good community in my post above and why it isn't fair to warframe partners.

Edited by IntheCoconut

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8 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I love editing videos and making guides, but just as a hobby. I think it would be fun to contribute positively to the Warframe community on this front, but I haven't because I'm just not creative enough to think of continuous video content. What kind of stuff would people want to see? I suspect the partners have just run out of things to make videos about, and so it devolved into criticism and complaining in order to maintain viewership. I don't accept that as an appropriate behavior or excuse, but DE might need to evaluate how to fix their relationship with content creators, like you mentioned, to help find a solution together.

There are 3 issues at play here and they are as follows

  1. The majority of existing content creators and streamers that have a following have been around a reasonable timeframe.
  2. The content drought they complain about is not remotely a thing given the nature of the game design and the incredible variation of weaponry and untapped synergies
  3. Lack of creativity on the part of creators.

Issue 1

The vast majority of negative posts by creators of late are from those who sunk multiple years and in at least 1 case nearly the entire time the game has publicly existed This leads to difficulty for the creators to create fresh content as DE has always taken a slow burn 1 big update per year cycle that is in almost every case MUCH faster then biggerr AAA P2P or B2P mmo titles such as Guildwars 1 and 2 FFIV and World of Warcraft.

Issue 2

The supposed coontent drought I hear endlessly spoken about DOES NOT EXIST. The game as of Fortuna has multiple options for content including WoW Machinima shorts such as those created by Oxhorn in early vanilla. There is more to the game that almost every creator/streamer doesnt touch and if youd like some of those ideas I will pm you a few as I plan to use them myself in various forms.

Issue 3

As I mention above there are ways to create content that extend be yond actual gameplay. Many creators/streamers exist and I hope many exist that may yet appear that create various out of game content for example I personally with a long effort have been trying to access and engage with Digital Extremes over a legitimate toolkit for video developers that is similar to the one Oxhorn used to create his vanilla wow shorts. The toolkit would allow creators to use models in programs such as Unreal 4 to create videos that would be either lore relevant or new fun creations AKA Red Versus Blue in the Halo engine as another example.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

Many of those players have covered everything in the game ad nauseam. It's undeniable that updates take longer so this causes talks of "content drought". At that point the only thing left is criticisms on the state of the game, drama, or memes.

However I really do enjoy the videos of a smaller channel named GazTTV and recommend his insightful Warframe videos.

Thats the issue those who HAVE covered everything think there is nothing left and that with a bit of creativity and engagement with Digital Extremes is patently untrue.

2 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Yes but a good number of them do nothing but complain but offer no real solution and keep moaning when there is a change to address things because it changes the meta.

Like the melee change and the Condition Overload nerf. Both of which were good in my opinion.

EXACTLY. And this was not a thread to point fingers saying people are unfairly attacking creators/streamers it was made to find ways that can prevent such burnout and engage the community in creative endeavours within the game as well as outside.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

1.Content Creators are not developers, it's not their job

2. Its YouTube what do you expect?

Ok you are either clearly ignorant of what the definition of a content creator is and have not read what is involved with joining the partner program or your intending to derail the thread not buying into that beyond the following:

1. Content creators exist because they have had or continue to have a passion about a particular subject. In the case of games sure the Developer is for the most part the majority of source material but it is also a skilled creators job as it were to create content at times when in particular MMOs and MMOFPS may be slow in creating new experiences.

2. No no and no that is one helluva bad argument and yet again deflection from the original intent of the thread and thus not warranting further thought.

Edited by Hyroncore

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17 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

Sure, criticism is allowed and welcome. I think it can help improve the game. I didn't mean to suggest that it shouldn't be permitted. I just think a lot of viewers are getting tired of seeing nothing but videos that complain about the state of the game. And I think content creators are feeling the pressure to maintain a weekly schedule of content and a following of 2500 users. You can read why I think this system doesn't promote a good community in my post above and why it isn't fair to warframe partners.

This was the intent of the thread.

If what you said about DE expecting a level of activity to remain partner then that is wrong. Most programs of that nature I have come across DO NOT force CCs into that treadmill.

I get that pressure is bad as well I would like to add that its a choice each creator made when joining and they felt they had a means to contribute and in some cases failed under the pressure and then left. those are not the ones I find aggravating its the ones who felt the pressure but publicly slammed Digital Extremes for percieved failings while not having a clue about paths forward and in many cases not even bothering to TRY and engage with the company at least from what I can see and those that did felt shut down and that fueled further dissent.

 

My feelings have always been a system akin to the CCP program where a number of EVE Online players are flown to Reykjavik Iceland to CCP headquarters and engage with the developer and report back to the community. Sure that system had as all doo its critical failings but it led to a level of engagement that worked. I am not suggesting Digital Extremes flies community members to Canada yearly but if there was some method to engage that way and ingame with a system similar to the EVE ISD team which has proper training which to my knowledge the Guides did not it would create a situation of engagement that at present surpasses the current form.

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1 hour ago, Hyroncore said:

Partners who decide to quit producing content should not remain as Partners. This whole i was a partner thing is very anti the intent of the program and while that is merely a personal opinion and one that is quite controversial I do hope to see some thoughts in return. I am not saying those who quit producing content should be removed but those who consistently post content that is showing the game in a negative light with baseless intentional information and is either posted as such or as "satire" I shall not name the one creator for which that is a particular focus and wont answer who if asked.

So more thought-crime punishment... Seems reasonable, lol

Though I do agree some of the partners seem to be spiteful at this point, and that is just not helpful to anyone.  Totally agree with you there.

Edited by (PS4)segulibanez65
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11 hours ago, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

So more thought-crime punishment... Seems reasonable, lol

Though I do agree some of the partners seem to be spiteful at this point, and that is just not helpful to anyone.  Totally agree with you there.

Well as i said it was a thought in regards to how many have been or are continuing to behave but given the potential pressure I can see why they might stop producing content it just seems very anti the entire program for them to be allowed to retain that level of status.

If any partners could actually conffirm the speculation on how much cntent and the frequency that it is expected that would help but eh,

 

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12 hours ago, D20 said:

Removed posts referencing some partners in particular.

I remind you all that we have a strict "no name and shame" rule on the forums.

If I just want to recommend some partners is name and shame too? 0 critics towards them, since they probably fit on the OP filters... Genuinelly want to know

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1 hour ago, xHeretic said:

If I just want to recommend some partners is name and shame too? 0 critics towards them, since they probably fit on the OP filters... Genuinelly want to know

No? if suggesting people thats different to what was removed. I am not a mod so cant go beyond that ofc?

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25 minutes ago, Hyroncore said:

No? if suggesting people thats different to what was removed. I am not a mod so cant go beyond that ofc?

Iwoply: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa0YFfBIDXLW_SuaR1zGHdA 

mcgamercz: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbv6z1qCD7-a6wLMQaddthA

leyzar: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXeubDV2dwI-V9FO9oiDu3A

They are the only 3 partners I follow because most of their content are based on data and facts.

Edited by xHeretic

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

Many of those players have covered everything in the game ad nauseam. It's undeniable that updates take longer so this causes talks of "content drought". At that point the only thing left is criticisms on the state of the game, drama, or memes.

However I really do enjoy the videos of a smaller channel named GazTTV and recommend his insightful Warframe videos.

Gaz, also a friend of mine, has suspended his video production and game play after testing this update. Plz check his announcement. 

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We have frequent devstreams which is miles beyond what a lot of game companies do! Sure, there's always room to improve, but this is already pretty good community engagement and communication.

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16 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Yes but a good number of them do nothing but complain but offer no real solution and keep moaning when there is a change to address things because it changes the meta.

Like the melee change and the Condition Overload nerf. Both of which were good in my opinion.

Then you have others that give criticisms and valid opinions/fixes and are ignored (i.e butchering his name here, ratehlius) he considers the vauban 'rework' exceptionally underwhelming.  No excuse from DE on that one to drop the ball.

16 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

Partners who decide to quit producing content should not remain as Partners.

While I see your point, hard to produce content on a game that doesn't receive updates.. consistently.  I mean, before The Old Blood, what exactly would you be able to report on besides the odd weapon or frame being released with many weeks, possibly months of no video uploads in-between?  Not everything has to be strictly professional, every partner personality has a finesse that appeals to a demographic of Warframe's community. Some like Rathelius, others hate Shy, some like lifeofrio etc.  It is what it is, and trying to alienate or assimilate them into something they aren't, might end up backfiring harshly.

15 hours ago, Hyroncore said:

The supposed coontent drought I hear endlessly spoken about DOES NOT EXIST. The game as of Fortuna has multiple options for content including WoW Machinima shorts such as those created by Oxhorn in early vanilla. There is more to the game that almost every creator/streamer doesnt touch and if youd like some of those ideas I will pm you a few as I plan to use them myself in various forms.

I'd argue this isn't true, it's mainly psychology but bear with me here. 

There are a few forms of content, the kind you do over and over and don't care of the reward. 

Then there is content that you do solely for the reward. 

While there are other niches and slight addons (playstyle, warframes, weapons etc.) everything can fall in to one or both categories. (I enjoy survival and like kuva, so kuva survival fits in both, as an example).  I think the problem here is some are entertained by doing the same thing for nothing, killing time. Others want something to do that is beneficial, making plat, unlocking something new. But the only 'infinite' source here that matters for those things are kuva/endo, or relics if you want to change things up. 

Some players won't care about vauban/ember reworks, so to them they didn't get content in that regard. Others who care about those frames got content. Some care about endurance, others don't go past sortie level. Warframe has a very broad demographic of players that it interests, but the depth of each 'style' of play varies greatly. If you're here for scaling rewards for example, wanting to test yourself but also be rewarded for it - few things do that (as an example).

 

I would say that warframe has enough depth for a few dozen hours of each 'category', but beyond that, it's per person dependant. I 100%'d fortuna, did k-drive, done achievements, did the orbs got my ephermas etc. Friends of mine didn't get to the 2nd orb, definitely didn't touch k-drives etc, because that isn't fun to them. 

In my opinion, one of the safest ways of making what I call "generalized content" (appeals to broad range of players), is something that is varied enough to not be predictable, something to come back to that won't be too difficult to remember if you've taken a break, but is fun and gives worthwhile rewards.  DE could take it a step further by having players start at different 'tiers' depending on what they want. Start at 20-40 for "casual" players who just want to experience the content, 60-80 for more focused players who want a bit more to deal with, and 100-120 for more veteran/geared players. Make a couple prestige rewards that look nice to entice players to go out of their comfort zones (say get to 150lvl enemies for a unique syndana that isn't a 17th copy of something we already have).  

As a sidenote: One reason why I enjoyed raids back in "the day" in WoW was because you could run the raid if you enjoyed it, if you wanted to gear your character or if you wanted to push yourself (heroic), then they had specific achievements with unique rewards (mounts, pets, etc.) some harder than others to "show off". I think it would be a wise thing to make more unique cosmetics to help keep players invested in new gamemodes or activities. What sucks is when the gamemode isn't fun and doesn't give very good rewards (defection), or doesn't give worthwhile rewards but is fun (disruption).

 

I hope you understand my point though, hopefully I can bring more examples later (3am). 

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