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IsaoTenshin

A Melee Main's Disappointment

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As a background, I nearly exclusively use melee weapons on all the frames I play. Specifically Limbo with the Nikana Prime and Baruuk with a Zaw polearm. Through months of building and testing, I had a fairly viable, conventional(Non spin-to-win) play style that was fun and rewarding to play.

However, it took me a whole hour and a half to recognize what type of play style is incentivized, and that is heavy attacks, almost exclusively, actually.

Before, light attack combos benefited greatly from things like: Combo counter multiplier, Blood Rush, Condition Overload, combo counter decay reduction(Naramon/Body count). Now light attacks either do not benefit from these at all, such as the multiplier and decay reduction, or get very little boosts from, concerning Blood Rush(Which applies now only to base crit chance and now has diminishing returns) and Condition Overload(Which also now gets diminishing returns).

This, on paper and in practice, makes purely light attacking(comboing) more effective at lower levels(Due to base damage buffs across the board), but much less effective as enemies scale up. The solution now to high level and high armored enemies is: Heavy Attack spamming.

Heavy attacks not only benefit from the combo multiplier and combo decay reduction, but also more effectively from Blood Rush than light attacks do now. However, heavy attacks use 100% of your combo counter to execute. The solution to this? Combo efficiency mods and Zenurik, allowing you to only use ~10% of your combo counter when heavy attacking. Not only does this allow the spamming of high damaging, AOE(At least to polearms), 12x multiplied and crit boosted swings; whenever you execute a heavy attack, regardless of hitting anything, your combo counter decay timer is reset. That's right, Zenurik is now better for melee than Naramon, the supposedly melee-oriented focus tree.

So my rivened polearm zaw got it's ranged reduced from 18m to 8m, and now performs worse at high level UNLESS I heavy attack spam, then it works decently but sucks all of the fun out of the style I had made work before. And I am bitter.

 

 

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Can confirm.
Got through over ten discussions with people that tried to explain what the patch notes actually mean (still claiming that changes weren't explained properly and a lot of info is missing), how the word "combo" changed its meaning entirely, how the mods look like the word "channeling" simply got autoreplaced by "combo" without checking how it affects the mod's function, and how much better things are right now, overall. Regardless of the efforts, actual gameplay offers a very different feeling. While the stance animations are much easier to achieve and control than before (when modded speed could've messed up your reflex and autoblock entirely stopping the stream of actions), the further you go, the more you need to resort to heavy attacks, which are still as clunky as they were before.
The elegant ballet of regular melee animations that mowed down wide areas gradually becomes slow heavy slams of individual enemies.
And it looks bad. It feels bad.
Even with tonfas, which are overall an epitome of perfection.
Granted, it'd be somewhat easy to tolerate these peeves by manually adjusting things to your liking with mods and external helpers such as arcanes and/or focus school branches, it fell in at the same time as the layers of rng new content introduced and keybind-related bugs, so now, I am bitter as well.
This has been a biased reply.

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How dare they try to make the game more fun and balanced for every weapon instead of mindless kids with spin attack macro's killing everything on screen.

Edited by Lucidess
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My playstyle is different, I guess. But I'll drop off some of my experience here as well. Most of my weapons were buffed(I use Fist, Nikana, Nunchaku, Hammer, Tonfa, Sword and Shield, Gunblade, Machete, Dual Sword and Greatsword melee types), I like the way new stances work, range was pretty much doubled on everything, but even then I can spot some problems.

Combo multiplier relying so much on a focus school and efficiency mods feels like a mistake on part of DE. I simply don't have enough place in builds to fit a combo efficiency mod. It's not melee 1.0 times when installing a charge speed and a charge damage mod was enough to have a decent melee. Combo multiplier doesn't build as quickly as they said it would, at least not as fast as it should considering you waste ALL OF IT on a single attack unless you gimp yourself into using efficiency mods or have enough luck to roll a perfect riven with that stat.

I would say that I'm upset that I can't use heavy attacks without losing efficiency of my light attacks, but I'm not. Having to spam clunky and, frankly, ugly heavy attacks, some of which have weird momentum doesn't feel fun or fluid at all. These heavy attacks are so bad I don't want to see them lmao. And since it's not just stats, it's animations that I dislike, I have very little hope of this situation changing for me any time soon.

Also, they still have fixed my baby Arca Titron and it still does a normal slam attack instead of an AoE electricity proc. So my reply is biased as well.

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19 minutes ago, Lucidess said:

How dare they try to make the game more fun and balanced for every weapon instead of mindless kids with spin attack macro's killing everything on screen.

Did you even read this topic? No one said anything about memestrike.

As far as the new changes go, I'm legitimately disappointed in most stances. Given how long we've waited for this, I was expecting most/old stances to be completely reworked with new fresh combos but no, old stances with only w combos still have only, heavy attacks are only worth using for a few weapon types and not at all for others, a lot of stances still slow you down in their supposed forward momentum combos.

Damage calculations have been gutted it seems and that would be fine if it was done across the board and enemy health & armor scaling was changed alongside but no, it's only limited to the melee system and it feels bad.

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Although I am generally quite pleased with the changes overall, I do see your point with regular attacks. 

Whilst we need to bear in mind that the goal of this update is to prevent its infinite scaling (because it causes a whole host of problems of its own), but it does have an unusual feeling. Then again, it somewhat falls into a similar place as guns, no? Spongey enemies and whatnot. It makes sense that a now-normalised melee will work on the same rules as the guns, and very powerful enemies do have a tendency to be a bit spongey for guns as well

 

I think the next step, now that we have a more consistent power level in terms of our weapons, is for DE to buckle down and start working on the Damage system, which Steve has indicated they will be over the next while, seemingly starting with armour.

 

(oh, and fixing stances? I like the new input system, but tons of stances don't use all of them for some reason.)

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I do not know what to describe this ... should I agree with you ?

- It's so damn obvious like they making game for little KIDS only now. This phase is terrible and disaster with combo affects .
It's like made for who only play with lv 50 unders. At high levels the ONLY thing useful about their change is the combo stances, yet 1 good thing can't handle 3 bad things.

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19 hours ago, Twilight-Knight said:

I do not know what to describe this ... should I agree with you ?

- It's so damn obvious like they making game for little KIDS only now. This phase is terrible and disaster with combo affects .
It's like made for who only play with lv 50 unders. At high levels the ONLY thing useful about their change is the combo stances, yet 1 good thing can't handle 3 bad things.

So you can't spam a single button and win the entire game without putting in any effort anymore, but somehow it's made for kids now? Hahaha

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