Why Continuous Weapons Are Being Left Behind?

[yuujisakakibara]

It's Apple

[RedDirtTrooper]

I wish they would make them work, just so the spectre would be a little more viable. I wanna use my zap gun.

[DecoyCode]

snip

(and for high difficulty i mean a level 120+ ancient at the very least)

snip

Everything blows &#! at that level. Also, using auto fire macros is a developer oversight which is entirely unintended. Flux is still monstrously good. Synapse has DPS that beats out acrid and Stwraith. Spectra isn't a problem of continuous fire, its a problem of poorly balanced stats. Ignis is a death-machine.

 

A lot of issues with high levels will, hopefully, be fixed with damage 2.0. Your thread is also in general discussion as opposed to weapon feedback, where it should be for a topic of this nature.

[TezeretFoxtrot]

So its your serious claim that the Synapse needs a fire rate mod?

Yeah, no one's taking your thread too seriously.

Had you posted this pre-Synapse, woulda been a whole different story.

 

 

Everything blows &#! at that level. Also, using auto fire macros is a developer oversight which is entirely unintended. Flux is still monstrously good. Synapse has DPS that beats out acrid and Stwraith. Spectra isn't a problem of continuous fire, its a problem of poorly balanced stats. Ignis is a death-machine.

 

A lot of issues with high levels will, hopefully, be fixed with damage 2.0. Your thread is also in general discussion as opposed to weapon feedback, where it should be for a topic of this nature.

 

not enough people read feedback forums, most users just look up general discussion

 

funny anyway, i opened a thread in weapon feedback a month or two ago, but apparently no one sees this as an issue, if moderators do not delete old thread it is still there, with a couple bumps of mine and then nothing

 

no one reads feedback other than people complaining about buffs and nerfs, but i would be glad if anyone was willing to move to weapon feedback section for the sake of visibility from DE

 

shall we?

 

EDIT: found them

general discussion - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/94753-flux-rifle-fire-rate/?p=1063061

weapon feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/94139-fire-rate-mods-on-flux-rifle/?p=1055276

 

both from 6 weeks ago

most likely none of the repliers had a flux, everyone just argues about spelling and/or speed of light

 

EDIT2, didnt notice the one in genral discussion was bumper 10 days after i gave up on it, but doesnt really matter, weapon feednack one died for good, no one goes read there to make any difference

Edited September 28, 2013 by TezeretFoxtrot

[bobafetthotmail]

I don't believe people have missed the most obvious part of this argument. These 'light' weapons have travel time that is slower than bullets. Realism or logic has absolutely no place in this game, just say +fire rate mods adds a more powerful pump or something. No logical reason to argue why the mod doesn't work on those weapons.

If we want to go technical the "travel time" of these weapons in-game is something like 0 or very close, the whole beam is a single "bullet" object (yeah, 60 or so meters long) that is created and destroyed at the ROF of the weapon.

 

This is just a trick because the game engine is S#&$. Other games do the same due to game engine limitations.

 

That said, how can you say that there is no logical reason to argue that the mod does not work with those weapons? Ah I see, you claim that realism and logic have no place in the game. You may think it's smart but makes no sense.

 

Realism is "close to real" not Real. And any fiction by definition has to be realistic somehow, because humans won't comprehend easily a completely alien world with totally alien laws, nor enjoy a game that they cannot comprehend. Hell, most people can't comprehend how stuff in space behaves, go figure if we do something more extreme.

 

So there are still walls, gee I can walk on them in Warframe, teleport too. Yeah but I cannot fly at will, move through solid objects, nor teleport so long distances that I can bypass levels entirely. 

So there are still weapons, gee I can use plasma weapons that in real life are nonsense (not possible at all, ever). Yeah but I cannot kill S#&$ with my thoughts without even looking at them from an arbitrary distance.

 

And you cannot say logic does not belong. Otherwise how do you know that with a higher ROF you make more damage? Maybe in this game where logic does not apply having a higher ROF will mean you have a lower DPS, who knows? Maybe the Devs didn't allow that mod to be used to save us from disappointment.

 

--------

Back serious, I'd say the FLux and the Spectra need a significant buff, not to get compatibility with mods that make no sense with the kind of weapon.

 

What next? The Exploding arrow mod?

 

The exploding arrow would make some kind of sense though, a powerful enough laser would be able to vapourize enough matter to create grenade-like effects at target.

 

 

soma has the highest damage per bullet of all automatic rifles, and is among the highest ROF guns in the game that means high ammo efficiency, AND a huge dps potential,

 

I see why you want to kill logic, you don't know how to use it and are envious.

 

Higher ROF means low ammo efficiency.

 

Efficiency means using as few of X as possible to reach objective.

 

High ammo efficiency is thus low ROF. The most ammo-efficent weapon in the game is the Ogris, by a fair margin.

 

Frankly, too much ROF is not beneficial. You have downed one ancient. Nice. But there are three others that are on your tail, and you now need to reload. Good luck surviving until you have killed them all.

 

What most weapons need is a base damage buff.

 

Or a total system rework, possibly the famous Armor 2.0 that will perhaps happen (or not)

Edited September 29, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[honeybadger]

Ah, yes, because one mod doesnt affect them means they are completely broken and useless.

 

Come on now, just accept it as a feature of a continuous fire weapon.

[TezeretFoxtrot]

I see why you want to kill logic, you don't know how to use it and are envious.

 

Higher ROF means low ammo efficiency.

 

Efficiency means using as few of X as possible to reach objective.

 

High ammo efficiency is thus low ROF. The most ammo-efficent weapon in the game is the Ogris, by a fair margin.

 

Frankly, too much ROF is not beneficial. You have downed one ancient. Nice. But there are three others that are on your tail, and you now need to reload. Good luck surviving until you have killed them all.

 

What most weapons need is a base damage buff.

 

Or a total system rework, possibly the famous Armor 2.0 that will perhaps happen (or not)

something went terribly wrong about this quotation, as your second quote was from a post of mine, not CloudPies'

 

anyway, dont get fooled, i explained it already a few posts back

 

rate of fire controls damage per unit time

damage per bullet controls, well, ammo efficiency

 

efficiency, straight from the dictionary: accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort

your effort here is the number of bullets spent for one kill. damage per bullet is not influenced by rate of fire. it depends only on your serration/elements/multishot. ROF mods do not change damage per bullet, so they do not change the number of bullets used for that one kill, and therefore they dont change ammo efficiency. ROF only influences how long it takes to use up those bullets.

 

yours is a common misconception, based on the axiom that for balance's sake, weapons must be roughly able to output the same total damage per unit time. as a consequence, low damage-per-bullet guns fire quite fast, while slow weapons usually pack a lot of damage in each bullet.

 

ROF may, eventually, influence "ammo economy", which is YOURS ability to not run out of ammo, but which has nothing to do with "ammo efficiency" itself, and can easily avoided with a 7-mod-points-worth ammo mutator and ammo consumable

 

offtopic/ an example about this axiom comes to mind, im not sure i can talk about other games on this forum, but if you take a look at a ME3 multiplayer weapon spreadsheet, 80% of guns of a single class have an almost identical sustained DPS, despite having very different damage-per-bullets and rates of fire. however, in that game each weapon had a different spare ammo pool, and ammo boxes were spread throughout the map, so talking about ammo efficiency was pointless there, only concern was DPS, and it was quite balanced accross the board with very few exceptions

Edited September 30, 2013 by TezeretFoxtrot

[Sixty5]

The reason I don't feel bad about abusing the Uncapped fire rate on continuous weapons is because fire rate mods don't work with them. 

 

If DE fixes that then I'll have to stop abusing bad game mechanics.

[Alohoe]

erm... lets leave physics out of these forums, shall we?

its a game we are talking about, a game with space magic, zombies and survival missions on planets/moons' surfaces (during the event but still happened)

 

so lets take this on a purely ludic perspective

they need to be able to benefit from fire rate mods, otherwise i demand a popup message to be displayed everytime you try to equip them on such weapons, much like what happens when trying to fuse an equipped mod, "this mod will have no effect on this weapon, equip it anyway?"

+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 30, 2013 by Alohoe

[Tenzek]

The thing is these weapons are balanced around not having the ability to use the fire rate mods. If you look at it from the perspective of, "they could do more damage if they could get that fire rate bonus," it makes it look like a big disadvantage. If you look at those weapons compared to other weapons, they compare well even with the other weapons using rate-of-fire mods.

 

Synapse and Flux are two of the best primaries in the game. What is there to complain about? If they got such a huge buff as being able to use those rate mods, they'd have to be nerfed in balance to prevent them from being far and away the best weapons in the game.

 

 

i am damn theoretical physician and i know better,

 

Nice. A theoretical "physician".

 

1/10.