Have anyone finds heavy attacks useful?

[Razorv2]

Title. I personally find them garbage. Slow, unreliable and drains combo. Dont bring amalgam organ shatter mod thing into argument, it breaks all of the "fluid combat" vibe on this update. We made melee fluid but you should use heavy attack which is forced and sluggish. Big no from me. Range these attacks covering is bad too. Damage is also bad. Like is there anything left to see this thing as positive change? 

Though I dont want to complain without making some suggestions. So :

- heavy attacks should cover more area on a cone,

( not like slide attack. But If we could get area same as Block area with weapon range, that would make very significant difference.) 

- make heavy attack animation speed scale with attack speed.

- Decrease drain on combo counter WITHOUT zenurik focus school. 

Post your thoughts here and I will carry this on to feedback. We can make this so it does not sound like single voice rather an community voice. I will honor your name on the post I will make on feedback by mentioning in that post. 

[DrivaMain]

I found heavy slams to be a lot useful than regular heavy attacks ones because of 360 degree AOE and Lifted CC. I believe the purpose of heavy attacks is to get rid of “heavy units” while regular melee attacks clear out hordes and grunts. 
 

I can’t say they are good or bad because this is still new and I am still on the “getting used to” phase.

[IggySnow]

Heavy attacks have never been useful. so them not being useful now makes no difference.

I do wish they were useful though. Like even if its a lot of work for the animators, i think every stance should have its own super cool heavy attack, that's kind of cinematic like the mercy kills are. but these heavy attacks are charged up from the combo counter so they have huge range and damage. Almost like every stance has its own "ultimate" move that takes out every enemy around you/ or every enemy that's 30m in front of you, or it make a big AOE zone that does dot, etc, etc.

Because right now heavy attacks do pitiful damage for giving up your entire combo counter, and if im going to sacrifice the thing i just spend a minuet or 2 building up it better do something cool and worth while.

[Uhkretor]

23 minutes ago, Razorv2 said:

I personally find them garbage. Slow, unreliable and drains combo.

True, but 1-hitting a lvl150 Nox Eximus for 900k damage is fun.

[mrbubblepants]

heavy attacks require thinking, and that hurts. So no blue, yay!!! 

[XzWasPzX]

Useless, unreliables, clunky. 

[TinFoilMkIV]

1 hour ago, HerpDerpy said:

Heavy attacks have never been useful. so them not being useful now makes no difference.

...

I'm going to go ahead and be that guy. This statement is factually incorrect. There was a time when the meta was nothing but heavy attacks. Granted that was ages ago so I don't actually fault you for not knowing that. Think like around U7 or something.

Otherwise I generally agree. I don't think they're useless, but they could use a little bit more. I have found a couple weapons that are alright with em. Scythes have, I believe, guaranteed bleed procs on heavy attacks. Which can be pretty nice. Corrupt Charge also gives base combo count allowing for heavy attack spamming.  I wouldn't say it's practical, but it's fun with some weapons.

I've got a Caustacyst,, which shoots stunning corrosive waves with it's heavy attacks. I was going to go Corrupt Charge on it, but I ended up rolling a riven with 98% combo efficiency meaning the heavy attack usually only costs me -1 from my combo counter. Stuff like that makes it kinda good, though that's obviously a very specific case.

[DarkMarkX]

By the way, the heavy attack efficiency passive in the Zenurik tree currently doesn't do anything (assuming it's supposed to do the same thing as focus energy and reduce the amount of combo you lose from a heavy attack), at least in the simulacrum. Heavy attack with focus energy on: 220 combo drops to 88. Heavy attack with only zenurik node, 220 combo drops to 0. The wording is different between the mod and the zenurik passive, so that's a bit weird too.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

The aerial heavy slam isn't too bad the ground one is awful.  Configured the new melee system and combo counter around heavy attacks to some degree it seems like they probably should have revamped it to make it useful.

 

I think it would be pretty good if the heavy attack was double or triple the maybe even higher multiplier not just on your dmg but on the range depending on how high your combo counter was and it should be alot faster.  That could make it useful.  The way it is now your still better off keeping your 12x counter for blood Rush/gladiator they will need to up it's usefulness quite a bit to compete with those.

[tyreens]

It is nice for the first time you see it but after that is useless. Like most of the new mechanics or content lately.

[Teljaxx]

I have found that heavy attack effectiveness varies quite a bit between weapon types, since they all have different animations. Some are good for hitting one target, some are good for hitting everything around you. The Tatsu actually has a two hit heavy attack combo which can be really nice.

Damage also heavily relies on having a high combo. If you just swing a heavy attack with no combo, it doesn't do much. But with a nice big combo multiplier, they can really hurt. So if you want to use heavy attacks, mods that increase combo gain, and slow decay can really help.

And, Amalgam Organ Shatter also really helps to make it much easier to hit with heavy attacks, since it speeds them up.

[tris1]

Personally find them useless except for maybe using a life strike mod on a melee weapon but even that's just pushing it. Seems to annoying to use and not worth thinking about to use it often. (however only tried a couple of weapons)

[MorradiX]

I just tend to forget I have heavy attack tbh......not going to be used much I suspect... 😕

[rockscl]

have been actually dying when drying to use my lifesteal, as the time passes i have inclined more to avoid using lifesteal because of how slow it is to perform a heavy attack

Edited November 2, 2019 by rockscl

[Genitive]

They should make it so we are immune to knockdowns and staggers when doing charge attacks. It would make them much more reliable. Other than that, they should cover a wider area around us and maybe even not consume combo counter when we don't hit anything with them.

[DoomFruit]

The only time I've ever used one was by accident when trying to figure out how I'm supposed to throw a glaive now. They're exactly the same as the old charge attack (the same windup animation, the same windup sound, the same attack animation), but apparently with a damage multiplier based on combo counter.

But in any case, I can't use one when I have a gun active, so I don't use them at all.

[rockscl]

hace 2 minutos, Genitive dijo:

They should make it so we are immune to knockdowns and staggers when doing charge attacks. It would make them much more reliable. Other than that, they should cover a wider area around us and maybe even not consume combo counter when we don't hit anything with them.

i was thinking about several of those concepts, but cant we expect it all to become a modding optionality? heavy attacks are in a very strange position right now, and we should note that, probably, this rareness is due to how factually fake they are, theres no such thing as charged attacks in melee weaponry, its more about the user´s weight and technique, speed happens to increase energy ( e =mc2 ), not the other way, to me it seems like they will have no choice but to rework the idea of heavy attacks form the fundamentals

[Genitive]

3 minutes ago, rockscl said:

i was thinking about several of those concepts, but cant we expect it all to become a modding optionality?

I have no problem with modding them for speed and area covered, but as long as we can get interrupted while doing them they are not worth using. Knockdown resistance at least should be a baseline for all charge attacks.

[Annnoth]

Tatsu has a really useful charge attack so I've been using that a lot. It's very horitzontal, the follow up is a spin and forces slash procs so it's great for just being surrounded as well as heavies.

[Vox_Preliator]

A useful and reliable way to handle heavy units quickly and easily.

[trst]

I have a feeling a lot people have just been using them with their usual builds and haven't tried specifically building for them. They can be made to be enough to one-shot/efficiently kill off trash units while having heavy attacks to one-shot heavy units.

Combo efficiency specifically shouldn't be underestimated; Reflex Coil plus Focus Energy (the latter can easily replace Voltic Strike) cap you at 90% efficiency which makes heavy attacks only consume 10% of your combo. Which means they can only take at most 22 combo per swing.

As well Quickening is far better than vanilla fury, worse than primed, but can still beat out Primed Fury if one's build wipes the floor with everything but heavy units. More combo from one-hitting trash to more easily one-hit heavy units.

Then slapping on Killing Blow for more damage and swing speed rounds it all out. If your weapon in question is crit viable then Amalgam Organ Shatter could be used as well and would still be viable with Blood Rush when using combo efficiency.

 

It isn't better, objectively, than the old system sure. But there are more viable options both to use and build for now. And anyone who still doesn't like them can just not use the system since you aren't forced to use heavy attacks.

[Dragazer]

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

I have no problem with modding them for speed and area covered, but as long as we can get interrupted while doing them they are not worth using. Knockdown resistance at least should be a baseline for all charge attacks.

Old charge attacks and some melee attacks used to have knockdown/stagger resist. That suddenly disappeared about a year ago.

[Arkandae]

Il y a 4 heures, Razorv2 a dit :

Like is there anything left to see this thing as positive change? 

Arbitration disruption.

[RedDirtTrooper]

Nope. I used the heavy slam for the grendel missions with arca triton, but t hat was because of the stupid no mod modifier. Otherwise, I can honestly say the new meta is all about fast AoE weapons. CO, Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds, all the crit damage mods, body count if you aren't using naramon, fill the last few spots with whatever damage is optimal, no reason to bother whatsoever with other damage, crit chance, or status chance mods, including 60/60 mods, just pretend they don't exist. Spam E as fast as you can.

You can mod for heavy attacks if you want, but they'll never compare to the above build thrown on a zaw pole arm, lesion, or orthos prime.

[Teljaxx]

36 minutes ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

Nope. I used the heavy slam for the grendel missions with arca triton, but t hat was because of the stupid no mod modifier. Otherwise, I can honestly say the new meta is all about fast AoE weapons. CO, Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds, all the crit damage mods, body count if you aren't using naramon, fill the last few spots with whatever damage is optimal, no reason to bother whatsoever with other damage, crit chance, or status chance mods, including 60/60 mods, just pretend they don't exist. Spam E as fast as you can.

You can mod for heavy attacks if you want, but they'll never compare to the above build thrown on a zaw pole arm, lesion, or orthos prime.

Because following the meta is the only way to play. Because killing the highest possible level enemies is all that matters. Because maximum DPS is the only important metric. Because its not possible to use a weapon just because you enjoy it.

Seriously. How many of the people that are crying overnerf on the new melee are really just upset that the mobs that they can one shot aren't quite as absurdly high level anymore? How often do you even need to do that? Even without a Riven, most melee weapons can still handle the highest level enemies that you typically encounter no problem.

This melee update is the first step on a very long road that might actually one day lead to this game having some semblance of balance. And removing the absurd scaling from the system is a big part of that. Now you don't have to spend nearly as long waiting around in endless missions just to get to the point where you weapons aren't completely overpowered. That is a good thing.