Ember is hot Garbage

[ElectroGamer]

En 2/11/2019 a las 10:11, Midas dijo:

^^ How do you suggest it be fixed?

bring back old ember =D

[DroopingPuppy]

1 hour ago, ElectroGamer said:

bring back old ember =D

'Old' means Feb. 2018 or before, right? Not the Mar. 2018 to Oct.2019's Ember, which is effectively removed from the game by DE's malicious intention, right?

[DroopingPuppy]

And, no changes to the flawed mechanism still? Do DE really think that Ember can run her combination without the infine pump of energy?

[Djego27]

7 hours ago, Genoscythe said:

Ember is a mobile meteor storm that annihilates anything she looks at, at any level, in any mission where enemies are not ability immune. Ember is a goddess of death and destruction and crashing people's PCs with exaggerated particle effects. I can take her into kuva siphons and arbitrations now.

Yes, some things like the clunky micromanagement can pull you down, and the energy cost of fireblast should definitely decrease by the percentage of your heat meter to be able to easily vent, and some people would also like her minimum damage resistance to go up a bit. But calling her hot garbage is pretty hyperbolic. She's around 300-700% more effective than before on level 50-200 missions.

Ember only is 300-700% more effective if you never used guns build around accelerant(in that case is a massive 80%+ damage nerf, like doing L100+ now with the  a dragon key) what scaled a lot better then her new Inferno, given that shooting stuff at L100 is vastly faster then spamming it to death with Inferno(same as it was with WoF, that however at least did CC). Saryn was a similar rework that only got praise be people that did not know how toxic transfers worked, what did give the only Saryn crazy AOE burst damage what was more practical for next to all content outside L100+ armored targets then the new spore is, especially outside of ESO.

[Nezha_Rose]

I think that if energy regen sources would and if eventually be nerfed, Ember will take the worst blow here. 

 

And then shell need another rework for the rework. 

[zoffmode]

5 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Ember only is 300-700% more effective if you never used guns build around accelerant(in that case is a massive 80%+ damage nerf, like doing L100+ now with the  a dragon key) what scaled a lot better then her new Inferno, given that shooting stuff at L100 is vastly faster then spamming it to death with Inferno(same as it was with WoF, that however at least did CC). Saryn was a similar rework that only got praise be people that did not know how toxic transfers worked, what did give the only Saryn crazy AOE burst damage what was more practical for next to all content outside L100+ armored targets then the new spore is, especially outside of ESO.

Never really understood why people liked Accelerant. Much rather play Rhino, Chroma or Mirage than Accelerant Ember and have a massive headache with all loadouts to mod for fire...

Ember always been primarily a nuker for me and I'd dare say most people. It's sad that a specific build is gone but overall she is much better.

EDIT: well Fireball Frenzy is apparently still a thing though. not sure how useful it is yet

Edited November 6, 2019 by zoffmode

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

Never really understood why people liked Accelerant. Much rather play Rhino, Chroma or Mirage than Accelerant Ember and have a massive headache with all loadouts to mod for fire...

Ember always been primarily a nuker for me and I'd dare say most people. It's sad that a specific build is gone but overall she is much better.

EDIT: well Fireball Frenzy is apparently still a thing though. not sure how useful it is yet

ember became a heat buffing weapon platform when they removed overheat for accelerant long time ago. when they added accelerant ember gained nice usage of abilities and weapons. people who like accelerant are the same people who like sonar the same people who like roar, the same people who like vex armor. she was the second most powerful buffer next to banshee.

both ember and banshee were my go to when it came to buffing and DE removed one of them because people cant handle using the parkour system and their full loadout to survive. she is now a power spamming micro management press 4 to win frame. its absolutely ridiculous.

flash accelerant and fireball frenzy allowed me to enjoy playing her as a support which they took away.

Edit: look what the line of sight changes to her 3 and 4 have done. yeah shes hot garbage.

Edited November 6, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

you know what happens when i go to equip ember to use? some how (and i think this might be a bug) it equips banshee instead /s

[zoffmode]

19 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

ember became a heat buffing weapon platform when they removed overheat for accelerant long time ago. when they added accelerant ember gained nice usage of abilities and weapons. people who like accelerant are the same people who like sonar the same people who like roar, the same people who like vex armor. she was the second most powerful buffer next to banshee.

both ember and banshee were my go to when it came to buffing and DE removed one of them because people cant handle using the parkour system and their full loadout to survive. she is now a power spamming micro management press 4 to win frame. its absolutely ridiculous.

flash accelerant and fireball frenzy allowed me to enjoy playing her as a support which they took away.

Edit: look what the line of sight changes to her 3 and 4 have done. yeah shes hot garbage.

Honestly to me it sounds more like complaint about removal of augment rather than rework one. Maybe they were afraid it'd be too OP but honestly no reason it can't return after some testing.

As for line of sight change, I prefer it to range nerf. 4 still goes through walls anyway so it works out. Ember is pretty damn fun to play now.

[EinheriarJudith]

6 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Honestly to me it sounds more like complaint about removal of augment rather than rework one. Maybe they were afraid it'd be too OP but honestly no reason it can't return after some testing.

As for line of sight change, I prefer it to range nerf. 4 still goes through walls anyway so it works out. Ember is pretty damn fun to play now.

accelerant was still a buff for the team. the augment just added more damage and gave the team the casting speed buff she got from the base ability. getting press 4 to win goes against the very thing DE has been trying to do which is?? removing press 4 to win/lazy gameplay.

power spam isnt fun to me and imo she is lesser because of it.

Edited November 6, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[AdunSaveMe]

On 2019-11-03 at 12:06 AM, ShortCat said:

completely changed her essence and left only the fire theme as a reminder of her past self

How does this make any sense? She's literally still a fire frame. She actually has more fire now.

If Ember's "essence" was just "press 4 and make things around you die while you eat a sandwich" then that's not a theme worth keeping.

[zoffmode]

7 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

accelerant was still a buff for the team. the augment just added more damage and gave the team the casting speed buff she got from the base ability. getting press 4 to win goes against the very thing DE has been trying to do which is?? removing press 4 to win/lazy gameplay.

power spam isnt fun to me and imo she is lesser because of it.

Actions speak louder than words. DE was never against nuke frames, they're just against afk farming. Also they're absolutely horrible at following their design philosophy anyway. So what they stand for really doesn't matter at all.

I enjoy the new gameplay. Lots of people do from what I saw. You don't. A bunch of people also don't like it, but you can't please everybody. There are also still plenty of still existing choices with old buffer playstyle. What's important is that she's more potent and viable without reliance on a niche augment and gameplay.

Yeah her 2 energy drain can be annoying and needs adjustement. Yeah I also think it's a shame her buffer augment is gone. Community should be petitioning for Accelerant augment to return in some way honestly, but priorities are always screwed in these cases.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, zoffmode said:

Actions speak louder than words. DE was never against nuke frames, they're just against afk farming. Also they're absolutely horrible at following their design philosophy anyway. So what they stand for really doesn't matter at all.

I enjoy the new gameplay. Lots of people do from what I saw. You don't. A bunch of people also don't like it, but you can't please everybody. There are also still plenty of still existing choices with old buffer playstyle. What's important is that she's more potent and viable without reliance on a niche augment and gameplay.

Yeah her 2 energy drain can be annoying and needs adjustement. Yeah I also think it's a shame her buffer augment is gone. Community should be petitioning for Accelerant augment to return in some way honestly, but priorities are always screwed in these cases.

i can agree with this. ive moved to banshee for my ember fix.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

accelerant was still a buff for the team. the augment just added more damage and gave the team the casting speed buff she got from the base ability. getting press 4 to win goes against the very thing DE has been trying to do which is?? removing press 4 to win/lazy gameplay.

power spam isnt fun to me and imo she is lesser because of it.

The problem with old Ember is that she had 3 buff abilities if you count the augments. The fireball augment, Accelerant and its augment. All of them give +% fire damage, so they're kind redundant kit-wise. They kept the fireball augment so Ember can still buff Allies, and Accelerant's loss is kinda (but not fully) compensated by heat procs reducing armor by 50%, which was heat damage's main problem, and one of the main reason why Accelerant existed in the first place.

Ember's Inferno is not OP because it is hindered by line of sight, unlike Saryn's Miasma, and you need to cast it every wave of enemies, while WoF was just cast and forget for like 3 minutes, use energy pad and repeat.

[ErzaScarletTR]

I will miss Ember and this game, R.I.P. 😥

[Zourin]

Ember is good. Not fine, not OP. She's good. I've found she works best as a rage/adrenaline engine with high power strength. Throw on some HP sustain like life strike and she's able to hold her own at higher levels.

 

[ShortCat]

20 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Doesn't change my statement that non full strip is still beneficial and due to how often she's casting the armor will be gone anyway.

I guess you missed my post with some simple Armor calculations. And how Armor strip in general works.

20 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Cool.  Except the only frame on that list that's going to even be close at lathering enemies in heat procs/status is wisp.  Don't see how you can pretend to boast these other frames as a viable strat for specifically going for heat procs/status and then complain about line of sight.  All of these frames need LoS to do that as well and their way of spreading it is a lot less AoE compared to ember.

As far as i know Exalted Blade, as well as Gauss' Thermal Sunder have no LoS. Nezha can cover tilesets with Firewalker. Wisp is actually one of the lesser fire users on this list and you mention only her?

20 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

So now it's suddenly a negative if my 4 kills something?

If you kill something instantly with 4, it does not benefit her passive.

20 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

And her 1 while it doesn't technically get a boost from her 2 does have it's own built in combo counter that can be a 14x combo if you charge up your fireball after hitting the 8x combo cap.  It also procs the on fire status effect.

This is a waste of energy. And you honestly mention charged Fireball? With 2.5 seconds charge time? And base 1.5 seconds combo window?

20 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

So suddenly it's alright to mention fireball as something you care about? I thought ya'll were adamant about ignoring the ability because it's garbage. -rolls eyes-  Again.

Fireball Frenzy! The Augment, not the skill. Big difference.

21 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I don't see how that's a response to what you quoted.

Oh, you did not get many things.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

20 hours ago, Djego27 said:

 Saryn was a similar rework that only got praise be people that did not know how toxic transfers worked.

While you're feelings about Ember's current state is understandable to a degree it's making statements like this that it makes it difficult for people who aren't on the same circle jerk as you to take you seriously.  Probably chill out dude.

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

I guess you missed my post with some simple Armor calculations. And how Armor strip in general works.

No, I'm fully aware of how armor stripping works.  Nothing you've stated counters either point i've made here.  Which again, having any armor left means you do extra damage with the proper elemental combo (meaning partial armor does have a use,) and that due to the amount of casting you're doing the armor will be gone anyway.  And we haven't even factored in how heat procs weaken armor.  You're just being hyperbolic here.

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

As far as i know Exalted Blade, as well as Gauss' Thermal Sunder have no LoS. Nezha can cover tilesets with Firewalker. Wisp is actually one of the lesser fire users on this list and you mention only her?

Gauss's ring shrinks and only procs status on initial cast.  Unless you're making a very highly unorthodox build there's no way you're going to be constantly and consistently procing heat procs in an AoE more than Ember.  I mention only here because it's a lot easier to turn the beam on and flail it on your screen than turn it off to apply status then to reliably spread status through out the map in any practical sense for the other 3 warframes you mentioned.

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

If you kill something instantly with 4, it does not benefit her passive.

Yes I know this.  Still doesn't change that you complain about her killing potential and then say it's a bad thing for her to kill people.  You're basically going out of your way to slap down anything about the kit because you're upset.  Not because you're raising legitimate counter points.

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

This is a waste of energy. And you honestly mention charged Fireball? With 2.5 seconds charge time? And base 1.5 seconds combo window?

Yes because I actually use fireball currently.  I see no reason not to especially when it's basically cheap cc that will also melt armor.  

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Oh, you did not get many things.

Ha! Funny.  I apologize for wasting both our time here it seems.  I just won't reply anymore for both our sake.

[DroopingPuppy]

7 hours ago, Zourin said:

Ember is good. Not fine, not OP. She's good. I've found she works best as a rage/adrenaline engine with high power strength. Throw on some HP sustain like life strike and she's able to hold her own at higher levels.

 

Only if her flawed mechanism is refined. I think that the basic idea seems not so bad, but the mechanism of heat meter and energy spent of Fire Blast making her not functional properly.

[Djego27]

On 2019-11-04 at 11:39 AM, DroopingPuppy said:

That's just the low level's solution(not to mention about Equinox) but it doesn't save her in the high level.

Man, I was enraged by killing Ember by the false charge and I am keep using Equinox Prime after making her ever since, And Equinox Prime is my tool of the retribution for the injustice what DE have done. Before then, I was mainly use Volt(Prime) and use Ember occasionally but I am use her mainly on tier 3 to 4, and Volt was actualy the low level solution for me. But, they blamed Ember by the false charge of 'low level cleaner' and simply removed her from the game, so they must see how to 'ruin the low level' actually. DE have the responsibility for the consequence.

And, I am also think that current mechanism of Ember is flawed too. Its design requires the pump of energy to be functional. Perhaps they design her to be work with a Trinity with Energy Vampire by the minimum requirement? Else the position where energy orb is spawned in the Simulacrum?

But, it is, simply better than before. At least she can survive on the high level, and able to cause the damage against the enemy. I doubt it is possible to making her even worse with something that was intended to be crippled, though.

Well the ability to survive with Ember mostly came down to power strength(what affects how effective the CC of your 4 was) the frequent use of accelerant(basically if you get shot you did press 2) as well as status weapons that put targets into fire CC from the first shot onwards(what also made Ember incredible strong against armored targets at any level, given that after remove armor you shoot cloned flesh with lots of fire damage). As for damage Ember, assuming you did look at weapons for accelerant scaling and mod around it, Ember did fairly comparable to high level Chroma builds at what point killing stuff was never a issue. My Mara Detron did 91k damage single shot, removed armor and broke aura protection at the same time what was actually considerable better then what chroma can do with the gun. This was also before arcanes, cat buffs, Madurai focus, Fireball Frenzy or utilizing the damage buff from shooting through the fireblast flame ring. Even with Fireball Frenzy the gun lost 60.000 damage per second without accelerant, where the old Ember got her scaling for higher levels from. Given that both WoF and the new Inferno do not kill quick at high levels(especially non armored targets that scale higher by raw HP like Infested), you are basically relay on guns/melee like you did before, however at a much slower pace, given you lost what made Ember a very good weapon based frame.

A key issue of any frame at higher level when it comes to survival is for the most part damage that will kill you quicker than you could react to it, produced by DEs scaling enemy damage that was designed around star map levels years ago as well as enemy accuracy what is much higher against host players(what DE fixed in U17 where it was caused by changes for archwing, but it did creep back into the game). Something that DE should have solved a long time ago, instead of giving everybody damage resistance, death cheat mechanics or plain god mode what makes even novice players literally can not die until L80.

 

 

[Djego27]

20 hours ago, zoffmode said:

Never really understood why people liked Accelerant. Much rather play Rhino, Chroma or Mirage than Accelerant Ember and have a massive headache with all loadouts to mod for fire...

Ember always been primarily a nuker for me and I'd dare say most people. It's sad that a specific build is gone but overall she is much better.

EDIT: well Fireball Frenzy is apparently still a thing though. not sure how useful it is yet

Because it did gave Ember the same weapon damage as Chroma(better in some cases, a bit worse in others), on a frame with good AOE CC and AOE damage for lower levels. Yes you had to mod weapons different, same as on Chroma or the pre rework Saryn, however that made the frames more interesting for me, rather then being a drawback.

Well Fireball Frenzy is worth a 100% fire damage per 100% power strength, what is fairly low compared to 250%, that worked on all fire damage on the weapon and what you added with aguments, what was with my 206% power strength build and flash accelerant 1200% fire damage and more(basically like adding 13 90% fire damage mods to weapons build around the ability).

[ShortCat]

On 2019-11-06 at 3:50 AM, AdunSaveMe said:

If Ember's "essence" was just "press 4 and make things around you die while you eat a sandwich" then that's not a theme worth keeping.

Ember had unique interaction with fire element, as she could not just deal some fire damage, but increase all fire damage, including weapons or other fire damage sources. This interaction is gone.
It is also funny, that Ember is now an actuall P42W Frame. People run around and let meteor showers rain. You cannot go and eat a sandwich though, as you have to press 4 every second.

[Excelion-Skyclaw]

Ember from AFK frame turned into a frame with lot of micromanagement, definitely more than necessary 😄 Yes now she feels way stronger and more impactful. But she does need little tweaks. She is definitely now in the better half of the WF roaster. Anyway doubt DE would search in a thread with title 'bla-bla is garbage' for constructive feedback of any value 😄 

[000l000]

Fireball

First, get rid of charge mechanics unless one is using the augment mod. This charge mechanics basically sucks, one can't aim at all while channeling when using a controller anyway. Dull stuff has to go. Buff damages accordingly.

Second, halve the cost upon successive casts (just like they did with Atlas, which made sense tbh), spamming this power can be interesting especially since damages are scaling quite well.

Remove headshots (Headhosts shouldn't even be possible with such attacks) but increase AoE range slightly (2m is way too short).

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2019-11-06 at 9:03 AM, zoffmode said:

Never really understood why people liked Accelerant. Much rather play Rhino, Chroma or Mirage than Accelerant Ember and have a massive headache with all loadouts to mod for fire...

Ember always been primarily a nuker for me and I'd dare say most people. It's sad that a specific build is gone but overall she is much better.

EDIT: well Fireball Frenzy is apparently still a thing though. not sure how useful it is yet

Because, she never was a nuker at least before the recent update. At least around recent 4 years she doesn't. Her actual position before the recent update was area DOT aura frame, and it and nuker are the both sides of a coin - that is totally opposite.

And, Accelerant was great. It was only bad because the other abilities are not able to make noticeable gains for a year and about a half of a year, but before Mar. 2018 it was a capable addition to decent World on Fire - because she was NOT a nuker.

Also, because Fireball doesn't generates area of fire now, you better ignore it.