Kuva Lich system is extremely anti-newbie

[844448]

Just now, ILOHARTA said:

forced

Did you know you can avoid this by not killing the larvling? I for sure going to clear every single node under the lich influence to avoid losing a lot and collecting murmurs

[TheGuyver]

Just now, 844448 said:

Did you know you can avoid this by not killing the larvling? I for sure going to clear every single node under the lich influence to avoid losing a lot and collecting murmurs

Obviously you're wrong and this is 100% forced. As we, the player, cannot contain our kill boners for long enough to skirt around and avoid killing one mob in our never ending bloodlust for maximum AoE room clearing and blending potential. /s 

[98Octane]

3 hours ago, mrbubblepants said:

its supposed to be anti newbi though. Yes a newbi can end up in a misson where 1 spawns and get wrecked, but that happens with stalker aswell. By the time u can even spawn a lich you have spent a few days/weeks/months learning how to play.

stalker can be killed by team mates, lich cant be  and stalker doesnt steal your stuff, which is the problem not that oh ' the lich pummeled me '

[98Octane]

30 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Did you know you can avoid this by not killing the larvling? I for sure going to clear every single node under the lich influence to avoid losing a lot and collecting murmurs

Going to?? u have your lich yet? 150 thralls for each lich 

[98Octane]

29 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

Obviously you're wrong and this is 100% forced. As we, the player, cannot contain our kill boners for long enough to skirt around and avoid killing one mob in our never ending bloodlust for maximum AoE room clearing and blending potential. /s 

people dont even spare the simaris target and they r gonna spare the larva.. specially saryns and embers etc 

[3rdpig]

I went into a mission last night on Jupiter, what's that normally, level 15-20? It was my Lich controlled area and I've "killed" him three times now. I was getting level 75-100 Grineer enemies and some of them were pretty tough. I had one Lich survival on Neptune where the game sent 3 level 92 Toxic Prosecutors and two level 90 Nox's after me. I didn't have my best weapons so I emptied my Grattler into them and couldn't take them down. I pretty much ran from them and they chased me around the whole map. It was actually pretty funny, but they'd destroy a noob team.

[Teljaxx]

1 hour ago, PyreFox said:

Wow that escalated quickly to "it'll end the world" lol get real man, Warframe has survived every content release. No, the game will not die cause its actually still a good game at the core and DE changes direction relatively fast. There are still sooooo many long time players still in the game, its fine mate, the sky aint falling.

Yeah sure, no one believes the boy who cried wolf, until they're all being eaten by wolves. Obviously this isn't going to completely ruin the game overnight. But if DE keeps going in this direction, then it will inevitably drive away an unsustainable amount of players. And, just because the game hasn't died yet, doesn't mean it never will.

DE already has a history of adding challenge in the worst places. They keep adding "challenging" systems that not everyone can access to places that everyone needs to be able to access. This ends up excluding players from important parts of the game, which can very easily discourage them from playing at all.

Plus, this whole elitist attitude of "Oh, this system isn't meant for plebs. It's only for us veterans." is just sad. Its also harmful for a F2P game, because they always need as many players playing, and more importantly paying, as they can get. So excluding anyone for not being "good enough" or whatever is a bad thing. Unless, of course, you  are both willing and able to bankroll this entire game by yourself? Are you up to that challenge?

[Darklord_Tou]

Ah here we go again... pretty sure DE gonna cave in few days to all this rants and gonna nerf the hell out of it... and thats why you cant have challenging stuff on this game..

Still there is some issue here that larvling can spawn on low level mission... so if i were DE i would just change few nodes to higher level like 70+ and keep it on those mission only.

[3rdpig]

31 minutes ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Ah here we go again... pretty sure DE gonna cave in few days to all this rants and gonna nerf the hell out of it... and thats why you cant have challenging stuff on this game..

Still there is some issue here that larvling can spawn on low level mission... so if i were DE i would just change few nodes to higher level like 70+ and keep it on those mission only.

They'll either nerf the lich, his buddies and the enemies in his controlled areas, or they'll move the starting level up to 40 or so.

[(XBOX)Ashen Rust]

Who'd of thought. A game mode meant for late game players not freindly to new players. Seems like it's working as intended..... 

[844448]

6 hours ago, 98Octane said:

Going to?? u have your lich yet? 150 thralls for each lich 

150 thralls is nothing compared to old times where I need to murder thousands of grineer just to get an orokin cell

[Tenno76856]

Probably need to raise the level needed before the larvaling appears say 40 or 50

[Test-995]

They are trying to address new player experience.

They want to make it worse.

[Ephemiel]

10 hours ago, mrbubblepants said:

Yes a newbi can end up in a misson where 1 spawns and get wrecked, but that happens with stalker aswell.

I didn't know Stalker would steal your loot and get stronger the more he kills you.

[Blexander]

3 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

I didn't know Stalker would steal your loot and get stronger the more he kills you.

He only gets stronger if you attempted to execute him without the proper mods. You can literally ignore him and finish the mission, because he can't chase you properly, nor interfere with the objectives. If you die in any other way, he just dips like Stalker does. Just don't try to kill him without the correct mods, he won't rank up and he stays contained on 1(rank number) planet(s).

As for the loot,

It's not like it's lost forever. You get ALL of it back when you kill him.

[98Octane]

50 minutes ago, 844448 said:

150 thralls is nothing compared to old times where I need to murder thousands of grineer just to get an orokin cell

ya old times they are gone, just had two missions while clearing eris where MR0 had  his lich attacking him twice in a row, dont know how he got the lich but pretty sure he taxied to saturn somehow for orokin cells and now lich is chasing him evrywhere.. thats fair?

we were all surprised to see a MR 0 with lich but hey ....

Edited November 3, 2019 by 98Octane
meh

[Fl_3]

I see people saying that this content isn't for new players and is for veterans only.

If that's the case, why is it so mind numbingly easy to complete? Seriously, the only barriers you have are the RNG relics and the tedium of actually farming the murmurs.

If you have a half decent build, it's only the RNG that will hold you back.

This would be a great time gated event, but as a permanent edition to the game it needs more content and a hard lock out for the people who aren't interested it this content.

[Siegecraft]

how can some one be a newbie in this game if u have played for more than a week u already know  all the things u ned to know its not like the game is a level system  where player that have played have a advantage  and  if some one who played for an hour ya  would say its bad for newbie

man its funny when someone says newbie iguess this r the new type of player i heard of casuall  afk player man this is funny

[Troll_Logic]

It's supposed to be.

 

[DingBawls]

I agree that the Lich system is not newbie friendly and maybe,as has been stated it is not meant to be. That is good, something new for long standing players to get their teeth into cant be a bad thing.

So with that in mind I really think there has to be an "opt in" mechanic of some sort which means players have to consciously decide to trigger the whole process of killing a larvae. That way any player who doesnt want to participate in the storyline cant be forced into it by accidently killing the larvae. This could be something as simple as having to kill the larvae with the new parazon spike.

Putting the level up from 20+ to say 40+ would not work as I know a lot of players that are MR 5 to 10 who can solo 40+ missions. Personally I am not one of them, I am a very unskilled player which is why I play mostly solo or with a friend who is lower MR than me but a lot better player. I for instance cannot survive in any mission on the Kuva Fortress. Yes I have cleared them from the star chart but it took me an age and help from clan members who had to constantly revive me. I dont do public matches for that very reason. I dont feel that having players game flow interrupted by my getting downed every 10 seconds is fair or fun for anyone.

I am not a newbie at WF, in fact I am a founder, so I really do understand the mechanics of the game. I am just crap at it. Many more skilled players will most likely say if I am that bad I shouldnt be playing, which is an opinion I totally understand. However, up until now I have got a lot of fun out of WF and I dont bother anyone else or impact on their game.

Suddenly I find myself in the position of having to avoid 20+ grineer missions so I dont accidently kill a larvae which will start me on a path I dont want and certainly will never be able to complete. Again, I am experienced enough in the game to know how to avoid becoming involved whereas a newbie player may not realise the consequences.

Some reference has been made to the Stalker who turns up or the G3 or even the syndicates. Not quite the same because apart from killing you once and then leaving, they dont steal anything and players dont need to farm relics or anything else to kill them. Also they dont scale if you dont beat them or take over the star chart.

Having played WF from the start I know that DE will make changes to the lich system. When and how is the question.

In my opinion, all it needs is an opt out, or rather an opt in. I will never be opting in but I would never expect it to be nerfed just so that it came down to my skill level.

[Keiyadan]

the thing i saw the days while farming the relics for the mods the lich so i can combat him a friend of mine was doing it in the same group and his relic got stolen by his lich so no relic for him then he tryed geting void traces to make the relics more worth well they got stolen too well 18 out of 22 or something like that i mean for a newb that has encounterd one lich it can make it even worst to get rid of him

[Avienas]

12 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Ah here we go again... pretty sure DE gonna cave in few days to all this rants and gonna nerf the hell out of it... and thats why you cant have challenging stuff on this game..

Still there is some issue here that larvling can spawn on low level mission... so if i were DE i would just change few nodes to higher level like 70+ and keep it on those mission only.

Difference between challenge and just creating a bully system, If the system can literally interfere with your gameplay, it needs a SOLID reason to allow such a thing to be in the game, then just some shiny weapon for shanking the thing dead finally. Which getting all your stolen resources multiplied and returned back to you, plus throwing in a huge hock of kuva, since the whole thing is centered around KUVA, would certainly make the endgame thing actually rewarding and worthwhile.

Plus does not help that Kuva liches are not a optional thing, people could easily accidentally kill the thing and unless they intentionally are gonna avoid completing the war within (which means they can`t really do much in eidolon hunting and other similar content if they do so), people are not going to be fans of the thing.

Creating an annoyance is one of the worst steps a game can do, unless it was in the game in the beginning to start with, plus for lower players, it might be a good idea for D.E. just to force the kuva liches are limited on their levels based on a player`s mastery rank or something, so its not dealing with a bunch of high level enemies, harassing you on certain maps. But this is clearly me ranting at how a new content should provide rewards, emphasis on the S, not just singular things, but multiple items that are a part of what said content is about. While content that actually has a PUNISHMENT system against players, they need to get an extra chunk of goodies on top of the first batch, to really make up for being forced to `play` said content, if one wants to get rid of the annoyance, even if they can get a fancy weapon once they do, Which requires the usual bunch of grinding, except 5 times instead of the standard 3-ish to get all the mastery it can provide, plus when you finally get that perfect version of the weapon and likely stock variants of the same weapon for `certain content.`

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Avienas

[Keiyadan]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Darklord_Tou:

Ah here we go again... pretty sure DE gonna cave in few days to all this rants and gonna nerf the hell out of it... and thats why you cant have challenging stuff on this game..

Still there is some issue here that larvling can spawn on low level mission... so if i were DE i would just change few nodes to higher level like 70+ and keep it on those mission only.

your are able to choose you own difficulty dont blame the ones that dont want that just because your to lazy to do something yourself about your own difficulty

Edited November 3, 2019 by Keiyadan

[No1NParticular31]

12 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Ah here we go again... pretty sure DE gonna cave in few days to all this rants and gonna nerf the hell out of it... and thats why you cant have challenging stuff on this game..

Still there is some issue here that larvling can spawn on low level mission... so if i were DE i would just change few nodes to higher level like 70+ and keep it on those mission only.

I had a clan mate earlier complaining that his Lich was stealing ALL of his relics as fast as he could get them. Meaning it was impossible for him to get the mods. I never heard back if he managed to get any or not. I think he finally logged off in frustration. If the Lich is stealing all of the relics before you can open them, then that isn't a challenge, it's impossible. To have a semi-newbie end up with an unkillable loot thief version of stalker isn't going to add "fun" to anything.

Luckily I heard this complaint before I got a Lich (still haven't) so I am farming to get all 8 mods before I even get a Lich so I don't have to worry about stolen relics trying to get the mods. I currently have 6 of the 8 possible mods.

I do like the idea of making the larva spawn only on Sedna though (currently needs Saturn +), but it might be wise to also add a MR requirement, like maybe 10 or so.

I do also like the idea of a way to opt out (or better yet make it an opt in once you kill a larva). The reason for this is even if you are MR27 at some point you ARE going to everything you want from the Lich stuff, so you stop getting Liches and give all your mods away to clan mates still working on it. So what happens when one day doing NW or helping a clan mate you accidentally kill a larva b/c it got in the way and you hit with AoE (maybe with Saryn, Equinox, Octavia, or just a random AoE weapon) and now you HAVE to refarm it all even if you don't want to and would get nothing out of it. I know none of us are to that point yet, but I can totally see it happen.

[SayikVindal]

20+ missions is too low. 40+ missions make more sense. This is NOT a new or mid player mechanic. This is a mechanic for end game players, content which they certainly deserve, but should not be foisted on low and mid level players.

Stalker is one thing. But I thought the Nightwave fights were brutal and just plain mean to new players....this is far worse.

We need an opt out. At this stage I have zero interest in this mechanic. I might have interest in the future, but this is not something that should be forced on players.

Edited November 3, 2019 by SayikVindal