Kuva Lich system is extremely anti-newbie

[SordidDreams]

More like extremely anti-player.

[98Octane]

4 hours ago, Reakacemrz said:

how can some one be a newbie in this game if u have played for more than a week u already know  all the things u ned to know its not like the game is a level system  where player that have played have a advantage  and  if some one who played for an hour ya  would say its bad for newbie

man its funny when someone says newbie iguess this r the new type of player i heard of casuall  afk player man this is funny

yes newbie 100 200 hours doesnt make you veteran, i have 5100+ hrs and i still consider myself learning every day , since the game is always changing, 

 

7 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

I see people saying that this content isn't for new players and is for veterans only.

If that's the case, why is it so mind numbingly easy to complete? Seriously, the only barriers you have are the RNG relics and the tedium of actually farming the murmurs.

If you have a half decent build, it's only the RNG that will hold you back.

This would be a great time gated event, but as a permanent edition to the game it needs more content and a hard lock out for the people who aren't interested it this content.

not every new player can clear lvl 75 enemies for thralls, heck lot of players i have seen have high MRs by lvling stuff but no build

[George_PPS]

17 hours ago, --Aegis--MR9 said:

Its supposed to be anti-newbie, extremely. Its meant for vets and hardcores, this thread shows that this update got the job done!

Except that many vets and hardcore players are taking hiatus or have stopped playing the game because of the very bad new melee system. It gets the job done to alienate many players and lets us realize that the fruits of any hard work or grinding will be taken away or nerfed to the ground. 

[earthdoesgaming2]

are you really complaining that de doesn't release new player friendly content? this is literally the one thing they have been focusing on since plains of eidolon

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

16 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

I am in favour of any hardcore mechanics DE wants to implement: what I don't like is that I am forced into playing some content, which kinda contradicts the very concept of game. If the content is good, why force the player base? The only result you obtain from such a decision, is to annoy those who support your company.
Honestly, that doesn't look smart to me.

I'm fine with newer players getting their butt kicked by something especially if it only bothers you once in awhile. What I'm not fine with is new players having their resources that unlike people like us, they actually need messed with until they deal with it. That's harsh.

17 hours ago, PyreFox said:

Anyone who rushes to TWW deserves to feel they went too fast, I like the idea of Kuva Liches taking them for a ride.

Having their progression slowed by resource theft though?

19 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

You can create a Lich in any level 20+ mission. Yet, to be able to get rid of the Lich, you have to be able to consistently complete level 70~80 missions with extra strong enemies. And even if you can take on those missions, just the sheer amount of time, and luck, it can take to get rid of a Lich is ridiculous. So it is entirely possible to be stuck with the constant resource drain they incur for quite a while, whether you like it or not.

This whole thing is both anti-newbie, and anti-casual. And that might be fine, if it was not so easy to accidentally get stuck with one. But as it is, I think this could very easily end up driving away all but the most dedicated, long time players, and slowly kill the game.

Literally the resource drain is what concerns me the most.

19 hours ago, --Aegis--MR9 said:

Its supposed to be anti-newbie, extremely. Its meant for vets and hardcores, this thread shows that this update got the job done!

"This community is the best it's not toxic at all"

19 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

The war within unlocks sorties wich are "end game activity" while I understand what quest it self can be complited rather very early in terms of player progresion wich like mr5 , I totaly disagree with what lich should be made new player friendly mostly because its end game content ment for veterans and not for new players .

I do however think were should be a way to get your stolen goods wiht out need of killing or converting lich.

I think the lich being able to steal your resources to begin with is questionable.

19 hours ago, soluuloi said:

Lol, Stalker doesnt take your resources. 

Yeah and I feel like half the people responding to this didnt read the whole post.

 

It's entirely within reason for a boss to be difficult to kill, for a new player. That's fine.

Maybe a bit annoying but fair enough. But I dont think it's fair for the lich to be able to steal resources from newbies who actually need them.  I dont give 2 farts whether or not I lose an orokin cell that was just gonna sit on the other 300+ orokin cells I already have but I remember what it was like when I was still new to the game .

 

[98Octane]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I'm fine with newer players getting their butt kicked by something especially if it only bothers you once in awhile. What I'm not fine with is new players having their resources that unlike people like us, they actually need messed with until they deal with it. That's harsh.

Having their progression slowed by resource theft though?

Literally the resource drain is what concerns me the most.

"This community is the best it's not toxic at all"

I think the lich being able to steal your resources to begin with is questionable.

Yeah and I feel like half the people responding to this didnt read the whole post.

 

It's entirely within reason for a boss to be difficult to kill, for a new player. That's fine.

Maybe a bit annoying but fair enough. But I dont think it's fair for the lich to be able to steal resources from newbies who actually need them.  I dont give 2 farts whether or not I lose an orokin cell that was just gonna sit on the other 300+ orokin cells I already have but I remember what it was like when I was still new to the game .

 

this is what this keyboard warriors dont understand, if its for veterans then make it only available to veterans, new players loosing resources is stupid at best.

and right now anything that can clear lvl 20 mission will be shat upon by lich missions. when i started i started doing void missions even before i was mr 2 i think running mk bo kunai and paris on excal, I guess power makes you loose your mind, 

getting killed is a welcome change , atleast now you have the fear of death since rest all stalker/ wannabe stalkers are just a joke

[Draemoris]

 I just don't understand why newbies should have access to everything content-wise. MMOs have never followed that type of thought process. You level to max, you gear up through dungeons and what-have-you, then you eventually work up to raids and the like. This isn't new, newbies don't need to be catered to at every turn. They're supposed to be your *personal* enemy, you're *supposed* to really want to kill them, they're *meant* to piss you off.
 

You talk about driving away all but the most dedicated players, yet so far, everything for a while now has focused on nothing more than the newcomers and it has pissed off the dedicated players/vets of the game. How about letting us have something that challenges us for once ya? Please go away with "we need a better newbie experience" this game has become so damn casual at this point and a lot of us are rather sick of it. By the time you've completed the TWW you should have a good grasp of what's going on and how to play the game. You could realistically never change from your starting frame and clear all the content in the game just fine. This game is not difficult, just time consuming, and we need difficulty right about now. 

I'm not going to blindly defend DE, the game does have its issues and I acknowledge them, but this ain't one chief. 

EDIT: I do think level 20 however is far too low for these things. They need to up the levels (by quite a lot) at which they appear so newer players simply don't have to deal with it at all. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Draemoris

[Volinus7]

Isn't it DE's lenient way of "hey kids there's a bundle" as they've done several times before? 

[Siegecraft]

1 hour ago, 98Octane said:

yes newbie 100 200 hours doesnt make you veteran, i have 5100+ hrs and i still consider myself learning every day , since the game is always changing, 

wow 5100+hrs and learning  nice  and here i was thinking  Eve online was complicated and even after years of me playing i still feel i know nothing  sorry sorry  here the new update is so hard please nerf it to Lv 20/30 so i can onshot it  lol no hard feeling 

[Volinus7]

Just now, Reakacemrz said:

wow 5100+hrs and learning  nice  and here i was thinking  Eve online was complicated and even after years of me playing i still feel i know nothing  sorry sorry  here the new update is so hard please nerf it to Lv 20/30 so i can onshot it  lol no hard feeling 

people learn at different rates

some people might completely permute Warframe within the first 12hrs without spreadsheets and uninstall it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[98Octane]

1 minute ago, Reakacemrz said:

wow 5100+hrs and learning  nice  and here i was thinking  Eve online was complicated and even after years of me playing i still feel i know nothing  sorry sorry  here the new update is so hard please nerf it to Lv 20/30 so i can onshot it  lol no hard feeling 

you have no idea, did  you know u can land on the drones flying in jupiter, but i mostly spend my days trying new weapons which i just maxed years ago and then left. Or help in clan

nope i dont want to lower the level, i have no problem killing lvl 300s even, but a player barely managing to clear star chart will have no chance against thrall missions, 

 

neither do i care about the ass kicking they would rcve from lich, only that at those MRs even 1 neural sensor or neurodes stolen is a big loss, same with with relics.

i have 1000+ relics and too lazy anyways to  run all, cudnt care less if something is stolen

[98Octane]

2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

people learn at different rates

some people might completely permute Warframe within the first 12hrs without spreadsheets and uninstall it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I still go to wiki from time to time to look up something i need lmao

[Siegecraft]

10 minutes ago, 98Octane said:

you have no idea, did  you know u can land on the drones flying in jupiter, but i mostly spend my days trying new weapons which i just maxed years ago and then left. Or help in clan

nope i dont want to lower the level, i have no problem killing lvl 300s even, but a player barely managing to clear star chart will have no chance against thrall missions, 

 

neither do i care about the ass kicking they would rcve from lich, only that at those MRs even 1 neural sensor or neurodes stolen is a big loss, same with with relics.

i have 1000+ relics and too lazy anyways to  run all, cudnt care less if something is stolen

so what  if u can land or mediate or something  thats not learning new thing  if its just a gimmick  and ya  the  stealing thing forcefully is some what problem and my guess it willl be changed where you can choose not to do litch or something .AND  the stealing thing u can see it  as  a opportunities to get a bit stronger instead of rushing the whole starchart in a day or two  for new player because for old players once they get all the weapons the need and things this litch wil be same as eso or arbitration only going in it once in blue moon and i tell u that will not be long

[Sdric]

I actually love the high leveled enemies, but there really should be an opt-out for players whop just finished 2nd dream.

[98Octane]

4 minutes ago, Reakacemrz said:

so what  if u can land or mediate or something  thats not learning new thing  if its just a gimmick  and ya  the  stealing thing forcefully is some what problem and my guess it willl be changed where you can choose not to do litch or something .AND  the stealing thing u can see it  as  a opportunities to get a bit stronger instead of rushing the whole starchart in a day or two  for new player because for old players once they get all the weapons the need and things this litch wil be same as eso or arbitration only going in it once in blue moon and i tell u that will not be long

well in a game like this or in any rpg players have the choices, if they want to rush out of their zone and get thrashed, now think of this if you played warcraft, evrytime a mob kills you cause you ran out of your noob zone you lost an item in bag!!

[Fallen77]

Oh no, my lich stole 400 credits, 20 rubedo, 15 ferrite and a Pressure point... Waaaah ! I'll never be able to farm this back !!! DE is trying to make me buy rubedo with plat !! Any noob should be able to do any content in 5 minutes !! I didn't even do an arbitration, but I'm still going after my lich to recup that Vital loot, make lich missions level 5 !!! I don't wanna have any form of resistance from the game !!! I just want to log in, press the auto-win button and be gifted every single item in the game ! That's my idea of fun !

 

I know the game has 7 years of content, but I'll beeline to the end, nothing wrong with it uh ? Any lvl 5 noob in wow should be able to take down BlackRock solo right ? It wouldn't be fair otherwise right ?

 

What is it gonna be next ? Oh, an ennemy shot and I lost a few HP, the game should not try to kill me, it's not noob friendly, please DE, remove damage from the game, I don't wanna be at work when playing !

[Rakosta_Kai]

20 hours ago, soluuloi said:

The last thing this game needs is a big ass creepy grineer killing newbies Bane style. We need better newbie experience, not make it worse for them. At least add more requirement for Kuva larving to spawn, like "clear all map nodes" or "did at least 10 sorties".

The featured system merely requires players  familiar with Kuva and is a natural next step from TSD and TWW...It was never designed to be newbie friendly and is mechanically blocked from them specifically. If a new player managed to bumble into this mechanic they rather asked for it and I would say it's no different than new players back in the day having to deal with Stalker back when he was legitimately scary.

That said there are tons of players who don't bother overmuch with Kuva farming and it presents it's own tier of challenges for them as well.

Maybe DE should implement a mechanic where the Lich, once formed, wreaks havoc on a player for a week only to start?

 If the Tenno isn't successful inside that time, the Lich then tells the Tenno they will meet again when they are actually worthy and then retreats for 30 days.

...Then an even stronger version of the Lich can come back and steal the Tenno's loot for yet another week if the Tenno still isn't prepared. 

[Siegecraft]

17 minutes ago, 98Octane said:

well in a game like this or in any rpg players have the choices, if they want to rush out of their zone and get thrashed, now think of this if you played warcraft, evrytime a mob kills you cause you ran out of your noob zone you lost an item in bag!!

if that happnes i would try harder any way possible  here is a eg for u suppose u r taking class 5 test or exam and u fail it so what do u do go back to learning abc because its easy or try harder to pass class 5 test

[Monolake]

Thats true, its made for veterans, new/weaker players having issues from everything  - getting resources stolen, dealing with higher levels, tanky Liches themselves. I was in a pub lich mission with  mr10s and they couldn't scratch their lich and I ended doing 88% damage (even if my weapons were bad vs theirs liches)

Then they have hard time doing floods for relics and obviously dont have gazzilion formas to sink into kuva weapons.

All in all lich shouldn't be this easy to 'create' almost by accident on a low level planet.

 

[Fl_3]

No matter what I read, I can't see this "For Veterans" part of this.

This update is gated at "The War Within" and mob level 20? you can get there after a few days of solid play. If this was aimed at veterans why not make it that the Larvelings only appear after say an hour of some high level endurance mission on Sedna, or in a special mission only available to people over a certain MR? Why gate the entry so low if it's for people who have spent thousands of hours in this game? I'm sorry, but it this is the case, the presentation just doesn't hold water.

From the packaging, and the requirements, it's pretty obvious that this is aimed at newer players in order to give them harder content because why else would creating a Lich be so easy, also, just how hard can this be for veteran players who have the power to melt their way through level 200 mobs?, also, if this is supposed to be challenging why is everything you need to defeat your Lich available in the cash shop? 

Veteran content? Really?

Maybe for you, but not for this veteran it isn't.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Fl_3
My spelling sucks this morning . .

[VanFanel1980mx]

21 hours ago, soluuloi said:

I dont know if DE play their own game or not...

No they don't they only stream when is needed, they play with unmodded stuff and they can't survive regular Lv40 enemies.

[Zeclem]

this thread clearly shows that "this community is great" phrase is a complete lie.

tww is not difficult or time consuming to get to at all. people get to that by just following the roadmap game gave to them (junctions) in a few days. thats not a "veteran".

[BETAOPTICS]

I agree on the premise of the authors post, missions on +20 are too low for what it expects and the penalties too high for the players it targets with that level. I do not mind the penalty, or the mechanic, but do add higher requirements, high enough to allow players to have a fair chance of understanding what they are doing and a chance to fight back but not too high as to bar it only for those of us who are the most dedicated and long time players.

Edited November 3, 2019 by BETAOPTICS

[CatboyPrincess]

I don't understand. When I click on a mission in my Kuva Lich's territory, I get the choice to launch the standard mission. Does this option not work properly? (I have yet to try it/need it myself.)

On the surface, it looks like any given player already has access to the original node.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[(XBOX)Mcfar53]

I saw that as well. I'm a casual player. If it doesn't interfere with my play style then why worry. I accidentally killed one in the heat of battle. Next thing I knew the whole planet was red. I tried playing one of the nodes. What a nightmare! I wish I was as good as some of the players. I'm an okay player but that's it and there's no such thing as "Git gud" for me. I'm handicapped so there's that. This has been my favorite game. First on computer then PS4 and now Xbox. I honestly believe there may be a choice to play one or the other with no fear that you will be overwhelmed while playing the normal mission. A company like DE looks at all the angles. I certainly understand the apprehension of a lot of players. I remember when the Alerts were replaced by Nightwave. It sent a lot of players into a frenzy. Turns out it's better. You still get everything you got before plus some and you can do it without playing the harder missions. For the Kuva Lich I think there will be a choice and one won't interfere with the other. I'll certainly check it out tomorrow.