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1nkling

Why killing wukong and iron staff

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Hi DE, why would you kill wukong and iron staff with the melee update?

I know the purpose was to make melee better while keeping the game balanced, but why killing wukong? Iron staff got nerfed badly, with no base damage increase, now iron staff:

  • does not benefit from combo multiplier in terms of damage
  • can not increase crit chance from gladiator set anymore
  • with primed reach, range reduced from ~10m to 6.5m
  • oh, CO got nerfed as well

Can anyone give me a reason to use iron staff over gram prime (or any top tier zaw), when

  • gram p has more base damage, 300 vs 250
  • gram p has better status chance, 32 vs 30
  • gram p has better crit chance, 32 vs 25
  • gram p is more slash based
  • gram p can pair with weeping wounds and blood rush, while even gladiator set doesn't work on iron staff now
  • gram p doesn't cost you 5 energy/s
  • gram p can equip rivens

DE, why?!

 

Edit:

Post Hotfix 26.0.5, gladiator set does work with iron staff.

But because the bonus kicks in before primal rage, at x12 combo multiplier each gladiator mod only grands you 11*10%*25%=27.5%,

while before this melee update, at x3 combo multiplier each gladiator mod gives you 3*15%*25%*(1+150%)=28.125%. 

In other words, the effect of gladiator set at x12 is only comparable with x3 before, without considering the effect of other sources of cc. And considering now the base damage doesn't scale with CM, at x12 CM, the current damage output is less than 1/3 of what it was at x3 CM before this update.

Edited by 1nkling
some update about gladiator set
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4 minutes ago, 1nkling said:

Can anyone give me a reason to use iron staff over gram prime

It looks cooler? I'm at a loss as well.

Gram P also has 100% block.

Edited by DeMonkey
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I hate this melee update so much.

This affect all exalted melee, but probably wukong hurts most, as excal still has his 20m blade and he never cared about combo multiplier any day, Valkyr's 4 is more about the invulnerability, and baruuk is not a frame focusing on his 4.

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4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It looks cooler? I'm at a loss as well.

Gram P also has 100% block.

Oh yeah I forgot about the blocking. But I guess that's just a bug for iron staff and will be fixed soon. 

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1 minute ago, 1thurts said:

I hate this melee update so much.

This affect all exalted melee, but probably wukong hurts most, as excal still has his 20m blade and he never cared about combo multiplier any day, Valkyr's 4 is more about the invulnerability, and baruuk is not a frame focusing on his 4.

Right, exalted melee abilities need to be looked at.

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1 minute ago, 1nkling said:

Oh yeah I forgot about the blocking. But I guess that's just a bug for iron staff and will be fixed soon. 

It being a bug is the most hopeful option, but there is something niggling away at me, that being that they simply forgot. Wukong has been so unloved over the years, this melee rework being a prime example of it, that there would be no part of me that would actually be surprised if they had just forgotten.

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3 minutes ago, 1thurts said:

I hate this melee update so much.

This affect all exalted melee, but probably wukong hurts most, as excal still has his 20m blade and he never cared about combo multiplier any day, Valkyr's 4 is more about the invulnerability, and baruuk is not a frame focusing on his 4.

Baruuk's 4 was really good against non-armored enemies because of the high damage and great AoE. Any Desolate Hands tank build also worked with Serene Storm because the abilities benefit from the same modifiers. Now its pretty bad because of the combo changes and the base damage is only 250 with base power strength which is relatively low after the changes.

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I think DE just forgot to buff the exalt melees when they are so excited to get all these new stuffs to their players.

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3 minutes ago, kyori said:

I think DE just forgot to buff the exalt melees when they are so excited to get all these new stuffs to their players.

Dude they must be excited all the time then.

Edited by Swagernator22663
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7 minutes ago, Swagernator22663 said:

That moment when you  revowrk a frame and in the next update you kill him worse than he ever was.

Pablo should feel bad about it.

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7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It being a bug is the most hopeful option, but there is something niggling away at me, that being that they simply forgot. Wukong has been so unloved over the years, this melee rework being a prime example of it, that there would be no part of me that would actually be surprised if they had just forgotten.

I am also worried about wukong being forgotten by DE. Actually that was a reason I made this post here, to remind DE that there are wukong mains/fans and they'll be pissed if DE screw wukong up.

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1 minute ago, 1nkling said:

they'll be pissed if DE screw wukong up.

Don't think they care though. So many players use Catchmoon but they still go ahead and nerf it.

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7 minutes ago, kyori said:

I think DE just forgot to buff the exalt melees when they are so excited to get all these new stuffs to their players.

I hope that was the case, but I am not sure about this. Also by removing the interaction between gladiator set and iron staff, I don't know if increasing the base damage would be enough. I am ready to see it ends up to be a great nerf anyway. And that's sad.

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1 minute ago, kyori said:

Don't think they care though. So many players use Catchmoon but they still go ahead and nerf it.

Catchmoon is good and should have a low riven dispo, that's how rivens are designed. With its decreased riven dispo, catchmoon is still top tier.

But with this melee update, iron staff, an melee ability that costs you significant energy, is now worse than a bunch of normal melee. I don't think this makes sense in any world.

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Catchmoon nerfed is not only the riven but the range.

This melee phase 2 is a big nerfed all together, because melee doesn't scale now. So you can say it is finally balanced as primary and secondary are non-scaling weapons too.

All the buffed numbers can only get you to a certain level (which to be fair not many players will play till there) but after that it will be difficult already.

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2 hours ago, Swagernator22663 said:

That moment when you  revowrk a frame and in the next update you kill him worse than he ever was.

This statement is the definition of hyperbole. In the time I've played Wukong, I've seen little reason to use his 4 because there are weapons that can pretty much fulfill the same purpose without being a needless energy drain. It doesn't help that it has its own Combo Counter which can be instantly lost when it deactivates or by touching a nullifier. The only time I've found myself using it are in the scant weapon limitation Sortie missions. 

Furthermore, this doesn't hurt his other abilities in the slightest. Saying this makes him as bad as pre-rework Wukong is absolutely laughable.

Edited by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

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12 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

This statement is the definition of hyperbole. In the time I've played Wukong, I've seen little reason to use his 4 because there are weapons that can pretty much fulfill the same purpose without being a needless energy drain. It doesn't help that it has its own Combo Counter which can be instantly lost when it deactivates or by touching a nullifier. The only time I've found myself using it are in the scant weapon limitation Sortie missions. 

Furthermore, this doesn't hurt his other abilities in the slightest. Saying this makes him as bad as pre-rework Wukong is absolutely laughable.

You’re hyperbolizing how bad the energy drain is. It’s not that bad. Especially when you put rage on him.

And without his exalted Wukongs back to just being a frame that’s hard to kill but now with the added bonuses of being the best at spy vaults and having a spawnable buddy that does serve much purpose anymore because CO was nerfed so you can’t use him as your status applicator anymore.

So while he’s still technically better than he was before the buff. The loss of his staffs Damage was a major blow his worth as a frame. But go ahead, enjoy your tank spy frame.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re hyperbolizing how bad the energy drain is. It’s not that bad. Especially when you put rage on him.

And without his exalted Wukongs back to just being a frame that’s hard to kill but now with the added bonuses of being the best at spy vaults and having a spawnable buddy that does serve much purpose anymore because CO was nerfed so you can’t use him as your status applicator anymore.

So while he’s still technically better than he was before the buff. The loss of his staffs Damage was a major blow his worth as a frame. But go ahead, enjoy your tank spy frame.

Considering I can go over an hour in Mot and 20 waves in Lua Disruption as Wukong without ever needing to use his 4. I think you just need to learn how to play him properly or get better weapons if Iron Staff was such a crutch for you.

Edited by Ace-Bounty-Hunter
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vor 4 Stunden schrieb DeMonkey:

It looks cooler? I'm at a loss as well.

Gram P also has 100% block.

Don't act surprise, with it's sweet 5 dispo, anyone should use the gram over everything. Period. 🙂

jokes aside, I'm pretty sure they'll do something with exalted weapons in the future.. 

THOUGH I'm not mad about the range nerf, it had to be done, I'm sorry.

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30 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Considering I can go over an hour in Mot and 20 waves in Lua Disruption as Wukong without ever needing to use his 4. I think you just need to learn how to play him properly or get better weapons if Iron Staff was such a crutch for you.

I’m not saying it was a crutch. I’m saying it was finally a great exalted weapon and now it’s back to being garbage and by extent making Wukong less useful. 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m not saying it was a crutch. I’m saying it was finally a great exalted weapon and now it’s back to being garbage and by extent making Wukong less useful. 

I will agree the devs need to fix it so it's at least on par with other weapons in this update. But I flat out disagree that it completely breaks his kit like some people have been saying in this thread.

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

jokes aside, I'm pretty sure they'll do something with exalted weapons in the future.. 

Sure, but this holds just as much value as "I'm sure they'll do something with the Helminth room in the future". When in the future? Patience is finite, and when we're supposedly getting encompassing melee changes, having selective bits of melee just outright ignored for no good reason is exasperating, especially when it keeps on happening over and over again.

13 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

THOUGH I'm not mad about the range nerf, it had to be done, I'm sorry.

I'm not complaining about the range nerf, I'm not complaining about the damage nerf. Both are areas in which the staff was perhaps too good, and nerfs were justified.

My complaint is that, overall, the staff has objectively become worse than basic melee again, when for 5eps it should be the best melee weapon in the entire game (Valkyr loses out since Hysteria also provides lifesteal and invulnerability, whilst Primal Fury is just a staff).

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Sure, but this holds just as much value as "I'm sure they'll do something with the Helminth room in the future". When in the future? Patience is finite, and when we're supposedly getting encompassing melee changes, having selective bits of melee just outright ignored for no good reason is exasperating, especially when it keeps on happening over and over again.

I'm not complaining about the range nerf, I'm not complaining about the damage nerf. Both are areas in which the staff was perhaps too good, and nerfs were justified.

My complaint is that, overall, the staff has objectively become worse than basic melee again, when for 5eps it should be the best melee weapon in the entire game (Valkyr loses out since Hysteria also provides lifesteal and invulnerability, whilst Primal Fury is just a staff).

All I have to say to the upper part is: soon™ 

I count this as an oversight (yes, de does that a lot) if de is listening the buff will come before the update hits console.. otherwise, yeah, I understand your frustration.

I think if I cared about exalted weapons I'd also be pissed and would see this as a more severe change.

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6 hours ago, 1thurts said:

I hate this melee update so much.

This affect all exalted melee, but probably wukong hurts most, as excal still has his 20m blade and he never cared about combo multiplier any day, Valkyr's 4 is more about the invulnerability, and baruuk is not a frame focusing on his 4.

He didn't need it because of Condition Overload...lol.

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