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Why killing wukong and iron staff

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7 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

YEEEESSS! Someone else who has witnessed the glory of Range Wukong!

Bonus: Try activating Celestial Stomp, but popping into Cloudwalker before the stasis activates. Stealth damage bonus for days boiiii

 

OT:

The wiki states that Exalted melee damage still scales with the combo counter, just with much slower buildup than before.
ZGOkvMM.png
I haven't seen anyone on the forums mention this at all (including in this thread), but can anyone confirm whether this is actually true?

(I'm asking as an avid Excalibur+Wukong player who literally never presses 4.)

As far as I understand, this impacts only skills that dealt extra damage from combo multiplier, like Khora whip. For exalted weapons, it works as other melee weapons. Regular attacks deal the same damage regardless of the combo multiplier. Heavy attacks deal more damage per the combo multiplier.

A glimmer of hope. It seems that the true steel mods over clocks critic chance. DE Rebecca mentioned that on stream for Valkyr. I assume it would be the same for Wukong (probably not as powerful due to lower critic chance for the staff than the claws) and all melee weapons. Though, if it works for melee weapons, nothing stopping you from using sacrificial steel and blood rush for some insane melee weapon damage, and again, staff will be way behind.

Honestly, I think DE should just allow acolyte mods on exalted weapons and call it a day. The damage exalted weapons deal is mostly similar to other melee weapons anyway.

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13 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Not on regular attacks does there seem to be a difference: ~13 damage at 0x, ~13 damage at 12x.

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

As far as I understand, this impacts only skills that dealt extra damage from combo multiplier, like Khora whip. For exalted weapons, it works as other melee weapons. Regular attacks deal the same damage regardless of the combo multiplier. Heavy attacks deal more damage per the combo multiplier.

Cheers, thanks!

Yeah, I think that enabling acolyte mods on Exalteds should be the way to go at this point. Or just give them the "reduced scaling" like landslide/whipclaw/etc, so that Excal/Wukong/etc players don't feel pressured to use Blood Rush if they don't want to.

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18 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Bonus: Try activating Celestial Stomp, but popping into Cloudwalker before the stasis activates. Stealth damage bonus for days boiiii

What?!?!?

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On 2019-11-22 at 1:05 AM, SortaRandom said:

YEEEESSS! Someone else who has witnessed the glory of Range Wukong!

Bonus: Try activating Celestial Stomp, but popping into Cloudwalker before the stasis activates. Stealth damage bonus for days boiiii

 

OT:

The wiki states that Exalted melee damage still scales with the combo counter, just with much slower buildup than before.
ZGOkvMM.png
I haven't seen anyone on the forums mention this at all (including in this thread), but can anyone confirm whether this is actually true?

(I'm asking as an avid Excalibur+Wukong player who literally never presses 4.)

unfortunately exalted weapons don't benefit from any of this base damage multiplier. 

But I do believe that by simply applying the same multiplier to exalted weapons, they would rise back to where they were approximately. (I can live with the range loss of iron staff)

So DE why don't you do it?

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Not gonna, since the crit chance mod rebalance I’m barely scraping by with Gladiator mods. Sacrificial Steel worked wonderfully before the rework where I had consistent orange crits, but now I’m barely doing orange crits with very low damage on yellow crits.

The hit to Condition Overload is also a big damper, since I prioritized Iron Staff to proc Bleed consistently with Smite mods to get quick kills. The damage just feels like it’s not there any more.

The decrease to base range on Iron Staff also feels unusual. It certainly needs a bigger base range to be thematic in a way.

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On 2019-11-02 at 12:24 PM, 1nkling said:

Hi DE, why would you kill wukong and iron staff with the melee update?

I know the purpose was to make melee better while keeping the game balanced, but why killing wukong? Iron staff got nerfed badly, with no base damage increase, now iron staff:

  • does not benefit from combo multiplier in terms of damage
  • can not increase crit chance from gladiator set anymore
  • with primed reach, range reduced from ~10m to 6.5m
  • oh, CO got nerfed as well

Can anyone give me a reason to use iron staff over gram prime (or any top tier zaw), when

  • gram p has more base damage, 300 vs 250
  • gram p has better status chance, 32 vs 30
  • gram p has better crit chance, 32 vs 25
  • gram p is more slash based
  • gram p can pair with weeping wounds and blood rush, while even gladiator set doesn't work on iron staff now
  • gram p doesn't cost you 5 energy/s

DE, why?!

 

 

unlike gram prime base exalted damage scales from power strenght.

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35 minutes ago, PabloX732 said:

unlike gram prime base exalted damage scales from power strenght.

Power strength scaling shouldn't be required to make a weapon that costs energy as good as a weapon that doesn't.

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On 2019-11-02 at 4:16 PM, DeMonkey said:

When in the future?

I'm still waiting to be able to change the statue in the Dojo's Trophy Room... that was only promised what... 5 years ago now?

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On 2019-11-20 at 3:30 PM, Nezha_Rose said:

After the iron staff nerf I started using Range Wukong of all things, his augment for his 1 can give me a 40m stomp that costs 25 energy. 

"But Rhino (and or other CC frame) can also do that." Yes. But I dont always have a Rhino buddy, especially when I solo. 

I do suggest you to try this out tho, its not bad at all.

Just came back to report that I did the same. It's Fking amazing. With 235% range my Twin CCs the entire map while I run with a Reaper Prime and just chop them to pieces.

The CC even somewhat works on Liches, this build has been amazing

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2 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

Just came back to report that I did the same. It's Fking amazing. With 235% range my Twin CCs the entire map while I run with a Reaper Prime and just chop them to pieces.

The CC even somewhat works on Liches, this build has been amazing

Range Wukong new meta lets go! The fact is that you can CC without interrupting any action is the icing on the cake. You can CC while reviving and activating Life support as well, helps alot! 

Never tried to CC while hacking tho... Ill let you know.

Edited by Nezha_Rose

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2 hours ago, Nezha_Rose said:

Range Wukong new meta lets go! The fact is that you can CC without interrupting any action is the icing on the cake. You can CC while reviving and activating Life support as well, helps alot! 

Never tried to CC while hacking tho... Ill let you know.

You ambition is inspiring my dude.

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2 hours ago, Nezha_Rose said:

Range Wukong new meta lets go! The fact is that you can CC without interrupting any action is the icing on the cake. You can CC while reviving and activating Life support as well, helps alot! 

Wasn't the duration on the cc really bad or has that changed?

Not that I have any idea how I'd fit range into my build when I'm using 3 umbrals for survivability to minimize need for Defy and a lot of duration with Rush for that sweet Cloud Walker map traversal. Plus not having the ability to dismiss the clone can be really inconvenient at times.

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Just now, vFlitz said:

Wasn't the duration on the cc really bad or has that changed?

Not that I have any idea how I'd fit range into my build when I'm using 3 umbrals for survivability to minimize need for Defy and a lot of duration with Rush for that sweet Cloud Walker map traversal. Plus not having the ability to dismiss the clone can be really inconvenient at times.

Matter of taste really. I am using an Umbral Range wukong myself (Used 1 umbral forma) and it works rather well for me. 

Even if the duration is short, *its easily spammable* as it doesnt interrupt your general actions, and the stomp stun can be refreshed from what I seen. 

As for the clone dismissal, yep it took a while to get used to, not a big deal once you run a few missions with the set.

Its not a build for everyone, but I still recomend you to give it a try sometimes. Let me know if you like the see the image of my build. 

I dont use rush since cloud walker is already fast enough for my needs, and sometimes having a slightly easier to control cloud walker helps in spy missions. 

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

You ambition is inspiring my dude.

My personal goal is to make both china frames my top played frames. (Im a sukka for chinnesse mythos) Nezha is already at the top, saving 2 umbral formas just for his prime. My Wukong still has work to do. Managed to cook up various builds for both of these gods.

Edited by Nezha_Rose

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3 minutes ago, Nezha_Rose said:

My personal goal is to make both china frames my top played frames. (Im a sukka for chinnesse mythos) Nezha is already at the top, saving 2 umbral formas just for his prime. My Wukong still has work to do. Managed to cook up various builds for both of these gods.

Wukong is by far my highest used frame at ~25%, as sbefore the Iron Staff nerf he was literally the best Warframe at EVERYTHING except for Defense missions.

Honestly, wasn't feeling it with Nezha

11 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Wasn't the duration on the cc really bad or has that changed?

Not that I have any idea how I'd fit range into my build when I'm using 3 umbrals for survivability to minimize need for Defy and a lot of duration with Rush for that sweet Cloud Walker map traversal. Plus not having the ability to dismiss the clone can be really inconvenient at times.

Sounds like my exact build, and I used an Umbra forma for that exact reason. But, it's important to note Wukong is by far my highest used Warframe and it makes sense for me.

In any other case I'd recommend dropping Umbra Intensify and either use Transient Fortitude or just literally anything else. Range Wukong doesn't need Str at all, I just prefer running it so my clone doesn't die at all, but recasting it is nothing. Costs minimal Energy and it doesn't interrupt actions.
And that brings me to the second point- The Stomp is also incredibly spammable. The duration is 6 seconds, which is fine really, but honestly I wouldnt notice if it was less since I dont use my  Energy on anything else and it costs only 25 energy per cast.

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6 minutes ago, Nezha_Rose said:

Matter of taste really. I am using an Umbral Range wukong myself (Used 1 umbral forma) and it works rather well for me. 

Even if the duration is short, *its easily spammable* as it doesnt interrupt your general actions, and the stomp stun can be refreshed from what I seen. 

As for the clone dismissal, yep it took a while to get used to, not a big deal once you run a few missions with the set.

Its not a build for everyone, but I still recomend you to give it a try sometimes. Let me know if you like the see the image of my build. 

I dont use rush since cloud walker is already fast enough for my needs, and sometimes having a slightly easier to control cloud walker helps in spy missions. 

I suppose I can give this a try https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170489338054967296/651528191432982539/unknown.png

What I'll miss the most is probably constitution that used to be in the augment's place for faster knockdown recovery, but I suppose I can just hold 1 to stun everything whenever I get slapped down. Neat karma play.

 

As for Iron Staff, the best use I can see for it now (as in, the only way to make it at all worth using compared to your normal melee) is building it for heavy attacks with Sacrificial set. That way you can have a normal build on your melee for everyday enemies and Staff for sentients and other status-immune enemies. There are two problems with this, however:

- Exalted Weapons have no stance capacity, so you can only barely piece together a build if both Sacrifical Mods are at rank 8 and you forma every other slot, or use an Umbra Forma

- Iron Staff's heavy attack damage isn't nearly as good as that on Baruuk's Desert Wind, nor does it have that high of a crit chance to really reap the benefits from Sac Steel's double effect for heavy attacks, so it probably still requires some ability strength investment to be viable.

Alternatively, if you're using a heavy attack build as a daily driver on your normal melee, you could use a CO one on Staff and only pull it out when there's a lot of fodder that's not worth dealing with via heavies. Could just pull out an ignis or something at that point, though.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

Honestly, wasn't feeling it with Nezha

Oddly tho, I heard the exact same sentiment on some of my clan mates as well. But its understandable. Zip zooming feels off but it clicked for me since his release... when his parts dropped from sorties.

Im baised maybe lol

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6 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Thats almost exactly what I run, this should be a nifty option. Also, you can use more than one set y know, so youre not forced to stick with one build  for different situations, on config B I have a build focused on speed, and on C I have a build focused on the exalted (that I havent even touched since the rework).

In your case, if knockdown is to be too annoying (like blast sorties), run knockdown recovery it in config B

 

Ill log in like in a few mins, Ill share my build here.

Edited by Nezha_Rose

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31 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

I suppose I can give this a try https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170489338054967296/651528191432982539/unknown.png

What I'll miss the most is probably constitution that used to be in the augment's place for faster knockdown recovery, but I suppose I can just hold 1 to stun everything whenever I get slapped down. Neat karma play.

 

I love how all Wukongs run Rush . It's like a consensus because Wukong is the god of speed in Warframe

That's very similar to what Im running, which is this- https://tennoware.com/warframes/wukong prime/11223104207w405t505c903n405p710y910k803w805y810y71000000000 

You can always use Adaptation instead of Stretch, but tbh I only feel like more tankiness is needed only on Survivals 40+ minutes in, which means I'll just switch some mods for these specific situations

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wHajoeY.png

 

mEYZY7Y.png


Heres my go to for most missions^

 

22 minutes ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

 

58 minutes ago, vFlitz said:


It helps out in many missions, never seen the need to alter anything... I do sometimes change coation drift for handspring for knockdown recovery.

While the range is a bit smaller, 38m is still no joke, and the reduced energy costs makes it more easy to spam. Semi long duration helps with having longer cloudwalk if need be. ConfigC will be changed to use almost the same mods, but will use the steel charge aura so I can fit in Rush on the exilus.

Edited by Nezha_Rose

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On 2019-12-03 at 12:04 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Ah, so that's why I haven't seen wukongs rushing and killing everything in sight anymore.

Good.

That's actually due to the range nerf of iron staff. Even if DE triples the damage of iron staff (which they should do), you won't see a nuking wukong anymore. With a riven, tons of weapons can out reach iron staff now.

My concern here is iron staff now has no advantage over normal melee, and falls short against high level heavy units.

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Wukong iron staff and exalted melee weapons in general took a big hit in this big melee update. But iron staff was not only indirectly "nerfed" like the other exalted weapons but it also got direct nerfs in the form of decreased range and decreased forward movement during attacks.

Like mentioned earlier, I do not see any reason to use iron staff other than for sorties where weapons have been restricted. There are no advantages(other than what was mentioned earlier) with running iron staff over normal melee, but there are several disadvantages to using iron staff (all Exalted melee?). Energy cost, several units dispel it, you lose combo counter when dispelled or turned off, needs dedicated mod slots on warframe, can glitch against nullifiers.

Exalted blade still has the ranged projectile gimmick, valkyrie invulnerability and so on. But Iron staff's gimmick was range which has not been replaced. Btw, the original lore of the "real" Sun Wukong's staff Jingu Bang was that it can shrink or grow however the wielder wills it.

So adding the stats, disadvantages and advantages together you end up with an Iron staff that is simply a bad weapon when compared to at least MR 8 normal melee weapons and up.

Edited by Frendh
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