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Why killing wukong and iron staff


1nkling

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Iron Staff desperately needs to be its own thing in order to be relevant in Wukong's kit. Right now, it's just a big stick, really. There's nothing interesting about it, and it really looks like top tier melees outshines it. Adding a new effect to make the ability truly feel like an exalted weapon or a rework would be really welcome.

Another interesting thing with Wukong's staff actually could be to give it the Garuda Talon treatment : allow Wukong to use it when you don't have any melee equipped. It would add like any staff melee weapon this way. Then you could release Primal Fury's combos as a new stance, awarded for free to all Wukong users. This would of course mean that Wukong's 4 would get reworked into something else.

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14 hours ago, 1nkling said:

That's actually due to the range nerf of iron staff. Even if DE triples the damage of iron staff (which they should do), you won't see a nuking wukong anymore. With a riven, tons of weapons can out reach iron staff now.

My concern here is iron staff now has no advantage over normal melee, and falls short against high level heavy units.

Ah, the same issue with Garuda.

Since there's nothing special about the exalted, why use it?

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3 hours ago, D20 said:

Iron Staff desperately needs to be its own thing in order to be relevant in Wukong's kit. Right now, it's just a big stick, really. There's nothing interesting about it, and it really looks like top tier melees outshines it. Adding a new effect to make the ability truly feel like an exalted weapon or a rework would be really welcome.

Another interesting thing with Wukong's staff actually could be to give it the Garuda Talon treatment : allow Wukong to use it when you don't have any melee equipped. It would add like any staff melee weapon this way. Then you could release Primal Fury's combos as a new stance, awarded for free to all Wukong users. This would of course mean that Wukong's 4 would get reworked into something else.

It does not have to remain as the an exalted weapon, however, the Garuda Talon treatment means it is will be non-existent since it is outshined by melee weapons. 

Honestly, I think it is good as it stands, design wise. Either allow acolyte mods to be used with exalted weapons or buff its stats to be around other melee weapons strength.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

It does not have to remain as the an exalted weapon, however, the Garuda Talon treatment means it is will be non-existent since it is outshined by melee weapons. 

Honestly, I think it is good as it stands, design wise. Either allow acolyte mods to be used with exalted weapons or buff its stats to be around other melee weapons strength.

Even with acolyte mods it'd be worse than normal melee, and it'd probably end up needing yet another forma because for some reason DE still thinks it's fine for exalteds to have no bonus capacity from stance.

Buffing the stats might help more, but it'd still be a hard sell, tbh, unless maybe unparalleled range was involved in the buffs. As it stands, no matter the stats, instead of giving you unique perks like other exalted weapons, Iron Staff conveys a drawback - your clone is also using it when you are. And the clone is horribly derpy and inefficient with melee. Meanwhile, if I have him use a kuva brakk while I melee, it can easily match or outperform me in kill count, and strip armor of any enemy he looks at in mere moments. Even if Iron Staff was amazing, the clone won't ever be that good with it.

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On 2019-11-02 at 2:09 PM, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

I will agree the devs need to fix it so it's at least on par with other weapons in this update. But I flat out disagree that it completely breaks his kit like some people have been saying in this thread.

Losing 25% of your awesome is kind of a big deal.

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Whaat they nerfed range on his 4? That was literally the only reasson i played him, great range and dmg. Well i think hes dead again. Hope you guys enjoyed his 3 months of glory, hes "trash" again (also i hate what they did to defy it was MUCH better before rework but w/e). 

His 4 and mobility was actually very fun, but nerfing his range is saaad...

On the other hand Valkyr is so good now with added range on her claws, also has more momentum on spin attack big UP on her "rework".

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On 2019-12-05 at 11:56 AM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Ah, the same issue with Garuda.

Since there's nothing special about the exalted, why use it?

Because I enjoy the damage Iron Staff was dealing, and I want that back.

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I also think it is silly, to put it mildly, that Iron Staff is not the melee weapon with longest range. When all possible range mods have been used on each melee weapon type, Iron staff should be the one on top in the context of range.

16 hours ago, Ikusias said:

I'd like to see exalted weapons receive a capacity upgrade like Paraesis and access to all the mods that they can't currently use

More capacity is merely a convenience. It is not going to make the weapon do more damage.

If you are going to add capacity then I would rather see a polarity on the stance slot than 40 as max rank.

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19 hours ago, Benour said:

Whaat they nerfed range on his 4? That was literally the only reasson i played him, great range and dmg. Well i think hes dead again. Hope you guys enjoyed his 3 months of glory, hes "trash" again (also i hate what they did to defy it was MUCH better before rework but w/e). 

His 4 and mobility was actually very fun, but nerfing his range is saaad...

On the other hand Valkyr is so good now with added range on her claws, also has more momentum on spin attack big UP on her "rework".

If you think Wukong's dead he's alive, and if you think you're safe he's coming for you

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В 12/6/2019 в 4:59 PM, Benour сказал:

Hope you guys enjoyed his 3 months of glory, hes "trash" again (also i hate what they did to defy it was MUCH better before rework but w/e).

Wuclone, who burns everything with ogris kuva, sends regards.

Exalted weapons don't make sense in the game as a whole and I'd rather DE just remove all the samples, replacing them with normal abilities. Realistically, if you need a staff with a long range, why not just make a similar weapon? The only problem here is Simon say sorties, but it's really not such a big problem. When it comes to comparison, the regular weapon + damage buff will always be better than the exalted weapon, because you always have a way to change weapons to a stronger pattern rather than going to the forum and asking for a buff.

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Haven't been online for over a month so I haven't been up to date regarding the changes on melee, but I just did a quick test on the sim against lv155 with my usual build, I do notice a significant nerf on Wukong's 4, although it isn't overkill but it's a drastic change, but it was just a quick test, haven't looked at the damage in detail, staff range or combos.

All being said, I hope DE won't nerf it even more, it wasn't an overkill nerf but it hurts to see my monkey getting pounded like this. If it's a bug or something I hope DE takes a look into it.

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9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

So what, it goes from bottom of the barrel to... 6 feet underneath the barrel? :tongue:

:sadcry: no really, it sucks to see Wukong's Iron Staff the way it is currently, I mean what else does he has...? That stick is his special thing!

I could care less about other Warframes, but when DE touches my monkey and my monkey doesn't like the way he's being touched, I start to get mad :crylaugh:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2019-12-08 at 4:10 PM, ZarTham said:

Haven't been online for over a month so I haven't been up to date regarding the changes on melee, but I just did a quick test on the sim against lv155 with my usual build, I do notice a significant nerf on Wukong's 4, although it isn't overkill but it's a drastic change, but it was just a quick test, haven't looked at the damage in detail, staff range or combos.

All being said, I hope DE won't nerf it even more, it wasn't an overkill nerf but it hurts to see my monkey getting pounded like this. If it's a bug or something I hope DE takes a look into it.

I think the problem here is not that iron staff is so bad that it's not usable, but is that iron staff as an ability is outclassed by normal melees that don't consume energy, and in this case there's no point to use iron staff anymore.

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One thing about exalted weapons (toggleable) is that you can gear them out differently than your main choice.

So, maybe you use your Gram Prime for baddassery, but you run into something heavily resistant to the elements you're using on it.  Swap to Iron Staff and kick its ass, then back to the Gram Prime.

Maybe you make your exalted melee a heavy strike build for lifestrike.   Use your normal melee until you need a top up, flip to the exalted for a second to heal, then turn if back off.

 

Under these scenarios you're saving yourself Mods on your normal weapon while still being able to accomplish what you need to.  Exalted weapons become more a special toolkit rather than a main attack vector.

 

Ah, the same issue with Garuda.

Since there's nothing special about the exalted, why use it?

Garuda's exalted can't do the above because it's not togglable.  Yeah, her claws aren't very useful comparatively speaking.

 

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31 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

So, maybe you use your Gram Prime for baddassery, but you run into something heavily resistant to the elements you're using on it.

How often does that really happen though?

Anti Armour elements are effective (status wise) across all Grineer.

Toxin is effective against all Corpus (to ignore shields).

33 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

Maybe you make your exalted melee a heavy strike build for lifestrike.   Use your normal melee until you need a top up, flip to the exalted for a second to heal, then turn if back off.

If you're devoting an entire weapon to just healing you... why would you not just find a better method for healing you? Spending energy to summon a weapon and then performing a heavy attack is long enough that you can potentially die before getting it off (if you're at a stage where you need the healing), and at later stages where you need the healing more regularly, you're going to be swapping so much that it would have been more efficient to just put Life Strike on your main melee weapon and take the slight hit to damage.

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Yeah, I've taken to using Swift Momentum to get around needing the obligatory Drifting Contact on the melee and then replacing that with Life Strike - which is to say, making up for my frame's lack of healing in the frame build, who'da thunk X ]

Edit: The accidental synergy of this is absurdly nice, too, since Swift Momentum is for preserving combo and also speeding up heavies, which are two things that only make sense on the same weapon if it is using Life Strike.

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On 2020-02-09 at 1:48 PM, CopperBezel said:

No, but they nerfed the speed on his 2. = /

You gotta be kidding.

Edit: Just saw the change log, #*!%ing hell DE. Thanks...

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