weeding out the vets?

[jojokaizer]

logged on today to check out the new melee changes.  is this DE's way of getting rid of the vets and paving a way for new players with new monetization systems and grind? many of the changes are just straight pointless or added for the sake of "change". hundreds or thousands of hours of grind just went down the drain, weapon variety died with CO being garbage now, and they basically killed their own end game by making it mostly impossible with the weapon changes.  this normalization doesn't even make sense in a game like warframe. it's funny how warframe was always praised for allowing players to become op with their own power fantasy, now it's normalize everything for balance.  oh and btw, the reworks are pure trash as well, how do you hype vauban's rework for months and end up making him exactly the same?  how??????

[TARINunit9]

5 minutes ago, jojokaizer said:

logged on today to check out the new melee changes.  is this DE's way of getting rid of the vets and paving a way for new players with new monetization systems and grind? many of the changes are just straight pointless or added for the sake of "change". hundreds or thousands of hours of grind just went down the drain, weapon variety died with CO being garbage now, and they basically killed their own end game by making it mostly impossible with the weapon changes.  this normalization doesn't even make sense in a game like warframe. it's funny how warframe was always praised for allowing players to become op with their own power fantasy, now it's normalize everything for balance. 

DE have never hid how much they hated accidentally taking away the power ceiling with the infamous Maiming Body Rush Overload combo. You still get your power fantasy but you don't get to fight level 1,500 enemies anymore -- this was publicly disclosed two weeks ago in their Melee workshop when they spelled out how Maiming and Overload were each getting nerfed

You still have power. All melee weapons now have a minimum of 150 base damage (up from 35) with the strongest hitting 400 (up from 185). With the basic enemies in the game only starting at 100 health at level 1, and with average melee builds now reliably clearing hordes of level 140 enemies according to everyone else in the forums, I think you just need to chill your tits for a bit

Edited November 2, 2019 by TARINunit9

[Monolake]

Quote

basically killed their own end game by making it mostly impossible with the weapon changes

what?  the 'endgame' has been a total joke and still is - you can endlessly oneshot enemies and sitting 5 hrs in endless is a waste of time, not 'endgame'

[RX-3DR]

They're weeding the people who have fallen so far into a single mindset, so far gone, that they have become unable to adapt or accept any change. It would seem you are one of them.

[peterc3]

10 minutes ago, jojokaizer said:

they basically killed their own end game by making it mostly impossible with the weapon changes.

If you can't do anything in the game, easily, without these crutches, you are outing yourself as bad at the game.

Seems like a great job by DE.

[RobWasHere]

Some popular weapon types got a hit, some got buffed (Dakra Prime for example). My Dakra Prime was cutting through level 115 Arbitration Grineer no problem. So does Galatine and Nami Skyla. I don't have to use my Zaw or Whip anymore to clear content with fun, I love it. Only main grip is how bonuses from CO and BR are calculated. Condi Overload is multiplicative, so it's basically pointless to use it along with Pressure Point. Blood Rush alone truly works on weapons that have highier than normal crit chance (20ish%) unless you slap additional Gladiator set on Deconstructor.

[Lazframe]

I agree about weapon diversity. +1

[jojokaizer]

On 2019-11-02 at 7:22 PM, peterc3 said:

If you can't do anything in the game, easily, without these crutches, you are outing yourself as bad at the game.

Seems like a great job by DE.

the point is that you build a weapon to kill level 500 enemies or get red crits, now you're told hey, you wasted your time and tough luck. it has nothing to do with skill or crutches. its about what you spent your time on to achieve.

[cmacq]

On 2019-11-02 at 7:30 PM, jojokaizer said:

the point is that you build a weapon to kill level 500 enemies or get red crits, now you're told hey, you wasted your time and tough luck. it has nothing to do with skill or crutches. its about what you spent your time on to achieve.

and during that process it never occurred to you that maybe DE does not want folks killing 500 level enemies? For all kinds of reasons the game engine certainly being one of them.....

[jojokaizer]

16 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

DE have never hid how much they hated accidentally taking away the power ceiling with the infamous Maiming Body Rush Overload combo. You still get your power fantasy but you don't get to fight level 1,500 enemies anymore -- this was publicly disclosed two weeks ago in their Melee workshop when they spelled out how Maiming and Overload were each getting nerfed

You still have power. All melee weapons now have a minimum of 150 base damage (up from 35) with the strongest hitting 400 (up from 185). With the basic enemies in the game only starting at 100 health at level 1, and with average melee builds now reliably clearing hordes of level 140 enemies according to everyone else in the forums, I think you just need to chill your tits for a bit

so by making even MORE content early on trivial, they also just nerfed late game for ppl who want to over damage things? i don't understand this change. what is the point. cause from where i m seeing it, all it does is make the game easier for new players and shaft vets for stuff that didn't matter to begin with.

[jojokaizer]

Just now, cmacq said:

and during that process it never occurred to you that maybe DE does not want folks killing 500 level enemies? For all kinds of reasons the game engine certainly being one of them.....

if they don't want ppl to reach level 500+ enemies then make the ENEMIES harder, don't nerf us and our time put in to the game? does that make more sense? cause it sure does to me.

[XzWasPzX]

You cannot stop the torrent of threads like this as people realize what DE has done with the melee. Sooner or later we will have to face the fact that this has not been a good idea.

[TARINunit9]

 

Just now, jojokaizer said:

if they don't want ppl to reach level 500+ enemies then make the ENEMIES harder, don't nerf us and our time put in to the game? does that make more sense? cause it sure does to me.

The real issue is that Warframe does not reward skill, like at all. It rewards grinding, and you grind mods and weapons to destroy enemies. It is virtually impossible to substitute a lack of grinding with skill, because the enemies will take too much damage and deal too much damage. And DE aren't willing to do a complete top-down rebuild of their combat engine. With that in mind:

1 minute ago, jojokaizer said:

so by making even MORE content early on trivial, they also just nerfed late game for ppl who want to over damage things? i don't understand this change. what is the point. cause from where i m seeing it, all it does is make the game easier for new players and shaft vets for stuff that didn't matter to begin with.

Possibly. They do have SOME plans for skill-based content (Railjack being one of them), and their options are either A) make the new content just arbitrarily invulnerable to everything -- and I think Exploiter Orb is a trick that will only work once -- or B) lower our maximum power ceiling so that we can't blitz through the skill-based content with no skill

As for new players, HA! You have any idea how many players quit the game at the Ceres junction because the game suddenly hits a huge Endo grindwall? The low-level melee buffs are probably an attempt to smooth the progression out

[Vyra]

I can't really complain.
It doesn't matter anyway.
....

 

[trst]

Fun fact: not all "vets" enjoyed the years of powercreep, the joke of an "endgame" we've had, the monotony of endurance runs, or how much certain mods trivialized the game.

 

If people want to leave over some growing pains of a system rework then let them, it's the exact same song and dance of past updates (modding 2.0, parkour 2.0, damage 2.0, etc).

[DenisJaguar]

Peoples are afraid of change.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

No, that's what they have in store for the New War. Instead of going out a defeating an Old Sentient queen, you hunt down Vets and place them in retirement Dojos.

Be careful though, some of them may be belligerent, and may require additional nerfing before they submit.

[jojokaizer]

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

 

The real issue is that Warframe does not reward skill, like at all. It rewards grinding, and you grind mods and weapons to destroy enemies. It is virtually impossible to substitute a lack of grinding with skill, because the enemies will take too much damage and deal too much damage. And DE aren't willing to do a complete top-down rebuild of their combat engine. With that in mind:

Possibly. They do have SOME plans for skill-based content (Railjack being one of them), and their options are either A) make the new content just arbitrarily invulnerable to everything -- and I think Exploiter Orb is a trick that will only work once -- or B) lower our maximum power ceiling so that we can't blitz through the skill-based content with no skill

As for new players, HA! You have any idea how many players quit the game at the Ceres junction because the game suddenly hits a huge Endo grindwall? The low-level melee buffs are probably an attempt to smooth the progression out

I would 100% be ok with the changes if DE would pump out actual content that allowed a holy trinity set up or some kind of skill based content. but you know as well as I do that will never happen. simply because they can't make every frame viable and DE can't balance. 6 years playing this game and they've been promising harder more skilled content, what do we have now? 3d diablo grind, but progressively weaker and less fun.

as for new players giving up on endo grind early LOL. you think they will keep playing this game if they quit at that point?

[Morthal]

Remember, it's not about what DE wants. This is a business that serves it's customers, DE isn't the target audience, they obviously don't play the game nor test it. My first thoughts after being an unpaid QA for this update, are in line with the OP. Chase off the vets in order to bank on new players, or cash grab for rainy day because the team's morale looks shaky as of late. 

Either way, they've crossed a line, not just with the bugs related to this update but the over monetized rng based content. It truly is sending a negative message to those of us who have stuck around and contributed, not only time and money but feedback, ideas on how to improve the game...leading to more new players.

Edit: To clarify, I was hoping the team would hold off for another couple weeks to make sure non ctd bugs were squashed. This would have also given another opportunity to read and conceptualize some the feedback of those heavily invested. As it stands I won't bother with Lich relics or Grendel grind. Vitus essence even for someone who can spend hours solo in arbitration, is a nightmare after the alleged "increase" to earned. RNG is not an earning, it's not a reward for time spent. Its simply gambling your valuable time, which could be spent in far more rewarding ways. And I'm sure many of us will.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Morthal

[XzWasPzX]

hace 4 minutos, Spaceland dijo:

Peoples are afraid of change.

Nope. Thats a lazy argument. 

[Gabbynaru]

21 minutes ago, jojokaizer said:

the point is that you build a weapon to kill level 500 enemies

The point? Where have they specified that? Warframe's "endgame" point is being able to play Sorties and Arbies. Anything else is self-imposed, not something DE ever specified you should aim for. So they have every right to nuke that, like it or not.

[ranks21]

26 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

They're weeding the people who have fallen so far into a single mindset, so far gone, that they have become unable to adapt or accept any change. It would seem you are one of them

nope we lived through this already and see it as pointless. we (vets) can still put together our frames and kill those level 9999 enemies, post it, make you say oh ahh they must be hacking and you all will follow to do the same. and when you cant you cry to mommy begging for nerfs, saying all sorts of stuff like meta bla bla dis/dat. just an endless cycle of envy on your part obviously.

[pauli133]

Major update hits, and it's the same advice every time:

Take a step back, reevaluate what you're doing, reevaluate why you're doing it that way, and adjust. Your habits that were optimized for previous gameplay may no longer be applicable, and that's not inherently a problem.

This is Warframe. If your tools of choice don't do the job, go back to the giant toolbox you're flying around in and pick other tools.

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

    It seems most of the people here are just agitated because you struck a nerve OP. Good job for that, they're annoying anyway. However I disagree with your idea that they're trying to oust the vets. They have continually done all of the things you've brought up since the start of the game. That is how the game has become what it is today compared to day one.

Their focus is on the community as a whole. Not new players and not veteran players. They make changes for both but the biggest gameplay changes are based off of popular opinion from these forums. I don't like alot of the changes they make, but more people are saying they do unfortunately. Unfortunately these people seem to be generally illiterate, which is not necessarily their fault and in no way is an insult. However ignorance is their fault. That said, it will not change, so I have learned to either enjoy the game or don't. Currently I have only been logging in once every few weeks for an hour or two. I'm ok with it. I'll come back to the game in a year or two when there's more for me to do. I'm on year 2 of not playing much at all but I have hope for the future anyway.

[kapn655321]

I'm still here.