weeding out the vets?

[DrakeWurrum]

10 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Let's not beat around the bush here. It absolutely was a nerf. It was absolutely deserved, and it should have been done 3 years ago, but it was a nerf. 

No, it's not.

It's a nerf to specific builds that basically cheesed certain broken mechanics.

It's a major buff to a lot of builds that people did not previously use.

Just because your build was nerfed, doesn't mean all melee was nerfed.

Edited November 3, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Acos]

23 hours ago, jojokaizer said:

 is this DE's way of getting rid of the vets and paving a way for new players with new monetization systems and grind? 

Doesn't seem to be working if it is. 

You might be new so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; DE releases content when it feels ready to player feedback and then adapts the content to the feedback. If you aren't 100% satisfied with something yet try to ease off the salt mines and just express your opinions. We all get passionate about the game, but speaking as a 'vet', it gets really tired watching people engage in hyperbole every content update. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Acos

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

Funny thing is, I haven't even had to change that much.  CO is still a great mod for just using melee, flat crit and crit chance mods have more values than Blood rush in most cases, and now I build for Corrosive and Heat more due to changes in heat damage. 

You are technically correct that flat crit chance mods have more initial values than blood rush. But Flat crit mods are eclipsed heavily by blood rush currently. It's quite easy to get your combo multiplier up even a paltry amount, in which case 2 stacks of blood rush (max 11) are already better than every other flat crit mod in the game.

If you're using pressure point. true steel, or any variation therein other than Condition overload and blood rush, you're doing it wrong.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[DrakeWurrum]

27 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

in which case 2 stacks of blood rush (max 11)

The max combo counter is 12, actually.

You get 0 benefit from Blood Rush at first, but at 2 combo counter, you have 2 stacks of it.

[Shinigami_Greed]

27 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

You are technically correct that flat crit chance mods have more initial values than blood rush. But Flat crit mods are eclipsed heavily by blood rush currently. It's quite easy to get your combo multiplier up even a paltry amount, in which case 2 stacks of blood rush (max 11) are already better than every other flat crit mod in the game.

If you're using pressure point. true steel, or any variation therein other than Condition overload and blood rush, you're doing it wrong.

My problem with that is the same as it's always been; all crit and no damage give my weapons a dull edge.  Blood Rush is still VERY expensive as far as mod slots go, and I can't be bothered to forma every weapon to accommodate it.  Now though, at least crit chance doesn't help Blood rush, so I don't have to use another weapon slot on it.

Still, I'd rather just stack damage/status mods with CO... and more damage.  Feels better to me.

[Skaleek]

4 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

The max combo counter is 12, actually.

You get 0 benefit from Blood Rush at first, but at 2 combo counter, you have 2 stacks of it.

No. This is incorrect. The max number of Blood rush stacks you can have is 11. Same with Weeping wounds. Go test it, there is a UI indicator to show you your stacks now.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[DrakeWurrum]

2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

No. This is incorrect. The max number of Blood rush stacks you can have is 11.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Melee#Combo_Multiplier

The Bonus Damage Multiplier starts at 2.0x after 20 consecutive hits. The multiplier is increased by +1.0x every consecutive 20 hits until 220 consecutive hits have been made, at which point the bonus damage multiplier will cap at 12.0x.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_Rush

Quote

Combo Multiplier: This is the multiplier from your melee hit counter, starting at 2x with 20 hits and improving by +1x each combo level, up to 12x at 220 hits.

Edited November 3, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Skaleek]

 

2 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Combo Multiplier: This is the multiplier from your melee hit counter, starting at 2x with 20 hits and improving by +1x each combo level, up to 12x at 220 hits.

Read your own quote closely. Or test it if you don't believe me.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[DrakeWurrum]

2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

 

Read your own quote closely.

The way Blood Rush has always worked is that it isn't active until you have 2x combo multiplier.

It even says so on the wiki.

Quote

Combo Multipliers (No Critical Chance Increase at 1x)

Edited November 3, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Skaleek]

22 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

The way Blood Rush has always worked is that it isn't active until you have 2x combo multiplier.

It even says so on the wiki.

You get your first stack at 2x and it increases by 1 from there. netting you 11 stacks at 12x multiplier. Go test it.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Skaleek

[ebrl]

12 hours ago, Lucifer490 said:

I DESPISE this mindset of "maybe DE didn't want this" 

They left those mods in the game untouched for about 3 years.You don't give the player base something for that long, allow them to invest hundreds of hours into making builds around those mods and then heavily nerf them coz they were "unintended".

It's still better than not fixing it for another three years. I despise *your* mindset in return!

[BLI7Z]

I just hate that they ruined the fluidity of the Life Strike + Channeling experience. Channeling should have been polished and made more useful instead of being removed for heavy attacks. 

I don't like the new mechanics. I've been playing since 5 years ago. I won't be touching again Warframe. There are so many games I can play, Warframe just isn't what I want because they destroyed my gamestyle and my way to survive with squishy Warframes in a fluid combat way. I won't be using tanky Warframes, or play in the way THEY want. I created my own gamestyle and now it is impossible.

Time to move on after all this time. Nothing lasts forever. I just wish I didn't spend so much money here to get this pile of crap for reward at the end of it. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Why are so many of you so toxic?  I see the "haha" reacts and condescending replies that you trolls are putting on everyone's posts where they state their opinion that they don't like they changes; that they feel slighted by them because it's a direct nerf to them and to something that's been in the game for so long.  You're all happy and gloating that someone else's fun got taken away because the fun was "unintended."  Seriously?

OP fighting level 400 enemies with his meta builds affected NONE of you.  Zero.  Goose Egg.  The worst thing that happened to any of you because of someone playing with a meta build is someone ran through your PUB fissure and killed everything before you could get to it with your stug, or whatever it is you people like to use for "fun."  Not a single one of you has any viable, sound argument for why the nerfs are a good thing for the player base other than "muh devs intentions" and "people should have fun how I have fun because other people having fun their way offends me."  That's it.  That's you guys whole entire argument, and it sucks.

Now give me my laugh reacts.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Why are so many of you so toxic?  I see the "haha" reacts and condescending replies that you trolls are putting on everyone's posts where they state their opinion that they don't like they changes; that they feel slighted by them because it's a direct nerf to them and to something that's been in the game for so long.  You're all happy and gloating that someone else's fun got taken away because the fun was "unintended."  Seriously?

OP fighting level 400 enemies with his meta builds affected NONE of you.  Zero.  Goose Egg.  The worst thing that happened to any of you because of someone playing with a meta build is someone ran through your PUB fissure and killed everything before you could get to it with your stug, or whatever it is you people like to use for "fun."  Not a single one of you has any viable, sound argument for why the nerfs are a good thing for the player base other than "muh devs intentions" and "people should have fun how I have fun because other people having fun their way offends me."  That's it.  That's you guys whole entire argument, and it sucks.

Now give me my laugh reacts.

I wouldn't blame them, they know not what they do, lol.  The real culprit is DE themselves... They say one thing, while doing another giving extremely mixed-signals that form factions.  Add to that their cowardice in not taking control and fixing long-broken elements of the game that many have grown absolutely attached to, and you end up with this massive rift.  Had they nerfed Maiming/Weeping/BR/CO when it was apparent they were way too powerful (especially in concert) in the weeks after the realization that they needed to be toned down we wouldn't have this mess.  "Herr Derr, cry some more that your memeing crutch got nerfed" is directly related to DE's inaction, letting the rot set it, and dividing the community on a subject that should never have been allowed to get this out of control.

[DrakeWurrum]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Why are so many of you so toxic?  I see the "haha" reacts and condescending replies that you trolls are putting on everyone's posts where they state their opinion that they don't like they changes; that they feel slighted by them because it's a direct nerf to them and to something that's been in the game for so long.  You're all happy and gloating that someone else's fun got taken away because the fun was "unintended."  Seriously?

OP fighting level 400 enemies with his meta builds affected NONE of you.  Zero.  Goose Egg.  The worst thing that happened to any of you because of someone playing with a meta build is someone ran through your PUB fissure and killed everything before you could get to it with your stug, or whatever it is you people like to use for "fun."  Not a single one of you has any viable, sound argument for why the nerfs are a good thing for the player base other than "muh devs intentions" and "people should have fun how I have fun because other people having fun their way offends me."  That's it.  That's you guys whole entire argument, and it sucks.

Now give me my laugh reacts.

Nobody's gloating.

You're also making no sense. You're suggesting that they could've implemented the changes for those of us who enjoy playing with the new system, and somehow also keep the old design that made the old one-shot meme-strike type meta possible.

Maim Strike is now simply a useful mod. Not an OP mod that makes all other builds pointless.

My response to you is this: Why you crying so much about DE changing up the meta? You're the ones getting emotional about this. I seriously do not see any good argument for why it shouldn't have changed. "They left it alone for so long" is not a good argument.

Edited November 3, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[BLI7Z]

20 hours ago, JohnDrone said:

After building an Inaros hunter adrenaline+life strike+melee crit setup for 2 years i feel kinda big deal that life strike is useless now. But the rabbithole is way deeper. Because the real issue is not that a specific mod/build is not as effective as im getting used to or that a couple numbers has changed in an equation. Or that i used to do a good 1h void/mot runs and enjoy an exciting melee fight with fluid and spectacular combos but i simply cant anymore. Because the heavy attack system is a joke (multiplier resets to 0 after a single heavy attack which renders your melee useless, and no u cant raise your multiplier again if u reset it after a certain enemy lvl coz u cant kill enemies with a 0 multiplier), and there are no more combos. Or wait there are... With crimson dervish you can do forward+e wich makes a swirl and a right click+e which makes a jump slam somewhere at random. Yes there are some other possible combos but every single time i tried to use any other button/click combination the result was a perfectly random (unpredictable) useless ugly lame stumbling without hitting enemies. So now instead of a nice long 7 or more steps of fluid and spectacular combo i have 2 basic attacks: a whirlwind and a jump attack. Besides i dont have the comfort of life strike anymore. Furthermore i tried some other melee weapons as well, different modding with similar results. Ie i used to kill some bosses with my kestrel (with a riven) with 3 hits, now i couldnt kill a lvl30 infested with it. Also every single time when i was pressing E with kestrel equipped, something perfetly random bs happened. My frame was either hitting or swirling with it or throwing it.

Is it still possible to stay for 1h or more in void mot? Yeah for sure. Are there some other efficient melee builds? I can imagine. Could i use an other frame with better results? Absolutely. But i dont care. Because i had a part of the game what i used to enjoy and made my day better while offered me some pleasant entertainment. Now i dont have it. Why should i use something what i dont enjoy? Isnt the game supposed to be fun?

Its not about nerfing coz enemy lvl basicly is only a number floating above the enemy, its about that the melee is not enjoyable anymore for me. I can understand, maintaining the servers for hours+ for a couple players is expensive, but pls dont want to tell me that DE needs money so much that they have to give up their famous player friendly policy.

After 2y DE S#&$ting on my face and it hurts. 

I feel exactly the same. And I am sure there's a lot of people feeling the same.

Maybe DE forgot that many long time players will still be putting lots of money into their game. They are relying on getting newer players... when they should the long time ones stay and making us feel rewarded for playing their game for so long and putting so much money into it. 

But well, it doesn't surprise me in any way. The world works like this, and DE is just another company in this hell. 

My only way to show them what I think, other than writing in the forums... is just not paying them anymore for platinum, and playing less and less until they fix this mess. 

[George_PPS]

53 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

I just hate that they ruined the fluidity of the Life Strike + Channeling experience. Channeling should have been polished and made more useful instead of being removed for heavy attacks. 

I don't like the new mechanics. I've been playing since 5 years ago. I won't be touching again Warframe. There are so many games I can play, Warframe just isn't what I want because they destroyed my gamestyle and my way to survive with squishy Warframes in a fluid combat way. I won't be using tanky Warframes, or play in the way THEY want. I created my own gamestyle and now it is impossible.

Time to move on after all this time. Nothing lasts forever. I just wish I didn't spend so much money here to get this pile of crap for reward at the end of it. 

Well said.

The overall fluidity of the gameplay is trashed, which is the signature and the best character of Warframe. it's is especially apparent to the synergy between weapons. it's used to be so fast and we could switch between guns and melee to apply status, if we want to, to enemies, or we can attack and move on.  Now it feels like we are chained or glued to the ground, no longer moving as fast as racing if we want to. We are now forced to move at a slower pace, kill at a slower pace, outputing much less damage than before. 

This is not Warframe.

[George_PPS]

53 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

I feel exactly the same. And I am sure there's a lot of people feeling the same.

Maybe DE forgot that many long time players will still be putting lots of money into their game. They are relying on getting newer players... when they should the long time ones stay and making us feel rewarded for playing their game for so long and putting so much money into it. 

But well, it doesn't surprise me in any way. The world works like this, and DE is just another company in this hell. 

My only way to show them what I think, other than writing in the forums... is just not paying them anymore for platinum, and playing less and less until they fix this mess. 

Exact same feeling. MR27 and 4000+ in game hours. I always pay cash buy cosmetic items because it's fun to play when it feels so powerful so I also want the look to match the power. But DE has been nerfng the fun factors of the game for a while and now it is destroyed. Many of my veteran and hardcore player friends have quit playing it. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by George_PPS

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

I wouldn't blame them, they know not what they do, lol.  The real culprit is DE themselves... They say one thing, while doing another giving extremely mixed-signals that form factions.  Add to that their cowardice in not taking control and fixing long-broken elements of the game that many have grown absolutely attached to, and you end up with this massive rift.  Had they nerfed Maiming/Weeping/BR/CO when it was apparent they were way too powerful (especially in concert) in the weeks after the realization that they needed to be toned down we wouldn't have this mess.  "Herr Derr, cry some more that your memeing crutch got nerfed" is directly related to DE's inaction, letting the rot set it, and dividing the community on a subject that should never have been allowed to get this out of control.

I don't mind change in games.  If they want to totally rework the game from what they made:  a hoard mode power fantasy, into what they "intended": a tactical stealth shooter where every enemy encounter matters, that's fine with me.  But the enemies need a nerf and a rework that coincides with the player nerfs.  I'm not mad about BR/MS/CO exactly, I'm mad that they took away the most effective way to deal with some of the BS they throw at us in the higher tier play modes without providing another avenue to slog through said BS, or nerfing said BS.  And all the "DE can do no wrong" crowd can do is scream "muh intended gameplay" in every thread.  THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GODDAMN INTENTIONS.  They just wildly flail about with their game design.  You can literally tell who was playing what other games in their free time by looking at what they put in any given update.  It's just whatever systems from other games they think would be good at the time all slapped together onto good core mechanics.  You can tell there are no long-term intentions because every time they release new content, they have to turn existing systems in the game off in order to balance it.  Prime example:  Exploiter Orb fight, you can't target anything with Mesa's Peacemaker.  An ability that they put into the game gets flat out turned off because it would unbalance what they wanted to do with the fight.  They want so hard to push a CC meta and refuse to let go of the idea of CC being viable, and yet every new enemy they put in the game is just flat out immune to most CC.  And I'm supposed to care about their "intentions" for past content?  They don't even care.  And if they #*!%ing play-tested the game beyond having the community managers do it in low level missions, one time on stream, then they would understand their "intentions" weren't being executed properly.

[George_PPS]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Why are so many of you so toxic?  I see the "haha" reacts and condescending replies that you trolls are putting on everyone's posts where they state their opinion that they don't like they changes; that they feel slighted by them because it's a direct nerf to them and to something that's been in the game for so long.  You're all happy and gloating that someone else's fun got taken away because the fun was "unintended."  Seriously?

OP fighting level 400 enemies with his meta builds affected NONE of you.  Zero.  Goose Egg.  The worst thing that happened to any of you because of someone playing with a meta build is someone ran through your PUB fissure and killed everything before you could get to it with your stug, or whatever it is you people like to use for "fun."  Not a single one of you has any viable, sound argument for why the nerfs are a good thing for the player base other than "muh devs intentions" and "people should have fun how I have fun because other people having fun their way offends me."  That's it.  That's you guys whole entire argument, and it sucks.

Now give me my laugh reacts.

Exactly! That DE caving in and appeasing to players who prefer mediocrity is sucking Warframe’s gameplay spirit dry. None-stop nerfing since 18 months ago. Reading spread sheets to decide what’s the best way to take away players fun and hard built weapons if they are too ”power creep” This is a PvE game. it's being destroyed. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by George_PPS

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

I don't mind change in games.  If they want to totally rework the game from what they made:  a hoard mode power fantasy, into what they "intended": a tactical stealth shooter where every enemy encounter matters, that's fine with me.  But the enemies need a nerf and a rework that coincides with the player nerfs.  I'm not mad about BR/MS/CO exactly, I'm mad that they took away the most effective way to deal with some of the BS they throw at us in the higher tier play modes without providing another avenue to slog through said BS, or nerfing said BS.  And all the "DE can do no wrong" crowd can do is scream "muh intended gameplay" in every thread.  THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GODDAMN INTENTIONS.  They just wildly flail about with their game design.  You can literally tell who was playing what other games in their free time by looking at what they put in any given update.  It's just whatever systems from other games they think would be good at the time all slapped together onto good core mechanics.  You can tell there are no long-term intentions because every time they release new content, they have to turn existing systems in the game off in order to balance it.  Prime example:  Exploiter Orb fight, you can't target anything with Mesa's Peacemaker.  An ability that they put into the game gets flat out turned off because it would unbalance what they wanted to do with the fight.  They want so hard to push a CC meta and refuse to let go of the idea of CC being viable, and yet every new enemy they put in the game is just flat out immune to most CC.  And I'm supposed to care about their "intentions" for past content?  They don't even care.  And if they #*!%ing play-tested the game beyond having the community managers do it in low level missions, one time on stream, then they would understand their "intentions" weren't being executed properly.

Couldn't agree more.  It really feels like they don't have a true project lead/manager that is setting a unified direction, and all of the disjointed systems, dead appendages, and straight contradictions in the game kind of makes me think there isn't anyone with a final say over there.  Artistic direction by committee if ever I've seen it... There is so much that is great in this game, and the potential for true greatness is in this patched-together mess; I wouldn't still be playing otherwise.  That true greatness is never going to be at the forefront without strong leadership, and with a cohesive artistic/mechanical direction that is strongly enforced at the top.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

22 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Nobody's gloating.

That's exactly what most of you on the other side of the argument are doing.  "I'm so glad they did this."  "Finally nerfed those spin-to-win players."  "This needed to happen.(but I'm not going to give a reason why, but it's because I hate other people having fun.)"

 

23 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

You're suggesting that they could've implemented the changes for those of us who enjoy playing with the new system, and somehow also keep the old design that made the old one-shot meme-strike type meta possible

Leaving those mods alone would not have excluded you "fun" players from using the combo systems and things that they put in.  You don't have to use the meta, I know that's hard for some of you to understand, but it's not mandatory.  You could have had your system, and the MS/BR/CO meta could have been left alone, and there would have been options.  You would have been able to decide how to build.  Only the parts of the game that you people think are "unintentional" and "pointless" are the parts that actually require the meta, so they could have had their fun and you could have had yours and those of us who do both could have gotten to choose.  I know you people hate that though.

 

26 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Maim Strike is now simply a useful mod. Not an OP mod that makes all other builds pointless.

and CO is total trash.  I farmed for 60+ hours in-mission to get that mod to drop and it's pointless now.  I'm sure there will be more of the "totally not laughing at you, but with you" haha reacts for that line alone.  Not that any of you would be that toxic to your fellow players.  No.  Heaven forbid.

 

 

29 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I seriously do not see any good argument for why it shouldn't have changed.

It not only didn't have to happen, as I've already stated, but high mobility with high damage is absolutely necessary for high level play.  Arbitrations, Disruption, and ESO all require high kill speed.  Not because "git gud".  I'm not going to die repeatedly without my spin to win or my redeemer prime.  But I'm going to kill slower, and that can result in failure for several of the endgame mission types.  You can't CC a demolisher for longer than 4 seconds, and not at all without a lockdown arcane.  They push a CC meta and then make everything immune to CC, and they and all of you tell us we don't need ridiculous damage to make up for the engineered inability to actually use warframe powers on several enemies.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Let's not beat around the bush here. It absolutely was a nerf. It was absolutely deserved, and it should have been done 3 years ago, but it was a nerf. 

You're just using that word because it's a buzzword. A nerf is something that probably didnt deserve it. Adjusting a clear outlier is not a nerf. The term you're looking for is possibly: "adjustment", "brought in-line", "a fix" etc.

 

Yea, it's fun to use overpowered things. It's ok to admit, but it had to be done, just like people had to fight for a 40hr work week: yea.....humans are op....so op that businesses can take advantage of them and work them to suicide.....so I guess we'll just "nerf" free market capitalism lol. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

14 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Reading spread sheets to decide 

That's the part that really frustrates me.  Rather than play the game and figure out why people are all using one thing over others, or even just looking at more than one set of data, like where a specific weapon is seeing the most use so you can figure out if it's an issue with the game type, they look at literally just one number, and nerf it.  You know where I saw the most catchmoons?  Arbitration.  Those stupid drones are not only a pain to hit, but half the time they're hiding behind the enemies that they're making invincible.  It's a horrible mechanic, and people use catchmoon/plasmor/fulmin to negate the stupid mechanic.  

Conveniently though, they noticed that literally everyone was using a specific gun, and decided to nerf not the damage, but the range, right before they decided to announce weapon exilus slots (Available in the market right now, only 20p!) and mods that fit in those slots that you could conveniently use to increase the range they just nerfed without screwing your build up.  Funny how that happens.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

1 minute ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

You know where I saw the most catchmoons?  Arbitration. 

That's all I used it for aside from eidolons.  Even with eidolons I never used it until they broke the already woefully underpowered amps a few updates ago.  So it went from a 1-2 shot on a vom to 5-7 shots, with a glided x27 and virtuous fury... Next best thing?  Switch to a catchmoon to ghost them, making the fights quicker.  I'd love to see the exact content everyone was using it on, especially those at MR20+