Condition Overload + Pressure Point additive formula is where the nerf went too far.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

On 2019-11-04 at 2:23 PM, Cloudyvisage said:

I mean, 360% damage that is very easy to get on almost any weapon? Even slightly buffing that by making it multiplicative at any level would be... a bit much.

Before I get into this, I want to stress one thing. The broken part of the Mod (the stacks themselves behaving exponentially) has been fixed. I don't believe we are in broken territory anymore by just talking about the Pressure Point issue.

So you've used +360% Damage as your number of reference (3 status effects presumably). So, with a Primed Pressure Point in the build, the actual benefit of using Condition Overload is *Edit* about half as much as if it applied Multiplicatively (check one of my newer posts for the explanation of that). That's what diminishing returns does. So, not only is it much worse, it's somewhat deceptive of its actual benefit.

What if the Mod just straight up gave you +360% more Damage regardless of what Pressure Point is doing? That's a lot closer to what a lot of these Crit weapons are getting with their Multiplicative Critical Damage modifiers (Using Organ Shatter & etc.)

Also, Pressure Point getting pushed out of builds isn't happening because CO is so good. It's happening because people want CO to be Multiplicative like before, and are using more desperate methods to get it to work that way (it's like some Chromas skipping Serration). Pressure Point or CO getting pushed out of builds doesn't need to happen though. When they work together Multiplicatively, they would actually be pretty comparable to Crit Multipliers x Pressure Point.

On 2019-11-04 at 2:23 PM, Cloudyvisage said:

Basically, it's still strong now, buffing it at all is merely trying to revive the glory of it's previous incarnation, which should stay buried and, ideally, forgotten as fast as possible.

The the glory of it's previous incarnation came from the exponential stacks. That's gone, and not in the conversation to bring it back. So implying that it can't be adjusted from here reads to me as being overly conservative. We shouldn't bury the issue if the players aren't satisfied, and there are good reasons to change it.

Edited November 6, 2019 by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_

[Kontrollo]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

So you've used +360% Damage as your number of reference (3 status effects presumably). So, with a Primed Pressure Point in the build, the actual benefit of Condition Overload is more like ~+135%. That's what diminishing returns does. That's so much less than +360%. So, not only is it much worse, it's somewhat deceptive of its actual benefit.

It's still an additional 3.6 times the base damage. It's only "diminishing returns" in terms of multipliers, i.e. on an exponential scale. Honestly, you should find a better term for what you're trying to express.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

On 2019-11-04 at 1:28 AM, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

People don't actually believe this, do they?

They do, I totally believe that their intention, right from the start, was to have a warframe where you'd have to dedicate one slot, from the very limited configuration slot pool, to a build that's the same, but without serration.

That was a lot easier and more convenient than just adjusting the multiplicative values right from the start.

It obviously went like:

'This new warframe has to buff for a thousand'

'A thousand what jimmy?'

'A Thousand percent', 'Make it a thousand percent base damage though, so it's not multiplied by serration'

'But Jimmy, isn't it easier to just adjust that value to 600 or 700% and leave players use their regular builds?'

'No kyle, players want 1000%, that's what they want, I know the players and I can totally play my game, do it'

That day kyle coded the 1000% jimmy wanted, but without the additive stupidity, that day kyle put his job on the line for us.

Kyle sweeps the streets today, Kyle will forever be a hero.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by (PS4)cdzbrbr

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-11-03 at 5:08 AM, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

However, that's not all that changed. They took it a step further than that. Condition Overload damage now applies under the same modifier type as Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike type mods. CO will now add to these types of modifiers instead of multiplying by them. It's somewhat difficult to explain without going into a lot more detail, but this makes Condition Overload so very much worse than it would have been. Making the mod additive to Pressure Point type mods is just excessive overbalancing.

While I realise this will come across as rude, I have to say - good! Easily the main source of balance issues in Warframe is the way damage buffs stack. The game has so many of "categories" of multiplicative damage buffs that you can get absolutely absurd stat increases. Condition Overload aside, ranged weapons still stack base damage buffs on top of elemental damage buffs on top of critical buffs, and they also then stack headshots and critical headshots on top of that, and probably a few more categories I don't remember. What this leads to is total damage multipliers in the "hundreds of times" range. No system can be balanced, where the game gun can deal 20 damage and 4000 damage per shot in the hands of different people. That's why DE are having to resort to 95% and more damage resistance on enemies.

I maintain that the only even remotely realistic way to bring even a semblance of balance to Warframe is to do exactly what they did to Condition Overload: compact all of the game's damage buffs from all of the various sources into a single additive pool. Yes, that's going to have the effect of massively nerfing quite literally everything so a change that major ought to come with a redesign of enemy level scaling as well and I know for a fact not everyone's going to like it. However, I can hardly blame DE for trying to walk their way towards that end goal. Multiplicative scaling of buffs is always a bad idea in every game it shows up in simply because of how rapidly it can cascade stats past any ability to balance them to a reasonable extent. Warframe is more or less MADE OF buff stacking, and that's what sits at the root of damn near all the balance problems.

[Numerikuu]

On 2019-11-03 at 6:26 AM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

I agree with OP and the biggest difference of CO vs meme strike and Bloodrush is that CO worked as a tool to escalate damage against one specific target that is very hard to kill (one had to apply tons of statuses to that target and go on hitting it to get all from CO, but when target is switched - CO power is gone and has to be built up again). I was ok with that and even used some status secondaries for that purpose, and it felt good to switch fast between weapons. Now CO barely helps to kill targets in index 2-3 rounds.

I just wish there was some better scaling when you hit insanely heavy targets for an extended time, adding status effects from other sources to bring that enemy down.

^This. 100% agreed.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Numerikuu

[Raikh]

The problem isn't exactly that CO is too weak now. In the current context of the game I agree its a bit silly for CO to also be additive to PPP and similar effects but alot oft those issues still stem from how broken the context is.

Armor stills cales with enemy level. Shouldn't be a thing, at all. Give mobs more health,give them steeper health scaling, whatever, armor reaching excessive levels warps the game and was what even created demand for the original version of CO:

Don't make enemies status immune. We have fresh examples of both the Kuva Liches and atleast partly their Thralls being status immune. Status is not only important to strip armor but procs like slash, gas, toxin and now also heat provide significant damage increases and you also are modding for status. If suddenly specifc enemies in a mission are immune to your mods essentially you will eventually run into problems ocne armor is stacked high enough. It brutally promotes raw dmg crit builds with the fitting element to go past a singificant amount of armor via radiation vs alloy and corrosive vs ferrite.
It just discriminates a whole bunch of weapons who have status as their primary source and heavily promotes the already very storng crit weapons while also spitting on build making as simple weakness slotting isn't particularly intricate and your choices are narrowed down so brutally that there is even abrely any choice elft. Which elads tot he last issues.

Mod redundancy is reaching ridiculous levels. As long as Blood Rush is additive with other crit mods all other crits mods will be irrelevant. Its a dead mod and a dead roll on a riven more. If we had crit mods in the range of 300% then MAYBE we could make argument about Blood Rush ramp and combo dependancy etc etc but even a decent riven with 120% just falls flat on its face against the 660% Blood Rush provides.
Similarly CO makes PPP and other similar mods insignificant and a dead slot. The issue here is doubled by havign as mentioned above status immune enemies. So if you really optimize and run CO w/o then you might run into an enemy you hit for 5 because your entire mod setup does nothing. Come back with a crit rad weapon and slam them for 20k a piece, its completely ridiculous. Similarly running PPP insetad of CO is not an option because then your damage in general is just so much weaker that you mgiht as well not bother at all.
It also now creates terrible situations for frames with damage buffs that are additive to PPP and CO like Chroma.

You don't make builds that make sense for your weapon and maybe adjust elements to fit your enemies to gain a bit of an extra edge. You go through a check list of things that don't work in a aprticular mission and slam in the few mods that still work.

It isn't as much of an issue for regular missions with the status immunity but generally speaking beforehand you never really had the issue overall so clearly visible because the broken scaling of Blood Rush and CO countered the broken enemy scaling. Now with melee reigned in these issues stick out like a sore thumb and changes need to happen and the increasing mod redundancy doesn't help.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Raikh

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

11 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

While I realise this will come across as rude, I have to say - good! Easily the main source of balance issues in Warframe is the way damage buffs stack. The game has so many of "categories" of multiplicative damage buffs that you can get absolutely absurd stat increases. Condition Overload aside, ranged weapons still stack base damage buffs on top of elemental damage buffs on top of critical buffs, and they also then stack headshots and critical headshots on top of that, and probably a few more categories I don't remember. What this leads to is total damage multipliers in the "hundreds of times" range. No system can be balanced, where the game gun can deal 20 damage and 4000 damage per shot in the hands of different people. That's why DE are having to resort to 95% and more damage resistance on enemies.

I maintain that the only even remotely realistic way to bring even a semblance of balance to Warframe is to do exactly what they did to Condition Overload: compact all of the game's damage buffs from all of the various sources into a single additive pool. Yes, that's going to have the effect of massively nerfing quite literally everything so a change that major ought to come with a redesign of enemy level scaling as well and I know for a fact not everyone's going to like it. However, I can hardly blame DE for trying to walk their way towards that end goal. Multiplicative scaling of buffs is always a bad idea in every game it shows up in simply because of how rapidly it can cascade stats past any ability to balance them to a reasonable extent. Warframe is more or less MADE OF buff stacking, and that's what sits at the root of damn near all the balance problems.

So you kill the base mods that weren't ever a problem, in fact, a good portion of them still needed buffs like true steel and make the really OP mods even more OP by comparison?

Ok then, that was huuuuge stretch.

I'll tell you what happened with 100% accuracy: DE was too afraid to kill or properly nerf the op mods, kinda like chroma, so they nerfed its interaction with a random mod, which will serve no nerf purpose in the end other than to be an inconvenience, limit player choice by rendering more mods, because players are already circumventing that, like we did with chroma - just replace serration - 

[iSolement]

Essentially what I’m thinking, if they want no red-crit melees they could just reduce the value on BR , instead of ruining all rivens with cc chance and making sacrificed steel a useless mod.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

I don’t want to confuse anyone with what I’m trying to say about this math. So I’ll provide the simplest example that I can.

Let’s say I have a weapon with a base Damage of 1. Then I’m going to mod it with Primed Pressure Point which is +165% damage. Then I’m going to Mod it with Condition Overload, and for this scenario we are going to say we have 3 Status Procs on the enemy. So, that’s +360% Damage. Let’s see what the Damage is if Pressure Point and Condition Overload are additive, then Multiplicative.

Additive:

1 * (1 + 1.65 + 3.6) = 6.25

Multiplicative:

1 * (1 + 1.65) * (1 + 3.6) = 12.19

 

So, the Additive Formula cuts the damage about in half for this very plausible scenario. That’s a big nerf. People need to understand that. Let me repeat this type of representation for a Critical Weapon.

Let’s say a Crit Weapon is going to reach 100% Critical Chance (which is common for good Crit Weapons). And for the sake of example, let’s just say it’s exactly 100%, so the Critical Damage applies equally all the time with no Orange Crits (there is chance involved with Crit Weapons, so this simplifies the estimate). And let’s say the weapon gets 4.75x Critical Damage Multiplier with Organ Shatter (that's a starting Crit Multiplier of 2.5, also common for good Crit Weapons). Then we also Mod it with Primed Pressure Point. Again, Base Damage of 1:

1 * (1 + 1.65) * 4.75 = 12.59

 

See how the numbers are a lot closer when Condition Overload is calculated Multiplicatively.

12.19 vs. 12.59

And remember, this doesn’t even account for Blood Rush weapons that can scale even higher into Orange/Red Crit territory. Plus, then CO can also have some extra scaling to match Orange/Red Crits when good Status weapons get more procs. It works out. Making CO multiplicative just makes it compare to Crit Weapons better. It’s not unbalanced, it’s more balanced.

p.s. I think I'm going to edit this into the 1st post to make my reasoning more clear.

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

On 2019-11-03 at 5:32 AM, Caramello said:

I think its only fair, what would be the point of nerfing spin-to-win to the ground because it was "the only option for melee" if all it would do was make everybody use condition overload builds?

People asked for balance, and now everything is balanced, everything is mediocre, next time people should think about what they want better.

Maming strike was too nerfed to hard being additive was op unlike CO that was mamings problem but now with a 30% base crit it adds 45% which is half of the old value, that would ve fine if it scaled blood rush but it doesnt which means its now worthless

So either make it 300% that doesnt scale wouldnt be my choice tho 

Making it scale blood rush with half its old value or less only on crit heavy weapons would be better 

[ciTiger]

I hope they look into this.

[ciTiger]

Melee just got reworked and the Liches got a hotfix yesterday, it isn't looking too good for CO.

[Kontrollo]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

I don’t want to confuse anyone with what I’m trying to say about this math. So I’ll provide the simplest example that I can.

...

Just to clarify, I'm not confused by the math.

But you might want to talk about why multiplicative logic should be justified in this case. Talking about "diminishing returns" is definitely the wrong angle.

Let's compare the multipliers on some mods just by themselves:

• Primed Pressure Point: +165% = x2.65
• Primed Fury: +55% = x1.55
• Berserker: 0-3 procs up to + 75% = x1.75
• Vanilla Elemental Mod: +90% = x1.9
• Primed Fever Strike: +165% = x2.65
• Condition Overload: 0-3 procs up to +360% = x4.6 (!)

 

So what this boils down to is: how is having a separate class (= multiplier) in every single slot a necessity? That just makes certain mods mandatory. "Because higher numbers"? They reshuffled the whole system and increased base stats, too. Not to mention you get additional benefits from status procs, to boot.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Kontrollo
typo

[Steel_Rook]

17 hours ago, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

I'll tell you what happened with 100% accuracy: DE was too afraid to kill or properly nerf the op mods, kinda like chroma, so they nerfed its interaction with a random mod, which will serve no nerf purpose in the end other than to be an inconvenience, limit player choice by rendering more mods, because players are already circumventing that, like we did with chroma - just replace serration - 

It's not a matter of the interaction "with a random mod." It's a matter of the way buffs stack. Multiplicative buffs always lead to increasing returns and cascading stats to the point where the system itself is unable to handle them. Additive buffs, by contrast, lead to naturally diminishing returns and thus keep stats within comparatively much smaller bounds, even if they're theoretically uncapped. The more damage mods end up being additive with each other, the easier the game will be to balance, should DE choose to do so. Multiplicative mods are always a bad idea and always cause balance issues down the line, especially if you keep adding more additive categories. The issue here isn't Condition Overload. I'd argue that the very same thing should apply to base + elemental damage mods and indeed...

12 hours ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

See how the numbers are a lot closer when Condition Overload is calculated Multiplicatively.

12.19 vs. 12.59

...to critical hits, headshots, critical headshots and weakpoint hits. Yes, you're absolutely right here - a multiplicative damage buff based on status stacks is comparable to critical damage, because critical damage itself is multiplicative with base damage. Your formula is incorrect because Condition Overload used to be multiplicative with itself so you'd get (1 + 0.6)^status_types so you'd get close to a *17 multiplier just from that mod, but the point stands - both are multiplicative. I'd argue the solution, however, is the reverse. Rather than leaving Condition Overload multiplicative, I'm of the opinion that critical damage, headshot damage, critical headshot damage and weakpoint damage should ALL be additive along with all the other damage buffs from base damage mods and elemental damage mods and abilities and such. Runaway cascading stats are the issue, because they're the reason why Grineer armour has to scale to ridiculous levels.

If you're interested in the math, look at how effective health is modelled as a function of armour. Effective health as a function of damage resistance leads to increasing returns, but resistance as a function of armour was coded specifically to lead to diminishing returns. Once you solve for armour, the returns flatten out, so damage resistance as a function of armour gives you literally linear returns. Yes, going from 0 to 300 armour will give you 50% damage resistance while going from 1200 to 1500 will only add ~3%, but the effect this has on effective health (going from 0 to 50 and from 80 to 83.333) is the same. In other words, whoever sat down to code armour in Warframe went out of their way to avoid the natural increasing returns from damage resistance, but whoever sat down to code damage buff stacking apparently didn't get that memo. That's why you see armour values themselves cascade as enemy level increases far in excess of a linear progression. They designed a perfectly good armour system, then had to break it in order to keep up with their broken damage buff system.

As I said initially - the solution isn't to make everything cascade into absurdity. The solution is to stop things from cascading in the first place, damage before anything else.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Your formula is incorrect because Condition Overload used to be multiplicative with itself so you'd get (1 + 0.6)^status_types so you'd get close to a *17 multiplier just from that mod

First, I want to clear up that this is just a misunderstanding. I'm not recommending the mod be reverted to its Pre-Update 26 state. So my formula is correct for what I'm recommending. I'm saying that the Stacks of Condition Overload should keep their current Additive calculation to each other. However, the stacks should not also apply Additively on top of Pressure Point, but instead exist on a separate Multiplier from Pressure Point. That is exactly what my formula actually says, and I've double-checked that a few times to make sure it's correct.

I'll go ahead and show you one of my quotes from earlier, as I already talked about this:

On 2019-11-04 at 1:04 PM, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

I've already said a few times that I think it's fine for the Stacks of Condition Overload to stack additively with each other. That was what was making the mod OP before. That's gone, and it's totally fine.

But I don't think anyone has come up with a good reason why the Mod should stack additively with Pressure Point, which creates even more diminishing returns. The OP part of the Mod was already fixed, so the double-nerf was just too much.

 

But next lets talk a little more about what you're recommending.

 

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The issue here isn't Condition Overload. I'd argue that the very same thing should apply to base + elemental damage mods and indeed...

...to critical hits, headshots, critical headshots and weakpoint hits. Yes, you're absolutely right here - a multiplicative damage buff based on status stacks is comparable to critical damage, because critical damage itself is multiplicative with base damage.

On 2019-11-05 at 5:26 AM, Steel_Rook said:

I maintain that the only even remotely realistic way to bring even a semblance of balance to Warframe is to do exactly what they did to Condition Overload: compact all of the game's damage buffs from all of the various sources into a single additive pool. Yes, that's going to have the effect of massively nerfing quite literally everything so a change that major ought to come with a redesign of enemy level scaling as well and I know for a fact not everyone's going to like it.

What you're asking for is a lot more radical change than what I'm recommending. If I am clear on what you're saying, you want every Damage Mod type in the game to be consolidated into one Additive pool of buffs. This is basically an entirely different conversation. In fact, it's basically your own idea for Damage 3.0.

Are players going to go for that? Is DE even going to entertain that idea? All of that is highly speculative.

However, like you said "a multiplicative damage buff based on status stacks is comparable to critical damage, because critical damage itself is multiplicative with base damage."

So for the current landscape of the game, it makes more sense to keep the Additive CO stacks, but revert the change where CO is additive with Pressure Point.

And if DE is going to pursue a Damage 3.0 (which probably won't look anything like what you're recommending), then we should cross that bridge when we come to it. Instead of nerfing Condition Overload now (without making other changes to the game) and leaving CO weaker until they have an opportunity to fix everything later.

However, I really don't think that DE is ever going to consolidate all Damage Mods in the game into an additive pool. Imagine all of the holes that would be poked in that idea if it was ever brought to a serious conversation. People would find all sorts of reasons we shouldn't do that. So you have a lot to defend on that front.

For now, this is the game that we have. And it makes more sense for CO to be Multiplicative with Pressure Point right now.

Edited November 6, 2019 by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_

[Cibyllae]

On 2019-11-02 at 8:32 PM, Caramello said:

People asked for balance, and now everything is balanced, everything is mediocre, next time people should think about what they want better.

Can we get this quote enshrined?

[Cibyllae]

On 2019-11-04 at 5:15 AM, xxswatelitexx said:

Status based weapons were overpowering Crit.

They weren't overpowering crit/slash though, as the slash status affect was calculated on damage before armor mitigation. That's why maiming strike/slash was insane because you could reach 1mil plus in damage before armor calculations and have the slash status affect doing 350,000 thousand damage every tick as true damage. 

[ADDpillz]

On 2019-11-02 at 11:32 PM, Caramello said:

I think its only fair, what would be the point of nerfing spin-to-win to the ground because it was "the only option for melee" if all it would do was make everybody use condition overload builds?

People asked for balance, and now everything is balanced, everything is mediocre, next time people should think about what they want better.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by ADDpillz

[Cibyllae]

9 minutes ago, ADDpillz said:

 

Spoiler

 

[George_PPS]

On 2019-11-02 at 8:32 PM, Caramello said:

I think its only fair, what would be the point of nerfing spin-to-win to the ground because it was "the only option for melee" if all it would do was make everybody use condition overload builds?

People asked for balance, and now everything is balanced, everything is mediocre, next time people should think about what they want better.

Exactly.  I enjoyed slide attack a lot. It is the best and the most fluidity style I like and can play all day, grind all day. I don't mind DE just buff anything else to the similar level of power. Why nerf it to the ground and make all melees just different skins of similar weapons? Some people say this would create power creep. No, power creep is enjoyable and most pplayers want to see big numbers even if enemies are buffed to a higher degree and harder to kill even with previous meta builds. I wrote this, proposing a much better damage model:

@(PS4)Jedi_Arts_ Please read and study my proposal. It's really awesome. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by George_PPS

[George_PPS]

6 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Just to clarify, I'm not confused by the math.

But you might want to talk about why multiplicative logic should be justified in this case. Talking about "diminishing returns" is definitely the wrong angle.

Let's compare the multipliers on some mods just by themselves:

• Primed Pressure Point: +165% = x2.65
• Primed Fury: +55% = x1.55
• Berserker: 0-3 procs up to + 75% = x1.75
• Vanilla Elemental Mod: +90% = x1.9
• Primed Fever Strike: +165% = x2.65
• Condition Overload: 0-3 procs up to +360% = x4.6 (!)

 

So what this boils down to is: how is having a separate class (= multiplier) in every single slot a necessity? That just makes certain mods mandatory. "Because higher numbers"? They reshuffled the whole system and increased base stats, too. Not to mention you get additional benefits from status procs, to boot.

x4.6 is a "!"? are you serious? CO alone is more than 20000% or x200 times weaker than before. 

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

x4.6 is a "!"? are you serious? CO alone is more than 20000% or x200 times weaker than before. 

Can you compare these numbers against each other or not?

Haven't looked it up now, but I guess the x200 refers to max amount of procs, right? Of course it's weaker than before, when it was broken OP. It was its own multiplier and exponential damage scaling on top. What I really wonder is why it took them so long to rein it in again.

[George_PPS]

11 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Can you compare these numbers against each other or not?

Haven't looked it up now, but I guess the x200 refers to max amount of procs, right? Of course it's weaker than before, when it was broken OP. It was its own multiplier and exponential damage scaling on top. What I really wonder is why it took them so long to rein it in again.

They were options. I had such builds but I don't use them often. I don't even use them in most public squads except long endurance. I see these builds as my Ferraris parked in my garage. But that doesn't mean I won't take them out for a ride sometime. Haven't you found out that DE has been on a nerfing spree for sometime? It's making the game very bored and not rewarding. But it's certainly a good way to weed out some veterans and hardcore players.

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

They were options. I had such builds but I don't use them often. I don't even use them in most public squads except long endurance. I see these builds as my Ferraris parked in my garage. But that doesn't mean I won't take them out for a ride sometime. Haven't you found out that DE has been on a nerfing spree for sometime? It's making the game very bored and not rewarding. But it's certainly a good way to weed out some veterans and hardcore players.

That's your justification for having an over 1000x damage multiplier at max number procs, when Primed Pressure Point itself reaches 2.65x?

To me that sounds like "hey it was just an option, bro". Sorry, but that had me laugh. 😄

[iSolement]

To limit the exceedingly high dps from red crit and CO, there are numerous ways of doing it but they choose a way that makes  all dmg stat/cc stat useless. The primary aim is to “retire” a big part of melee rivens owned by players and therefore provides new incentive to farm kuva and stimulate the revenue from riven system.