Something needs to be done about players who won't attack their lich

[Troll_Logic]

11 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Not everyone goes around with META builds and cheeses the hell out of everything.

You don't need META builds (whatever that is) to kill them and it seems awfully silly to not use WF abilities when that is their defining characteristics. 

11 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

The fact of the matter is if you try and kill it but fail, things just actively get worse for you with nothing to show for it in return. 

There is a huge thing to show for it.  You eliminate a mod.  If there were 60 mods, that would be one thing.  But there are eight.  Eight.  Despite someone else complaining about "brute forcing 336 combinations" it isn't that complicated and they go fast.  

[Troll_Logic]

11 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

"Bad game design with negligible cost to the player's resources to work around" is still BAD GAME DESIGN

No it isn't.  And it isn't even a negligible cost.  A cost of a single credit would be more. 

[WNxMatthew]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

You don't need META builds (whatever that is) to kill them and it seems awfully silly to not use WF abilities when that is their defining characteristics. 

There is a huge thing to show for it.  You eliminate a mod.  If there were 60 mods, that would be one thing.  But there are eight.  Eight.  Despite someone else complaining about "brute forcing 336 combinations" it isn't that complicated and they go fast.  

I am just going from my experiences my man. So far my lich barely shows up, so me just plugging in some mods and hoping for the best doesn't make sense to me. That is all. Nothing else. If yours is all over you like white on rice then good for you you can brute force it.

[Troll_Logic]

11 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

It sometimes happens that I cannot initiate the finisher. 

Has happened to me twice now, 

And once the lich health was grayed out (I know there is a type that has iron skin, mine did not and was having an invulnerable state anyway) 

Also, having a lich seems to increase thrall spawns around it. 

So I keep it alive (if it's survival or exterminate) 

Yeah, I've hit the invulnerable lich and thrall before.

[Troll_Logic]

2 minutes ago, WNxMatthew said:

I am just going from my experiences my man. So far my lich barely shows up, so me just plugging in some mods and hoping for the best doesn't make sense to me. That is all. Nothing else. If yours is all over you like white on rice then good for you you can brute force it.

Ok, I'm going to check my hamburgers and then explain this to you.

They're fine.

Ok, you throw a mod, any mod, into the first slot.  And more if you have them.  Then you play lich or whatever missions you want.

If the lich doesn't show, then everything is fine.  You build up your murmurs along the way.

If the lich show up, you fight him.  You'll probably lose.  But you know that isn't the right mod.  So you swap it.  And DE even keeps track of your combinations.  

After the first one is discovered, you go to the second one.  With any luck at all, you know the first by the time the second is revealed.  That leaves only the third.

 

Now, I know what you're gonna say.  "I don't want to speed through."  And that's fine.  I'm replying to you continually saying

19 minutes ago, WNxMatthew said:

so me just plugging in some mods and hoping for the best doesn't make sense to me.

You're not "hoping for the best."  You're actively working to reveal the mods.

[HugintheCrow]

16 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Something needs to be done about players who won't attack their lich

No. Something needs to be done with the system that makes avoiding the fight the best idea most of the time.

[Firetempest]

The obvious thing to do is avoid the lich when you don't even know a single rune. Its not the players fault for not wanting to unnecessarily expand a lichs territory thus making fewer kuva nodes that won't be stolen from without clearing the planet and spawning the lich more.

Blame the current mechanics for not offering a stalemate mechanic where it gives up after x regenerations. Just make it steal double or triple for that mission if you refuse to engage.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Firetempest

[HugintheCrow]

18 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

No mate, you held everyone hostage when they too wished to progress their lich builds. You refused, holding up the whole point of being there. IF YOU only wanted to run a rescue mission, then run the regular node solo. Everyone else in the Pug group wanted to work together, but not you. YOU wanted it only your way. That is the definition of selfishness. You are being obtuse and intellectually dishonest. 

You do realize you didn't waste their time, you wasted YOUR OWN? you could be in another mission already fighting your lich. But nah, gotta show off muscles.

Lmao. If you want to fight your lich that badly and someone else is "blocking it", just go to the next mission. Every time they don't appear the chance they will next time increases.

[HowDenKing]

The grind for the mods you can only use 3 times is too bad, 
why would I want to engage w/ my lich if I destroy my hard earned mods for it?

DE should either make the mods easier to aquire or change how you engage the lich - at this point the lich just isn't fun to deal with.
Imagine how dumb it must be for new players, encountered a larva on a 20+ mission, now stuck with having to do 80+ missions to even get the chance of getting rid of the lich.

[WNxMatthew]

1 minute ago, HowDenKing said:

The grind for the mods you can only use 3 times is too bad, 
why would I want to engage w/ my lich if I destroy my hard earned mods for it?

DE should either make the mods easier to aquire or change how you engage the lich - at this point the lich just isn't fun to deal with.
Imagine how dumb it must be for new players, encountered a larva on a 20+ mission, now stuck with having to do 80+ missions to even get the chance of getting rid of the lich.

They aren't used if they fail. 

[Firetempest]

4 minutes ago, HowDenKing said:

The grind for the mods you can only use 3 times is too bad, 
why would I want to engage w/ my lich if I destroy my hard earned mods for it?

DE should either make the mods easier to aquire or change how you engage the lich - at this point the lich just isn't fun to deal with.
Imagine how dumb it must be for new players, encountered a larva on a 20+ mission, now stuck with having to do 80+ missions to even get the chance of getting rid of the lich.

The mods only lose a charge for a successful combo. It would take 3 lichs using the same rune to lose one. That's a long time.

And larva only work and spawn for you after TWW. That's past Pluto and mr5 so it's hard to be ignorant unless they were carried.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Firetempest

[HowDenKing]

à l’instant, WNxMatthew a dit :

They aren't used if they fail. 

they're still used if I beat my lich, so I can at best do 3 liches w/ a mod that took way too much to get.

hope for a requem relic to drop in a kuva mission, 

hope it's the RIGHT requiem

hope it drops the right mod you need

hope you don't have to try 3 times to get the combination right because it just wastes time

 

it's too many levels of rng

[WNxMatthew]

5 minutes ago, HowDenKing said:

they're still used if I beat my lich, so I can at best do 3 liches w/ a mod that took way too much to get.

hope for a requem relic to drop in a kuva mission, 

hope it's the RIGHT requiem

hope it drops the right mod you need

hope you don't have to try 3 times to get the combination right because it just wastes time

 

it's too many levels of rng

Well you can have your reasons. I am just stating that fact. Also new players that reach lvl 20+ area won't be finding any liches. They only start finding them after they finish the war within.....or that is how it is supposed to work.

[Lost_Cartographer]

8 minutes ago, HowDenKing said:

they're still used if I beat my lich, so I can at best do 3 liches w/ a mod that took way too much to get.

hope for a requem relic to drop in a kuva mission, 

hope it's the RIGHT requiem

hope it drops the right mod you need

hope you don't have to try 3 times to get the combination right because it just wastes time

 

it's too many levels of rng

Could take upwards of 5.

Three times to find the first. Another two to find the second.  Last one is a given at that point.

I'm hoping rank 5 is their cap, because level 100-120 enemies are already just dull sponges that I need to cheese solo, or let someone else cheese in public.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[HowDenKing]

1 minute ago, WNxMatthew said:

Well you can have your reasons. I am just stating that fact. Also new players that reach lvl 20+ area won't be finding any liches. They only start finding them after they finish the war within.....or that is how it is supposed to work.

you can finish war within well before you can deal with 80+ missions comfortably.

[WNxMatthew]

Just now, HowDenKing said:

you can finish war within well before you can deal with 80+ missions comfortably.

Again just saying man. Its in the notes. I understand where you are coming from though.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

One person wants more murmurs while the other just wants to kill or die from his kuva lich; however, another player is preventing him/her to do so...DE may have "tested" this system, but they didn't analyze the design of this kuva lich system properly. One person said multiple kuva lichs should be able to spawn at once during a mission, but the problem with this is where do you put all of their big health bars at in the user interface?

Not attacking a lich can be more problematic in like defense type, as well...

I'm not saying you should always attack the kuva lich, but DE pooly implemented these features of the kuva lich system and as a result, we have players insulting one another on how to play the game, when the game's design itself is to be blamed.

Honestly, the best advice now is if you want to spawn your kuva lich, just do a quick mission alone such as capture...to avoid this problem with other players not attacking their kuva lich...

The solution to this problem should be what we are talking about because I honestly can't think of one, atm...If two player's goals or selfish way of progression conflict with each other in a Co-Op game, neither is at fault, it's the game's design at fault.

[WNxMatthew]

They honestly don't need the health bars on the top of the screen. That would solve that issue. On the other hand, if they didn't have that giant health bar at the top and just let all of them spawn in when they wanted then there might be total chaos. I don't know. The only I can see of solving this is to only allow one lich for each mission run. But there are also flaws with that....

[OvisCaedo]

For what it's worth, brute forcing the combination takes a maximum of... 18 or 19 attempts. Still quite a few for something that feels so RNG heavy on its spawn, and I can agree that the whole system is very stupid overall. There should, indeed, be some other way of getting rid of the lich besides making a failed attempt; especially since one might not even have all of the mods yet to TRY to brute force it.

Also sort of confused by the notion that one lich blocks others from spawning; is there some much more reliable way of getting them to show up or something than I've been aware of so far? Do they 100% spawn on rescue??

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 minute ago, OvisCaedo said:

For what it's worth, brute forcing the combination takes a maximum of... 18 or 19 attempts. Still quite a few for something that feels so RNG heavy on its spawn, and I can agree that the whole system is very stupid overall. There should, indeed, be some other way of getting rid of the lich besides making a failed attempt; especially since one might not even have all of the mods yet to TRY to brute force it.

Also sort of confused by the notion that one lich blocks others from spawning; is there some much more reliable way of getting them to show up or something than I've been aware of so far? Do they 100% spawn on rescue??

I think the point with rescue was it was a quicker mission to complete...pretty much

A kuva lich spawn chance depends on it's anger meter and RNG. Since one kuva lich can only be active at once per active mission, this can block another player's desire to spawn a kuva lich.

Edited November 3, 2019 by CrystalSpark

[WNxMatthew]

Just now, OvisCaedo said:

For what it's worth, brute forcing the combination takes a maximum of... 18 or 19 attempts. Still quite a few for something that feels so RNG heavy on its spawn, and I can agree that the whole system is very stupid overall. There should, indeed, be some other way of getting rid of the lich besides making a failed attempt; especially since one might not even have all of the mods yet to TRY to brute force it.

Also sort of confused by the notion that one lich blocks others from spawning; is there some much more reliable way of getting them to show up or something than I've been aware of so far? Do they 100% spawn on rescue??

No they have a higher chance of spawning the more you piss them off. The rescue mission was just my case only.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

5 minutes ago, WNxMatthew said:

They honestly don't need the health bars on the top of the screen. That would solve that issue. On the other hand, if they didn't have that giant health bar at the top and just let all of them spawn in when they wanted then there might be total chaos. I don't know. The only I can see of solving this is to only allow one lich for each mission run. But there are also flaws with that....

4 Kuva liches versus 4 players would be a fairer fight and a challenge that the community was waiting for...

Kuva liches aren't a threat to me, currently...cuz we can simply outnumber them...

Edited November 3, 2019 by CrystalSpark

[(PSN)OccultSif]

Here's another question, why does it matter? Does ignoring the Lich really cause so much of an inconvenience to you when it's not your Lich in the first place? Is it like when on Corpus space tilesets the one person with an AoE weapon accidentally breaks a window and then someone has to hunt down a terminal to initiate airlock? So that not every door is locked completely halting mission progress? From what I've seen no.

[BDMblue]

A solution should be you knock down the lich if it is not attempted to be killed it warps into the room with its host and locks doors. If the doors are hacked and the lich is not killed the lich says I’ve learnt a lot from this in-counter levels up and exits the game. 

[BDMblue]

3 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

4 Kuva liches versus 4 players would be a fairer fight and a challenge that the community was waiting for...

Kuva liches aren't a threat to me, currently...cuz we can simply outnumber them...

Those rad damage ones are crazy tho. Had one pop on a defensive made us all down and the objective die. I told that guy his lich was a keeper.