Something needs to be done about players who won't attack their lich

[WNxMatthew]

1 minute ago, CrystalSpark said:

4 Kuva liches versus 4 players would be a fairer fight and a challenge that the community was waiting for...

Kuva liches aren't a threat to me, currently...cuz we can simply outnumber them...

I mean whatever works best. The only issue I have about all this is that I am not telling people how to play but people are trying to tell me how to play. I am just not going to have people attempt to force me into playing a certain way if there is an alternative or if I don't have to do it immediately.

[Vitoga]

Absolutely.

[-Pandemic-]

What I am finding as equally frustrating is when MY Lich appears after someone else got theirs, they head for the extract forcing the timer screwing me out of downing my Lich! At least 4 times this has happened in the past 2 days on fast missions like Capture or Exterminate.

[Rantear]

35 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

And larva only work and spawn for you after TWW. That's past Pluto and mr5 so it's hard to be ignorant unless they were carried.

You, and it seems like alot of other people, including DE, overestimate the difficulty of the main quest line.
I've cleared almost the entire Star Chart solo. And after The Sacrifice i couldn't even beat regular lvl 40 enemies reliably.
(I remember that precisely, because at the time there was a nightwave mission to beat the Ropapolyst, and there are lvl 40 enemies on it's node).
Before that i've only joined random groups 2 times:
First time - to beat bugged AF Tyl Regor, literally unbeatable solo, unless you can one-shot him.
Second time - to clear Mot, Vor got me, tho pretty sure it was after i've beaten The Sacrifice....

Only real difficulty was the Hyena pack, but Transcendence, still available before you get your fully fledged spoiler mode in TWW, made short work of them.

There are two main reasons why new players won't have good gear by the time when liches start appearing:

Limited slots
&
Reactors and Catalysts are too rare
When something is limited, you always want to make the most of it, it definetly would've been a mistake, putting the Catalyst on a Seer or Karak
or a Reactor on a frame, whose Prime version was about to be unvaulted.

P.S. Sorry for offtop.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

No it isn't.  And it isn't even a negligible cost.  A cost of a single credit would be more. 

OK I didn't read your username before responding. I admit, ya got me, you "win" this round

[Shriketalon]

The problem is a game mechanic that punishes the player for participating.

Under the current system, if you don't have the right mod combination for your lich and it shows up in a mission, it will automatically kill you if you engage it. This has created a perverse incentive in multiplayer where a player will avoid their lich if it spawns.  And why shouldn't they?  All they can do is lose XP by fighting with it, while avoiding the game mechanic allows them to carry on as usual.

But if you're in a party and someone else's lich shows up, you 100% want them to fight it.  The only way for your lich to spawn is if there lich is cleared off the board, and if you are ready to test your mod combination on your lich, the other player is in the way.  Neither side is incorrect, because the mechanic itself is flawed.  The player with the lich shouldn't be punished for engaging with the game, and the other party members shouldn't have a situation where they're asking one player to sacrifice for no gain in order to engage with the game.

The solution is simple.  Kuva liches should be murmur pinatas.

When a lich spawns, the player should be encouraged to fight it.  Attacking a lich with the wrong parazon mod should result in a cheated death where the lich despawns, laughs at the player, and the requiem murmur gauge for all players should climb significantly. 

This would encourage players to engage with the mechanic.  The player with the lich gets rewarded by testing their parazon and getting murmurs, the party members are encouraged to help out in the fight, and the lich grows stronger by cheating death once again.  Everyone wins by participating in the game mechanic.  The entire point of a lich in mythology is that you can kill them over and over and they don't stay dead.  So that's exactly what we should be encouraged to do.

[Troll_Logic]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK I didn't read your username before responding. I admit, ya got me, you "win" this round

Yeah, many original people use that old trope when they realize their argument is silly but they want to throw in a parting shot.

[TARINunit9]

7 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Yeah, many original people use that old trope when they realize their argument is silly but they want to throw in a parting shot.

Oh I don't think you're correct. You're still dead wrong ("just let the enemy kill you to get around a design oversight" is literally never acceptable game design) but I'm not going to waste time with a self-admitted troll. Because that's exactly what you want me to do, waste time

[Jitsuryoku]

Well, that hit a soft spot. 

Atm I just abort and look for another mission (if I need the lich to spawn).

How about a mechanism to despawn them without upgrading them? 
If not despawned make them pursue the target and go into "rage" if chase continues for too long.

[HugintheCrow]

2 minutes ago, Jitsuryoku said:

Well, that hit a soft spot. 

Atm I just abort and look for another mission (if I need the lich to spawn).

How about a mechanism to despawn them without upgrading them? 
If not despawned make them pursue the target and go into "rage" if chase continues for too long.

Perhaps, you know, if you down a dude, they shouldn't be able to suddenly suplex you, and instead have to run away (or die, but simply not forever)?

They should only be allowed to kill the player if they actually kill the player, not right after the player proved they are capable of fighting the lich.

Edited November 3, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[-Pandemic-]

24 minutes ago, Shriketalon said:

The problem is a game mechanic that punishes the player for participating.

The solution is simple.  Kuva liches should be murmur pinatas.

When a lich spawns, the player should be encouraged to fight it.  Attacking a lich with the wrong parazon mod should result in a cheated death where the lich despawns, laughs at the player, and the requiem murmur gauge for all players should climb significantly. 

100% this!! Excellent solution!!

[Akjir]

Yeah. I like the idea that you can defeat your lich even if you don't have the right mods. He despawn, say something lorelike, and you get some murmur. That would be rewarding and a good solution.

[HugintheCrow]

Just now, Akjir said:

Yeah. I like the idea that you can defeat your lich even if you don't have the right mods. He despawn, say something lorelike, and you get some murmur. That would be rewarding and a good solution.

Right? And literally everyone would be happy. Except for the lich, but hek'em.

[Akjir]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb HugintheCrow:

Right? And literally everyone would be happy. Except for the lich, but hek'em.

Then let's hope DE do something like this. The lich system could be fantastic, but there is much to do. I mean, why is my nemesis not attack me outside the lich missions? Like several other encounters. 

Edit: Rebb said on Twitter, that you will get murmur if you fight your lich and fail. Hopefully you don't die trying. It feels so wrong.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Akjir

[Panzerdragoon2000]

I do lich missions to get murmur. I am not bothered by people not killing their  liches for mine to appear, when i'm ready I'll go solo and kill him or mercy, but in multiplayer I'm going to farm murmurs.

If you want to kill your lich you should solo because not everyone wants to play the way you do.

[MaillerPhong]

It's amazing how many people are so selfish and entitled that they'd rather $&*^ over their teammates for an entire match, than take a death and lose a bit of affinity. I have yet to see any support in favor of not killing your lich other than "screw you guys, I don't feel like it".

[Jaysus41]

22 minutes ago, MaillerPhong said:

It's amazing how many people are so selfish and entitled that they'd rather $&*^ over their teammates for an entire match, than take a death and lose a bit of affinity. I have yet to see any support in favor of not killing your lich other than "screw you guys, I don't feel like it".

It's amazing how many people are so selfish and entitled that they'd screw over their own teammate and demand they kill themselves just to see their lich, which they could just as easily see in the next mission.

I don't force other players to do things they don't want to do, and I expect the same to be reciprocated. Don't want to fight your lich? It's cool, there's always next mission.

I haven't seen this much salt on the forums since the Dark Sector Conflicts, you kids need to lighten up.

[Test-995]

29 minutes ago, MaillerPhong said:

It's amazing how many people are so selfish and entitled that they'd rather $&*^ over their teammates for an entire match, than take a death and lose a bit of affinity. I have yet to see any support in favor of not killing your lich other than "screw you guys, I don't feel like it".

You know, killing lich = loss of spawned thralls, and loss of future thralls that spawned by the liches.

Not killing liches are ridiculously more efficient, 2x, 3x, or maybe 10x faster? dunno, but 99% of people are farming thralls and not liches, if you want to kill liches you can go solo and wouldn't have any problem spawning them, unlike thralls that increases number in PuG matches.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Test-995

[Paradoxity]

All I'm seeing  in here is further reinforcement for the long-standing 'friends only' setting I run missions on. 

[MaillerPhong]

8 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

You know, killing lich = loss of spawned thralls, and loss of future thralls that spawned by the liches.

Not killing liches are ridiculously more efficient, 2x, 3x, or maybe 10x faster? dunno, but 99% of people are farming thralls and not liches, if you want to kill liches you can go solo and wouldn't have any problem spawning them, unlike thralls that increases number in PuG matches.

You know, if you don't want to kill your lich you can go in solo mode and save your teammates the irritation. :)

Edited November 4, 2019 by MaillerPhong

[Test-995]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxity said:

All I'm seeing  in here is further reinforcement for the long-standing 'friends only' setting I run missions on. 

There is no room for reinforcement anymore lol

 

1 minute ago, MaillerPhong said:

You know, if you don't want to kill your lich you can go in solo mode and save your teammates the irritation. :)

Sorry but going solo reduces potential thrall count, so i can't do that.

And well, i want to help other people by keeping my lich alive and increase thralls by a lot :)

those guys that are being mad at this is just don't know how things work right? i was been like that too!

[TheJagji]

Why are people leveling them though? Like, if they make mummer dudes, then fine, but if there is 4 of you, then clearly the 4th player just leaves his/hers alone.

This sounds more like there trying to avoid leveling them up, and making them harder to beat, witch I think its kinda dumb.

I like the idea of them leaving after being knocked down a few times, but this should also make them level up, on the basis that they survived that long.

Just now, Test-995 said:

There is no room for reinforcement anymore lol

 

Sorry but going solo reduces potential thrall count, so i can't do that.

And well, i want to help other people by keeping my lich alive and increase thralls by a lot 🙂

those guys that are being mad at this is just don't know how things work right? i was been like that too!

But are you explaining that? If not, then you should be. And if your Litch is not the last one in the group, you should kill it. Like, its fine if you want to help, but your not helping them level there litchis of you don't get rid of yours, so your not helping as well as you could be.

Edited November 4, 2019 by TheJagji

[Test-995]

45 minutes ago, TheJagji said:

But are you explaining that? If not, then you should be. And if your Litch is not the last one in the group, you should kill it. Like, its fine if you want to help, but your not helping them level there litchis of you don't get rid of yours, so your not helping as well as you could be.

Yeah explaining that mostly, but raging people are raging no matter what.

Also do noted that there is no way to check if my lich is last or not, if everyone beside me has 0% rage meter and i kill the lich? then entire mission is now pointless, your grind is #*!%ed up.

So i'm helping most of people... people who has less than 100% rage meter, less than 3 murmur, while ignoring people who have whichever, but i don't think it is actually problematic because... well, i can just farm levels/liches solo without any problem, they have almost guaranteed chance to spawn with 100% meter, unlike rage meter farming that i have 0% chance to spawn lich, i have to rely on others in that case (but well i won't get mad or think they are selfish for someone who want to kill lich in PuG, it's their choice!).

[Troll_Logic]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Oh I don't think you're correct. You're still dead wrong ("just let the enemy kill you to get around a design oversight" is literally never acceptable game design) but I'm not going to waste time with a self-admitted troll. Because that's exactly what you want me to do, waste time

I really don't give a flying eff what you do.

Let me tell you why I picked this name.  A few years back, some guy wanted catalysts and reactors to be the same item.  His reasoning was because they both doubled mod points, there should be only one item.  I replied that since each affected different specific items, they should stay separate.  He replied the same thing about since they did the same thing, they should be the same thing.  I replied that since both items were substantially different, it made since there were different items.  But "Hey, we just disagree.  It's cool."

That's when he replied with the "Don't bring your troll logic in here."  I thought that was a fantastic name. 

I never thought you said I was correct.  You just can't handle someone disagreeing with you.  And just like many others, they reply with "Oh, look at your name." as if that has anything to do with it.  We don't have to agree.  I don't have to prove I'm right nor do I have to prove you're wrong.  I don't see a player's revive as that big a deal, like you mentioned, when there are 4 to 6 in each mission.

Do you really think for a second if I was actually a troll on these forums or in the game, DE would put up with it?  If I was an actual troll, people would be reporting me becasue I'd be acting like a troll.

But again, be original and use that old trope to throw out a parting shot when you get out of your silly argument. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Troll_Logic

[Troll_Logic]

Honestly, I think liches should spawn at any time, in any number, and the lich's health meter should show only on the specific player's screen.  Why should I care what that player's lich's health is?

Or bring the stalker's mechanic into play and keep teleporting the player to his lich.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Troll_Logic