In My Opinion, The Lich Theft Mechanic is not Broken

[Reiyd]

I have heard some outrage over the fact that Kuva Liches can steal relics and such, making it seemingly impossible to kill them. However, if you want to farm Requiem relics, you should remove their influence from the planet before doing Kuva Siphons or Floods, that way they do not steal your relics. Worst case scenario, if they have influence over the whole planet, wait a bit for the fortress to move and do Kuva missions on another planet.

Just thought I would suggest this in case people hadn't realized!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Them stealing requiem stuff will 100% get patches out. There’s no way DE’s going to leave that in.

Edited November 3, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Alpha_Tango]

I am pretty sure people who complained about it already knew how to circumvent it. Some just like to complain for the heck of it to push their obviously lazy attitude about some challenges thrown their way.

I never saw any other huge addition to the game that barely needs any revision than the Liches. 

[nslay]

If you were a Kuva Lich, wouldn't you steal the Requiem relic from your Tenno adversary if you had the chance too?

[Reiyd]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Then stealing requiem stuff will 100% get patches out. There’s no way DE’s going to leave that in.

I feel like you are ignoring my point...

[Test-995]

22 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

if they have influence over the whole planet, wait a bit for the fortress to move and do Kuva missions on another planet.

Another pointless just ignore it kind of post, ignoring it won't gave us anything so there is no reason to do that.

[nslay]

Or just free the planet before doing the Kuva Siphon missions...You need the murmurs anyway.

[Reiyd]

2 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Another pointless just ignore it kind of post, ignoring it won't gave us anything so there is no reason to do that.

If you had even looked at the full sentence you took the quote from, you'd see that was what I offered as a worst-case scenario. I believe my point still stands.

[Avienas]

13 minutes ago, Alpha_Tango said:

I am pretty sure people who complained about it already knew how to circumvent it. Some just like to complain for the heck of it to push their obviously lazy attitude about some challenges thrown their way.

I never saw any other huge addition to the game that barely needs any revision than the Liches. 

Honestly, considering i have not experienced it yet as a console player, i would like to think D.E. will likely have to do quite a bit of redesigning, since i am more concerned once it gets to the point, where people need to reroll kuva liches en-masses just to chase those final few weapons. If D.E. has yet to implement the ability to `post` your kuva liches up on a board to `exchange them`.

It already sounds bad enough with what is effectively a quintuple or more grind:

1. Chase the relic on what is basically a 1/3rd chance on siphon missions, even if you can get one guranteed every time the nodes reset via flood?
2. Get plenty of stock on both void traces & requiem relics to chase multiple of them, with likely a full group, all running the same relic, at a rather low drop rate since its chasing specific silvers `once again.`
3. Pray the relic actually drops the requiem mod you need and repeat half a dozen or more times till you got the minimum 3 or atleast 8 to save some `trouble.
4. Spam the kuva lich nodes while trial & error yourself into suicides, just to figure out what kills the bloke.
5. Repeat process multiple times to get all the kuva lich weapons.
6. Grind said kuva lich weapons to max
7. Repeat process for each kuva lich weapon about 5 times each (which should be 65 forma???), since its sounding like each weapon can give up to 4k mastery each.
8. Once mods are exhausted, repeat steps again to farm chances on getting kuva lich weapons you want. Oh plus if you get a better version of one you already burnt 5 forma on, enjoy burning another 5 forma on the new version, making you effectively waste 5 days of forma building or a little under 70 of the plat you used to buy some forma bundles.

Think i basically nut-shelled why im still on the band`wagon that the system was poorly designed and D.E. just HAD to give us a convenient way to skip some of that grind by buying some of the stuff to kill them, which still does not help that you still need to deal with the rng-sus of them having a weapon you want. which though i can respect when a f2p game needs to make money, its just not that good when its another bethesada shenigan with the whole `selling the solution b.s.`, especially when its some recent content with huge amounts of grind, intentionally made to persuade people to burn plat instead. 

Honestly, i wish they would just remove requiem relics and just have the mods drop in kuva fortress missions, then it would likely be bearable, since your still dealing with kuva liches weapon randomizer, finding the kill words & getting the mods to do the deed, quite effectively, lowering the number of steps and not mix systems in a bad way, when `relic system` has yet to receive any proper improvements, that it should of got, way before they added more grind to the relic system itself.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Avienas

[Test-995]

Just now, Reiyd said:

If you had even looked at the full sentence you took the quote from, you'd see that was what I offered as a worst-case scenario. I believe my point still stands.

Worst case happens a lot, thank you.

[Nocontents]

I heard that sometimes they don't even return the whole loot back. I've seen some players saying that they didn't get their loot back. Like riven or prime blueprints.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

I feel like you are ignoring my point...

No, I’m addressing it by telling you that DE will likely patch this because we shouldn’t have to go through this kind of stuff.

[Reiyd]

9 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Honestly, considering i have not experienced it yet as a console player, i would like to think D.E. will likely have to do quite a bit of redesigning, since i am more concerned once it gets to the point, where people need to reroll kuva liches en-masses just to chase those final few weapons. If D.E. has yet to implement the ability to `post` your kuva liches up on a board to `exchange them`.

It already sounds bad enough with what is effectively a quintuple or more grind:

1. Chase the relic on what is basically a 1/3rd chance on siphon missions, even if you can get one guranteed every time the nodes reset via flood?
2. Get plenty of stock on both void traces & requiem relics to chase multiple of them, with likely a full group, all running the same relic, at a rather low drop rate since its chasing specific silvers `once again.`
3. Pray the relic actually drops the requiem mod you need and repeat half a dozen or more times till you got the minimum 3 or atleast 8 to save some `trouble.
4. Spam the kuva lich nodes while trial & error yourself into suicides, just to figure out what kills the bloke.
5. Repeat process multiple times to get all the kuva lich weapons.
6. Grind said kuva lich weapons to max
7. Repeat process for each kuva lich weapon about 5 times each (which should be 65 forma???), since its sounding like each weapon can give up to 4k mastery each.
8. Once mods are exhausted, repeat steps again to farm chances on getting kuva lich weapons you want. Oh plus if you get a better version of one you already burnt 5 forma on, enjoy burning another 5 forma on the new version, making you effectively waste 5 days of forma building or a little under 70 of the plat you used to buy some forma bundles.

Think i basically nut-shelled why im still on the band`wagon that the system was poorly designed and D.E. just had to give us a convenient way to skip some of that grind by buying some of the stuff to kill them, which still does not help that you still need to deal with the rng-sus of them having a weapon you want.

I totally understand this perspective, but to me this system just feels like giving me reasons to play content that I don't that often. I don't play Kuva missions that often because I don't try to god roll rivens. However, the riven slivers and the kuva lich system make me WANT to play them to get the relics. Also, most siphon missions are pretty fast, I don't personally feel that chance is too low.

Also, I feel like since there are so few rewards in the requiem relics, they aren't diluted and I actually have trouble even choosing a reward at times because I want them all.

As for the amount of forma, I agree, I don't like the rank 40 stuff being tied to forma at all. I think that is a very pointless grind. MAYBE one forma to sort of "activate" the higher ranks but that should be it.

If you have feedback for the system as a whole though, they have a thread for that and I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Reiyd

[Reiyd]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No, I’m addressing it by telling you that DE will likely patch this because we shouldn’t have to go through this kind of stuff.

I mean I am not saying I like people getting their relics stolen, just that there is already a simple built-in mechanism to avoid it and people are just raging about it rather than thinking at all.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

I mean I am not saying I like people getting their relics stolen, just that there is already a simple built-in mechanism to avoid it and people are just raging about it rather than thinking at all.

I’d rather just not have to worry about it.

[Reiyd]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’d rather just not have to worry about it.

Then don't make a Kuva Lich and you won't have to? 🤷‍♂️

[TARINunit9]

My proposed solution would be to move Requiem relics from Kuva Siphons to some kind of Lich Treasury Ship mission (who else misses Treasury Ship alerts?) The point being, the Lich tracked these mods down ahead of time knowing they could be used to kill him, and you're tracking them down

Reduce the Requiem murmurs needed to decide a Requiem Pattern, and either make Treasure Ship keys that cost murmurs or have the Ship show up after reducing a bunch of the Lich's Influence

And most importantly Requiem mods couldn't be stolen after these missions

[Test-995]

31 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

but to me this system just feels like giving me reasons to play content that I don't that often.

Kuva lich is a Nightwave 2.0 confirmed.

[Avienas]

45 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

I totally understand this perspective, but to me this system just feels like giving me reasons to play content that I don't that often. I don't play Kuva missions that often because I don't try to god roll rivens. However, the riven slivers and the kuva lich system make me WANT to play them to get the relics. Also, most siphon missions are pretty fast, I don't personally feel that chance is too low.

Also, I feel like since there are so few rewards in the requiem relics, they aren't diluted and I actually have trouble even choosing a reward at times because I want them all.

As for the amount of forma, I agree, I don't like the rank 40 stuff being tied to forma at all. I think that is a very pointless grind. MAYBE one forma to sort of "activate" the higher ranks but that should be it.

If you have feedback for the system as a whole though, they have a thread for that and I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

Never the less, i also a not a fan of the fact they crammed Ayatan amber stars & Weapon exilus unlocker bps in possible rolls, they have nothing to do with riven mods period, which we already have arbitation doing a rather good job of killing the reason to care about endo anymore. Plus we can actually buy weapon exilus unlockers for 20 plat or get them for 70k standing in every syndicate, which would of made more sense to have 4 types of requiem mods and each relic, would have better odds at specific mods(namely 1 of them would be common from that relic) while still giving the chance of getting other ones as a `rare`....

OR D.E. could of just bloody broke the 5 selection requirement and cut it down to 3. Riven slivers would of been the tissue pick up while it could either have 1 requiem mod as rare and the other as uncommon or have both mods be uncommon and no rare slot period.

Plus again, Its not the odds of single things that is the issue, its the fact its a multi chain system of odds, especially when relics have nothing to do with kuva before they pulled this, which again, they could of buffed that dang 3-30~ void traces random pool per rotation, have better modifiers apply to it and make `relic sharing` work towards boosting void traces instead of being a CRUTCH to force people to farm huge amount of traces for just a couple of relics to have better odds and actually make players want to party up with you to relic share the optimal odds. Then i feel like it would work better, even something as simple as Give an extra modifier bonus which boosts the min/max trace gain bases based on what relic tier you are opening. Throw in the fact you only get one new thing out of it (The Weapon) and nothing substantial, which correct me if im wrong, i assume the only other thing you get from the lich is whatever he pilfered from you, i assume you get no bonus loot from the resources based on the Kuva lich`s rank nor does he give you a large lump of kuva, despite basically being constantly revived by the stuff.

Honestly, i would rather if they have to make these weapons able to go up to rank 40, just remove the forma interaction, that was Paracesis`s gag and lore`wise, it was basically a weapon we made out of orokin ducats & sentient material to be a sentient buster, so suddenly getting a bunch of kuva weapons with the same thing, feels like D.E. is trying to give us the 6 star version of weapons now, after having us sit on 5 star weapons for so long (mobile game power creep thing), cept they put it under an absurd grind to get it or pay a large sum of plat, to just get mid-way done for a little bit.

Very sure i poked the main feedback thread already, its just a mix of my gripes and hopefully putting my opinion out on as many threads about the b.s. as possible, might have enough people discuss it, so we can get a repeat of the whole `umbratization` fiasco, since i would like to believe D.E. pulled out on it, since the players were absolutely ticked about it and we got Lua Focus lenses instead.

If It was only 3 or even 5 weapons, i think the backlash would of been alot less, but 13 of them is way too much, especially if we have not much in the way to `segregate` the weapons they can spawn with, so we can get liches who only use a particular batch of weapons, so we can up the odds on getting what we need. I am sure some people are already on their 10th or so lich by now, but i feel those would likely be the ones who sunk the plat for the easy requiem mod packs.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Avienas

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

37 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

Then don't make a Kuva Lich and you won't have to? 🤷‍♂️

Oh trust me if they don’t make Requiem mods non-consumable I’m not touching the system with a ten foot pole. The second I get one it’s getting thrown into the clans lich pool.

[Reiyd]

5 minutes ago, Avienas said:

-Snip-

Holy moly that's a book. Again, not the topic of discussion of this thread my dude.

The point of this thread is to discuss the theft mechanic in general. I get people will disagree with me, but the Kuva Lich system exists, in my opinion, to coerce you to interact with the game more.

Think about it, we can now play high level missions on star chart planets like mercury. This is something that people have been requesting for ages.There is now more to do in the Kuva Fortress, I have more reasons to play Kuva Siphons and Floods, as I've said before. So in my opinion, playing a few nodes on their planets to wipe off influence before doing siphons is kinda fun.

If you think you should just not have to deal with the big bad messing with you at all when the solution is so easy, it just comes off as not wanting to play the game at that point. Players tend to cry that the devs don't think from the player's perspective, yet I bet a vast majority of the playerbase who get outraged about design choices don't watch the devstreams or even try play the game the way that the devs intended it before complaining.

9 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Oh trust me if they don’t make Requiem mods non-consumable I’m not touching the system with a ten foot pole. The second I get one it’s getting thrown into the clans lich pool.

They are only consumed when you kill a lich and have three uses. I feel like that's overreacting.

[Alpha_Tango]

49 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Honestly, considering i have not experienced it yet as a console player, i would like to think D.E. will likely have to do quite a bit of redesigning, since i am more concerned once it gets to the point, where people need to reroll kuva liches en-masses just to chase those final few weapons. If D.E. has yet to implement the ability to `post` your kuva liches up on a board to `exchange them`.

It already sounds bad enough with what is effectively a quintuple or more grind:

1. Chase the relic on what is basically a 1/3rd chance on siphon missions, even if you can get one guranteed every time the nodes reset via flood?
2. Get plenty of stock on both void traces & requiem relics to chase multiple of them, with likely a full group, all running the same relic, at a rather low drop rate since its chasing specific silvers `once again.`
3. Pray the relic actually drops the requiem mod you need and repeat half a dozen or more times till you got the minimum 3 or atleast 8 to save some `trouble.
4. Spam the kuva lich nodes while trial & error yourself into suicides, just to figure out what kills the bloke.
5. Repeat process multiple times to get all the kuva lich weapons.
6. Grind said kuva lich weapons to max
7. Repeat process for each kuva lich weapon about 5 times each (which should be 65 forma???), since its sounding like each weapon can give up to 4k mastery each.
8. Once mods are exhausted, repeat steps again to farm chances on getting kuva lich weapons you want. Oh plus if you get a better version of one you already burnt 5 forma on, enjoy burning another 5 forma on the new version, making you effectively waste 5 days of forma building or a little under 70 of the plat you used to buy some forma bundles.

Think i basically nut-shelled why im still on the band`wagon that the system was poorly designed and D.E. just had to give us a convenient way to skip some of that grind by buying some of the stuff to kill them, which still does not help that you still need to deal with the rng-sus of them having a weapon you want.

So you are complaining about the grind?

This is not supposed to be done in haste. You can also choose not to engage when only you and you alone can kill the "marked" larvling after a Guardian announces its presence. Even when they are activated, there are ways, mentioned by the OP, to keep them off nodes where a likely requiem relic can be stolen. At nodes occupied by them, you can still choose regular/syndicate/sortie missions from a drop down menu if you want a break from the Lich. Only killing thralls for murmurs until they enraged makes them appear in occupied nodes. 

Since you obviously know the whole grind ahead of you and can gauge if you can handle it. You can choose to ignore it and trade for plat until you can buy "stuff" to kill them minus the grind. 

The worst "stuff" you can buy off the market is a hefty 850 platinum for the requiem mods. DE has to earn from something.  There is nothing malicious about it when people who can, buy with their wallets, while still leaving an option to earn them for free. Maybe trade now and earn some while console is still not updated ?

The whole game revolves around grinding and RNG, it is nothing new. There are no revisions needed, but clearly this boils down to business and numbers always dictates the direction to take.

[Teljaxx]

Having to kill an enemy to get what you need to kill that enemy makes no sense.

And, having to wait to play part the game isn't fun. Especially if its RNG that makes you wait. You want to farm relics to fight your Lich? Well, right now the only planets with kuva missions are all controlled by your Lich. So you should just log out and try again tomorrow. Wheee... Fun...

And since it is somewhat pertinent, I'll go ahead and suggest this again here: When you try to Mercy your Lich without their full Requiem, it should activate a hacking style minigame. If you fail, they kill you and level up like now. But if you succeed, they retreat and drop some of the loot they have stolen from you.

This would allow you to get back any Kuva Relics they stole before you are ready to kill them. Though, really, they just shouldn't be able to steal these in the first place.

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Them stealing requiem stuff will 100% get patches out. There’s no way DE’s going to leave that in.

Shouldn't have been there in the first place

[Miser_able]

I've only once have something stolen that annoyed me, 10 void traces. This left me with 97 traces instead of the full 100 I needed, so I just ran it again.