Vauban rework from Pablo

[MrDangatang]

I believe Vauban players agree on the fact that Vauban after the rework has 2 major problems:

First of all, some assets in his kit is still pointless for example the Speed Boosting Pad being out of use or Flechette Orb being weak above lvl 50-60 enemies. Also casting animations take ages (3rd and 4th ability) 

Second, is that Vauban is still not endgame-viable. What I mean is that seeing the Wukong rework and the Ember rework I see and feel much more potential from them in endgame situations thanks to survivability cc and damage being well balanced or at least being better balanced. In Vauban's Case it is a bit of a disappointment for me because he is overall Weak BUT he could have had much more potential if a bit more imagination is being put into good use. 

Overall, as a fellow Vauban lover I would like to start this forum hoping that we can reach out to DE and ask Pablo to tweak/rework Vauban again. 

In case you'd like to leave a comment on this thread feel free to take part in this "request" of mine. Thank you! 

(This is my first time writing a forum comment/topic so I hope I write in an acceptable manner)

Edited November 3, 2019 by MrDangatang

[Teridax68]

My thoughts on the Vauban rework:

• Overall, there's a lot of emphasis on lengthy casting animations, which feels like a step backwards in a game that emphasizes fluidity, and where time and again players have complained at length about how they don't like to be slowed down by protracted, repetitive animations.
• When DE announced that Tesla grenades would be allowed to move on their own, I was hopeful that they'd give Vauban some much-needed protective CC, much like Wisp's Shock mote, albeit with a bit more redundancy on a kit that also has Bastille. In practice, though, Tesla Nervos almost feel worse: they latch onto the first enemy in range, stick to that enemy until they die, and move incredibly slowly, meaning that if Vauban tries to cast the ability and then move around normally, he's going to leave all of his Nervos miles behind.
• As most players predicted, the only useful Minelayer ability is the damage boost, and even that effect itself is boring. Right now, throwing down a damage amp grenade while still affected by its buff consumes the grenade without actually refreshing the buff, which feels bad.
• Photon Strike is pretty much a dead ability, from what I've experienced: by the time the beam hits, even high-level enemies are long dead, and on top of that the damage is awful even with maxed-out Strength. The icing on top is the horrendous cast animation, which locks Vauban's entire upper body for no good reason, and makes him look like he's having a seizure when cast mid-air.
• Bastile was a good CC ability, Bastille is still a good CC ability. The armor strip is less helpful than promised, though, as it's staggered over time (and you need to put in a lot of Strength for it to start exceeding the value of a Corrosive proc per second), and the bonus armor for Vauban isn't even listed, not that it seems to contribute much to his survivability.

So essentially, much of this is what a lot of players had feared with the rework when the kit was demoed for the first time. He's still not great, nor is he all that functional, and I fail to see which unique contribution he's meant to have relative to other frames.

[peterc3]

It was a mistake for Pablo to become visible and there is probably never going to be a point when the players can get specific people to work on specific content through popular demand.

[Phaeronimus]

28 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

It was a mistake for Pablo to become visible and there is probably never going to be a point when the players can get specific people to work on specific content through popular demand.

The question is,why is only a single person in the 300+ members of DE team competent enough for these things? 

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, Phaeronimus said:

The question is,why is only a single person in the 300+ members of DE team competent enough for these things? 

No, the question is why do you only think of positives of Pablo's public work? Why do you think every employee is capable of frame design?

[Hekkatos]

6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

much like Wisp's Shock mote

I've been saying for a while that shock mote should have been a Vauban ability. it makes his shocks traps redundant.

[Phaeronimus]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

No, the question is why do you only think of positives of Pablo's public work? Why do you think every employee is capable of frame design?

Asking why is only 1 out of 300 competent for it isn't the same as asking why isn't everybody of 300 people competent in frame design.That is clearly what I didn't asked.
Don't try to put a false meaning to my question.As to refer the positivity of his work,ofc there are bad things,but looking at the bigger picture,he has better  good to bad ratio  than Scott,e.g.

[(PSN)Ragology]

3 hours ago, Phaeronimus said:

The question is,why is only a single person in the 300+ members of DE team competent enough for these things? 

I've read that its because Pablo actually plays the game.

I think the other devs play the game but they're more about testing for things that cause crashing or glitch out. Hella important of course so I'm thankful.

 Pablo, however, plays from our perspective and can better recognize when an ability or system is trash. There are likely only a few "pablos" on the dev team that can see the game from this perspective while the rest can only filter things via their "/god mode on" goggles. 

[Phaeronimus]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I've read that its because Pablo actually plays the game.

I think the other devs play the game but they're more about testing for things that cause crashing or glitch out. Hella important of course so I'm thankful.

 Pablo, however, plays from our perspective and can better recognize when an ability or system is trash. There are likely only a few "pablos" on the dev team that can see the game from this perspective while the rest can only filter things via their "/god mode on" goggles. 

^This.
That's why this feedback topic  is ridiculous.It's based on fixing the problem that was created for not listening in the first place.But they sure never run out of those  memes right? Right??  (Lookin' at you Memelayer)
It is mandatory that prior to any kind of Warframe rework/revisit they spend some actual time playing with it,and when I say play I don't mean capture aka kill the target and gtfo...Mot would be the best.It's like cooking...you gotta taste everything...is it too salty,should I add more condements,will the meat be overcooked/rare?
You can't just throw S#&$ in the pot,leave it be and hope the family will eat it.. -____-

[MrDangatang]

I made this topic purely for hoping it may come to the attention of DE. There is no reason to ridicule it. I wanted to try protesting aganist a rework that people did not like, before abandoning Vauban because he does not fit into the endgame In My Opinion. This topic is for the people who agree with the statements written above.  

(I have tested Vauban for almost all missions on high-level including quite a few arbitrations, sortie, kuva flood, and yes rank 5 kuva lich encounters as well) 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by MrDangatang
Edit hoping to stop the above mentioned fight

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I'm still waiting for the rework update (and the one before it...<.<) but there were some obvious limitations to it at first glance. I hoped the solution to those would be revealed with the actual release but they weren't.

On 2019-11-03 at 5:57 AM, MrDangatang said:

Speed Boosting Pad

First off, the concept of them having to have 4 items in the minelayer is unnecessary so they could just have 2 or 3 and toss whatever doesn't work. But the speed pad as a dash just sounds terrible. It would be better, if anything, as a duration speed boost with no direction tied to it at all. And no debuff aspect is necessary.

On 2019-11-03 at 5:57 AM, MrDangatang said:

Flechette Orb being weak above lvl 50-60 enemies.

I think everyone expected that. I don't know what the status chance on it is, but with puncture it could be a decent enemy damage debuffer if given 100% status chance.

On 2019-11-03 at 5:57 AM, MrDangatang said:

casting animations take ages (3rd and 4th ability) 

Honestly, I'm appalled about this given this was the same update they freed up all of Titania's movement. Her casting speed has been an issue for so long and then they make the same mistake with Vauban right as they pretend to rework her.

 

On 2019-11-03 at 5:57 AM, MrDangatang said:

Vauban is still not endgame-viable

I don't know if they ever ended up giving the bonus armor over time while in Bastille, but I figured that should've been done in a different way. Either reduce damage from all outside sources while in Bastille by 90% to allow it to be used to defend an area and protect allies, or maybe make it more unique by having 90% chance to negate (dampen momentum) projectile damage from the outside, and lessen damage from ones that make it through.

[Sdric]

1 is clunky, slow and weak.

Speed boosting pad is a meme and more used for trolling than anything constructive.

3 Is okay-ish.

4 Implementation seems wonky, even short taps are considered as "charged" and spawn vortexes even if you don't want to.

 

I wasn't a fan when I read the changes, but it's even worse than I anticipated. I still used to frequent Vauban in Inception Arbitrations, now I can't anymore as the wonky behavior of his 4 makes him to unreliable. Reliability was the one thing that kept him playable regardless of his poor defenses.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Sdric

[MrDangatang]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I'm still waiting for the rework update (and the one before it...<.<) but there were some obvious limitations to it at first glance. I hoped the solution to those would be revealed with the actual release but they weren't.

First off, the concept of them having to have 4 items in the minelayer is unnecessary so they could just have 2 or 3 and toss whatever doesn't work. But the speed pad as a dash just sounds terrible. It would be better, if anything, as a duration speed boost with no direction tied to it at all. And no debuff aspect is necessary.

I think everyone expected that. I don't know what the status chance on it is, but with puncture it could be a decent enemy damage debuffer if given 100% status chance.

Honestly, I'm appalled about this given this was the same update they freed up all of Titania's movement. Her casting speed has been an issue for so long and then they make the same mistake with Vauban right as they pretend to rework her.

 

I don't know if they ever ended up giving the bonus armor over time while in Bastille, but I figured that should've been done in a different way. Either reduce damage from all outside sources while in Bastille by 90% to allow it to be used to defend an area and protect allies, or maybe make it more unique by having 90% chance to negate (dampen momentum) projectile damage from the outside, and lessen damage from ones that make it through.

I Agree with most part but in Flechette Orb's case I see differently once you get to Experience Vauban's 3rd Ability you will see that even if modded for Strenght only it does not deal the amount of Dmg that you would expect. Level 110 corrupted heavy gunners dont even feel a full strenght 3rd ability UNLESS you strip their armour with Bastille first. Which is ...sadly takes around 6-8 seconds 😞 So We have ended up with an ability which is mid level (Flechette Orb ... forgot to mention you have to put down all 4 orb to actually see the damage of it above lvl 40) and a 3rd ability which is almost impossible to use without the vortex to hit enemies, its slow, it consumes horrendous amount of energy (not counting the 4th Ability Vortex as well) and gives me no reason to use it if my weapon is more effective In My Opinion. 

Thank you for your reply! Appretiatin' it!

Edited November 4, 2019 by MrDangatang
Typing on my phone is hard. Imagone playing Diablo immortal on it.

[Phaeronimus]

20 hours ago, MrDangatang said:

I made this topic purely for hoping it may come to the attention of DE. There is no reason to ridicule it. I wanted to try protesting aganist a rework that people did not like, before abandoning Vauban because he does not fit into the endgame In My Opinion. This topic is for the people who agree with the statements written above.  

(I have tested Vauban for almost all missions on high-level including quite a few arbitrations, sortie, kuva flood, and yes rank 5 kuva lich encounters as well) 

 

First of all,I would like to sincerely apologize because I just realized what happened..
I have the tendency to open multiple topics at once so that I can read them in order I want.With all those opened topics in different tabs,
I've managed to lose track of the (PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback  posted by the DE themselves,which ended in me ridiculing your topic instead of theirs.
Better ideas should have been implemented in the first hand and work from that.When they miss that opportunity,this is the backlash of many community members feedback they get.
 

I respect your topic MrDangatang,because you,like myself,want the best for our train boy Vauban.
Once again,I would like to apologize for this misunderstanding,because it led to this.
Sry man...I fked up. 😕

P.S.
You might wanna post your feedback in the appropriate topic https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1136760-pc-ember-vauban-revisited-feedback/ so that it gets maximum attention it deserves.Posted in this way,as a side topic even though it addresses the same problem,might go unnoticed.
 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Phaeronimus
Post the feedback in the right topic for more attention.

[MrDangatang]

1 hour ago, Phaeronimus said:

First of all,I would like to sincerely apologize because I just realized what happened..
I have the tendency to open multiple topics at once so that I can read them in order I want.With all those opened topics in different tabs,
I've managed to lose track of the (PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback  posted by the DE themselves,which ended in me ridiculing your topic instead of theirs.
Better ideas should have been implemented in the first hand and work from that.When they miss that opportunity,this is the backlash of many community members feedback they get.
 

I respect your topic MrDangatang,because you,like myself,want the best for our train boy Vauban.
Once again,I would like to apologize for this misunderstanding,because it led to this.
Sry man...I fked up. 😕

P.S.
You might wanna post your feedback in the appropriate topic https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1136760-pc-ember-vauban-revisited-feedback/ so that it gets maximum attention it deserves.Posted in this way,as a side topic even though it addresses the same problem,might go unnoticed.
 

 

All good! I have no hard feelings for anyone. If I was rude in any way I am sorry as well ! I have already posted a feedback on there 😄 I sat above Vauban's build for an hour and I burned out.

[Phaeronimus]

2 minutes ago, MrDangatang said:

All good! I have no hard feelings for anyone. If I was rude in any way I am sorry as well ! I have already posted a feedback on there 😄 I sat above Vauban's build for an hour and I burned out.

No worries mate,I've experienced nothing but politeness from your side. ^^
Btw,I'm afraid they'll nerf the Tesla Bank augment,since it's a better "Photon strike" than the real ability is.
God forbid we have something decent..

[MrDangatang]

5 hours ago, Phaeronimus said:

No worries mate,I've experienced nothing but politeness from your side. ^^
Btw,I'm afraid they'll nerf the Tesla Bank augment,since it's a better "Photon strike" than the real ability is.
God forbid we have something decent..

Did they say that seriously? I mean DE.

[Phaeronimus]

2 hours ago, MrDangatang said:

Did they say that seriously? I mean DE.

They didn't,but as soon as we have something good,they're gonna take it away. -___-

[MrDangatang]

39 minutes ago, Phaeronimus said:

They didn't,but as soon as we have something good,they're gonna take it away. -___-

True =/ but hotfixes now are heading in the right way at least