The HUGE Zenistar nerf

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Oh no, you can't just AFK anymore using Zenistar.

What a disaster.

more like Zenidisc has little functional purpose, as if you don't Mod exclusively for building Hit Counter you'll spend more than 30% of the Duration just doing the Animation in the first place. and if you do Mod exclusively for building Hit Counter you'll still have a poor uptime to actually using the Disc and getting the Utility benefits that it could offer.

on top of its Range already being significantly nerfed, and on top of all Melee being nerfed by making it abide by LoS (which yes, affects all Melee Weapons in all situations).

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, KnossosTNC said:

Blame me. I would take my Nova into T3 Interceptions, fling out a saucer and spam 4 while listening to YouTube videos on my phone, checking the timers every now and then.

DE must have noticed. My bad.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

more like Zenidisc has little functional purpose, as if you don't Mod exclusively for building Hit Counter you'll spend more than 30% of the Duration just doing the Animation in the first place. and if you do Mod exclusively for building Hit Counter you'll still have a poor uptime to actually using the Disc and getting the Utility benefits that it could offer.

on top of its Range already being significantly nerfed, and on top of all Melee being nerfed by making it abide by LoS (which yes, affects all Melee Weapons in all situations).

It's a pretty poorly thought out mechanic in the first place. Area of effect Damage + CC (via status effects) that incurs no cost to the player whatsoever.

That was asking for players to do BS with it.

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

My favorite melee was nerfed

all of my favorites were nerfed, which ofcourse is interesting as none of them were neither particularly popular, nor abusive.

but, all of the potentially abusive Melee Weapons, are still just the same as they were. the shot missing the mark as usual.

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Melee range was BUFFED, what the heck screwed up in your builds?

base values were, but Reach gives less than it did on longer Range Melee Weapons so if that person had been using some of the larger Range choices, their final Range would now be lower than it was before.

5 hours ago, (PS4)thecoolman575 said:

If you misplace the disc or it bounces on a wall or something too bad, gotta rebuild the combo counter.

right, it already straight up was the most finicky Melee Weapon as it was, and now it's even more finicky.

5 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Then ask yourself why the Pox is still the way it is and the Zenistar was changed.

because Zenistar was somewhat popular. you know the drill, things that are popular "have" to be nerfed in some way. unless, it's something that is "intended" to be popular, then it's okay.
just as something made to be AFK is okay as long as Digital Extremes wanted you to AFK with something. but if they didn't create something for you to do that with, doing that means you're doing a no-no.

:)

[(PSN)FunkdePuss]

I started enjoying warframe this game after bungie messed up D2 and never looked back. What made the experience more enjoyable was when I got my UNIQUE login reward the Zeni. I fell inlove with the uniqueness of this weapon I never had a problem running solo missions or public anymore because sometime public players just F.up and then you have to pickup the weight. 

Zeni(was my Bonnie and me Clide) always covering my back while taking care of business today after my console update I findout that the update was a F.up just like some of the public players i play with sometimes. Because some NOB decided that Zeni needed to be NERFED. 

I don't understand what's the logic of DE to break someone's toy everytime they having fun with it. To not even take one string off as always just break the whole God damn thing sucks for guys who love shooting up the place while having a lil CC. After reading the forums people talking about balance but funny enough these same people have 2 or 3 major frames they play throughout and same loadout all round. This thing boils down to play style and few fell for the Zeni's charms because she's not your slide, hack and slash Star but keeping things under reps when running Def/Farm runs, I'd really like to see the person who nerfed Zeni do a decent run at lvl 50+ corpus disruption.

I guess DE loves being a DoorNOB because they keep F. trying to fix what is not broken. Warframe in its entirety is a great game to come home to even after a tiring day the grind and waiting doesn't really matter but when they F. with the tools I use to work just makes the whole Fn experience and chore. I don't want to rush at Aliens with a freaking melee, they must meet the end of my barrel in their faces while Zeni covering the exits but seriously who was the one who was sitting at the Dev table and said let's NeRf Zenistar disc time and range. 

This Zenistar is useless now even the Azima is a better UNIQUE selection after Zenith.

Way to go way to go. BRAVO BRAVO 

[Chicken-Biryani]

6 hours ago, Oreades said:

If DE can do whatever they want to, with no rhyme or reason needed..... then "It's not coming back", you just played yourself.... 

You just established that DE is capricious and by that nature it coming back is very much in the cards for "no rhyme or reason". I mean I can appreciate you getting your Schadenfreude off but if you're gonna do it at least try to maybe keep it consistent? 

Whatever helps you sleep at night 😴

[Xzorn]

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It's a pretty poorly thought out mechanic in the first place. Area of effect Damage + CC (via status effects) that incurs no cost to the player whatsoever.

That was asking for players to do BS with it.

 

Yea, it's certainly DE's fault if it was abused.

For some reason they allowed it to gain stealth multiplier bonuses which caused the disc to be abused at lower levels and then later they allowed it to work with Condition Overload which further made it a problem. The Disc could do 10 base damage and I personally wouldn't care. Damage is not what I used it for.

What they did is completely destroy the weapon like they've done with so many others. Maybe in 1-2 years when no one uses it they'll un-nerf it since that's how DE does things. They don't balance; they crush something to make people stop using it then eventually half revert those changes to something more reasonable.

Personally I think it's because Zeni helped counter their pet Nullifiers. The most inconsistent and poorly designed enemy made.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Xzorn

[SenorClipClop]

On 2019-11-06 at 6:32 AM, Xzorn said:

Static Enemy level design ie Difficulty and consistent Power Creep just cannot work. It's impossible. At the basic concept levels are nothing more than Difficulty measurement. DE attempts to add Challenge to the game but without Difficulty ie without higher levels; challenge doesn't work.

Higher levels aren't going to give us difficulty. We as players have so many options, combinations and scaling power that no matter the obstacle or level thrown at us, we have solutions that trivialize it. Leveling enemies up will prove more challenging to some players, but for many others it's just the difference of clicking a button twice instead of once.

Options for fixing this intrinsic problem are any or all of three:

• Have mechanics that disable or block players' overwhelming power (Nullies, Status immunity etc.)
• Nerf the powers that trivialize gameplay to the point where they don't trivialize gameplay
• Make enemies smarter, faster, more capable etc. to the point where failing a mission is a very real possibility.

[Xzorn]

13 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Higher levels aren't going to give us difficulty. We as players have so many options, combinations and scaling power that no matter the obstacle or level thrown at us, we have solutions that trivialize it. Leveling enemies up will prove more challenging to some players, but for many others it's just the difference of clicking a button twice instead of once.

Options for fixing this intrinsic problem are any or all of three:

• Have mechanics that disable or block players' overwhelming power (Nullies, Status immunity etc.)
• Nerf the powers that trivialize gameplay to the point where they don't trivialize gameplay
• Make enemies smarter, faster, more capable etc. to the point where failing a mission is a very real possibility.

 

The level of an enemy is just a measurement of Difficulty. Pretty much everything you mentioned is Challenge. Not Difficulty.

I agree that nothing DE can throw at players (esp a group) will create Challenge nor Difficulty long as certain aspects of the game exist however I can't agree with the first method you mentioned. Limiting players with status immunity, ability immunity and such creates a disparity in what works and what doesn't work in the game.

It ultimately only serves to limit viable options player have to overcome an obstacle. That's what DE has been doing and that's why nothing matters anymore but eHP and DPS. It's why CC got murdered, why stealth is a botched up mess and now why ability buffs are now superior to debuffs.

Nerf abilities? Sure but when appropriate and most the time it's not because DE is insistent on keeping a level range of enemies that's literally impossible. Smarter enemies with new abilities and functions? Sure I've suggested similar but the trick is to not entirely neuter certain player abilities when you make them.

[(XBOX)poodlebingo 65]

Zenistar is now a waste of effort. The way that the Golden Girls misrepresented the nerf to this weapon is disappointing and dishonest. This has stuck in my craw and I can't dislodge it. Sorry DE but I feel like I'm dragging a heavy stone up a hill with this game, it's becoming a drag. 

[PatternistSlave]

10 hours ago, taiiat said:

all of my favorites were nerfed, which ofcourse is interesting as none of them were neither particularly popular, nor abusive.

Obviously polearms and are you really going to try and argue the range on them wasn't pretty stupid?  Cause it kindof was.  With a riven mine had more range than some guns.  There's a lot better variety in terms of usable weapons and more build variety now.  Not a terrible price to pay.

Oh and I'm not sure why the thread got combined with a Zenistar thread.  That was a stupid nerf, but was inevitable once every new player could get ahold of it.

Edited November 21, 2019 by PatternistSlave

[(XBOX)Vulcan Ranga]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

The Zenistar died a long time ago- when they killed melee punch through.

Yes and people still used after that and actually used it as intended

[(XBOX)Vulcan Ranga]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

The Zenistar died a long time ago- when they killed melee punch through.

Yes and people still used after that and actually used it as intended

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, PatternistSlave said:

Obviously polearms and are you really going to try and argue the range on them wasn't pretty stupid?  Cause it kindof was.  With a riven mine had more range than some guns. 

have you even tried whips before the nerf? polearms range were a joke.

[PatternistSlave]

1 minute ago, BlackVortex said:

have you even tried whips before the nerf? polearms range were a joke.

I didn't notice much of a difference, but then I wasn't all about meming strike.

[BlackVortex]

5 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

I didn't notice much of a difference, but then I wasn't all about meming strike.

whips had much better range on every type of attack than polearms

[PatternistSlave]

11 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

whips had much better range on every type of attack than polearms

which even whip are you talking about?  Cause with the garbage disposition on the Atterax I guarantee I had more range.

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

which even whip are you talking about?  Cause with the garbage disposition on the Atterax I guarantee I had more range.

including rivens, the scoliac ofcourse, as you were talking about polearms in general

Edited November 21, 2019 by BlackVortex

[PatternistSlave]

2 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

including rivens, the scoliac ofcourse

Ok, maybe?  I don't remember it being significantly more, but then I didn't have a riven till after the wall nerf.

[(XBOX)yepbeeble]

On 2019-11-03 at 7:47 PM, H.Katsura_999 said:

Yeah, this one hurts a lot.

Less range and 8 secs hover time (2 secs is lost to disk spool up)

Tried using the combo multiplier gimmick to see it it was still viable.

Turns out it was too cumbersome to use when stuff is going down hard and my primary or secondary does a better job cleaning up.

i know DE wants us to use melee weapons more but dang Zenistar was whacked pretty dang hard.

Nerf Bat prime is so merciless sometimes. 

Today I lost my fav melee weapon.

Ugh.

Not just that we lost the weapon, now all it's good for is the people who spend 275p on the Dominion Chroma bundle and now have wasted plat to have a big sword! This is an outrage!

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)razberryX said:

Not just that we lost the weapon, now all it's good for is the people who spend 275p on the Dominion Chroma bundle and now have wasted plat to have a big sword! This is an outrage!

this is why I stopped spending money on this game

I pay for something, then they break it and it's: too bad for you

[GrimSinner]

1 hour ago, BlackVortex said:

this is why I stopped spending money on this game

I pay for something, then they break it and it's: too bad for you

Seriously, I get anxiety if I see people using my weapon and build, because I know if it gets used too much, DE is going to nerf it into the ground.  LOL

But part of the fun is change and looking for the next best thing for my play style, but spending plat on this stuff is very risky due to inevitable nerfs.  

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, GrimSinner said:

Seriously, I get anxiety if I see people using my weapon and build, because I know if it gets used too much, DE is going to nerf it into the ground.  LOL

But part of the fun is change and looking for the next best thing for my play style, but spending plat on this stuff is very risky due to inevitable nerfs.  

even spending money on cosmetics is risky: what if you spent $6.99 on an Ember Graxx skin only to have the Ember changed/nerfed into the ground making you never want to play it ever again.

There goes your money

I guess the safest option would be to buy Syandana's which you can equip on any frame

[GrimSinner]

DE's reaction when they read this thread about the Zenistar nerf...

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

You know, I could get the nerf to catchmoon, because that weapon was ridiculous. But this nerf is just like kicking a puppy. This weapons only saving grace was that disc and now that's completely neutered it. Seriously, sometimes I really wonder hard at how the process of balancing happens around here.