Oreades Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, SardethWynn said: burning void traces That is IMO a mistake, these relics are trash there is not reason to ever put Traces into them. When I was dealing with the system I'd actually burn those to get traces for worthwhile (read: any other) relic(s). So hopefully that helps take some of the edge off for you. 10 hours ago, MagnasWill said: The same thing happened to me then I just put a bit of effort to kill it and now I'm free to ignore the system as long as I dont convert a grineer larvling.Easy Ayup, that's pretty much how I'm dealing with the Lich fiasco, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist. Dead content is dead and I'm just kinda hoping that when they add in more factions they fix they finally address the remaining glaring flaws with the Lich system. I mean hell it took them over a year to finally remove Archwing charges ..... so fingers crossed I guess. The more people who disengage with the content the faster they will get around to prioritizing fixing it. Edited November 28, 2019 by Oreades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I feel like the relics really aren't that bad of a grind. its a big barrier to entry but once you have all 8 mods it'll be a while before you need to get more. the big issue I have with the litch system is the murmur grind. they need to cut that S#&$ down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'll admit that I would really like the Lich removal policy more than anything, mainly because if other people get their Lich to Fack orf, mine could spawn. it's kinda grating when I've finally figured out my requiems and the correct Order, only for someone else's Lich to take the Spawn and people not be able to do anything about it without having their spine broken (not a big deal to me, but seems others feel different). my Liches are cowardly enough as it is when they know I've figured out the magic words, this doesn't help one bit. other than that, and maybe reducing the murmur grind slightly (at least for the third Requiem), I like the system. 24 minutes ago, Oreades said: The more people who disengage with the content the faster they will get around to prioritizing fixing it. except it should be the other way around shouldn't it? if people don't engage with it, why bother fixing it. if on the other hand everyone is playing it, DE should think "huh, this is popular, we should see if we can make it even better so that it stays popular!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollexMessier Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: I'll admit that I would really like the Lich removal policy more than anything, mainly because if other people get their Lich to Fack orf, mine could spawn. it's kinda grating when I've finally figured out my requiems and the correct Order, only for someone else's Lich to take the Spawn and people not be able to do anything about it without having their spine broken (not a big deal to me, but seems others feel different). my Liches are cowardly enough as it is when they know I've figured out the magic words, this doesn't help one bit. other than that, and maybe reducing the murmur grind slightly (at least for the third Requiem), I like the system. except it should be the other way around shouldn't it? if people don't engage with it, why bother fixing it. if on the other hand everyone is playing it, DE should think "huh, this is popular, we should see if we can make it even better so that it stays popular!" maybe just try to encounter him solo if you don't want other people's litches taking his spawn then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, PollexMessier said: maybe just try to encounter him solo if you don't want other people's litches taking his spawn then? sometimes I do, but for some reason mine never like to spawn when I'm solo. plus I've also begun to enjoy helping others with liches, despite my usually anti-social nature. plus after I've spent ages getting the last murmur, and the order correct, I wanna kill that Lich ASAP for it's weapon. sometimes it's just more efficient to PUG, which is fine as long as you don't expect others to play your way. I know others would benefit from the "three stabs, you're out" rule, maybe more than I would. the sooner it comes to console, the better for everyone really, solo and social Lich Hunters alike. it doesn't hurt to have options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, seprent said: Questions was this lich made before or after the opt in mechanic of a lich can only be made when you mercy kill it? if it was made before this mechanic why did you wait to till now to talk about it and not make this subject earlier? I'm guessing the implication with the question is that if it was made after "lol, ya just should have known better?" I guess because that's the sentiment I've been seeing quite a bit on the forums as of late and unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. Firstly even if people regularly read through all of the patch notes, the patch notes themselves are seldom sufficient to convey the exacting details of what to expect from said patch. Especially when DE will frequently leave out important specifics or be purposefully vague as to let the players discover things for themselves. Secondly most of a games playerbase WILL NOT visit the forums.... EVER..... Thirdly, ya really can't get a feel for how the Kuva Liches are going to play out until you start a Lich.... at which point you are screwed into completing it. Now since we can essentially write off "read the patch notes" because that is only ever going to be semi useful some of the time, maybe.... and the OP has all of three forum posts.... meaning clearly they have not be around for the back and forth about the irritation level of said content..... the only way they are going to get a grasp on said content is to attempt it for themselves. Unless they are psychic, in which case I rather think they would be sipping fancy umbrella drinks on their own private beach and not playing Warframe. TL;DR The "Opt out" only really works once you know what exactly you're opting out of and the only real way the average player is going to know that is by starting a Lich in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 13 hours ago, trst said: You initiated it by killing a Larva, if you don't want to engage with the system at all then don't do that again. Well, seeing as how the OP answered this point before you even made it... 14 hours ago, SardethWynn said: I mean it's not my thing, my Lich started with a radiation proc and two explosive barrels (IE: I didn't kill it). But yeah. The entire "lich" (please don't call them that, they are not liches, they don't have even a single lich-like trait) system is bullS#&$. I was lucky enough to look a bit more closely at the release notes which warned me to stay the hell away from this fancy new over-hyped pile of crap (and therefore to declare a full quarter of the solar system as a forbidden zone). For those who don't care about the forums, however, it would have been even more of a disaster. There is exactly zero information provided in-game as to what's going on. I can see this happening again and again in half a year's time when some new player finishes TWW, finds some enemy with the glowing red indicator above their head and thinks to themself "I want to see these fancy finisher animations". Then they suddenly have this obnoxious twat running around stealing their stuff. On the off chance that this player finally manages to encounter said git in a mission and shoot their health away... it'll just stand back up again. Maybe they'll try the cheap Chinese knockoff wristblade... only to get killed. After they've already won the fight. This is the kind of thing which was part of early-mid 2000s anti-piracy measures in video games. Where it worked normally for a bit to fool the release groups in to thinking that they had done their job correctly, but started trolling the player later on in the game. That's not going to make the player want to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Navalhabr Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Give a try. The FIRST Lich is hard, you don't have mods or relics. After that, everything is natural. "Passive farming" (at least for me). The 'Murmur hunting' is very fun. You can choose the mission you like (i like Rescue, Survival and Disruption). The Thralls will drop relics very often. While hunting for murmur, you can change the order of the mods and sometimes, discover the right one without complete the "Murmur Progress" (Will NOT consume the "red ball" of the Requiem). You can use each requiem 3 Times (Convert or Vanquish). "OH no.... i don't have the right one" -->> TRADE CHAT, Deal! Ty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxity Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, DoomFruit said: Well, seeing as how the OP answered this point before you even made it... But yeah. The entire "lich" (please don't call them that, they are not liches, they don't have even a single lich-like trait) system is bullS#&$. I was lucky enough to look a bit more closely at the release notes which warned me to stay the hell away from this fancy new over-hyped pile of crap (and therefore to declare a full quarter of the solar system as a forbidden zone). For those who don't care about the forums, however, it would have been even more of a disaster. There is exactly zero information provided in-game as to what's going on. I can see this happening again and again in half a year's time when some new player finishes TWW, finds some enemy with the glowing red indicator above their head and thinks to themself "I want to see these fancy finisher animations". Then they suddenly have this obnoxious twat running around stealing their stuff. On the off chance that this player finally manages to encounter said git in a mission and shoot their health away... it'll just stand back up again. Maybe they'll try the cheap Chinese knockoff wristblade... only to get killed. After they've already won the fight. This is the kind of thing which was part of early-mid 2000s anti-piracy measures in video games. Where it worked normally for a bit to fool the release groups in to thinking that they had done their job correctly, but started trolling the player later on in the game. That's not going to make the player want to continue. This. Though I have noticed, downing the larvaling and then watching them bleed out is both kinda sickly amusing and they drop mods. Got a target acquired off one last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atekron Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 16 hours ago, SardethWynn said: I know there going to be some Uber Players going to jump in here and tell me why I am wrong say I am a casual that is killing their game, etc... chill out, you are not killing this game, most players don't like this update either, although maybe for different reasons, for me it's just too grindy and too boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Aldain said: Unless you attempt to mercy it, then it kills you AND levels up. ...Still the worst part of the Lich system, automatic deaths are beans. ^ Why even call it Mercy when we are the one who's getting the Mercy crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atekron Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 6 hours ago, DerGreif2 said: All I hear is a player that had no clue what we was doing and now is angry that he dies here and there? Dude... you dont play many other games do you? WF is one of the most "friendliest" games I have ever played. The lich is the one thing in the complete game that you can not blast through and people whine about it... I think you have to accept that WF is going a different direction now (Lich, Meele rework). Stay and adapt or go. There is not much that will change in this case. yeah, completely different direction, downhill and sadly we can't change it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzadquiel Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 there is no way, and for a good reason. everyone would reset their lich the moment they dont like the weapon, element or bonus added. sh!tstorm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl_3 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Just now, tzadquiel said: there is no way, and for a good reason. everyone would reset their lich the moment they dont like the weapon, element or bonus added. sh!tstorm Then make the reset part of a weekly quest, something like a sortie. A Raid to sneak into the Kuva Fortress, find the resources required to create and then defend the machine that manufactures a special requiem mod, one that kills the Lich, but grants you none of the rewards for killing it. No weapon, no ephemera, no Lich. A Final Requiem. One Lich reset per week, It wouldn't harm the system, it would add playable content and it would stop people giving up simply because they do not want to grind a bad lich. It's been suggested over and over, but no one at DE wants to comment on it even being a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)FriendSharkey Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I spent weeks reading the forums and participating in the discussion over Lichs and I came to the conclusion it was better to just avoid it all together. Though I have made it a mini game in where If a Kuva Larva spawns in...I do my best to avoid it as much as possible... Now I've had one encounter and it was an exterminate and I had fun avoiding it.. It chased me through whole map as I was trying to get my 109 kills while avoiding number 110... So there's some fun to be had...It's like the Stalker if the Stalker was super weak and one mis-timed shot gets you a case of space malaria... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxity Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said: I spent weeks reading the forums and participating in the discussion over Lichs and I came to the conclusion it was better to just avoid it all together. Though I have made it a mini game in where If a Kuva Larva spawns in...I do my best to avoid it as much as possible... Now I've had one encounter and it was an exterminate and I had fun avoiding it.. It chased me through whole map as I was trying to get my 109 kills while avoiding number 110... So there's some fun to be had...It's like the Stalker if the Stalker was super weak and one mis-timed shot gets you a case of space malaria... I've found, over the years, a firm 'wait and see' policy with anything new is really the best option. Things like this rarely- if ever- drop in a reasonable state, and usually it's better to wait and either let them be tuned, or (as in the case of liches) totally ignored. That said, I think the larvalings drop mods when you let them bleed out, so I've been doing some test runs to see what that's about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprent Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Oreades said: I'm guessing the implication with the question is that if it was made after "lol, ya just should have known better?" I guess because that's the sentiment I've been seeing quite a bit on the forums as of late and unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. Firstly even if people regularly read through all of the patch notes, the patch notes themselves are seldom sufficient to convey the exacting details of what to expect from said patch. Especially when DE will frequently leave out important specifics or be purposefully vague as to let the players discover things for themselves. Secondly most of a games playerbase WILL NOT visit the forums.... EVER..... Thirdly, ya really can't get a feel for how the Kuva Liches are going to play out until you start a Lich.... at which point you are screwed into completing it. Now since we can essentially write off "read the patch notes" because that is only ever going to be semi useful some of the time, maybe.... and the OP has all of three forum posts.... meaning clearly they have not be around for the back and forth about the irritation level of said content..... the only way they are going to get a grasp on said content is to attempt it for themselves. Unless they are psychic, in which case I rather think they would be sipping fancy umbrella drinks on their own private beach and not playing Warframe. TL;DR The "Opt out" only really works once you know what exactly you're opting out of and the only real way the average player is going to know that is by starting a Lich in the first place. They were legit questions i was not trying be lol should have known better or lol reach patch notes If the lich was made before this opt in thing was implemented why post about it now? im questioning the timing not the topic it self like why post about something now when it happened a few weeks ago it lowers your potential chances of getting help most the time If this lich was made after this opt in Through the means OP has described then it is a bug and he is reporting it Granted id then say wrong subforum even if someone is no a fan of or frequents the forums they should think support can help with something like this and it doesn't hurt to ask if they can get rid of this either non player created lich or bug created lich i can agree with you on the third point you don't know how lichs play out until you play a lich out to kill or convert but i dont blame some people for not wanting to interact with the system since some people can feel out a system by simply watching others play though it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KikuVasNormandy Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Reggarding the initial complain... well, just kill that one and you are free, is very easy to avoid creating another Lich so there is that. Of course not every part of the game is for everybody, I personally dont like much Cetus Eidolons or Orbs like Profit Taker (but I like quite a bit the Ropalolyst), so I avoided to deal with the Eidolons for example for most of the time until now since I want the amps. In my case I suppose what my addaption hability is quite high plus I dont play meta builds... since I play in my own way, but I started playing 18 months ago and can´t complain about the changes really, even the Lich systems works fine for me for the mayority of the time after the last round of changes (but I agree what the shared murmurs on failed kills where good). So looking forward for the rest of Emyrean, the New War and the Duviri Paradox after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, seprent said: They were legit questions i was not trying be lol should have known better or lol reach patch notes If the lich was made before this opt in thing was implemented why post about it now? im questioning the timing not the topic it self like why post about something now when it happened a few weeks ago it lowers your potential chances of getting help most the time If this lich was made after this opt in Through the means OP has described then it is a bug and he is reporting it Granted id then say wrong subforum even if someone is no a fan of or frequents the forums they should think support can help with something like this and it doesn't hurt to ask if they can get rid of this either non player created lich or bug created lich i can agree with you on the third point you don't know how lichs play out until you play a lich out to kill or convert but i dont blame some people for not wanting to interact with the system since some people can feel out a system by simply watching others play though it In that case I apologize, there have been too many people taking the attitude that players should have known better without any way for them to actually know better and I shouldn't have jumped the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIDMOII Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I dont like it either but some of the weapons are pretty OP. The only challenge involved is your patience to tolerate the murmur grind. I'm not saying I disagree. I think old blood was a terribly unfinished mess, but the rewards are almost too good not to do them. Unless you're lucky and have some good rivens. It's a slog but the rewards are very good considering the lack of skill involved. All my weapon slots have been upgraded with kuva weapons that make my old arsenal look like a noob closet. Kuva weapons have straight up been the quickest and easiest power gain I've experienced in 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Dredgen__Totalus Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I don't care if You DOn'T wANt To LEveL tHEm uP, other people are trying to take down their Lich. So if you aren't going to do anything about your Lich, don't do the missions. And yeah, I know there's an update coming, but it still annoys the hell out of me, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaIthazar Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) I actually want MY Lich to show up so I can stab it. But it won't as long as Mr Murmur collector over here has his Lich out. Either stab your Lich or play solo Edited November 30, 2019 by BaIthazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiminez_Burial Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Solo/Recruit. There are two valid ways of working on Liches so don't be surprised when someone chooses the other option when you're in a public lobby. If it irks you so much, then eliminate the variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, (PS4)Dredgen__Totalus said: I don't care if You DOn'T wANt To LEveL tHEm uP, other people are trying to take down their Lich. So if you aren't going to do anything about your Lich, don't do the missions. And yeah, I know there's an update coming, but it still annoys the hell out of me, That'll teach console players not to laugh about PC client problems! Edited November 30, 2019 by Uhkretor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsmount Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) To be fair to them, DE did design the entire lich system around negative reinforcement / Positive Punishment. Which is fun for nobody. Even if you like the liches it's still a black mark and bad game design, you could enjoy it much more. Who in their right mind thinks it's a fun and engaging idea to all but force the player to kill themeslves 5-10+ times, the lich also on top of that growing in levels (and some people don't have meta frames, weapons, and mods to handle the high levels). And all for practically nothing. A metric chode-ton of effort just for a random weapon you still need a slot, potato, and 5 forma for, that's probably not even worth the effort. My current Lich has a fking Kraken with just a 28% bonus. I'd rather pleasure myself with a cactus than grind this lich but I'm nearly forced to or I can't try again with a different lich + he'll never go away unless I do. Imagine how rewarding the Lich system would feel if they multiplied all the stolen rewards by the level of the lich is at when you kill it. And now imagine the liches were actually liches and you can kill them with ANY 3 stab attempts, but they'll come back from death since you didn't have the right code, due to being a lich as per what a lich is supposed to be- immortal, not unkillable. The rune system would feel a lot better, fighting the liches would feel a lot better, the whole thing wont feel like a waste of time. Edited November 30, 2019 by Kingsmount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts