3rdpig Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Ralyks said: How many lichs are you up to on your method of farming all 3 murmurs first? I play about 2 hours a day. so I'm about halfway there. Do the math and tell me about how long it would take me to try every permutation of 8 words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralyks Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, 3rdpig said: I play about 2 hours a day. so I'm about halfway there. Do the math and tell me about how long it would take me to try every permutation of 8 words? You are getting murmurs while you trial and error the first word. Theres a 1 in 8 chance for you to guess that first word if you want some hard maths. Big brain Edited November 3, 2019 by Ralyks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdpig Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, Ralyks said: You're not trying to get the perfect combo your trying to guess the first one, by trying them all until you find it. and by then a murmur should have revealed one, which hopefully would be the first or second word. And now that you have found the first word you can see if your revealed murmur is second or third very easily. Then you just guess the middle or last. Its a huge time saver Ah, I see your plan. That will lower the number of permutations considerably, worst case scenario looks like 24? Still not going to do the math but yea, looks a lot better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbubblepants Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 3rdpig said: Hmmm, it is Sunday morning and I've only had one cup of coffee, but it seems to me as if you farm murmurs and know what the 3 words are you have 6 different combinations to try. But without knowing what the words are you have 8 words to deal with. I believe that ups the number of combinations considerably. I haven't done the math, but I'm thinking thousands of combinations from 8 words. 336 combinations if you want to but force it. Edited November 3, 2019 by mrbubblepants Forgot no duplicate words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbubblepants Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 minute ago, 3rdpig said: Ah, I see your plan. That will lower the number of permutations considerably, worst case scenario looks like 24? Still not going to do the math but yea, looks a lot better. If you know the first it drops to 49 combinations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralyks Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mrbubblepants said: If you know the first it drops to 49 combinations By the time you brute force the first, you will have revealed a word. it only takes 1 other attempt to know if that word is second or third. After that its just a 1 in 6 guess Edited November 3, 2019 by Ralyks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX-3DR Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, 3rdpig said: Do the math and tell me about how long it would take me to try every permutation of 8 words? 7 + 6 + 5 = 18 if you're doing it correctly. Since the combination is done from left to right, at most, you will need 7 tries to eliminate all but 1. On the 7th, you would know that the word is the 8th. This is repeated for each step with one less try since words cannot be repeated. Realistically, the odds of doing 18 to finally know the combination is extremely low, but getting your Kuva lich to level 9 is not a good experience. This is in contrast with 3 rounds at most if you know all 3 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbubblepants Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Your third word still has six possibilities if you dont fram murmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbubblepants Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, RX-3DR said: 7 + 6 + 5 = 18 if you're doing it correctly. Since the combination is done from left to right, at most, you will need 7 tries to eliminate all but 1. On the 7th, you would know that the word is the 8th. This is repeated for each step with one less try since words cannot be repeated. Realistically, the odds of doing 18 to finally know the combination is extremely low, but getting your Kuva lich to level 9 is not a good experience. This is in contrast with 3 rounds at most if you know all 3 words. It 8x7x6 this is just for raw possible combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephmeister Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ralyks said: You're not trying to get the perfect combo your trying to guess the first one, by trying them all until you find it. and by then a murmur should have revealed one, which hopefully would be the second or third word. And now that you have found the first word you can see if your revealed murmur is second or third very easily. Then you just guess the middle or last. Its a huge time saver More players need to see this so they can cut their time farming the murmurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephmeister Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ralyks said: You're not trying to get the perfect combo your trying to guess the first one, by trying them all until you find it. and by then a murmur should have revealed one, which hopefully would be the second or third word. And now that you have found the first word you can see if your revealed murmur is second or third very easily. Then you just guess the middle or last. Its a huge time saver More players need to see this so they can cut their time farming the murmurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdpig Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 My mistake was not realizing that it told you when you had one right. I had assumed that it was a pass/fail on all three. I guess I should have played it more before shooting my mouth off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem2-TheClemening Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 58 minutes ago, Askorti said: Well, I'm sorry, but what if I don't have the mods necessary for it yet? I will have to raise my Lich's level, making fighting him tougher down the line for your convenience? While normally I'm all for being considerate of others, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna do it for you. If you don't have any Requiems that you haven't tried, you should be getting those, not collecting murmurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX-3DR Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, mrbubblepants said: It 8x7x6 this is just for raw possible combinations. But it does not function that way in practice with the explanation given. 8 x 7 x 6 = 336 is the number of combinations that would give you an instant kill on your first try. In practice however, as you would only be testing a single slot each time, you would not be fiddling with the 2nd and 3rd slot until you have gotten the 1st slot correct. By that point, you will never touch the 1st slot until completion. Likewise, you wouldn't be touching the 3rd slot until you've completed the 2nd. 8 x 7 x 6 is for a padlock with no duplicates where you are testing all 3 slots at the same time. I'm not advocating for brute forcing it though. Dealing with a level 100 Lich with mobs is a massive headache, it was plenty annoying dealing with a level 5 Lich with Radiation resistance on solo. Brute forcing feels like you're digging yourself into a hole where you need people around to help with the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbubblepants Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, RX-3DR said: But it does not function that way in practice with the explanation given. 8 x 7 x 6 = 336 is the number of combinations that would give you an instant kill on your first try. In practice however, as you would only be testing a single slot each time, you would not be fiddling with the 2nd and 3rd slot until you have gotten the 1st slot correct. By that point, you will never touch the 1st slot until completion. Likewise, you wouldn't be touching the 3rd slot until you've completed the 2nd. 8 x 7 x 6 is for a padlock with no duplicates where you are testing all 3 slots at the same time. I'm not advocating for brute forcing it though. Dealing with a level 100 Lich with mobs is a massive headache, it was plenty annoying dealing with a level 5 Lich with Radiation resistance on solo. Brute forcing feels like you're digging yourself into a hole where you need people around to help with the fight. Yes. Thats why i said raw combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon-Darkheart Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Ralyks said: Players ignoring their lichs and blocking spawns for the rest of the squad is a REALLY BAD PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. Its faster to farm murmurs in a squad so playing solo cripples your farm. Its now taking almost twice as long to complete a lich encounter because inconsiderate players ignore their lich preventing mine from spawning. There needs to be a despawn timer, a vote to kick, a something. Because players are A******s. tbh they are not much opinions. I mean 1. Yes, one opinion could be that an lich despawns but maybe you wanted to "clean the area first" before you go attack him. Noone wants to fight such boss in a freaking crowd of mops so yea, that could be a problem. 2. That more than 1 lich can spawn at the same time but tbh, i dont like the idea. Think about it, if one lich already hurts you on a survival mission, what if you got 4 at ones~? So a no-go here too. 3. a Kick opinion just becorse a player is maybe not even ABLE to kill their lich sounds a bit over the top for me. what if youre the one player and you cant do your lich since you dont know your combination? Not really a fair treat... The only thing i can think of is if you "run away TO far" that a lich might despawn, else, not much of other "FAIR" opinions are left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teljaxx Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 This is definitely a problem, as evidenced by just how many threads there are saying the same thing. But don't go blaming other players, or calling them rude for not letting their Lich kill them. This is DE's fault, so blame them. They are the ones who made a boss fight where the best way to "engage" with it is to ignore it until you have done a huge amount of other stuff first, yet it can force itself upon you way before you are ready. And the fact that they can block each other from spawning is just the rancid icing on the moldy cake. And yes, the Lich does get quite a bit stronger when it levels up. Its health goes up, It does more damage, it takes over more planets at once, and it steals more per mission. So letting it kill you, and letting it level up unnecessarily can be extremely annoying. And personally, I am currently in a situation where I am 100% certain that I cannot kill my Lich. I currently know 2/3 of the Requiem words. And, even after hours of farming, I have yet to find one of the two mods I know I need. So even if I bring three random mods and try to Mercy him, I know it won't work. So it would be stupid to even try. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralyks Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said: tbh they are not much opinions. I mean 1. Yes, one opinion could be that an lich despawns but maybe you wanted to "clean the area first" before you go attack him. Noone wants to fight such boss in a freaking crowd of mops so yea, that could be a problem. 2. That more than 1 lich can spawn at the same time but tbh, i dont like the idea. Think about it, if one lich already hurts you on a survival mission, what if you got 4 at ones~? So a no-go here too. 3. a Kick opinion just becorse a player is maybe not even ABLE to kill their lich sounds a bit over the top for me. what if youre the one player and you cant do your lich since you dont know your combination? Not really a fair treat... The only thing i can think of is if you "run away TO far" that a lich might despawn, else, not much of other "FAIR" opinions are left. if you do not know your lichs combination you should be eager to try words to learn the first one, and even you have no mods. Accept your death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon-Darkheart Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ralyks said: if you do not know your lichs combination you should be eager to try words to learn the first one, and even you have no mods. Accept your death. tbh, thats egoistical. why should i fight something if it makes no sense to fight it right now? Just to get killed by tring? Meh, DE needs another way for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluhi Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) My first attempt took until I unlocked all 3 murmurs as I was unlucky guessing the first slot but by time I unlocked 3rd murmur I already knew that the first 2 murmurs reveals was in 2/3 slots and I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right on first try after getting the 3rd unlocked, while before then I was attempting to guess the first one which if gotten right would of shorted my amount of attempts needed total. My 2nd lich I got first slot on second attempt unlocking first murmur reveal which was different then one I guess, on 3rd attempt found out the revealed one was not the 2 mod but the 3 mod slot by trying it in 2nd slot. Got unlucky with 4/5/6 attempt before unlocking last murmur reveal as my second reveal was first slot mod, but I knew instantly what my combo string of mods was because I had already tried 1st and 3rd slot mods, and now I just needed to get my lich to spawn but was blocked on 3 mission in a row by people not killing/attempting thiers. My 3rd lich I again got lucky got 2nd attempt first slot correct guess, and first murmur different, 3rd attempt found revealed mods slot, now again I have a 1 in 6, 1 in 5, 1 in 4 chance next three attempts to get it right and this is before I get second murmur reveal which could show me the 3rd mod I need. People not killing their liches, slows down the process for everyone. They are also messing up their own chances as you should not even attempt to do the lich missions till you get all 8 mods as to minimize the chance for them to steal your relics and such because until you start clearing the first planet your lich is on of these mission they will not spread out to multiple other planets. You start doing the mission before the relics now your lich is stealing from 4,5,7 etc other planets increasing your chance that he will steal a relic from a planet the kuva missions shows up on. The only notable penalty for losing to lich is it leveling it up. So far none I have done have gone past rank 5 using brute force checks making the mission lvl 90-110 or final sortie levels. Based on the average amount of times lich shows up per murmur reveal in a 4 person group on average you get 2 attempts per reveal 3 if unlucky on thrall spawn or lich showing up more often. Just going off that a brute for method will at times get lucky and get the combo of mods and order in 1 to 8 tries, while a person that waits will at minimum waste 6 spawns before attempting to solve the order which can take another 3ish attempts because they don't got the order figure out, yet on top of that slowing everyone else down and hurting their own chances of getting relics. Edited November 3, 2019 by Fluhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askorti Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, Clem2-TheClemening said: If you don't have any Requiems that you haven't tried, you should be getting those, not collecting murmurs. I'm collecting murmurs so that I know what mods I'm going to need to begin with. How you didn't think of that is beyond me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebore Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Askorti said: Well, I'm sorry, but what if I don't have the mods necessary for it yet? I will have to raise my Lich's level, making fighting him tougher down the line for your convenience? While normally I'm all for being considerate of others, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna do it for you. Level 5 Lichs aren't even that hard to kill, just bring the weapons with the elements that he does not have immunity to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX-3DR Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Fluhi said: They are also messing up their own chances as you should not even attempt to do the lich missions till you get all 8 mods as to minimize the chance for them to steal your relics and such because until you start clearing the first planet your lich is on of these mission they will not spread out to multiple other planets. You start doing the mission before the relics now your lich is stealing from 4,5,7 etc other planets increasing your chance that he will steal a relic from a planet the kuva missions shows up on. This is more of a disadvantage on trying to strike a balance between both. As you level up your Lich, it will hold more territory which means brute forcing the Lich while trying to get more words will make this an issue. However, avoiding your Lich completely while getting murmurs to pinpoint words will usually leave your Lich with very little territory, making it very unlikely that anything of value would be stolen. You can even clean up almost all the nodes by taking the safe route then try your luck with what you have when you're down to your last node. Edited November 3, 2019 by RX-3DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askorti Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rebore said: Level 5 Lichs aren't even that hard to kill, just bring the weapons with the elements that he does not have immunity to. They're not difficult, but they're a huge pain in the keister to down. At level 5 they have stupid levels of DR and it takes a long time to kill them. It's not challenging, just a nuisance. Also, my particular Kuva Lich had the ability to teleport and swap places with me, which made him bug out several times and teleport to places I couldn't hit it, like behind a wall. The whole issue with the Kuva lich and the whole gameplay surrounding it is that it involves no difficulty whatsoever, just layer upon layer of nuisance and annoyance. And I'm not even some sort of veteran with pimped out kits that can do ungodly amounts of damage. And even I don't find it challenging. Just annoying. Edited November 3, 2019 by Askorti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNxMatthew Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, GnarlsDarkley said: No. This is trolling and will be sanctioned by support if reported because you purposely stop the mission. Not killing the lich won't. The mission goes on, your lich will just not spawn Thats a difference Man I wish you had been there for me. I had three guys in my mission not open a dual lock because I wouldn't attack my lich. It was a rescue mission and one of the guy said I was holding the three of them hostage rather than the other way around. I even got reported, presumably by all three of them, because I was being "uncooperative" as one of them put it. Edited November 3, 2019 by WNxMatthew Additional information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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