Other players not engaging their lichs blocking other lich spawns

[White_Matter]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Point to a an official source or something within the game that actually hints that the level increase will be far higher than level 20. Not even the starting level of the actual Lich is stated anywhere and those mobs are far beyond the level 20 mission requirement. It is kinda like people jumping into a PuG an eidolon run and expecting a prefect frame/amp/weapon setup from everyone.

I also have no reason to level up my lich even if I can take care of it effortlessly at max rank, because it is utterly and completely pointless to do so. And as the system is set up, it is more beneficial for everyone that is hunting murmurs to simply focus on thralls, since more thralls means a greater chance at relics, which means less time wasted on kuva siphons in order to get mods.

It isnt the players fault, neither of the two sides are to blame, it all falls on DE and no one else. The system is just poorly designed with too many loop holes, contradictions, odd interactions and so on. The system is fun and has great potential, but as it is now it punishes the gameplay of one of the two sides depending on what group you end up in and what approach to take. Neither of those approaches is the only correct one, both are just as viable and fully depends on playstyle and preference.

Currently with a few liches under my belt and more mods I do a mix of both. When I need to fill up on mods I ignore my lich, when I feel like trying a blind combo, I do just that. I wont get pissed if someone else doesnt kill their lich when I plan of doing some trial and error, I accept it and get some more relics (hopefully) in the process.

I agree that it is a poorly designed system, I also think DE didn't put much thought behind many aspects of this update, not just lich difficulty, but again if you aren't dealing with your lich, you are preventing other liches from spawning which means you are disrupting the gameplay of other players, which you have no right to do so.

I'll say it one last time, there is no justifiable excuse to being selfish, period. It is not like the game isn't giving you any options. You can always play the content solo if you don't want to level up your lich.

 

 

 

[SordidDreams]

2 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

but it will get hard anyway andif you play public you can never be sure that the level will not be over 100.

i just gave you an exsample of a host probably not being able to handle it. what would you do then? leave them alone or at least try to help?

so when the level gets higher because you figured out the mods but not the order THEN you should go solo. this is complete backwards.

this whole avoid level 100+ is a complete non-arguement because it's never guaranteed that a publich mission will not reach that level. if you play public you are most likely to join a mission anyway so leveling the lich doesn't do much apart from making the fight a bit easier. all of this is also a loss for others who would like their lich to spawn and figure out the order of the mods. here andexsample for you: you lich is level 3 since you tried the 3 mods before and now figured out the order and it's about to spawn in the next mission. but you are unsure wether you can kill it or not so you go into a public mission and another lich spawns but the person who it belongs to doesn't kill it. so you join another mission for thesame thing to happen again. your lich was guaranteed to spawn and now you've run mission just to get more or less nothing. the same thing will hapen over and over while you know the 2 or 3 mods but still need to figure out the order but you can't because your lich never spawn thanks to that on person in the group.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to continuing this discussion. I keep telling you why you're wrong, but you just keep repeating the same arguments that I literally just refuted.

[SordidDreams]

Edit: Double.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[SordidDreams]

Edit: Triple! Best forum, 10/10.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Hiirios]

Gerade eben schrieb SordidDreams:

There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to continuing this discussion. I keep telling you why you're wrong, but you just keep repeating the same arguments that I literally just refuted.

all you said was wait till you figure out the 3 mods and it's hard too hard for some people when the lich is too high level. but i guess you can't actually see the points of others.

in short:

1. if you play in public missions you have no idea what level it'll be or wether the host can actually handle it. the point of playing public is to get help from others.

2. by not fighting/killing your lich when he spawns you prevent other liches to spawn. liches which could've been posibly killed in the mission or give a big hint toward the the 3 mods others need to use or the order of them. even though the needlessly dieing doesn't feel good

3. the lich will level up anyway because you can't be sure about the order of the 3 mods even if you know which mods.

4. if you run public it becomes pretty easy to deal with liches even if you are not that good equiped.
why would you run a difficult mission if you are not able to anyway? maybe you should at least try to get better mods befor.

5. if you want to run the ~60 mission then play solo. it's pretty easy and you do not hinder others from confronting their lich and once you know your 3 mods you can change to public and kill your lich with the rest of the group.

6. it's a pain to know your lich would've spawned and you were close to killing him or actually could've done so but because someone doesn't fight their lich yours doesn't spawn.

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

1. if you play in public missions you have no idea what level it'll be or wether the host can actually handle it. the point of playing public is to get help from others.

As I said, presumably the host can handle whatever level they've made their lich missions.

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

2. by not fighting/killing your lich when he spawns you prevent other liches to spawn. liches which could've been posibly killed in the mission or give a big hint toward the the 3 mods others need to use or the order of them. even though the needlessly dieing doesn't feel good

As I said, by fighting your lich you make your future lich missions much harder for yourself. As I said, asking people to do that to themselves just so you can maybe get your measly ten murmurs is selfish.

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

3. the lich will level up anyway because you can't be sure about the order of the 3 mods even if you know which mods.

As I said, yes, but there's no reason to make it harder for yourself earlier than necessary.

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

4. if you run public it becomes pretty easy to deal with liches even if you are not that good equiped.
why would you run a difficult mission if you are not able to anyway? maybe you should at least try to get better mods befor.

As I said, maybe because you listened to selfish people, attacked your lich, and now you're stuck with high-level missions that you're unready for?

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

5. if you want to run the ~60 mission then play solo. it's pretty easy and you do not hinder others from confronting their lich and once you know your 3 mods you can change to public and kill your lich with the rest of the group.

As I said, if you want a guaranteed confrontation with your lich, then play solo. It's pretty easy to not demand that others screw themselves over for your benefit.

9 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

6. it's a pain to know your lich would've spawned and you were close to killing him or actually could've done so but because someone doesn't fight their lich yours doesn't spawn.

This is literally the same thing as point 5, so again, as I said, if you want a guaranteed confrontation with your lich, then play solo. It's pretty easy to not demand that others screw themselves over for your benefit.

See what I mean about just repeating the same refuted arguments? Every single point that you claim I don't understand, I have already addressed and refuted, yet there they are again.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Keiyadan]

The hole thing is like if all would play solo there is no problem but then why is it a coop game.

I mean all the people that dont want to have to interact with others and the ways they play should just play solo and there is no problem for anyone because the ones that play open will have to agree how others play me for the example tryed to fight my lich but the others decied they want to end the mission so in the middel of my killing fight with the lich i got extracted but here is the thing. I was not happy about it but then i did another mission and killed him so whats the point why it seem noone can play a 2. or a third mission to do the thing what he wants its only a ego thing.

To be not happy about the situation is fine. but hey its just a game. no player will die if he does another mission or think how he can improve his play by changeing some things.
but its clearly all the other players have to be the bad ones.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Keiyadan

[Dauggie]

On 2019-11-03 at 10:51 PM, Ralyks said:

Players ignoring their lichs and blocking spawns for the rest of the squad is a REALLY BAD PROBLEM RIGHT NOW. Its faster to farm murmurs in a squad so playing solo cripples your farm. Its now taking almost twice as long to complete a lich encounter because inconsiderate players ignore their lich preventing mine from spawning.

There needs to be a despawn timer, a vote to kick, a something. Because players are A******s.

yes its pissing me the #*!% off, even mr27 acting like bunch of noobs. go play solo if you want to not kill your lich. finding all 3 words takes lot of time, just get all mods and try your luck. you'll reveal mods easier

[Hiirios]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

As I said, presumably the host can handle whatever level they've made their lich missions.

that is just a guess from you. you say it yourself that some people are not ready to kill their liches or do the missions when they are too high. you can not be sure wether they can handle it or not no matter what you say..

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

As I said, by fighting your lich you make your future lich missions much harder for yourself. As I said, asking people to do that to themselves just so you can maybe get your measly ten murmurs is selfish.

 

vor 8 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

As I said, yes, but there's no reason to make it harder for yourself earlier than necessary.

this also isn't really true the only thing that becomes harder is the fight in itself. when you play public you are more like to join others and these missions can be either ~60 or 100+ it's just random what you get. even if you are the host it's pretty likely other join fast and are a big help

vor 9 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

As I said, maybe because you listened to selfish people, attacked your lich, and now you're stuck with high-level missions that you're unready for?

why would they be selfhish? they just want their own kuva liches to spawn and maybe they also can't handle it solo but you're not letting that happen.
this is why you play public to get help with missions. and you can't tell me that complete noobs just stranded in a 100+ lich mission. it's warframe it's not that hard. and if it's overall to hard you should get some mods beforehand and make it easier. it's not like you're always without mods like when you start the game

 

vor 12 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

As I said, if you want a guaranteed confrontation with your lich, then play solo. It's pretty easy to not demand that others screw themselves over for your benefit.

maybe there are people who can't handle it solo so they make sure the lich spawns in the next mission and go public. but then the lich doesn't spawn over and over because people don't fight theirs.

the only arguements for leaving the lich is either "it's too hard" or "the lich spawns thralls". both are valid.

but why play something you are not equiped for and then whine it's too hard? just do a bit farming beforehand for some mods or so and you're good. also this is warframe it's not like level 100 enemies are too hard. most people handle them easily.

as for the efficiency of thralls and murmurs. it's probably more efficient to see if the lich spawns in the next mission too. but why would you do it in public where other people would like to fight their lich. just play solo in the level ~60 range until you know the mods you need and then. you could also get a team with others who would like to run like that but most people in public would like to fight their lich because everyone still needs to figure out the order of the mods and for that you need to fight the lich.

[Softballbryan]

 If you’re on public and you’re Lich shows up... down it... if you’re too damn selfish/concerned/scared to move the current public mission forward for your teammates, please play solo... it’s that simple... 

[SordidDreams]

10 minutes ago, Softballbryan said:

If you’re on public and you’re Lich shows up... down it... if you’re too damn selfish/concerned/scared to move the current public mission forward for your teammates, please play solo... it’s that simple...

Quit being selfish and demanding that other people screw themselves over for your benefit. If you want a guaranteed shot at your own lich, play solo. It's that simple.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Saber-142]

lmao had to come back here..

Was in a squad of 4, my lich spawned. Some guy started telling me to go die to my lich so that he could get his to spawn. Got tired of his spams and went and fought my lich to die without gaining any new knowledge (my only hidden mod was my first one 🙃 - i already knew this). Guy doesn't even get his lich. Starts raging at me for 'breaking' his lich.

Conclusion? My lich gets even more stronger (lvl 4) which is news that really affects me, the angry guy isn't effected in the slightest. The rest of the squad does not benefit from the additional thralls the lich would've converted which means lower murmur.

People are fun

oh right and i was still called selfish 🙂 

[Softballbryan]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Quit being selfish and demanding that other people screw themselves over for your benefit. If you want a guaranteed shot at your own lich, play solo. It's that simple.

I avoid being selfish by playing solo when necessary for others to enjoy the public portion of the game...

[Hiirios]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

Quit being selfish and demanding that other people screw themselves over for your benefit. If you want a guaranteed shot at your own lich, play solo. It's that simple.

if people can't handle it they shouldn't do it. it's that easy. all you know is saying selfish while admitting you don't even engage in the lich system.

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Hiirios said:

if people can't handle it they shouldn't do it. it's that easy.

So you agree with me that people shouldn't attack liches and make things impossible to handle for themselves? That's what I've been saying all along, good to see you come around.

[Ephemiel]

Maybe if DE added a way to make him flee rather than force you to ignore him completely or fight and make it stronger, this wouldn't happen.

But i kinda think DE didn't think that far ahead, i imagine one of them just played Shadow of Mordor/War and thought it was cool without understanding how the Nemesis system actually works.

[Hiirios]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

So you agree with me that people shouldn't attack liches and make things impossible to handle for themselves? That's what I've been saying all along, good to see you come around.

again you are not able to see the big picture. if people can't handle things they should get help (play public). if they still can't they should leave all of this for later and farm something to make it easier.

and you know i mean that people shouldn't play lich mission, ANY lich mission if they can't handle it. just stay out of the system until you're ready.

i guess someone like you who only killed 1 lich and then left it all doesn't understand much about it

[Test-995]

Even if you say "play solo", and if, i don't, then my lich spawns instead of you, i decide to not kill it, of course you can't kill your lich, yet i won't get banned.

This is the problem, only de can fix it because there is no way to influence every one of players, "play solo" is a bandaid fix for those kind of problems.

 

[SordidDreams]

44 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

i imagine one of them just played Shadow of Mordor/War and thought it was cool without understanding how the Nemesis system actually works.

It seems to me they're really bored with making Warframe and want to make other kinds of games, but since WF is their only source of revenue, they have no choice but to implement them as side features into it. And because they're just side features, they end up poorly thought out, rushed, and generally crappy. Wyrmius, archwing, Frame Fighter, the fishing minigame, k-drives, now the nemesis system... railjack and space combat in the future. It's all the same kind of thing, crappy half-a**ed shots at making other types of games and integrating them into WF. Seems to me DE has lost its vision of what WF should be, they're just throwing in whatever seems cool to them at the moment.

39 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

again you are not able to see the big picture. if people can't handle things they should get help (play public).

So do what they are doing? To which you then respond by telling them to get out of your way and play solo? Sounds like you need to make up your mind.

39 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

if they still can't they should leave all of this for later and farm something to make it easier.

The lich system actively discourages that by making liches steal what you farm. Your demand that people stab their liches makes that worse, causing them to steal more. But y'know, it's me not seeing the big picture here.

39 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

just stay out of the system until you're ready.

That's easier said than done, given that lich larvae spawn in level 20+ missions and the game gives zero indication of just how hard the lich content is going to get. Imagine being a newb making your way through the star chart, you spawn a lich because you don't know better because the game never explains anything, and now you're stuck with it until you can comfortably do level 100 content? And that's your advice, to just keep trucking along for who knows how many months until you're finally able to take that thing down? You're even more out of touch than DE.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[vegetosayajin]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

That's easier said than done, given that lich larvae spawn in level 20+ missions and the game gives zero indication of just how hard the lich content is going to get. Imagine being a newb making your way through the star chart, you spawn a lich because you don't know better because the game never explain anything, and now you're stuck with it until you can comfortably do level 100 content? And that's your advice, to just keep trucking along for who knows how many months until you're finally able to take that thing down? You're even more out of touch than DE.

Yea I encountered a few lads like that, they were really struggling.

[Hiirios]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:

That's easier said than done, given that lich larvae spawn in level 20+ missions and the game gives zero indication of just how hard the lich content is going to get. Imagine being a newb making your way through the star chart, you spawn a lich because you don't know better because the game never explain anything, and now you're stuck with it until you can comfortably do level 100 content? And that's your advice, to just keep trucking along for who knows how many months until you're finally able to take that thing down? You're even more out of touch than DE.

yeah because it's so hard not to run a kuva lich mission when choosing missions instead of trying to get some mods first

[SordidDreams]

3 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

yeah because it's so hard not to run a kuva lich mission when choosing missions instead of trying to get some mods first

What part of "the game gives zero indication of how hard the lich content is going to get" did you not understand?

[Hiirios]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:

What part of "the game gives zero indication of how hard the lich content is going to get" did you not understand?

what do you think normal people do when they have something they can't do in an mmo? they farm until they can.

you only killed one lich so i have no idea how much you know. even after creating a lich it does nothing until you run it's missions. so there is nothing to loose.

nothing speaks against farming until you can do something. 

[SordidDreams]

5 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

what do you think normal people do when they have something they can't do in an mmo? they farm until they can.

Warframe isn't an MMO. Also, farming for necessary items usually doesn't take hundreds of hours. Also, the thing you're trying to gear up for is usually not stealing the very gear you're trying to farm up.

5 minutes ago, Hiirios said:

you only killed one lich so i have no idea how much you know. even after creating a lich it does nothing until you run it's missions. so there is nothing to loose.

Clealry I know more than you, because I know they steal from you even in non-lich missions. I don't know if you're lying or ignorant, but please don't spread misinformation. Having a lich sitting around is not harmless, especially if people give in to your demands, level it up, and thereby allow it to spread its influence. Remember when I said your demands are selfish and your advice terrible?

Edited November 11, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Hiirios]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SordidDreams:

Warframe isn't an MMO. Also, farming for necessary items usually doesn't take hundreds of hours. Also, the thing you're trying to gear up for is usually not stealing the very gear you're trying to farm up.

warframe is basically working on grinding and if you don't grind you can't get anything done. that's it. you also don't need anything from the kuva lich missions since it's the same you get from normal missions. 

 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb SordidDreams:

because I know they steal from you even in non-lich missions. I don't know if you're lying or ignorant, but please don't spread misinformation. Having a lich sitting around is not harmless.

you do realise that it's only one planet you get stolen from when you don't engage with the kuva lich. it's also one tenth of recources. what you need are mods and most mods can be farmed everywhere. not to mention next to no mods get actually stolen. 

you also make it sound that level 100 enemies are the hardest thing ever. it's warframe. it's not really hard.

DE doesn't expect you to go 5h into survival but just do a normal mission with a higher level and maybe one enemy who can be somewhat difficult. just use something like excal, wisp for blinding the lich and it will do next to nothing. saryn and octavia can just put dmg on it and leave it. other just tank it. it's not that hard.
also why would anyone in ANY game do something that is way above their level? it's that simple you either can do it or not. if not get some mods maybe another frame or weapon and that's it. you don't have to ruin the spawn of liches for others because you can't do it and don't want to farm until you can.