Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Arreka

About melee weapons too weakened

Recommended Posts

I have something to say to developers of DE.
I don't know if you'll see my post here.
I wish.

I want to talk about melee weapon updates.

For at least the last four years, melee weapons have been much stronger than guns.
I've been doing most of my battles with melee weapons for four years, and I'm happy with that.
But I also thought that performance needed to be balanced between melee weapons and guns.

There were many changes to the melee weapons in a large update that was released a few days ago.

There were a lot of melee weapons that Tenno didn't use due to bad base performance.
The weapons have been changed to be good enough to use.
Melee weapon stances that are reluctant to use are now very useful.
The range system for melee attacks has changed and shorter weapons can now be used more usefully with [Primed Reach].

I think these are surprisingly good changes.
DE found out exactly why non-mainstream weapons are being ignored, and they succeeded in balancing them.
I would like to thank the DE developers for this.

 

But I found some imbalances in other changes.

The old [Blood Rush] used to be used with the old [Maiming Strike].
This needed to be nerfed because it created an unusually high critical chance compared to melee weapons not suited to slide attacks or guns.
[Condition Overload] was also used to create overwhelming damage that guns couldn't keep up with, so it needed to be nerfed.

However, melee weapons have become too weak.
It's probably because [Blood Rush] and [Condition Overload] are nerfed at the same time.

I have made many experimental attempts over the past few days to maximize the performance of melee weapons.
I've done a lot of experiments, including adding or excluding [Blood Rush] or [Condition Overload], and putting mods to replace them.

I failed as a result.
Although I've completed the most efficient modding, the performance of my melee weapons is only about 1/20 of what they were.

I think the developers of DE created Heavy Attack to complement the nerfed modes of melee weapons.
Or they might have nerfed the mods of melee weapons in consideration of Heavy Attack.

But Heavy Attack is slow and uncomfortable.
Even this is not as strong as the combo count consumed.
I don't want to use heavy attacks, but if I don't use this, my melee weapon's performance will drop to 1/26.

It is true that conventional melee weapons were too strong.
Guns and melee weapons were out of balance.
So developers of DE needed to nerf melee weapons.
But this patch isn't balanced, it seems to have collapsed in the opposite direction.

Melee weapons have a penalty of approaching an enemy for use.
Given the low damage of current melee weapons, there seems to be insufficient return on that risk.

 

I would also like to talk about [Maiming Strike].
[Maiming Strike] was a Mod that increased the critical chance only for slide attacks.
It was a special mod that adds up to '+90%'.
And, as I said before, [Maiming Strike] was also a Mod that made unusually strong damage when used with [Blood Rush].
[Maiming Strike] was nerfed with this update.
The number increased from '+90%' to '+150%', but performance went down a bit as the calculations shifted to multiplication.

I was wondering if DE really needed to nerf [Maiming Strike], as DE nerf [Blood Rush].
[Blood Rush] has already lost synergy with [Maiming Strike].

[Maiming Strike], which is used without [Blood Rush], is useful enough, but not an OP.
Rather, this mode was a grateful Mod that allows you to use bizarre weapons with high critical multiplier with low critical chance.
I thought [Maiming Strike] was one of Warframe's unique personalities not found in other games.

Melee weapons would weaken anyway due to the nerf of [Blood Rush] and [Condition Overload].
I wonder if you really needed to nerf to [Maiming Strike].

I think the nerf of [Blood Rush] and [Condition Overload] was necessary.
If not, the new heavy attack would be too strong.
But [Maiming Strike] has no correlation with heavy attack.
I wonder if you really needed to nerf to [Maiming Strike].

I hope [Maiming Strike] rolls back.
To be honest, I miss this Mod.

I don't want to change the control habits that I've used to my hands for the last four years.
That habit was given to me by you, the developers of DE, not by others.

And I'm sad to see one of Warframe's unique personalities disappearing.

[Blood Rush] has already been heavily nerfed.
Anyway, [Maiming Strike] can't be the same OP as past days.
I hope [Maiming Strike] rolls back.

Perhaps there are others who don't like heavy attack, why it's slow and uncomfortable.
They may not want to give up their habits of enjoying Warframe over the years.
For those people, I think that the rollback of [Maiming Strike] can be a big gift.

 

You may not rollback [Maiming Strike].
Still, I think there should be an buff for melee weapons.

The performance balance between mainstream and non-mainstream weapons was perfect.
However, there is a problem with the balance between firearms and melee weapons.

 

Thank you for reading this long post.

I wrote my thoughts, and I'm not a nerd who thinks what I'm saying is unconditionally right and DE must follow my opinion.
DE, please read my post carefully, but please use your own judgment.
Please accept my suggestion as one of the many opinions and update it in the direction you think is right.

If your conclusions differ from my opinion, I think you are right.
And I believe you will do well.

 

Edited by Arreka
  • Applause 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Arreka said:

Although I've completed the most efficient modding, the performance of my melee weapons is only about 1/20 of what they were.

Yeah part of the reason is that the combo counter is limited to 12x (220 hits) at most, if there was no limit no one would complain about damage but instead wind-up time.

10 minutes ago, Arreka said:

I hope [Maiming Strike] rolls back.

It won't DE stated that it has been a problem mod since they released it and promotes unhealthy "boring" gameplay, i.e. Spin-2-Win. So chances that they roll back are pretty much 0.

11 minutes ago, Arreka said:

Perhaps there are others who don't like heavy attack, why it's slow and uncomfortable.

From what i've seen many agree that they are too slow. Personally, i don't both with heavy attacks but rather heavy slam attacks as slam attacks are surprisingly good as they:

1. do good damage in a wide range (stronger if it's a heavy slam)

2. Most importantly, it increases your combo count ridiculously high for a single attack (on average 2 times the number of enemies in the slam range)

3. No longer ragdolls or knocks down enemies and weakens.

This means that you can literally spam slam attacks, rack up a large combo count and then use a heavy slam attack for lots of damage, weakening surviving enemies for more slam attacks.

But that's only if i'm messing around, i normally just use the forward button mash combo and when i get to 12x i spend it on a slam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Arreka said:

I hope [Maiming Strike] rolls back.

What's so exciting about floor polishing?

At least rushing through the level doing normal combos looks cool.

Edited by Xaero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

It won't DE stated that it has been a problem mod since they released it and promotes unhealthy "boring" gameplay, i.e. Spin-2-Win. So chances that they roll back are pretty much 0.

which ofcourse, was objectively wrong as the only thing that allowed that to be the case was that Blood Rush would Multiply the value given by it. on its own, meme Strike as Flat Value of +90 was hardly useful for Damage vs the various Multipliers offered by Stances.

 

8 minutes ago, Xaero said:

What's so exciting about floor polishing?
At least rushing through the level doing normal combos looks cool.

and on the plus side, now all of your Melee Weapons and Melee Animations are exactly just that! flailing random AoE's everywhere. :)

"that'll teach those Players for beyblading, we'll just make everything beyblade!"

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 55 minutes, Arreka a dit :

Given the low damage of current melee weapons, there seems to be insufficient return on that risk.

This isn't true for some melee weapons. For example, nikama prime (and dragon nikana), orthos prime, some zaws and maybe reaper prime and hate (not tested myself) are very good weapons and more effective than guns on high level mobs. 

There may be more but there are less melee weapons better than guns than before since overpowered mods could make nearly any melee weapon better than guns. I think DE should buff all those underpowered weapons so we can have more choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Xaero said:

What's so exciting about floor polishing?

At least rushing through the level doing normal combos looks cool.

They could've just fixed the interaction between Maiming Strike and Blood Rush and fix the fact that MS is so boring. There was no need to remove the only additive crit-chance mod that melees have.

Like... Instead of being "+90% CC on slide attacks", they could've instead made it "+90% CC on slide attacks, slams, air attacks, heavy attacks, and wall attacks" instead. As in, an additive bonus that works on every melee attack except for basic combos.

 

Now that MS is no longer additive, and Condition Overload has been absolutely crushed by the nerf hammer (i.e. pure-status builds are no longer viable), we have this super fun situation where any melee weapon with low base CC cannot be used for anything except pure-status builds, and are therefore not viable.

Great for build variety! /s

Edited by SortaRandom
  • Applause 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maiming Strike needs to come back. Nerfed ranges need to come back. Keep all Melee 3.0 buffs of weak weapons. Problem solved. There is nothing wrong with the synergy between BR/CO/MS and few other mods as before. Don't get convinced by players who prefer mediocrity to believe that we deserve this non-stop nerfs destroying the game.

SLOW and CLUNKY is not warframe. It's something other game. FAST and EFFICIENT gameplay is Warframe. 

Edited by George_PPS
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

Nerfed ranges need to come back.

To return to the era where whips, pole arms, staff, and heavy swords the only viable melee weapons? No thank you.

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

There is nothing wrong with the synergy between BR/CO/MS and few other mods as before

It is wrong.. 

You must realize that DE is now addressing the power creep problem in the game. Post nerf CO is still viable, you just have to adjust your builds for it. Currently I am using Condition Overload as a replacement for primed pressure point because of the additive math.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

To return to the era where whips, pole arms, staff, and heavy swords the only viable melee weapons? No thank you.

It is wrong.. 

You must realize that DE is now addressing the power creep problem in the game. Post nerf CO is still viable, you just have to adjust your builds for it. Currently I am using Condition Overload as a replacement for primed pressure point because of the additive math.

Power creep is a great thing. Meta weapons are the most fun to use. Players eventually work their way up to have gears that are in power creep territory. It is a problem to reset players' efforts and progress. If you don't like meta weapons, just ask DE to buff others to the same status. If enemies are too weak, ask DE to make enemies harder. It is very simple. Don't take away what players love to use and enjoy. 

Now, you go help Demonkey to talk me and others down here:

 

Edited by George_PPS
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Don't take way what players love to use and enjoy. 

Buffs can’t solve everything Period. I don’t want to see the game is all about press 4 to win and anything dies in one shot.

I read your post regarding “Level 500 enemies”. @DeMonkey is right, it will make the power gap between new players and veterans too high it will scare new players away. Not to mention on that level weapon choices very tight unless DE rework enemy level scaling.

Regarding Condition Overload, the post I shared makes those level 500 enemies a joke because of how broken the math is (1.6 billion damage to level 2000).

 

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Xaero said:

What's so exciting about floor polishing?

At least rushing through the level doing normal combos looks cool.

As I said, I've done a lot of experiments to recover my deal.
It included 4 good stances of 4 good weapons.

Do you like normal combos?
So do I.
I wouldn't have written this post if only 1/10 of my previous deal came out of it.
Because 1/10 is enough to me.

Edited by Arreka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

To return to the era where whips, pole arms, staff, and heavy swords the only viable melee weapons? No thank you.

It is wrong.. 

You must realize that DE is now addressing the power creep problem in the game. Post nerf CO is still viable, you just have to adjust your builds for it. Currently I am using Condition Overload as a replacement for primed pressure point because of the additive math.

5 rank rare mod (CO) completely outclasses 10 rank legendary mod. (primed pressure point) 

Same deal with blood rush uncommon mod completely outclasses a legendary mod (sacrificial steel)

DE: "We don't want mandatory mods and we like build variety" So the next thing they do is replace mandatory pressure point for mandatory CO, make other crit mods redundant with BR, and forcing everyone into hybrid builds.

Edited by Dragazer
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...