Kuva weapons and getting to level 40

[Lazarow]

13 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

The 50k Kuva is about 4 hours of Kuva Survival, I get around an hour to play most days, so that probably ends up the same actual real time for me (but if I play nothing but Kuva Survival all week I'll get really bored).

Not 50k kuva, you would only need 20k or 30k to reach rank 40. Those 3 are seperate option and not steps. I will edit the post and make it more clear

[nonscience]

I don't see the problem here.

There's no weapon I enjoy playing that I haven't put less than 4-7 formas on. These will require less than usual with the upgrade of levels available. BUT if it's for the MR, then it's purely a player's vanity point of view. We'll reach MR 30 with or without them, getting there three months ahead of everyone else is a people's problem.

Edited November 5, 2019 by nonscience
Spelling

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

22 hours ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

F2Players are what makes the comunity and the game alive.

I agree entirely: F2P are who makes this community. However, if everyone was F2P DE would go bust pretty quickly.

22 hours ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

I'm alredy a MR26, I alredy have every single Frame, what I gonna buy?

Yeah, I'm MR27 and same boat - however, I think DE's answer is requiem packs and forma.

22 hours ago, G.L.O.R.ious said:

just to spend days farming the Kuva Lich and after that to waste 5 forma in weapons that aren't even good

Don't spend the forma on them then. Getting all the Kuva weapons is gonna be a major task.

I mean, let's compare to Kubrows. 6 breeds took me ages to get that last one - I mashed about 20 of them before finally giving up and buying imprints of the breed I was missing.

Dupes mean it's going to take hundreds of Kuva Lich kills to get them all, and each kill is going to use up Requiem mods you need to replenish. That's going to take all but the most dedicated more time than it takes to build 65 forma. 

Just every day: crack a forma from a relic, do the Kuva flood and siphons for 2ish relics, crack them for 2 requiem mods every 3 days or so (burning between 1 and 3 of them for each lich).

20 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Remember, Paracesis has this function too. But at least that weapon had a reason to put 5 Forma in it, namely the innate bonus against Sentients per rank. I feel like these Kuva weapons should have a bonus similarly

They do, you can stack them full of Prime mods, add a Riven, and add an Exilius. That's huge. The average riven+prime mods build is already 5-6 forma before trying to fix an Exilius, and has no flexibility at all (I mean, if you want to add Cold that means a D that's only always going to be Cold).

19 hours ago, vomder said:

Don't forget the RNG stats of these weapons too, which is another way this increase in grind is bad too

Don't worry, you're going to end up with stacks of some of them 🙂

[G.L.O.R.ious]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

They do, you can stack them full of Prime mods, add a Riven, and add an Exilius. That's huge.

Actually, no. The "mandatory" mods for primarie weapons are Serration, Split Chamber, Vital Sense, Point Strike and Hunter Munitions. There isn't a lot of good Primed mods for them, DE may change that in the future but for now 4 Forma can make almost any weapon.

Secondarie weapons have two good Primed Mods: Target Craker and Pistol Gambit.

The categorie that have the best Primed Mods and the most cost hevy "normal" mods are the melee, but they alredy start at 70(with aura mods) and they don't need the BS farming from the Kuva Lich. That's what make the Melee the best weapons in the game.

What I trying to say is that in the moment, 80 capacity by itself on primerie and secondarie weapons are completly useless. DE needs to add more Primed Mods that are worth using or give the weapons bonus atribute to justify the waste.

[Hawk197]

2 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

 

They do, you can stack them full of Prime mods, add a Riven, and add an Exilius. That's huge. The average riven+prime mods build is already 5-6 forma before trying to fix an Exilius, and has no flexibility at all (I mean, if you want to add Cold that means a D that's only always going to be Cold).🙂

That's NOT a bonus. Most weapons have innate polarities, which saves us Forma. For example, the Pyrana Prime comes with 2 V slots, which means I only need 3 Forma to fit on my Amalgam, both crit primes, hornet strike, a riven, with 24 capacity left over. That's THREE Forma, not FIVE. If I want to add on an Exilus, I could just use a FOURTH to get the capacity needed. That's still an entire Forma cheaper. The Chakkhurr I have is only 2 Forma and I already have enough capacity to fit on basically everything I need for it. Maybe I use a third to add on Zoom or some garbage to fill the Exilus slot. Most of us have hundreds of Forma saved up, and players like Rahetalis use up dozens, if not hundreds, or even thousands now, of Forma on their stuff. Rank 40 weapons go up to 80 capacity with a potato installed. Not everyone is going to use a riven, or prime mods. I have this stuff, so I use them. Nothing to use my endgame gear against granted, but I still use them. But joe blow might not want to mortgage his car to buy a Tonkor riven. Or maybe he doesn't like the Tonkor. Do you honestly expect him to waste Forma for the sake of wasting it? Rahetalis loves to waste Forma, but joe blow might not.

 

Now look at the Paracisis. At rank 40, it has a special passive that deals with Sentient enemies. There's a REASON to get it to rank 40 beyond mastery fodder. Kuva weapons have NO REASON. Once you put 3, maybe 4 Forma into one of the weapons, you don't need anymore, unless you need to burn a Forma getting rid of a crap exilus polarity (Seriously DE, why not make them blank? Warframe Exilus slots are blank). My Tonkor was exactly like that. I had to burn my fifth Forma to correct the Exilus slot. Had it been blank, I could've saved it for another weapon.

[Titan_Bear]

Having read pretty much all comments here I do see both sides. Some will be okay with this because of the fact that they like the weapons and have fun playing with them. For me most of the weapons I use for MR ... so to me this hurts. 
Using forma 5 times for one weapon when there is 13 of them just feels like a cheap tactic to prolong gameplay of an update. The time to actually get the kuva weapon is long but then to have to level the weapon 5 times just to get max MR from it, its just cheap. For me this entire update was about Kuva and honestly I dont see why Kuva couldnt have been implemented here as an upgrade system that is unique to the Kuva weapons ... since they are Kuva. (Others have said this idea already) 
Again yes some people will like this I know, I just think that when many more are now playing Kuva missions, they could have easily added this mechanic rather than trying to extend an updates longevity by adding monotonous mechanic that really was unique to the Paracesis and I feel that at least with the Paracesis you get the stat bonus (sentient damage) and thats what made the 5 forma system unique and okay. 
If this is a common occurrence for future weapons and updates (which I can assume will be the same whenever the Corpus get their Lich System) then it just ruins the fun of getting Mastery Rank and for me getting all the weapons in the game complete is something I enjoy about the game
Just my 2cents 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Titan_Bear

[Stormwind81]

So the soft cap is level 30 and after that you have to put 5 forma in them to get them to level 40. Means one forma gives 2 levels.

This is a very very greedy approach to take money or time from us. Classic chinese compan...oh sorry I meant classic DE.

Anyway, I hope I see them changing that bs in some weeks. Now maybe it's just there to prevent people in hardcore leveling everything in one week.

Anyone tested a kuva weapon in level 40!? What kind of balance is that anyway. They must outperform any other weapon by a lot. Or do they just trick you by making the stats only 100% when you reach level 40 and internaly it's just a blatant number......

[BIG.RED]

I have no issue with much of this, i got nothin but time, and when i use a few Formas, a week later and i look at my stockpile, ive filled it up again so for me theres a constant flow of Forma. The only thing i detest however, that has plagued me forever. Is that i am sick of running a 100 times for #*!%ol reward. Its like im cursesd to be rewarded with cheap S#&$. with Sortie its always Anasa, Forma, Endo, Kuva or Potatoes. For weeks on end. When and IF i get a riv, its usually for something S#&$ i dont need or want, and alot of the times its duplicates. Im sick of it. Ive invested alot of time and money into this game, all id like is a god damn break and something for my efforts. 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2019-11-05 at 11:55 PM, Hawk197 said:

Most weapons have innate polarities, which saves us Forma

This isn't true. Most Primes do, part of the perks of it being a Prime, but the vast majority of weapons either don't have any innate polarities, or have one but also require a forma to build.

If you used a forma to build the weapon that innate polarity isn't free. Unless it's a V it's probably not the polarity you want anyway - I have several where I needed an extra forma to undo an innate D I can't use (it's either plain Cold or a pathetic status boost).

On 2019-11-05 at 11:55 PM, Hawk197 said:

For example, the Pyrana Prime comes with 2 V slots, which means I only need 3 Forma to fit on my Amalgam, both crit primes, hornet strike, a riven, with 24 capacity left over

Yeah, but that's the Pyrana Prime - there's lots of reasons that it's good and has a really low Riven disposition. Excellent innate polarities is one of them.

On 2019-11-05 at 9:57 PM, G.L.O.R.ious said:

The categorie that have the best Primed Mods and the most cost hevy "normal" mods are the melee, but they alredy start at 70(with aura mods)

Guns don't have aura slots.

You have 60 divided between 9 slots - that's 6 available per slot, or 7 without an Exilius.

With forma you get a riven from 18 to 9, primed mods from 14 to 7, expensive mods (like Split Chamber) from 15 to 8. 

Let's look at your mandatory build:

On 2019-11-05 at 9:57 PM, G.L.O.R.ious said:

The "mandatory" mods for primarie weapons are Serration, Split Chamber, Vital Sense, Point Strike and Hunter Munition

Ok, so with 5 forma that's 7+8+5+5+5=30, leaving you 30 for your last 4 slots, or 7 each.

If I want 90% status mods I'll need to forma again, if I want Argon Scope I'll need to either put a 5 mod on or forma again.

For pistols I have 2 primes in the 'mandatory' build, leaving me just 26 for the last 3 optionals and the exilus.

I have loads of weapons with 6 forma on them, and If I want to exilus them I'm going to need a 7th.

[Madway7]

Imo each forma should give them 1 or 2% crit and status chance applied as a bonus

As a bonus they do not work as the new stats, similar to bonus stats for warframes they would not be affected by mods.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Madway7

[Hawk197]

14 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

This isn't true. Most Primes do, part of the perks of it being a Prime, but the vast majority of weapons either don't have any innate polarities, or have one but also require a forma to build.

If you used a forma to build the weapon that innate polarity isn't free. Unless it's a V it's probably not the polarity you want anyway - I have several where I needed an extra forma to undo an innate D I can't use (it's either plain Cold or a pathetic status boost).

Yeah, but that's the Pyrana Prime - there's lots of reasons that it's good and has a really low Riven disposition. Excellent innate polarities is one of them.

Acceltra has a Dash. Burston has a V. Nagantaka has a V. Three quick examples I know that don't require a Forma to build or are variations. If I really wanted to find more, I'm sure I could, I just chose these at random from the Wiki. And even if we go with the whole "It costs a Forma" angle with Dojo weapons, the Arca Plasmor, another weapon I picked at random, has 2 Vs, not 1 V, thus making the Forma basically free. If we want to compare weapon to weapon, Kuva Kohm has no polarities, while the normal one has a D. Both Karaks have a V. Boltor has a D, Prime has a V and D.

And I already addressed the fact we might have to change polarities. But the point still remains the same. Maybe I can't build Corrosive, but I can go Viral until I can get rid of the D.

[(PSN)Khepriem]

On 2019-11-04 at 4:37 PM, G.L.O.R.ious said:

Each Forma takes 24 hours to build, assuming that you won't waste a second, 5 Forma take 5 days, each Kuva weapon takes 5 it, did you see the problem? It's seems easier to use Forma, but it's a ilusion.

I use at least 4 Forma in each weapon to test it but I only can do it with Platinum, because is the only way to surpass the 24 hours time gate.

Requiring 5 forma is not healthy for the F2Player and putting players away from the game by predatorie monetisation is everthing that Warframe dosen't need.

I'm seeing a lot of this echoed throughout this thread. Are you guys not aware of Plague Star or the ever present music puzzle room? Plague Star, though only coming a couple times a year, can net you a fully crafted forma in under 15 minutes and the event lasts two weeks. That adds up fast! The only negative about it is that you'll have to wait a while, but the only people who will care about a measly 1k mr are ultra veterans who should be swimming in forma by now.

I don't like that I have to spend 5 forma and more importantly the time investment that it takes to get the weapon to lvl30 six times with every single kuva weapon just so I can keep up with fully ranking every weapon because Jesus is that annoying! But I don't see it as predatory. I see it as DE trying to give hardcore vets something to do for as long as possible. I think it's a TERRIBLE way of going about it, but their intentions were pure. 

[Mauverine]

I'd be okay with gear requiring one forma (or more fittingly, kuva) for an additional ten mastery ranks, would seem legit. Five? For all of these weapons? Hell no. I disliked that immensely when Paracesis had it, and I have zero reasons to reevaluate that. The grind for the liches is boring and annoying enough as is. Warframe's my favourite game, I'd like to not be burnt out by the grind.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

12 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Acceltra has a Dash. Burston has a V. Nagantaka has a V. Three quick examples I know that don't require a Forma to build or are variations. If I really wanted to find more, I'm sure I could

Sure, I could too. Nobody is refuting "some", but you said "most". The majority (not all, not even close) have no innate polarity or require forma to build.

Yeah, some have multiple innate polarities, and some take other rare resources to build (like the Acceltra needing Hexanon).

12 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Kuva Kohm has no polarities, while the normal one has a D

The Kohm is an amazing MR5 weapon, the Kuva Kohm is MR13 - they're aimed at different levels of players.

Yeah, you need a ton of forma for these new, extremely hard to get, strongest weapons in the game. However, it's comparable to the amount of forma you've put on any endgame-ish weapon. My Arca Plasmor has 3 and will need a 4th to use the Exilus, one more for a Kuva Kohm is fine at this level.

I think where it's painful is the less useful weapons like Kuva Karak. There it is grind, but no more than, say, grinding all 4 K-drives or every type of Kubrow was.

It's Warframe, it's grindy.

12 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

And I already addressed the fact we might have to change polarities. But the point still remains the same. Maybe I can't build Corrosive, but I can go Viral until I can get rid of the D.

Yeah, on a casual weapon any additional damage is good. It'll mash star chart content for you just fine.

Personally though I can't leave that - Viral at the top of my procs is useless when I need lots of Slash, fewer (but still lots) of Corrosive and 1 Viral every 5 seconds or so.

Outside of some anti-Eidolon weapons I think a D is always a polarity I have to undo.

I think these weapons are aimed at late-game players: MR20+, looking at 120+ enemies. Anything that's a challenge for them is going to be painful grind for newer players, but that's fine.

5 forma? Meh, not great but about par at this level. I don't think they should make that easier for newer players, there's little enough left for me to do as it is.

[Hawk197]

8 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

Sure, I could too. Nobody is refuting "some", but you said "most". The majority (not all, not even close) have no innate polarity or require forma to build.

Yeah, some have multiple innate polarities, and some take other rare resources to build (like the Acceltra needing Hexanon).

The Kohm is an amazing MR5 weapon, the Kuva Kohm is MR13 - they're aimed at different levels of players.

Yeah, you need a ton of forma for these new, extremely hard to get, strongest weapons in the game. However, it's comparable to the amount of forma you've put on any endgame-ish weapon. My Arca Plasmor has 3 and will need a 4th to use the Exilus, one more for a Kuva Kohm is fine at this level.

I think where it's painful is the less useful weapons like Kuva Karak. There it is grind, but no more than, say, grinding all 4 K-drives or every type of Kubrow was.

It's Warframe, it's grindy.

Yeah, on a casual weapon any additional damage is good. It'll mash star chart content for you just fine.

Personally though I can't leave that - Viral at the top of my procs is useless when I need lots of Slash, fewer (but still lots) of Corrosive and 1 Viral every 5 seconds or so.

Outside of some anti-Eidolon weapons I think a D is always a polarity I have to undo.

I think these weapons are aimed at late-game players: MR20+, looking at 120+ enemies. Anything that's a challenge for them is going to be painful grind for newer players, but that's fine.

5 forma? Meh, not great but about par at this level. I don't think they should make that easier for newer players, there's little enough left for me to do as it is.

1: I said most because most do when you account for the MR10+ weapons, or even some of the Dojo weapons. Yes, there are weapons that don't have an innate polarity, but these weapons aren't meant for vets. Like you said, there are some weapons aimed at the MR20+ who do Lv 120s. The Soma Prime, which DE has gone on record to state on livestream, was meant to be a weapon that anyone can use. It's not great, but it's not garbage. But weapons like Opticor or Arca Plasmor are weapons that are powerful and have specific uses. Are they used for everything? Yeah, because the uses these weapons are meant to fulfill aren't being implemented in meaningful ways. You could use the Opticor to kill Eidolons, but it works just as well killing Alad V for the Nonillionth time. You could use the Arca Plasmor to deal with Arbitration drones hiding behind a bunch of invul enemies, but it also works for speed running a basic mission.

2: Before we got Weapon Exilus, would you have needed the 4th? And outside of a mutation or projectile speed Exilus, what is there to use? It's nice to have the option to slap these normally useless mods onto our weapons, but in most cases they aren't needed. Arca Plasmor and Catchmoon need the speed one, great. What about the Tonkor? Opticor? Boltor? Euphona Prime? Before this update, the ONLY weapons I used a mutation or speed mod for was the Sonicor. I either used Carrier for ammo case, or I used all 3 of my weapons in mission.

3: The weapons aren't hard to get. Day 1 I burned through around 7 Liches trying to get a Tonkor. These weapons are RNG drops, nothing more or less. There's no challenge there. If I really wanted to, I could grind out every single Kuva weapon before this week ends. I don't feel like bashing my head against the wall for that long though. I've gotten burned out on this game so many times, I can guarantee that would do it.

4: Yes, Warframe needs a name change to Grindframe. But when you look at other games, like World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 14, Destiny 2, Archeage, and various other MMOs, they make the grind WORTH something. They give us raids, which aren't limited to once a day, and the rewards from those raids are actually good. Warframe gives us a giant meat shield that drops Arcanes that helps us kill more enemies we're already too powerful for. These Arcanes don't help us with raids, because we don't have those anymore. And even if they did help us with raids, they would only be once a day things. They don't help us with sorties, because they don't have any special enemies or require special tactics. And even if they did help us with sorties, they are only once a day things.

5: I'm MR27, with nothing to do. I could easily take an unranked, unmodified frame and weapon through the star chart solo and crush it on the large majority of things. Only "issues" would be the bosses with more invul phases I care to deal with. But my original point still stands regardless. Viral+Slash kills things, and quickly. Soma Prime with Hunter Munition and Viral. Plenty of killing power right there.

[Miss_Ekigna]

5 Forma for 1 weapon isn't that bad, especially when you look at the advantages Kuva weapons have.
I don't cry about formas, they are pretty easy to get, and to keep crafting, or farming with Relics.
I'll gladly max all Kuva weapons.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

You could use the Opticor to kill Eidolons

You really can't - it's bugged and does a fraction of the damage it should.

2 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Before we got Weapon Exilus, would you have needed the 4th

Yeah, I have a surprising number of weapons with 6+ forma. I'm on X1, we don't even have the Gauss buffs yet.

Those weapons aren't going to be able to even use the exilus - 2 more forma is only going to free up about 6-8 points, but will lock down the build completely.

3 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

It's nice to have the option to slap these normally useless mods onto our weapons

They aren't useless, they just don't compete against more damage. I have a lot of (like more than 10) weapons with 6 or more forma that will benefit from clip, ammo pool, ammo mutation or projectile speed. 

Everything would benefit from reload speed, as DE still think Dark Sector's cover shooter reloads are a practical thing.

I think the Kuva Drakgoon even has a dedicated mod that works in the exilus slot.

3 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

But when you look at other games, like World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 14, Destiny 2, Archeage, and various other MMOs, they make the grind WORTH something

Not so sure.

I'm MR27, X1 is months behind and I'm holding pattern, so I recently went back to Destiny 2. It is hugely improved by Activision-Blizzard being kicked out, but the grind still isn't worth anything. You still dismantle 99% of everything that drops, play missions over and over for the tiny chance of a dice-roll exotic and there's still a spawn cave people shoot at all day to get drops. Meanwhile modding is a few toggle switches and grinding for imperceptible upgrades.

Looter games are hard to get right, never mind perfect.

I don't think anyone's doing it miles better. DE could definitely learn from Destiny's new light starting point and precision damage (bows and hand cannons are top tier thanks to satisfying high damage headshots). 

On the whole I think Warframe is still way better.

3 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Viral+Slash kills things, and quickly. Soma Prime with Hunter Munition and Viral

Not under dispute. But more Viral isn't always good. For max damage (and getting as far into Arbitrations, Endless and the like as you can) you want 1 viral proc every few seconds, and all the other procs to be Slash. 10 slash and 1 viral does a lot more damage than 10 viral and 1 slash.

Personally, when I get an innate D polarity I find I have to reforma it.

5 forma seems reasonable, if grindy, for high end weapons. To me. IMHO.

3 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Day 1 I burned through around 7 Liches trying to get a Tonkor. These weapons are RNG drops, nothing more or less. There's no challenge there. If I really wanted to, I could grind out every single Kuva weapon before this week ends

Dude you get wayy more time to play each day than I do. I play 1-2 hours most days. Yeah, if you want all the Kuva weapons maxed in a week you're going to struggle with forma.

That first player to reach (already reached) MR28 will have spend a fair bit of plat on forma.

Again, personally, it will take me a few months, and so will the forma.

3 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Yes, Warframe needs a name change to Grindframe.

DE had a choice: Liches are intended to be endgame, they either needed to be actually hard (as in real difficulty, where you lose progress and try again for something that takes hours) or serious grind (as in RNG around time-gates around RNG). They went with the latter.

[Hawk197]

1 hour ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

You really can't - it's bugged and does a fraction of the damage it should.

Yeah, I have a surprising number of weapons with 6+ forma. I'm on X1, we don't even have the Gauss buffs yet.

Those weapons aren't going to be able to even use the exilus - 2 more forma is only going to free up about 6-8 points, but will lock down the build completely.

They aren't useless, they just don't compete against more damage. I have a lot of (like more than 10) weapons with 6 or more forma that will benefit from clip, ammo pool, ammo mutation or projectile speed. 

Everything would benefit from reload speed, as DE still think Dark Sector's cover shooter reloads are a practical thing.

I think the Kuva Drakgoon even has a dedicated mod that works in the exilus slot.

Not so sure.

I'm MR27, X1 is months behind and I'm holding pattern, so I recently went back to Destiny 2. It is hugely improved by Activision-Blizzard being kicked out, but the grind still isn't worth anything. You still dismantle 99% of everything that drops, play missions over and over for the tiny chance of a dice-roll exotic and there's still a spawn cave people shoot at all day to get drops. Meanwhile modding is a few toggle switches and grinding for imperceptible upgrades.

Looter games are hard to get right, never mind perfect.

I don't think anyone's doing it miles better. DE could definitely learn from Destiny's new light starting point and precision damage (bows and hand cannons are top tier thanks to satisfying high damage headshots). 

On the whole I think Warframe is still way better.

Not under dispute. But more Viral isn't always good. For max damage (and getting as far into Arbitrations, Endless and the like as you can) you want 1 viral proc every few seconds, and all the other procs to be Slash. 10 slash and 1 viral does a lot more damage than 10 viral and 1 slash.

Personally, when I get an innate D polarity I find I have to reforma it.

5 forma seems reasonable, if grindy, for high end weapons. To me. IMHO.

Dude you get wayy more time to play each day than I do. I play 1-2 hours most days. Yeah, if you want all the Kuva weapons maxed in a week you're going to struggle with forma.

That first player to reach (already reached) MR28 will have spend a fair bit of plat on forma.

Again, personally, it will take me a few months, and so will the forma.

DE had a choice: Liches are intended to be endgame, they either needed to be actually hard (as in real difficulty, where you lose progress and try again for something that takes hours) or serious grind (as in RNG around time-gates around RNG). They went with the latter.

Yeah, there are lots of bugs in this game. Last I checked, projectile weapons weren't dealing damage for some reason, and none of Ivaras powers were working. One would think after 2 years and some amount of months, an update like the Kingpin system would've been polished before release.

To each their own on these Exilus I guess. I never found use in them. Would rather spend less ammo killing something than the ability to refresh my reserves after emptying an entire mag into a sponge. Or use Ivara instead of Hush. Or use Sonicor for specific situations than everything under the sun.

Yeah, I too dismantle basically everything. If it's not Rampage, High-Impact Reserves, specific barrels and mags, it's being trashed for the shards. But there are still worthwhile grinds. Some weapons are under Y1 and can't be modded, while another weapon of similar RPM can be since it's Y2 or Y3. Stuff like that. And of course there are the Exotics. But I bring those games up because they give you power so you can take on more powerful things.

 

Anyways, speaking of D2, I kind of wish the Lich system copied the Menagerie system. Slot 1 will determine if you get a Primary, Secondary, Melee, or Archgun. Slot 2 will determine the type of gun, like Shotgun, Launcher, Pistol, etc. Slot 3 will determine the damage bonuses, like Radiation, Impact, Heat, etc. It would remove alot of grinding for sure. Sure, you may still get duplicates of the Karak, but at least you can keep farming for the weapons in the Primary category without worrying about getting a Brakk or whatever.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

12 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

. Would rather spend less ammo killing something than the ability to refresh my reserves after emptying an entire mag into a sponge

There are a lot of weapons where these make actual differences, like the Ocucor's CC tendrils that only last until next reload (I have a mag size riven and reload on holster mods that make it an amazing proc spreader) or weapons like the Angstrum that have a volley fire directly related to mag size 

Then you have weapons like the Kohm that can devastate, but will be completely out of ammo after 5 mins without ammo mutation.

Then there is the huge pile of weapons that would be amazing if they just had less recoil, but do that in the main build and they lose out on too much damage (for instance the Aklex)

More damage nearly always trumps utility, but utility as an extra? That will be amazing for some weapons.

12 hours ago, Hawk197 said:

Anyways, speaking of D2, I kind of wish the Lich system copied the Menagerie system. Slot 1 will determine if you get a Primary, Secondary, Melee, or Archgun. Slot 2 will determine the type of gun, like Shotgun, Launcher, Pistol, etc. Slot 3 will determine the damage bonuses, like Radiation, Impact, Heat, etc. It would remove alot of grinding for sure. Sure, you may still get duplicates of the Karak, but at least you can keep farming for the weapons in the Primary category without worrying about getting a Brakk or whatever.

Yeah, something that filters the drop tables would be grand.

However, I think there's some issues with complexity - D2 has a really trivial damage model (physical + 3 elements, with no mixing) and really basic mods. Even with that the paths to get weapons (especially exotics and their catalysts) are needlessly obtuse (compared to Warframe's get BP and grid for materials mechanic).

I'm not sure DE it would be good to make lich variations any more complex than it already is, but maybe they could just extend the existing frame progenitors - so take Saryn get a toxic primary, take Khora get a toxic melee, etc.

[Myscho]

Im still hoping they do something with this nonsense

[ShadowNekrosys]

This idea of using 5 forma to get only mastery rank is insane. I'm mr27 right now, I like farming mr, but not at this price. I could accept it for a single particular weapon like paracesis. But all the kuva weapon? That's a non sense. I hope DE really reconsidered this because asking for 65 forma only to gain mr is unfair towards us.

Edited November 9, 2019 by ShadowNekrosys

[JDxBarracka]

Actually it reduces the amount of Forma you want to use on the weapon. 

What would usually take 4 to 5 forma to reach optimum level takes 2 to 3 because you get extra Mod points.

If you have an OCD to reach 40 lvl, that's a  'you' problem

[ShadowNekrosys]

4 hours ago, JDxBarracka said:

Actually it reduces the amount of Forma you want to use on the weapon. 

What would usually take 4 to 5 forma to reach optimum level takes 2 to 3 because you get extra Mod points.

If you have an OCD to reach 40 lvl, that's a  'you' problem

He just like to reach max mr. What's wrong about it? I like it too. But having to waste 65 forma to do it.. it sound unfair to me. And surely I'm not the only one. Is this how DE wants us to invest our time in their game? Putting 5 forma in weapons we may not even like? I find it ridiculous.

[Gangleri]

Do like me, delete this game, this last update is really the worst of all... u_u

[Cpt_Capitalism]

I haven't actually hunted a Kuva Lich yet, so I'm not too sure about all the mechanics and I don't know about what their max level is, but what if every time you die to them the weapon you got was able to pick up an additional mastery rank up to a cap of 40? Sure it means you'd have to intentionally burn some Parazon mod capacity, but the actual challenge of the Lich would be higher and you'd have incentive to let them get to higher levels before killing them.