Dagger/Covert Lethality Stealth No Longer Viable?

[(NSW)JigsJosh]

Being a Switch player I haven't been able to test it yet (we haven't gotten the newest melee update yet), but after looking at the updates on the wiki it seems like daggers are no longer a viable option for stealth because Covert Lethality has been changed. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

I'm also not entirely sure where the +100% finisher damage fits into the equation. Is it added on top of the +700% stealth damage bonus to make 800? Does it multiply after the weapon and stealth multipliers to double the damage? Although either way it still seems to pale in comparison to the x24 damage from hammers and rapiers.

Also, what use is the +16 initial combo on Covert Lethality? Because the combo damage multiplier only works on heavy attacks now, it seems this part of the mod is useless for stealth (regardless of the fact that you need a 20 combo to even reach the first tier bonus).

If someone could clarify these things for me that would be greatly appreciated. From what it seems I feel like this melee update is going to ruin my Balla/Covert Lethality build. ☹️

[OvisCaedo]

The game never listes this info, and I don't know if DE has ever even acknowledged it, but every melee weapon class actually has a different damage multiplier for stealth finishers or front finishers. I don't think DE made ANY mention of whether or not this changed, much like how I don't believe they made any mention of what was happening to all of the various complicated damage multipliers stances have that people had to manually test out for years for wiki information.

Anyhow. At least by the old multipliers, if they have not changed, daggers had the absolute worst backstab damage multiplier of any weapon type in the game at 3.2x, with "normal" weapons being around 8x. Even if you double that finisher damage with a mod, daggers have significantly lower of a damage multiplier than most weapon types, AND low base damage for the singular hit that it's multiplying off of. It's pretty ridiculous and was mostly just patched over or not noticed because of Covert Lethality being absurd.

So yes, with the new covert lethality, unless DE did a hidden change to the weapon class that they didn't mention, daggers are one of the absolute worst weapon classes in the game for backstabs, even WITH covert lethality.

Edited November 4, 2019 by OvisCaedo

[Skaleek]

Covert lethality got butchered. I made a thread, doesnt seem like a majority of the players are too concerned about it at the moment (bigger fish to fry i guess).

 

[k05h]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Skaleek:

Covert lethality got butchered.

Is that a pun 😉

[Skaleek]

Just now, k05h said:

Is that a pun 😉

I'm.... not sure. Let's say yes so i look clever?

[Moscatinka]

A quick & dirty comparison, the first 2 minutes is using Covert Lethality, the last 2 minutes is using a +90 elemental mod instead:

 

 

The build is Balla-Korb-Vargeet II Ruhang, it's a zaw I made specifically for stealth takedowns, hence max damage/crit, min speed. The complete mod setup can be seen around the 2:10 mark. Covert Lethality wins out but not by an awful lot. With this build I could take out Sortie level mobs but the days of slicing the throat of lvl 200+ heavy armored mobs seem past.

It is actually surprising how close the damage seem to be to other melee choices now. I tried several other weapons after this like a polearm zaw, Gram Prime, and they all did a rather equal amount of damage on Stealth takedowns. Only the hammer (I tried the Wolf Sledge) did significantly more stealth takedown damage, as they always have I suppose.

But yeah in the end it's a huge nerf, and I would like to see daggers have a boost to stealth damage, after all it is the classical assassin tool and going around all 'stealthy' swinging a 2 meter long hammer feels a bit silly.

 

[taiiat]

yes, Covert Lethality is just +100% Finisher Damage now.
previously, Finisher Bonuses (whether Mod or Ability) were a Final Multiplier to Damage. i haven't done any testing myself whether this has changed.

 

 

as aforementioned, Weapons Classes have differing Finisher Multipliers. previously known values are as follows. testing whether Multipliers have changed will take some time.

Stealth:

Spoiler

3.2x for Daggers.
6.0x for Dual Daggers, Polearms, Sparring, and Staves.
6.2x for Warfans.
8.0x for all other weapon types.
16.0x for Scythes.
24.0x for Hammers and Rapiers.

Damage may be dealt over multiple hits, this is the combined damage of the finisher.

Combat (front Finisher):

Spoiler

2.0x for Heavy Blades.
4.0x for Gunblades.
6.0x for Dual Daggers, Polearms, Sparring, and Staves.
6.2x for Daggers and Warfans.
8.0x for all other weapon types.
12.0x for Hammers.
16.0x for Machete and Nikanas.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Covert lethality got butchered. I made a thread, doesnt seem like a majority of the players are too concerned about it at the moment (bigger fish to fry i guess).

 

Mate they never care about nerfing things that stop us killing enemies infinitely. Because they never do that kind of content themselves.

[(NSW)JigsJosh]

11 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

So yes, with the new covert lethality, unless DE did a hidden change to the weapon class that they didn't mention, daggers are one of the absolute worst weapon classes in the game for backstabs, even WITH covert lethality.

This is what I was afraid of. Sadly Covert Lethality was the only edge daggers had against using other weapon types. They certainly don't compare DPS wise to the go-tos like Gram Prime, so usage statistics of daggers is probably gonna take a nose dive. This is ironic considering DE buffs and nerfs weapons based on usage statistics.

Although again I haven't tried anything with the new update so maybe daggers have a different edge like getting off heavy attacks faster or whatever.

[hyzmarca]

A properly built zaw dagger with a riven is actually really good.   Especially with +attack speed.  While my zaw dagger doesn't have the damage per attack of a heavy weapon like Gram Prime,   it can easily keep up in terms of DPS,  due to superior attack speed. 

[(PSN)dmljr]

DE please fix this.

Add back lethal damage to stealth kill only. 

Daggers should be the best stealth kill weapons and they were with this mod. How can you justify having Hammers be the best stealth kill weapon.

Mod is almost useless now. 100% is not enough, too make up having the lowest stealth kill multiplier and initial combo counter does this even serve much of a purpose if it’s not enough to hit even x2.

Now Dagger only niche is attack speed and with they are not that much faster than all other weapons to make up there poor attack strength..

[(PSN)Soul_o-O_Eater]

This mod is trash now and daggers have been left behind.

[Sunai_Moonswing]

Have to agree on this. My heat dagger, for which I rolled a riven a few too many times has gone from turbo assassin to crazy fast stabby, slashy mayhem. It's very different. And far from as efficient. 

Well, looks like Ash is going to be welding a rapier.