D.E. Need to stop pushing out half broken updates.

[Shinigami_Greed]

5 minutes ago, Learicorn said:

ok bootlicker

Do you feel better now?

[Eklectus]

24 minutes ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

-snip-

You know what all those games had in common, though? They were playable and finishable on purchase. Some were chosen because they had higher quality storytelling than Warframe, some for actually sticking to a theme and executing it extremely well.

And that's exactly the problem. Warframe has no theme. The dev-team has no quality to control other than the players they seem to have stopped listening to and, as such, they lose out in terms of said quality when compared to buy-and-play titles. One day they feel like adding open worlds, the next they're working on a bit more story, then they want to add space-lacrosse and then decide it'd be neat to add a system from some other game. It's ambitious, impressive, even. But the results are not something I'd ever call a standard of quality. More often than not, the system they add is unfinished, bugged or imbalanced and is simply left that way because there's a new idea they want to implement and the previous thing can just wait a couple years.

Now, this was relatively fine initially, because of DE's approach to PR. They were small, transparent and actually willing to listen to player feedback. That's not the DE we have right now. At this point, we've no idea of what's happening, when and why. We've been kept in the dark, occasionally thrown a promise that doesn't get fulfilled and, otherwise, just told that things are all going to plan. 

Among F2P titles, DE might be showing higher standards than other developers. But that's because most F2P models can be summarized as "make the player perform as many microtransactions as possible before they get bored" so, to be king, all you have to do is be even a little less scummy than your competition (and even then, they've been trying to add more and more skippable grind recently.) Compare their standards to those of a company with a "Pay Once, Play Forever" mentality, and DE is suddenly on the back-foot.

[Ephemiel]

19 hours ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

And I can also pretend like you're not a joke, but I'm not in the business of lying.

Great comeback that does absolutely nothing. You already proved you lie just to defend DE, so you can say anything you wish.

[40PE]

Guys,

Stop tearing each other on views and try to prove that you're right.

This isn't about us individuals, its about players and consumers.

Every, I repeat, every game AAA or not, coming out nowadays got full of bugs! Warframe isn't different either.

However, there is one HUGE difference between D.E.and other big companies: As far as I can see, no one else telling D.E. devs what to do, how to do it, when to do it! They can make up their mind, to release something, or not. They can create completely new ideas, out of the box, just think about Empyrean, Steve said in an interview, that Empyrean was the kind of the main idea of a long long trip to what warframe is right now, like 10+ years ago?!! Think about this no other developer cherishes such ideas and try to build it for 6 years and counting!

In the light of all the above, I think they could and should change how they look at the current development cycle, change it around a bit, make it better. That's all I'm saying, they need to deal with the releases just as thoughtfully as they think about Warframe-s future (not talking about next patch, but years and years of planning of the content).

So it doesn't matter who believes they are doing the best they could or they making the same "trash" like the rest of the Industry....
There is always, ALWAYS that one guy, who start leading the rest of the world. And I want D.E. to be that company, who shows the rest of the industry, how can they do it much better than the rest of the companies.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

On 2019-11-05 at 9:31 AM, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Players: We want update now! We know there'll be bugs, we'll deal with them until they're fixed

Also players: DE! BUGS!

Thats probably the worst part about this community,  everyone has no idea what they want, but when they get something, anything, they tend to *@##$...alot.

[Shinigami_Greed]

3 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

Great comeback that does absolutely nothing. You already proved you lie just to defend DE, so you can say anything you wish.

Great comeback that does absolutely nothing.  You already proved you lie just to stir up drama, so you can say anything you wish.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Shinigami_Greed

[Ephemiel]

1 hour ago, Shinigami_Greed said:

Great comeback that does absolutely nothing.  You already proved you lie just to stir up drama, so you can say anything you wish.

Difference is i didn't lie while anyone with eyes can see you did 😉

 

Using my own words and failing, damn.

[Tyanya]

22 hours ago, Eklectus said:

CDPR

You know it's amazing how folk tout CDPR as being the pinnacle of game development studios all others should aspire to, and granted their views on DRM, DLC and microtransactions are both refreshing and commendable. But when Witcher 3 hit, the CDPR forums were flooded with problems of bugs and various criticisms and the forum moderators were incredibly heavy handed, banning players left, right and centre.

If the Warframe forum moderators took the same stance of those on CDPR's forum, then most of the serial complainers would have been banned by now. I think there's a growing population of posters that take the ability to communicate with the Warframe devs for granted almost to the point where making demands on them wrapped in insults and disdain has become the norm. 

It is possible to leave constructive feedback or report bugs without having little sly digs our full blown insults, just consider them as human beings and in the same room as you and how you'd communicate with them if that was the setting, I'm sure most would be much more respectful, and if they wouldn't, that's pretty tragic in of its self.

I'm pretty sure the DE staff are working flat out, do you really think barking orders at them is going to make them work 110%,or change anything?

Also, being grateful, respectful and appreciative of the game devs and expressing that is not white-knighting, where as appearing on every thread and saying everything is perfect when it isn't is, white-knighting is hurtful to game development, it can be very beneficial to have an open dialog with your playerbase, but having to wade through piles of insults and sarcasm only dilutes their ability act on what the playerbase wants.

[Shinigami_Greed]

51 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

Difference is i didn't lie while anyone with eyes can see you did 😉

 

Using my own words and failing, damn.

Neither did I, drama queen. 

Don't respond to me again.

[0_The_F00l]

As much as I love DE as a company I do have to say they suck at time management (amongst a few other specific things) 

[kapn655321]

This game is Open Beta, and we are it's play testers.

Warframe was started as a passion project with an untenable model of releasing most of it's content before it's completed to gauge both off of business and player viability.
Miraculously, they've survived this decision.

They have never experienced more than 3 weeks of player loss by being able to debut content in the works, live, even with problems.

The only way to reverse this trend is to shut down for a year to two while they, "perfect," things.
...which.. if you've played other major release games, you will know...
A) There are ALWAYS still bugs.
B) Content always gets left on the cutting room floor.
C) There is a set window of release, advertising, and END of development.

For DE to not release anything half done, they will lose a critical amount of players, making the update pointless and not profitable.

They took this path instead of the other... and as a result, we have a game that has Grown for 10 years, receiving regular imperfect attention,
as compared to exactly none after launch date.

If you want a game that charges you full price for a title released that still has bugs, and will charge you just as much for DLC that still has bugs..
you certain have and will always have that option.

If you want this title, and the Devs able to still work on it at a pace that doesn't burn them out, so that we reach a more complete game overall..
then there must be some adjustment to the fact that it cannot be perfect, despite Anyone's hopes, dreams, or best efforts.

[40PE]

19 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

The only way to reverse this trend is to shut down for a year to two while they, "perfect," things.
...which.. if you've played other major release games, you will know...
A) There are ALWAYS still bugs.
B) Content always gets left on the cutting room floor.
C) There is a set window of release, advertising, and END of development.

How can you justify what you just said here? Why would be the only reason to shut down for a year? I smell bullS#&$ my friend, illogical at best.

A.) And? There are minor, mediocre, and system/game breaking bugs. Game breaking bugs are kind of easy to see, multiple computers required, let say 5 different hardver, and bang you will experience the game breaking issue.

After update, I've logged in, BANG I saw the graphical issue straight away! Yes I know suddenly my computer got broken, and all drivers too, and my windows. Suddenly, although everything else works just fine, other games I play.

There is called beta testing. This phase is lower than bare minimal at D.E. I bet my whole year salary. They start up the developer version, muck around, if its not freezing good! Ok lets fix some bugs that is really bad, like UI and this and that and ship. Rest will be fixed after release.

In the good old times, there were called alpha testing, and beta testing and open beta. For at least 2-3months! Sure, this game is different, and I believe we don't even need 2-3months of beta testing, all we need is 2weeks tops! We just need an PTR Environment, that players can test and check out BANG! Issue solved, case closed. This is what most of the companies making AAA games doing (although granted, they got most of the times terrible communication via a forum (not even reporting system for the bugs), so many big bugs end up in the release. 🙂

C.) Let's talk about the advertisement of the U26. They told us that next week will be ready. Then started showing videos, and also promotional content came out to U26 at that time. Then they said, nah, next week. More promotional videos, twitter... Then, guess what they said after two weeks? Yes you guessed it right, next week. They've BARELY made the last week, Friday release, and no support properly on the weekend either. But it was advertised like crazy, Grendel, Kuva Lich, whatever you want. I call this false advertisement, if the game is bugged and the new content is not working properly and as a gamer you just get frustrated about it.

And this is, mind you Update 26. Every... other... update... went... down... LIKE THIS ONE! All of the big mainline updates!

If this would be paid content update, maaaan, people would loose their sh!t for real!

So having an open beta, free to play game is not an excuse. Because everyone, the gamers too trying to save D.E. by saying exactly this.

Edited November 13, 2019 by 40PE

[(XBOX)RageOrPanic]

Yes! Raise your standards! This is absurd! Blasphemy! Shame on you DE.

 

Do i fit in now?

 

[kapn655321]

2 hours ago, 40PE said:

If this would be paid content update, maaaan, people would loose their sh!t for real!

If you've watched speed runs, you'll know even the most expensive and beloved games can be broken to the core.

There is no bugless game. Just straight up isn't one.
Difference being, we get hotfixes.
We do not get paid DLC infusions to gloss over lack of content and flaws.

Was watching a playthrough the other day of Red Dead Redemption 2..
..the second one in the series, a AAA release from one of the most reliable and experienced studios this market can offer.
As the guy who's playing is driving a stage coach, he hovers off, flips around 180 degrees, and cannot get out of that animation.
That guy is never getting an update. That game is done, and he paid full price.

I've had bugs in this game, where DE has responded and fixed the bug that week, others in the months to follow when they can,
some that are still there of course.. I don't deny that.

Difference being, Warframe is still in development.
The systems that can break can also still be fixed, and we're not paying full price to NOT have that possibility.

Every game has bugs. This game is free.
Full price games stop fixing bugs when the game is sold and done.
Warframe has been receiving hotfixes and updates for nearly 10 years, for No cost.


If you want them to only release things that are perfect, their entire business and development model will have to change to pay to play in the highest order,
and we won't see content for months to years while they make the futile effort to release the worlds first bugless game.

Asking for the impossible sounds illogical.
BANG!ing on the desk to demand more out of people who gave you this for free does, too.

Edited November 13, 2019 by kapn655321

[40PE]

6 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

There is no bugless game. Just straight up isn't one.
Difference being, we get hotfixes.
We do not get paid DLC infusions to gloss over lack of content and flaws.

Was watching a playthrough the other day of Red Dead Redemption 2..
..the second one in the series, a AAA release from one of the most reliable and experienced studios this market can offer.

Who said buggles? Read what I wrote about the different level of bugs and how to test them out.

We get hotfixes... And other games dont? Don't see what you mean by this.

We don't get paid DLCs, however they do have to fix paid DLCs bugs still. Again, there is no difference. Read what I said. F2P, Open Beta, no excuse!

Yes, RDR2 is a perfect example of terrible quality release. I read that many people get freezes, missions doesn't work and I just stop reading all those forum posts. I'll buy that game when its discounted to at least 75%, because this kind of coding just doesn't deserve the money at all.

That is not an excuse for WF, that "but its free". Coding is coding, same thing.

And also, just because YOU THINK THERE IS NO BUGGLES GAME, man, seriously in the past, we had full releases prior to internet with very limited bugs. There were barely anything like "ohh this game suck it freezes my PC." and "DirectX error"... None of that.

Having management that pushes the Devs to release... Who is to blame for bugged games? The PCs? Hardvare differences? No. The Industry. D.E. can change their views on design and release, just like you.

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, 40PE said:

I'll buy that game when its discounted

So you'd still play a bugged game if it was cheaper, aye?

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, (XB1)MetalPain x 666 said:

Yes! Raise your standards! This is absurd! Blasphemy! Shame on you DE.

 

Do i fit in now?

 

No. You have to be more... agressive and subtle. It has to be like putting glass dust in the cocaine.

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

No. You have to be more... agressive and subtle. It has to be like putting glass dust in the cocaine.

Good Gravy. o_O

I don't think a video game is worth all that.
I get you were kidding.. but that went places.

[TheHappyTyranid]

Can't wait to see one of the administrators come here and stop the posting. 

Did any of you play Subnautica when it was in Early Development? Or maybe done a long run in Skyrim? Full priced games that were glitchy as hell, sometimes not in good ways.

I really hope that both sides of the problem get fixed.

 

[DoomFruit]

On 2019-11-05 at 3:31 PM, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Players: We want update now! We know there'll be bugs, we'll deal with them until they're fixed

Also players: DE! BUGS!

As shocking as it may be for you to hear this, the players who say line A are not the ones who say line B. The players who say line B (such as myself) will NEVER be saying "hurry the update" and will be saying things like "stop releasing broken crap" because they do not have even the slightest inclination to. There is no hypocrisy on our part when we get pissed off with bugs.

[-Krism-]

43 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

As shocking as it may be for you to hear this, the players who say line A are not the ones who say line B. The players who say line B (such as myself) will NEVER be saying "hurry the update" and will be saying things like "stop releasing broken crap" because they do not have even the slightest inclination to. There is no hypocrisy on our part when we get pissed off with bugs.

You know it's not all black or all white? Like you said, there's people saying A & people saying B, but people saying both exist too

[40PE]

18 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

So you'd still play a bugged game if it was cheaper, aye?

No, by the time it is discounted, its at least 1 year past release. They do fix big issues until then, if not, of course I wouldn't buy. First I usually check the game's official forums for info, just like WF. And Reddit too, nowadays.

[40PE]

16 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

You know it's not all black or all white? Like you said, there's people saying A & people saying B, but people saying both exist too

And C and D and E, he left out a lot of other choices. 🙂

[40PE]

19 hours ago, (XB1)MetalPain x 666 said:

Yes! Raise your standards! This is absurd! Blasphemy! Shame on you DE.

 

Do i fit in now?

 

Do you feel you need to fit in? Is that makes you happy? Then yes, fit in -here or wherever your hearth desires-.

[40PE]

17 hours ago, TheHappyTyranid said:

Can't wait to see one of the administrators come here and stop the posting. 

Did any of you play Subnautica when it was in Early Development? Or maybe done a long run in Skyrim? Full priced games that were glitchy as hell, sometimes not in good ways.

I really hope that both sides of the problem get fixed.

 

Youre right. That is the main reason why I started the topic. If the industry does something wrong, should you follow it and say, "nah, everyone doing it its the standard". Even though it is clearly visible in year by year basis, that more and more games comes out with serious game breaking issues, freezes, missions unable to complete, interface not working, FPS Drastically low or stuttering, etc.

These are the game breaking bugs that can be fixed, and should be fixed prior game release. Minor bugs, and nuisances? Sure we can live with it. The quality of game releases AND big updates are going down, that is clear.

Oh and by the way: If an admin comes in and lock the topic thats not because what I'm proposing, its because you guys are arguing and many times toxic with each other, it is really hard to take it in, and be calm about it, not to say, stop the fking trolling, harrassing each other.

What I'm proposing is based on experience, logic, and quality of game(s). Nothing about what I WANT with caps and !!!! It is about the industry and that I would really like to see D.E. to step it up a notch, not follow the bad behavior and project management of such updates like U26 and most of the Mainline updates. Not good enough after 6+ years!

Edited November 14, 2019 by 40PE