bullet jumping is bad, should be regulated

[Erwes]

 

 

It's unbalanced. So it's overused. So it's an issue. The mechanic is too powerfull. It is not normal that it's the fastest way to travel on a flat land rather than running.  

 

Because of some extreme defenders I can not see DE take it off, it's part of the identity of Warframe.

However the game would benefit from quite a simple thing : REGULATION. "Excesses and debauchery demoralize infinitely more than privations" say Émile de Girardin.

Because I like constructive criticism here an example from myself that I'm sure will inspire you others : just add a countdown, few seconds, or more you spam less it's effective kind of limitation, you will have to wait to be able to reuse it normally (it's just an idea).

Remember when SSBu change the dodging to make it less and less effective when you spam it, that was an issue and a complain on the SSB wiiu version.

 

That's one of the reason that I slowly began playing play less and less to finally just come back for big updates. For me it is obvious that it participates in the problems difficulty of the game. It breaks the level design, the ia reaction which can't keep up and also some warframe abilities that are less effective (invisbility was a thing, now I don't remember feeling sufficiently in danger to have to think of his using or find it cool anymore).

Were are space ninja, not space grasshopper...

 

Edit  :

1. Also, it's not wanting a return of the old parkour systeme, stamina bar, or the removing of bullet jump. It's about balancing of a badly implemented gameplay design. 
2. Buffing generally breaks more than it repairs. Changing everything just because of one thing and hoping it will coherently work is illusory.
3. I think the game have more to offer than just grinding infinitely, and the "fun" shouldn't be limited to that. Otherwise the gameplay is just an excuse to slow you down from having your reward and so spending more time in the game. And if so just go play hazard base game, or go to the casino. 
4. Take the time to understand that I don't want to modify the game for my own selfish pleasure. I want the game to respect itself, respect the effort of DE, and showing that there is some core issue in the game, fixing the news update will never make the game "better". Content is basically just a pretext for you to spend more time on a game by agitating new, shinning things. 
5. Bonus, your fun is personal, people enjoy different things. I respect that. But "fun" doesn't mean "right". My point is not that I hate the mechanic, it's about what I can't enjoy with. Bullet jump breaks what the game itself is proposing (it's obviously not the only thing of course).

 

As I'm not an english speakers myself here some quotes in this thread that I like which really well explained what I wanted to show : 

by @Teljaxx :

on bullet jumping overused

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But there does need to be a good reason to use every option given to you. Otherwise, why have them? If this were a single player game, you would be right. Having unbalanced options wouldn't be much of a problem, because every player would be free to choose whatever they wanted to use, OP or not. But in a multiplayer game, there needs to be limitations. Otherwise, as long as one player uses the meta, everyone else has to as well, or they get left behind.

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If nothing is stopping you from using the clearly superior option, so there is no reason not to use it. Because bullet jumping has no limitations, or downsides, there is no reason not to use it every chance you get. So what do you think the majority of players are going to use?

on nerfing and buffing

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 The players are so powerful, and can do so much, that it ends up being rather shallow, and gets boring quickly. There are so few limitations, that there is very little potential for challenge, because there is almost always an easy way out. So what few limitations there are are super important, and taking away even a small one might be too much. This is why always buffing, never nerfing is a bad idea. Buffs remove limitations, while nerfs can add them.

Citation

if rushers don't like the game, and avoid playing as much of the game as they can, then why would catering to them, and balancing around them be a good idea? Its fine to acknowledge their existence. But basing core gameplay systems, like bullet jumping and coptering, around them is a bad idea. It just forces everyone to be a rusher, or get left behind.

Citation

If DE were to actually listen to all the people that only ever want buffs, and that want to be able to rush through missions even faster, it would only get worse. I could see it getting to the point where you wouldn't even actually play missions anymore. You would just click the node on the starmap, and the game would say "Mission complete!" and shower you with rewards. And I doubt these people would even be satisfied with that, still asking for it to be even faster, so they could play even less.

by @Pallie

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Movement in this game lacks decision making. It lacks skill like proper timing or managing jumps i mean you can roll in air. It lacks trade offs when no ai can punish me. Theres nothing wrong with being able to avoid ai, but make me actually try for that to happen sometime.

[...]

Here im just mashing ctrl and space bar.

Sure I can roll to reduce damage, but I'm not timing it, I'm spamming it.

by @Mach25

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the hopping and such really makes the game feel less like a game about space ninjas and more like children gadding about, detracting from the "cool" factor that the developers were going for.

by @CephalonSolo

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 I asked the same question a whyle ago but the real question too ask is ; in a looter-shooter game is it right to skip all these enemies at once ? In a capture mission for example generally people finish with 0 dmg done , exctarcion defense and survival are saryn volt equinox houses ,. Where is the house to actually shooter Warframe or support warframes ? What's Grendel Garuda to shift the meta ? Nothing at all, we are playing a spam 1button to get the reward game , and I heard in console is even worst , how can u get new players if the high end gameplay is spamming a button over and over again .

Edited November 10, 2019 by Erwes

[Rakosta_Kai]

I guess if you give anything enough time it'll come back in style...

First, bell-bottoms, then Member's Only jackets , and now the stamina bar.

 

Should we have armor repair, ammo costs, Collateral damage insurance too? (actually, some of those are not a bad idea ).

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Padre_Akais

[KnossosTNC]

Ah, a blast from the past. Interesting timing, too.

Ship has long sailed, mate. It's never coming back.

Edited November 7, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

There was a time when bullet jumps were not a thing. Players had to walk. Then coptering was discovered, which gave birth to bullet jumps.

Let's not degrade ourselves back to those dark ages of stamina bars and feet exclusiveness.

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

Where is the issue exactly? If you don't like bullet jumping, just don't.

[Kaotyke]

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

Actually, I kinda agree that bullet jumping is too fast? Not in the 'get rid of it' sort of way, but in the 'If you have been moving continuously on the floor for X amount of time you should get a speed boost.'

[AlexMercer]

I like bullet jumping its fun but its not the reason the game is easy atleast not the biggest reason.

[Tsukinoki]

Just now, (PS4)NemitheNem said:

Actually, I kinda agree that bullet jumping is too fast? Not in the 'get rid of it' sort of way, but in the 'If you have been moving continuously on the floor for X amount of time you should get a speed boost.'

This I can agree with.
If you've been running for longe enoguh you should move faster to some upper limit.

That way you aren't punished for bullet jumping if you want to, instead it makes long distance running closer to bullet jumping in terms of speed.

And anyways its better to reward the behavior you want rather than punish the behavior you don't want in games...and that has been proven over and over again.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

Listen, lets not return to that bull s h i t mechanic that was a stamina bar for warframes. 

[White_Matter]

I've mentioned this a while ago. There are many ways warframe is broken to have sustainable content like power creep and brain dead enemies, but parkour is also one of the culprits I'd say.

Having the capability to run past any kind of challenge, well, beats the purpose of a challenge. 

Enemy is too strong ? Just run past em. I think Parkour needs a nerf, and enemies should be updated to be able to keep up with parkour to a certain degree.

I wouldn't want bulletjump or other parkour manuevers taken away, because extreme mobility is what seperates warframe from everything else, but at the same time I do think that it should be regulated to a certain degree.

[Erwes]

Citation

And anyways its better to reward the behavior you want rather than punish the behavior you don't want in games...and that has been proven over and over again.

I agree i don't want to be punish to prefere running then jump spamming 

[Erwes]

Citation

Listen, lets not return to that bull s h i t mechanic that was a stamina bar for warframes. 

Hey, i never spoke about stamina

Edited November 7, 2019 by Erwes

[CephalonDizzy]

Pure bullet jumping isn't even the fastest way to get around anyway, it's a combination of bullet jumping, rolling, sliding, void dashing, and depending on terrain, sprinting for short stretches.

 

You'd have to put similar limits to ALL these things to accomplish whatever goal you are outlining.

[Siegecraft]

so u r asking movement like desttiny  i guess  my personal  opinion tho  the bullet jump  is the star of the warframe  i dont know about other but bullet jump is the best  mistake that has ever happned in warframe and so we r grasshoper so forget about running jumping and other we r space ninja so we must be th archwing alltime and while ot the groung the walk should me full moon walk slow and  jumping  and boost to go a bit far  like a space simulater

[RX-3DR]

There's completely no mention of stamina bar anywhere in the opening post, just a limitation on Bullet Jumping rapidly. It really only highlights 1 thing. People have it so ingrained in them to spam Bullet Jumps across a flat surface that they've completely forgotten that Sprinting exists and wouldn't be affected by this and see any change on bullet jump as full limitation on their mobility.

Personally, I'm not on the side of cooldowns. It's too convenient of a solution that doesn't really offer any room to advance. Instead, I would say, as I've done before, that we should have a charge mechanic for holding down crouch to affect the speed and distance of bullet jumps. It offers a limitation on the excesses but opens the up the system to a higher skill ceiling where mobility has a much bigger flow of sliding down slopes to maintain speed while you charge a bullet jump.

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 minutes ago, Erwes said:

I think we have plenty of speed boost, you can use volt or mod ect 

This is nothing compared to the beast that was Coptering.

Granted, there is an argument to be had about a speed boost if someone chooses to run&gun as opposed to the current hopping bullet jump or the original sprint→Baseball slide→flip →sprint to restore stamina and maintain ground speed.

But that argument doesn't need to come with a plea for change... You could simply have said " I don't like X. I prefer Y and would like to see it buffed in some way."

We plea too much for nerfs here when all we actually wanted to begin with are niche buffs.

The little buffs are easier to sell imo.

[Erwes]

Citation

Personally, I'm not on the side of cooldowns. It's too convenient of a solution that doesn't really offer any room to advance

Yeah it was just an idea, but you got the point 

[Yasha-7HS]

5 minutes ago, Erwes said:

Hey, i never spoke about stamina

A countdown or cooldown in which you have to be slower and wait to be faster, in essence the same thing.

 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)NemitheNem said:

Actually, I kinda agree that bullet jumping is too fast? Not in the 'get rid of it' sort of way, but in the 'If you have been moving continuously on the floor for X amount of time you should get a speed boost.'

 

What was suggested since the initial release of Parkour 2.0 is that base sprint speed should increase. Parkour, without mods, is faster than sprinting on all but like five or six frames. Bullet jump is just entirely faster than sprinting or Slash Dash on Excalibur, and he's a melee based frame who should prefer his feet on the ground. 

DE didn't listen then.

[Erwes]

Yeah i know It's a bad time to ask nerfing, but boosting others things will only damage more than it fix. And I think now some people realize we became to close to the gods. Don't forget we are only mortals who tasted the forbidden fruit

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

No, I'm not interested in going back to Year 1-2 with stamina bars and nerfs to movement....Even if they went back do you think the grind will lessen any with all these brakes being applied?.. Countless 15 minutes or more to run a normal exterminate for an ammo drum, maybe a bronco prime receiver or a forma BP if you're lucky? Let alone anything of value found elsewhere being placed in a over saturated pool of drops set to 1%...Because all of that's coming along as well with your let's make it harder mantra...

Nothing against it being hard in new planets and tile sets to come, but the rewards from all indications over the last seven years are not going to match the level of what's being asked in time and effort and that means dead nodes and mission types without a suitable carrot for said stick.

Edited November 7, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Erwes]

Citation

No, I'm not interested in going back to Year 1-2 with stamina bars and nerfs to movement

That's not my point 

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 minutes ago, Erwes said:

Yeah i know It's a bad time to ask nerfing, but boosting others things will only damage more than it fix. And I think now some people realize we became to close to the gods. Don't forget we are only mortals who tasted the forbidden fruit

Then explain what you are doing?

36 minutes ago, Erwes said:

Just add a countdown, few seconds, more you spam less it's effective, you will have to wait for his full charge to become again high and mighty.

↑ That's a nerf  and serves the purpose the stamina bar did.

37 minutes ago, Erwes said:

It is not normal that it's the fastest way to travel on a flat land rather than running.

↑ Unless you think speed is too high overall...That's asking for a buff.

If you think speed is too high overall then you need to stop making use of those mechanics. Requiring that others do so in order to suit your views seems a bit entitled to me.

 

It's the equivalent to me saying that you should use a Strun for all your missions because it's my favorite weapon.

[(NSW)1kSakura]

Seriously?........ Do you also want a stamina bar that affects the warframe's movements?

[Rakosta_Kai]

18 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

There's completely no mention of stamina bar anywhere in the opening post, just a limitation on Bullet Jumping rapidly.

Only because the OP just edited it out.