bullet jumping is bad, should be regulated

[Erwes]

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I just don't understand why people want to lower Warframe's power. 

Isn't that the fun thing about playing Warframe?? Having immense power at our disposal?

There is nothing fun to be already broken. The fun is to become stronger. Don't you know Dragon Ball ...?

Being strong is cool, being too strong is boring (go see Watchmen)

 

Citation

Nerfing movement, or power levels should NEVER be an option. But buff AI of enemies and their mechanics.

Pretty radical. It would require more work than my idea. I want to "change" one thing because It's gone too far.

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There are plenty other games in which you can feel helpless and with no power against enemies. Warframe was never like that.

I liked the game because it was hard, unique, and helpless. Understanding mechanic was rewarding, now it's really just grind to keep up awake (tenno). Also there wasn't any tutorials at the time.

Citation

DE is listening to the wrong kind of ideas, they are totally ruining their own game because of this.

I agree

[Eklectus]

Didn't we see this same line of thinking with the Itzal recently?

[BLI7Z]

10 minutes ago, Erwes said:

There is nothing fun to be already broken. The fun is to become stronger. Don't you know Dragon Ball ...?

Being strong is cool, being too strong is boring (go see Watchmen)

 

Pretty radical. It would require more work than my idea. I want to "change" one thing because It's gone too far.

I liked the game because it was hard, unique, and helpless. Understanding mechanic was rewarding, now it's really just grind to keep up awake (tenno). Also there wasn't any tutorials at the time.

I agree

I play Warframe since around 5 years ago. It has always been almost unlimited power if you knew what to do. The stamina bar wasn't even a problem if you knew how to time your movements to keep up the momentum. 

Strong depends on what you compare it with... so, enemies are just dumb and sometimes bullet sponges. 

Bullet jumping isn't a problem, and power creep isn't a problem, enemies are the real problem. Imposed artificial difficulty is the problem. 

DE added nullifiers, they were a good and fun addition. People compained and still complain about them. That kind of enemy mechanics make bullet jumping and power creep worth, requiring timing, ability, strategy. Also like the Nox. I would love to see DE adding more enemies that require to think about how to kill them (not in a way the Lichs or bosses work, but how those specific ones I named work).

Edited November 7, 2019 by BLI7Z

[anfuerudo]

Oh, it's the April Fools day! *checks the calendar* Oh. It's not. You're serious then. Oh. Oooh...

Jokes aside, no. It's not. Stop forcing your preferences on others. No one forces you to bunny hop through star chart, so you should not be forcing anyone to move as you like.

This game is already time consuming beyond any reason and it doesn't need another hindrance, this time user-created, to become even more time consuming. Not to mention that it will ruin some game modes, like Interception or Disruption, because they heavily rely on movement, especially when played solo.

[Erwes]

Citation

I play Warframe since around 5 years ago. It has always been almost unlimited power if you knew what to do. The stamina bar wasn't even a problem if you knew how to time your movements to keep up the momentum. 

Strong depends on what you compare it with... so, enemies are just dumb and sometimes bullet sponges. 

Bullet jumping isn't a problem, and power creep isn't a problem, enemies are the real problem. Imposed artificial difficulty is the problem. 

I played around 2013 - 2014 I think, I don't know why it's 2015 on my profil, maybe i did a new account, don't know. 

I don't talk a bout the stamina bar for a reason : It has nothing to do with my point. Maybe I'm not as traumatized as some others. 

I can clearly remember the difficulty. I mean yes we were strong, but not as strong as any new players now, by far. Hey I even create a new account some 2 years ago, and I played the game a bit on my ps4.

I agree the enemies doesn't help at all. But as you can see there is two issues : how it overpowered most of the basic movement set, and how it breaks the encounter (level design, and the enemies who can't keep up).

[BLI7Z]

1 minute ago, Erwes said:

I played around 2013 - 2014 I think, I don't know why it's 2015 on my profil, maybe i did a new account, don't know. 

I don't talk a bout the stamina bar for a reason : It has nothing to do with my point. Maybe I'm not as traumatized as some others. 

I can clearly remember the difficulty. I mean yes we were strong, but not as strong as any new players now, by far. Hey I even create a new account some 2 years ago, and I played the game a bit on my ps4.

I agree the enemies doesn't help at all. But as you can see there is two issues : how it overpowered most of the basic movement set, and how it breaks the encounter (level design, and the enemies who can't keep up).

There were less variety of enemies also, now new players are buffed because new enemies are more powerfull. That isn't a bad thing, totally the contrary I think. They should keep on ramping up enemy power and player's power. Instead of nerfing into a common ground, they should buff to a common ground so the ceiling is even higher. 

And why some dumb clones should keep up with Warframes movements? In any case they should add more Stalker-like enemies, or Hyena packs but upgraded being a real threat and buff their movements. But an army of DNA damaged clones won't be able to keep up with Warframe's void amped power and movement. More Elite enemies that can keep up with our powers would be nice. But there will always be lots and lots of helpless cannon fodder. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

21 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

power creep isn't a problem

I disagree, power creep is and has been a problem for warframe for a long time. And should be reeled in for the intended level to where difficult content can actually be difficult and people can stop yelling that they need to do hour long endurance runs to get their supposed difficulty. Melee changes were a nice step towards reeling it in, although it fked with some builds (like making CO able to replace Primed/Pressure Point) and what not.

[BLI7Z]

Just now, ShadowExodus said:

I disagree, power creep is and has been a problem for warframe for a long time. And should be reeled in for the intended level to where difficult content can actually be difficult and people can stop yelling that they need to do hour long endurance runs to get their supposed difficulty. Melee changes were a nice step towards reeling it in, although it fked with some builds (like making CO able to replace Primed/Pressure Point) and what not.

It is a problem if enemies aren't a real threat. And it isn't a matter of enemy level and going into long endurances to get there. Enemy scaling is just artificial difficulty. Enemies need more mechanics that are dangerous, in a way that even some kinds of level 50 Elite units can be a threat (not talking about armor or damage here, bullet sponges and one hit kills aren't real difficulty). Something like Nox and Nullies, something that makes us think how to approach them or get rekt. 

[Erwes]

Citation

There were less variety of enemies also, now new players are buffed because new enemies are more powerfull. That isn't a bad thing, totally the contrary I think. They should keep on ramping up enemy power and player's power. Instead of nerfing into a common ground, they should buff to a common ground so the ceiling is even higher

Yeah new players are really lucky. The old game was so empty. But paradoxically, despite all these new additions, the bullet jump is too often the best solution and it makes the game flatter than before.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Erwes

[Joltyboi]

12 minutes ago, Erwes said:

Yeah new players are really lucky. The old game was so empty. But paradoxically, despite all these new additions, the bullet jump is too often the best solution and it makes the game flatter than before.

 

12 minutes ago, Erwes said:

the bullet jump is too often the best solution

really? then please, explain how bullet jumping is the best solution to killing an eidolon

youre talking about this like someone would talk about an over powered weapon that tops every other weapon in the game in every activity and makes every other weapon useless, theres nothing wrong with bullet jumping, if they removed bullet jumping ide flat out refuse to do certain things, theres a relic farm capture mission in the void i sometimes do, which is rare cause i find farming it to try and get the specific relics i want from its drop tables tedious and boring as all hell, if i couldnt bullet jump to help get me through the mission as fast as possible ide never do it at all

[Anarbitrio]

Would it be that bad if bullet jumping wer the best thing to do for vertical movement and/or in the presence of gaps, while running were the best option when in a straight line/open field? Right now, unless you're playing something like Volt or Gauss, there is no reason to stop jumping.

Cinematically it would be so weird to see warriors always spinning parallel to the ground.

[Erwes]

Citation

really? then please, explain how bullet jumping is the best solution to killing an eidolon

It's writen too often, not always. Also I don't like eidolon, the idea of boss is cool but in the end it's just messy. Also Bullet jump does no damage, but it's indeed the best way to dodge his attack. 

[Erwes]

Citation

Would it be that bad if bullet jumping wer the best thing to do for vertical movement and/or in the presence of gaps, while running were the best option when in a straight line/open field? Right now, unless you're playing something like Volt or Gauss, there is no reason to stop jumping.

I think some people must have some inferiority complex to be be so afraid of nerfing at that point...

[Checht]

@Erwes Come to Destiny. Now that it's free to play, I think you might enjoy it. I too think that Warframe has too many cheese mechanics and was waiting for any updates that would introduce some difficulty, which never happened. Destiny comes close to what I wanted. Until Warframe addresses these cheese mechanics and braindead difficulties, I will be staying with Destiny for the long run.

[Eklectus]

16 minutes ago, Erwes said:

It's writen too often, not always. Also I don't like eidolon, the idea of boss is cool but in the end it's just messy. Also Bullet jump does no damage, but it's indeed the best way to dodge his attack. 

Err, no. Sitting in Operator mode is the best way to dodge his attack.

[Erwes]

@Checht

I- I can't... I can"t give up, not now.. There is still hope ...! Maybe one day people will understand.. I have to fight for what I believe until my last breath....It's  my nindo.

If I don't.... Who gonna talk about bullet jumping !  Now that people are more mental than some Outlast 2 foes. For the silent minority I must stay strong !!

freedooooom

[Erwes]

Citation

Err, no. Sitting in Operator mode is the best way to dodge his attack.

Well then, you can't bullet jump with your operator. So, I don't care. It's not my point. I invite you to read some older post

[Drachnyn]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Erwes:

I think some people must have some inferiority complex to be be so afraid of nerfing at that point...

Yep definitely that and not people want to keep a really awesome and unique movement system in this game. I am sure you have cracked the code.

On a serious note i 100% agree with Checht that you should go play destiny.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Erwes said:

I don't talk a bout the stamina bar for a reason : It has nothing to do with my point. Maybe I'm not as traumatized as some others. 

Unless you can be a lot more specific than you have so far, it's got everything to do with your point.

...So much so that you removed what amounts to just such a system from your OP.

Everything else you are spouting is theorycrafting a rather vague PoV and saying everyone should subscribe to it.

No disrespect intended... The reason you are getting so much pushback is because your idea, while great for you, sucks for practically everyone else.

There are any number of skills and abilities that do much the same thing from a traversal perspective....You want all of them nerfed so you feel useful in groups too?

 

FWIW the silent majority hates your idea too...I checked.

 

[Joltyboi]

38 minutes ago, Erwes said:

but it's indeed the best way to dodge his attack. 

and bullet jumping being the best way to dodge its attacks is a bad thing because...?

[Eklectus]

58 minutes ago, Erwes said:

Well then, you can't bullet jump with your operator. So, I don't care. It's not my point. I invite you to read some older post

Your point becomes moot. How about you start calling for a Void-Mode nerf since it's just "so overused" for avoiding damage? Your main complaint is that bullet jumping allows you to move so fast, you can just rush past enemies, trivializing any challenge they may pose, but, once again. Operators. They grant complete invulnerability, allow you to pass through clusters of enemies if you, somehow, become trapped and let you move faster than bullet jumping. Sounds to me like you've got personal bias against the very concept, rather than any actual issues with what it does to gameplay.

[(XBOX)ELM0Damian]

Feels like you have the wrong approach to this. You could just ask for better level design based on warframes insane movement system. Ones that keep you focused your surroundings while trying to balance combat at the same time. Or ones that have you crawling the air ducts and small passageways while fighting of infested making you feel claustrophobic. Anything besides nerfing the movment that 97% of the community loves. And if it ever got nerfed it would just make more problems like the community asking why doesn't every warframe have a movement abilitty? Why am i forced to play gaus,nova,titania, zephyr,volt,etc just to be effective at farming? Dont nerf movement just so we are forced to enjoy level design make levels that force us to use alternate movement.

[Test-995]

2km marathon per missions is more badder than badness of bulletjump bad.

[Pallie]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Movement in this game lacks decision making. It lacks skill like proper timing or managing jumps i mean you can roll in air. It lacks trade offs when no ai can punish me. Theres nothing wrong with being able to avoid ai, but make me actually try for that to happen sometime.

I don't think cool downs are a way to go. Things like aiming in the sky to jump high are a very innovative thing. It's very deliberate and feels almost like I'm doing it.

But when you're just mashing spacebar against a wall to go higher or spamming bullet jump forward it takes away any accomplishment from moving through a level efficiently. I hear people mention the word speedrunning missions a lot.

I thought speedrunning meant actually understanding a game and forming routes and better strategies.

Here im just mashing ctrl and space bar.

Sure I can roll to reduce damage, but I'm not timing it, I'm spamming it.

 

Not asking for a hard game, but man while I enjoy the customization and potential main story, I always end up feeling like what the hell am I doing with my life when the missions get super brainless.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pallie

[RX-3DR]

7 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

You mean like some kind stamina system?

Only if your entire mobility in this game revolves around spamming bullet jumps and you are incapable of sprinting, wall hopping and aim gliding. This is like saying limiting slide attacks by making adding a requirement to slide for 0.3 seconds before or you'll just do a normal melee swing is a melee stamina system. The rest of the game isn't affected, unlike stamina which affects a group of actions.