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Kuva weapon damage calculation and bugged elemental bonus

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Hi, I learned from a friend (credit to Leyzar for first showing the bug with his Kuva Ogris) that the Kuva weapon damage calculations compared to linkable baselines are screwed up and cut potentially a lot of damage (in some cases). This issue mostly affects weapons with elemental damage, in a decent amount Kuva Seer but most affected are weapons with mostly elemental damage like Kuva Tonkor. I probably wouldn't notice the issue with pure IPS weapons if not for a friendly fellow from one of the Discord communities I participate in.

Image under spoiler:

Spoiler

2GzIgay.png

Let's take a closer look.

Weapons with pure IPS are noticeably less affected, like my Drakgoon and Twin Stubba.

The Drakgoon should have a total of 460 damage before the progenitor elemental bonus. However, it goes only to 453. The elemental damage bonus of my Drakgoon is 39% Cold, coming up to 176 cold damage, however it should've been 179.4 from the proper total damage. The difference isn't that bad, it's only 1.5% less base damage and 1.4% less elemental damage bonus.

The Twin Stubbas have baseline 27 damage with the actual value becoming 26.2 damage when the element is applied. The element difference isn't much (26% Heat in my Dubba Stubba), so it amounts to 0.2 points of damage difference, which is for both total damage and elemental bonus a 3% difference.

It gets worse, though.

The Seer doesn't get too bad yet, but the difference is somewhat noticeable.

Total baseline damage of the Kuva Seer is 200, of which you got a nice 69 Corrosive. When you get it as weapon proper though... it's 50.3 damage. Total damage drops to 180.8 damage. It's a 9.6% difference. The IPS doesn't suffer nearly as much, nearly 19 points of the damage difference is from Corrosive. The heat bonus of my Kuva seer is 37% which with the glitched value comes to 67,2 damage, when it should be 74 Heat damage. It's a difference of 9,2% of what should be.

The most hurt weapons are certainly the weapons with huge majority of elemental damage. Like my poor poor Kuva Tonkor which got the best damage bonus of what I got so far.

Baseline Kuva Tonkor has 733 total damage, 674 of it being Blast. The Kuva Tonkor I received... had a total damage sum (before the progenitor bonus) of 485.6! The Blast dropped by nearly 200 to 426.7. That's 33.8% less base damage! The Heat bonus I received was 58% and amounts to 281.5 damage. But if it wasn't glitched? It'd be 425.1 damage. The difference is also 33.8% damage. An otherwise enjoyable weapon is gutted with a third of its damage being cut off.

DE, please take a closer look and do all you can to fix what should be a simple mathematical calculation of baseline damage with added percentage bonus. Please make sure it applies retroactively.

Fellow Tenno, please share your weapon here to showcase differences, especially the most affected ones - those with baseline elemental damage.

Cheers, Ryla

Edited by Rylatar
credit where's due
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The Kuva Tonkor was touted as having a reload bonus, but it does not.

I forsee millions of kuva weapons in a scrap heap, each with 5 forma on them.....

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I have two Kuva Tonkors (+25% Heat and +49% Heat) and I've done some amateur mathing on them. The stats are listed in the following spoiler

Spoiler

usMBX7T.jpg

The base total damage of the Kuva Tonkor is 733 (59 Puncture + 674 Blast).

25% of the 59 puncture damage is 14.75 damage, and 49% is 28.91 damage.

When you add those numbers to the base total damage, you get new total damages of 747.75 and 761.91.

The total damage of my +25% Heat Kuva Tonkor is 748.1, and the total damage of my +49% Heat Kuva Tonkor is 761. The differences between these and my calculated numbers are basically rounding errors.

 

Additionally, the elemental bonus damage actually added to the weapons is calculated by dividing the new total damage by 1.25 and 1.49 respectively, and then multiplying by 0.25 and 0.49 respectively.

747.75 / 1.25 = 598.2 (the sum of the actual puncture damage and blast damage is 596.1)

598.2 * 0.25 = 149.55 Heat Damage

 

761.91 / 1.49 = 511.35 (the sum of the actual puncture damage and blast damage is 510.7)

511.35 * 0.49 = 250.56 Heat Damage

I would assume that the differences between these values and the ones displayed in game are also effectively just rounding errors.

Edited by Arkheias
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https://youtu.be/glepBEFnamo

Leyzar posted the video today. 

Really disappointed to know that such bug exists. I've got 2 Ogris (1 Cold and 1 Heat) and now I'm hunting new Kuva Lich with Kuva Seer with bonus 57% Toxin damage. Hope DE look into this an fix this issue.

Edited by hviewerh
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Provide more stats from my friend

Kuva Dragoon
    Base 46 46 368 = 460
    Mine 45 45 364 114.8 = 568.8 (display poison 25%, actual 23%)

Kuva Ogris
    Base 18.9 8.1 427 = 454
    Mine 18.6 8.0 283.3 157.2 = 467.1 (display radiation 51%, actual 2.8%)

Kuva Karak
    Base 7.1 6.2 9.7 = 23
    Mine 7.1 6.2 9.6 6.1 = 29 (display elec 26%, actual 26%)

Kuva Tonkor
    Base 59 674 = 733
    Mine 59 168 523 = 750 (display elec 29%, actual 2.3%)

Kuva Chakkhurr
    Base 260 106 = 366
    Mine 440.6 68.4 = 509 (display impact 55%, actual 39%)

Kuva Stubba
    Base 11.6 2.7 12.7 = 27
    Mine 11.3 2.6 12.4 7.6 = 33.9 (display elec 29%, actual 25%)

Kuva Ayanga
    Base 87.0 187 = 274
    Mine 86.4 118.8 117.8 = 323 (display radiation 57%, actual 18%)

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Yeah, something is definitely broken, I've noticed my Ogris and Tonkor deal way less damage than they should. Hopefully DE can fix this in a short span of time.

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It appears that kuva lich weapons are not applying their elemental bonus to the splash damage component of the shot, if it has one. A developer will look into why this doesn't work. Sorry for the disappointing explosions in the mean time.

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21 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

It appears that kuva lich weapons are not applying their elemental bonus to the splash damage component of the shot, if it has one. A developer will look into why this doesn't work. Sorry for the disappointing explosions in the mean time.

That doesn't explain the discrepancy tbh.

My Kuva Ayanga has a perfect 54% radiation bonus for the stats listed. But it only has 321 total dmg instead of its supposed 421. 

It's impact is almost perfect (87 in codex, 86.9 for mine), but its blast value (187 in codex, 121.3 for mine) is literally lower than the base blast value. So I think it's more likely that the splash damage itself is somehow getting lowered prior to the bonus being applied.

Here, my stats:

DWdnNJX.png

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Agree. From what I can tell there are two different issues. One is that the bonus doesn't apply to splash. If you test in the sim, I expect what you will find is that the weapon does 87 * (1+0.54) = 134 damage for direct hit, and the base 187 on splash.

Issue two is that the UI is getting confused. If you look at the arsenal's numbers: 121 + 112 = 233,  minus the 47 bonus you're getting on direct impact = the base damage. Right value applied in the wrong way.

We'll get it sorted out, please excuse the construction debris.

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On 2019-11-09 at 6:49 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Agree. From what I can tell there are two different issues. One is that the bonus doesn't apply to splash. If you test in the sim, I expect what you will find is that the weapon does 87 * (1+0.54) = 134 damage for direct hit, and the base 187 on splash.

Issue two is that the UI is getting confused. If you look at the arsenal's numbers: 121 + 112 = 233,  minus the 47 bonus you're getting on direct impact = the base damage. Right value applied in the wrong way.

We'll get it sorted out, please excuse the construction debris.

Is there any chance we'll get the explosion stats displayed in the UI?

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i wonder if the existing weapons will now be permanently bugged. 31 Lichs in and I find out about this. If so I've just lost 50 formas (bought with platinum) as well as catalysts and exilus. No point doing lich's IMO until its fixed. feelsbadman

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3 hours ago, ---Redemption--- said:

i wonder if the existing weapons will now be permanently bugged. 31 Lichs in and I find out about this. If so I've just lost 50 formas (bought with platinum) as well as catalysts and exilus. No point doing lich's IMO until its fixed. feelsbadman

I empathize with your plight and I am in a similar position (albeit with just about ten liches, and maybe 25 forma), but to be fair DE does have a system in place for melding weapons and keeping investments of forma and potatoes. I'm not sure if, at the moment, we can absorb from an old gun into a new gun but if they cannot implement a fix that works retroactively I would imagine at least they'd add that function to the Valence Transfer. Of course a global fix would be ideal, but I'm just noting that things aren't as bleak as you are suggesting and we are very likely to lose none of our forma, catalyst, and exilus investments. We just have to deal with buggie damage for a bit while they figure it out.

Edited by thurmack
Grammatical

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I'm somewhat reluctant to rely on DE applying a retroactive fix since one was never rolled out for the little duck amp gilding bug and a ton of people just had to craft brand new amps.

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1 hour ago, AtraUnam said:

I'm somewhat reluctant to rely on DE applying a retroactive fix since one was never rolled out for the little duck amp gilding bug and a ton of people just had to craft brand new amps.

Yeah, but amps aren't RNG based in acquisition.  There will be a pretty big show if DE doesn't fix this right.

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3 hours ago, AtraUnam said:

I'm somewhat reluctant to rely on DE applying a retroactive fix since one was never rolled out for the little duck amp gilding bug and a ton of people just had to craft brand new amps.

Fair enough... I'm relatively new to the community, and in my limited experience they have made good on all their mess ups

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In another thread a DE staffer acknowledged the issue and said they're working on a solution. Two issues, actually; they also said the bonus damage isn't applying to secondary explosions at all.

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Kuva Kohm has like 98% damage reduction at max falloff while regular Kohm has like 50%...

Is this intentional?

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Same here.

I just got my Kuva Tonkor with a great +53% electrictiy roll.

The Kuva Tonkor SHOULD have a blast damage of 674. That´s what the game shows in the general overview.

My actual stats show however, that it only has 441.7 Blast damage and 263.4 electricity.

It SHOULD have 674 Blast Damage and 388,49 Electricity damage (53% of Blast and Puncture damage combined).

So instead of 1062 elemental damage it only has 704 elemental damage.

 

No word from the developers so far?

Edited by IamLoco

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33 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

And it got even Worse with new patch . DE please 😂

They "stealth" added Slash damage. Yes, it does more damage now.

No, it´s not a good way to communicate it.

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The slashes aren't a bad thing on the Tonkor, shrapnels can do that sort of thing after all. I think they'll get nasty once I fully build the thing up.

The bonuses now apply correctly so it's basically all working fine now, with minimal deviations at most. Thank you for finally fixing it, I'm enjoying my 58% Heat Kuva Tonkor a lot. ❤️

Edited by Rylatar

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