Kuva Weapon Rivens + Disposition Process Changes

[Sylonus]

6 minutes ago, HolySeraphin said:

Comparing the numbers of Kuva Ogris vs Ogris:

Kuva Ogris has:

 -47% of the damage normal Ogris,

+4% crit chance

+9,78% status chance

It is semi-auto instead of charge, so no 0.3s charge time (It felt like 50% faster in a video)

3 ammo vs 5 (-40% magazine)

+0.4s reload speed (16% faster)

It feels more like a sidegrade, although it is indeed a bit weaker.

The mag size/reload/charged shot does feel sidegrady, the status chance and crit are upgrades (though minor ones for this weapon), but total damage of 47,300 (Original) Vs 25,200 (Kuva Variant), which isn't quite under half like I stated after totalling up full damage, was just under half in cold and blast, but yeah in comparing total damages, nobody in their right mind could consider this a sidegrade in total.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

The mag size/reload/charged shot does feel sidegrady, the status chance and crit are upgrades (though minor ones for this weapon), but total damage of 47,300 (Original) Vs 25,200 (Kuva Variant), which isn't quite under half like I stated after totalling up full damage, was just under half in cold and blast, but yeah in comparing total damages, nobody in their right mind could consider this a sidegrade in total.

Just added a sidenote on my comment.

[Sylonus]

16 minutes ago, HolySeraphin said:

On a side note, having cold damage is not ideal on a status weapon, which was your case. Having toxin or eletricity would be far better because it would increase the corrosive damage and proc chance, therefore stripping more armor faster, especially because it has +83.3% status chance after mods while regular one has +73% status after mods. This would make quite the difference.

Ogris isn't a traditional status weapon, it's not going to "strip armor" quickly due to fire rate no matter what you do, it's only real potential with status is Gas, (Toxin, Electricity and Heat are somewhat useful but not great) regardless, mostly Ogris is a pure damage weapon, and the elements you see are chosen for resistances and due to what stats my riven has, it's not for their status procs. (Another reason why a status bump is not a big upgrade on the Ogris). But the pure damage nerf, is huge.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

Ogris isn't a traditional status weapon, it's not going to "strip armor" quickly due to fire rate no matter what you do, it's only real potential with status is Gas, (Toxin, Electricity and Heat are somewhat useful but not great) regardless, mostly Ogris is a pure damage weapon, and the elements you see are chosen for resistances and due to what stats my riven has, it's not for their status procs. (Another reason why a status bump is not a big upgrade on the Ogris). But the pure damage nerf, is huge.

Not Kuva Ogris, though, the actual fire rate is quite higher. And even 1 corrosive proc can make a difference in a grenade launcher, You're viewing Kuva Ogris as Ogris, and that's a problem. You have to take advantage of the different stats and fire rate, just like you can't build Opticor and Opticor Vandal the same way. Kuva Ogris has less damage because it relies more on status procs and higher fire rate (even though it has smaller magazine, but reduced reload helps a bit). 

While some weapon like Tiberon and its prime version have mostly the same stats (crit damage), others are more different, like how Gorgon Prisma is aimed at crit while Wraith is aimed at status. Therefore you need different stats for the riven.

Kuva Ogris has 47% base status chance, while Ogris has 35%. That's a lot of status chance. Just 1 +60% elemental mod would make it 75.20% status chance before multishoot. 

[Sylonus]

Do some testing and you'll find out that most of what you just said is completely wrong in terms of kill rate. Opticor Vandal is a direct DPS increase on the Opticor, and you absolutely can and should build them the same way outside of one mod slot, it's "sidegradey" in some respects, (per-shot damage which only matters in terms of a few specific buffs like Void Strike) but overall, it's a direct DPS increase, Kuva Ogris is not, not remotely.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

Do some testing and you'll find out that most of what you just said is completely wrong in terms of kill rate. Opticor Vandal is a direct DPS increase on the Opticor, and you absolutely can and should build them the same way outside of one mod slot, it's "sidegradey" in some respects, (per-shot damage which only matters in terms of a few specific buffs like Void Strike) but overall, it's a direct DPS increase, Kuva Ogris is not, not remotely.

Did you test Kuva Ogris as a status weapon? What is the innate bonus damage on yours? Apparently Nightwatch Napalm isn't working on Kuva Ogris at the moment, don't know if its intended. And cold damage is not good on status weapon. Primed Bane of Grineer and gas damage might be a good replacement for Nightwatch Napalm, for example.

Mind you that his innate bonus damage is radiation, which has no bonus on heavy gunner, had he gotten toxin instead, it would further increase the damage of the gas procs, which would be augmented by the primed bane of grineer,

[Sylonus]

Nightwatch Napalm didn't work when I was testing (I'm not sure if it's been fixed yet?), however when it does it will most likely be the right mod to use due in the situations I care about to the residual guaranteed aoe heat proc (which doesn't rely on the weapon's status chance) I figured it only fair to compare the actual use cases.

Edit: And yes, I absolutely tested Gas on both weapons and varying degrees of status, it's best status for the Ogris as I mentioned, and is the reason I chose to get Toxin on mine.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

Nightwatch Napalm didn't work when I was testing (I'm not sure if it's been fixed yet?), however when it does it will most likely be the right mod to use due in the situations I care about to the residual guaranteed aoe heat proc (which doesn't rely on the weapon's status chance) I figured it only fair to compare the actual use cases.

Edit: And yes, I absolutely tested Gas on both weapons and varying degrees of status, it's best status for the Ogris as I mentioned, and is the reason I chose to get Toxin on mine.

Did you use the riven? What about Primed Bane of Grineer? What was the build?

[Sylonus]

I tested the 4 levelled rivens I have:

And primed bane mods yes, and on 165 Heavy Gunners as opposed to his 150, and killed quicker than his video, but not as quickly as my normal Ogris, I'm not saying the Kuva Ogris can't "do fine", I'm just saying it's weaker than it's older cousin, especially when accounting for rivens.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

I tested the 4 levelled rivens I have:

And primed bane mods yes, and on 165 Heavy Gunners as opposed to his 150, and killed quicker than his video, but not as quickly as my normal Ogris, I'm not saying the Kuva Ogris can't "do fine", I'm just saying it's weaker than it's older cousin, especially when accounting for rivens.

Hey. The Satidex one is Multishoot and status chance, right? Did you try that one with Primed bane? I'm asking because it isn't maxed out. Also, what about without rivens with a status gas build with primed bane compared to your usual Ogris build?

[(PSN)MaSiuChu]

I don't know what's the point keep "balancing" the weapon usage in a PVE game. 

Somethings gonna be OP and become a meta. It's because players want efficiency. 

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, (PS4)MaSiuChu said:

I don't know what's the point keep "balancing" the weapon usage in a PVE game. 

Somethings gonna be OP and become a meta. It's because players want efficiency. 

There's a difference between great and OP, Catchmoon was OP, Tigris Prime is great, but suffers against crowds, for example.

[Sylonus]

2 minutes ago, HolySeraphin said:

Hey. The Satidex one is Multishoot and status chance, right? Did you try that one with Primed bane? I'm asking because it isn't maxed out.

It is multishot and status chance, I didn't test it as it has a D polarity, primarily, same reason it's not levelled, but I can tell you it won't win out.

[HolySeraphin]

Just now, Sylonus said:

It is multishot and status chance, I didn't test it as it has a D polarity, primarily, same reason it's not levelled, but I can tell you it won't win out.

If you say so. I'm going to sleep now, it is 2 AM where I live. Thanks for your time and patience.

[(PSN)MaSiuChu]

Just make riven untradable. Problem solved. Keep changing the disposition system makes players who just unveil riven for self-use like me suffer. 

[Kboy2608]

4 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

No, base stats do make a difference. 

Lets say that 1.0 dispo gives +150% crit chance and +120% crit damage.

For Tiberon Prime it gives +42% crit chance and +3.6x crit damage. 

Normal tiberon gets +39% crit chance and 2.8x crit damage

While the crit chance difference is marginal, the crit damage is huge. And while the minor buffs don't make a difference on their own, after all 3% higher crit wont make a difference, everything else combined makes a big difference, especially reload speed and magazine size.

Now, let's take a look at this scenario: 1.44 for Tiberon and 0.85 for Prime (considering 1.0 as +150% crit chance and +120% crit damage) 

Normal Tiberon: +56% crit chance and +4.14x crit damage = 82% crit chance and 6.54x crit damage.

Prime: +35.7% crit chance and +3.06x  = 63.7% crit chance and 6.06x crit damage.

Yeah, prime loses on these stats and it still has -19% lower fire rate, but +40% magazine size and +12% reload speed, which affects DPS, and considering that both have very low magazines (42-30), you will be reloading a lot. So even though the regular Tiberon has a better riven in this scenario, the Prime will surpass it on the DPS run simply because it will be able to fire more bullets for longer periods of time, and reload faster.

And please consider that this is quite an extreme scenario. If normal version had 1.30 dispo the numbers would be:

Normal  Tiberon: 76.7% crit chance and 6.14x crit damage.

 

Total time for normal tiberon to bust out 210 bullets: 210/9.09 + [(210/30 -1)* 2.26] = 36.67 s
Total time for tiberon prime to to bust out 210 bullets: 210/7.38 + [(210/42 -1)*2] =  36.45 s
=> As you can see, the difference is very small 
=> This part  "Yeah, prime loses on these stats and it still has -19% lower fire rate, but +40% magazine size and +12% reload speed, which affects DPS, and considering that both have very low magazines (42-30), you will be reloading a lot. So even though the regular Tiberon has a better riven in this scenario, the Prime will surpass it on the DPS run simply because it will be able to fire more bullets for longer periods of time, and reload faster" is bullsh*t
=> The normal tiberon clearly outperform tiberon prime in terms of dps.  Not to mention you did your math based on a riven that strongly benefit the most superior stats of tiberon prime, CD. If you use another stats combo on riven (dmg, multi or sthg) the difference is even bigger! 

[DConagher]

2 hours ago, (PS4)MaSiuChu said:

Just make riven untradable. Problem solved. Keep changing the disposition system makes players who just unveil riven for self-use like me suffer. 

And people who unveil for selling, in your system, would suffer. 

[(PSN)MaSiuChu]

5 minutes ago, DConagher said:

And people who unveil for selling, in your system, would suffer. 

but it is the purpose of DE, tune down the crazy riven market

[DConagher]

7 hours ago, VolatileAcidity said:

I said it a long time ago during one of the riven dispo changes, and I'll say it again. Rivens are just plain lazy. They are late game material, and there exists better solutions than what is currently in place. For instance:
 

1.) Locking riven stats. You are able to lock certain stats during rerolls, or even just locking a single stat, rest are random. Upon locking, the riven becomes un-tradable, and make it so preferred stats are only really achievable upon locking stats. For instance, a status type bonus will always come with a status percent negative until locking, or a crit chance will come with a negative crit damage, +damage -multishot, etc. Once locked, you can reroll and have higher chances at better stats. "God-roll" rivens will almost cease to exist, and will put the riven market in a much healthier state, where players trade maxed but unrolled rivens, or just plain straight rivens that aren't maxed. Even better, you can make it so you can only trade unrolled rivens, and those rivens stats will only be revealed on first roll. Paired with locking stats, players will be more enthused about getting good stats for less-used weapons. At least I would be.

2.) Bumping stats of less used weapons slightly every now and then, a percent of crit chance here, a percent of status chance there, maybe come damage increases, etc. Less used weapons may find a use when paired with a riven if their stats are at least usable. 5% crit chance with 10% status chance is not really ideal, and rivens (usually) cannot fix that. I'm not saying "make the regular weapons equal to the prime variants". Far from it in fact. Minor increments might see players experimenting with different builds, and if you see a healthy use for that weapon, stop buffing it.

3.) As stated by others, toss a 1.0/1.1 dispo on all rivens, standardize them. I'm in opposition of this change unless other changes are made to control the riven market, as 1.0/1.1 still gives "God-roll" rivens and will keep the market toxic (unless that's what people prefer, I don't particularly care as there are weapons that simply outperform other weapons with "god-roll" rivens, so the community can deal with that hehe. My trusty Tigris Prime will do me well)

Nerfing rivens just upsets those that put in the time and effort (yes, I said effort, kuva survival isn't all that fun tbh, but that's just me) to get those rivens. Of course others opt for the trade chat for rivens, but I'm not touching that filthy thing. Absolutely disgusting.

Anyways, long story short, as these things are late game content, I don't see the issue of them being strong in a PVE game, as long as it isn't game-breaking and there is a way to limit the use of them through the 3 methods above (or other good ideas that may have been mentioned in this thread/previous threads). We've seen balance with other weapons, and while it isn't always successful, it is usually at least enough to mix up the meta a bit here and there.

Concerning your 1-2-3 points:
Locking rivens has some interesting points with it- I do like the idea of locking rivens for personal use, preventing their sale and locking in their stats. However, the conflicting negative idea is kinda pointless, especially if the intention is to be able to "lock in" a crit roll and then reroll the neg off it and use it for personal use. I get the idea behind it, but the extra roll is unnecessary. In addition, though DE would never add it, I would like the stats to remain permanent if locked- Even through Dispo changes.
Bumping the stats of lesser used weapons I'd disagree with, simply because for the most part, a good enough damage riven can make these weapons that lack status and crit at least usable. 

Tossing a 1.0-1.1 dispo on all rivens is a terrible idea. You stated yourself that there are weapons that simply outperform other weapons, and that your Tigris prime will do you well. Comparing and equalizing a Tigris Prime to a Strun or Kohm doesn't make sense. 

I would also like to add that just because you disdain the swamp-pit that is trade chat doesn't mean there aren't those of us that actually enjoy trying to trade and sell wares, even if we do have to deal with some toxic people to do so. 

My suggestion, as a "dirty black market riven dealer" of sorts, is that if you want balance and meta shifts, change the weapon. Look at the catchmoon. Dispo nerf after dispo nerf, people kept using it. It wasn't until this recent fall off nerf, which while HARSH, was somewhat needed, that the kitgun lost its place in so many peoples main slot of the arsenal. +, these changes don't account for people who use weapons without rivens, and still get more than powerful performance in some instances, the Tigris being a *prime* example.

 

A weapon riven price, in my opinion boils down to the factors of the following:

• Hype (of the weapon)
• Power (of the weapon)
• Usage (popularity) (of the weapon)
• Stat Alignment (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Grading Value (of the riven)
• Impact of the Negative (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Sought after Requirements EG, Status Kohm (Of the riven, to the weapon) 

Maybe its just me, but I see a lot of things relating more to the weapon itself than the riven. *Maybe, just maybe*, rivens aren't the real problem here.

[DConagher]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)MaSiuChu said:

but it is the purpose of DE, tune down the crazy riven market

I've been wondering what DE's true intentions were with some of these disposition changes, as honestly the market has been the only thing that has been getting the "nerf" in these tweaks.

What's crazy to you is Tuesday to me, and if you take the time to learn about how Rivens actually work, study what it is you're looking for (Off sites like Semlar.com , for example), and actually bother to observe what people are selling *and why* they're asking what they're asking, it might seem less crazy to you. (This is directed at anyone confused by the riven market, not just you MaSiu!)

Example: You pull a rubico riven out of a sortie reward. You know what kinda stats are good on the rubico, and surprise, it happens to have CC/CD/MS/-zoom (Crit chance, Crit Damage, Multishot, with a negative to zoom if you don't commonly speak the shorthand of stats!). You are not physically capable of getting a much better riven than that for the Rubico, performance wise. Maybe you roll rivens, so you have some idea whats good/not good on various weapons.

Not only that, you might even have a rather high grading (That is to say, if the riven could roll between 40-100 and you roll a 90, that would be a rather *high grade* riven- Higher area of the variable %- again, mainly something that comes up in selling rivens.)

Now, factoring in the matter you have a VERY good riven with an above average grading for a very powerful weapon, first decide if you're going to sell it, and then what it might be worth. Other people are probably still selling ***bad*** rubico rivens (Terrible stat rolls, rolled a bunch of times to no avail, and maybe not even maxed) for in the 750 range. Your riven is a LOT better than those rivens.

A "decent" one, maybe a CC/Dmg/neg riven with low grading or a rather annoying neg, might even see 1k-2k in terms of price-point.
Your riven is still better than that.

It would not be wrong to call your riven in this scenario a *god roll* because it has basically ideal stats with good grading. Because of those factors, *and the weapons popularity and role as an Eidolon Hunter's weapon of choice, it wouldn't be *cheap* by any stretch. If you list it for what you'd consider fair, even with all those boons, at lets say 4,000 plat (and most people still say that's too much, at multiple hundreds of dollars worth of purchased plat), you'd probably have buyer after buyer wanting your riven. Some people would be able to offer you more, maybe even up to 5k or 6k, because they WANT your riven. Whatever you sell your riven for, Timmy down the street should expect at least/around that much if he pulls a MS/CC/CD/-zoom rubico riven, because for most intensive purposes, they're very similar rivens.

Lets flip the script a bit- You have a rather powerful riven for a lesser used weapon, sans whatever you want, but I'll say the Grinlok. Now, the Prisma Grinlok is not a *weak* weapon, but its not popular or effective on Eidolons. So a "god-roll" riven with ideal stats and good grading is still going to be more "reasonable" in terms of price point, because of its lack of popularity. 

A weapons stupidly high cost for rivens boils down to the factors of the following:

• Hype (of the weapon)
• Power (of the weapon)
• Usage (popularity) (of the weapon)
• Stat Alignment (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Grading Value (of the riven)
• Impact of the Negative (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Sought after Requirements EG, Status Kohm (Of the riven, to the weapon) 

MOST of the Riven value and use links directly back to the weapon. If the weapon isn't great, even a God-Roll riven for it will probably still be rather cheap, compared to even a bad riven for a weapon with more potential. 

I don't know if that helps, but for the most part, the Riven Market of trade chat isn't so much crazy! Mainly, it boils down to sellers are often overestimating the value of what they have because buyers always seek to pay the lowest they can (3rd rule of Acquisition if you're a Treckie; Never pay more for an Acquisition than you have to). A seller should realistically expect to make as much as they can off a sale, but this is seen as greedy, while a buyer seeking to pay as low as they can is seen as "savvy". Its the reason I personally love to haggle!

Tl;DR: do a bit of research into what makes rivens tick- Maybe you roll them for personal use, but it'd make a lot more sense to you (and some of the others in this thread i'd imagine) why people ask what they do price wise based on the factors above. Sellers are motivated to sell high by the same reason you or other people might be motivated to buy low. 

Hope that clears things up!

Final little note, again not directly related to MaSiuChu: You can get to hundreds of dollars worth of currency flipping prime parts if you have to- Entirely in-game, with not a penance spent on prime access or anything else. Its for that reason I don't consider people asking thousands of plat to be insane, depending on what they're selling. Its not hundreds of dollars of your money, its currency you've ground and earned- It should matter little more to you than buying things off an in-game auction board with farmed gold or silver. 

[psycedelic]

This is Good news 

[DConagher]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Tekikko said:

After reading the comments in the forum, I noticed that most of the players, who seem to be expert economists and game designers, predict a collapse in the purchase of platinum and therefore of financial revenue for DE.

In truth they know very well that the one to collapse will be their platinum balance sheet.

And this simply because all the rivens for the next primed version of weapons (Daykiu, Cornith...) that are in their stock, which have probably bought at ridiculous prices from noobs, are worth probably half of the budgeted gain (probably less).

And this is freaking them out...

Great work DE... Keep it up!!!

I'd agree with you in that its unlikely platinum sales will drop, probably because most of the time people aren't buying plat solely to acquire rivens with. However, I would disagree with you in that people are being salty with these changes purely on the economic basis alone, or perceived threats to profit gained.

While I will admit I disdain these new changes for what it's done for the market, I've not been someone trying to cash in on the next weapon to be primed. My lot in game has been mainly oriented around acquiring people rivens they seek, and selling/trading rivens for people who don't like/don't understand the riven market as it is, and gaining profit for my time or effective sales. Labeling the market a bunch of greedy neckbeards isn't *really* fair. I'll agree the market isn't the friendliest, but it certainly isn't the worst I've been a part in. I made a post not far back from where this reply will end up on the thread, that might help explain why something is the way it is, if the market seems too complicated and crazy at first glance!

There is a lot more to it than the "evil seller being greedy by asking a fortune for his/her riven"- is it fair for a buyer to always want to pay as low as they can, but not for a seller to always ask as much as they can? Its two sides of the same coin.

My dilemma with these changes is not so much in the sake of it'll make selling rivens even more difficult, its that now I see very little reason to acquire, level, and use a variant of a weapon I enjoy, if my riven is only going to be worse by doing so. Even if they hold true to the statement made by Connor, in that they don't "intend" to make the variant worse and/or pointless with these changes; unless the variant gives me exactly what I want in the weapon to the degree I'm ok with the riven and by extension the weapon possibly being worse, the only "reason" to progress is mastery, and mastery is kinda pointless right now, especially beyond 16.
 

[-Fatal-]

From "dispo discussion to prices of rivens" 

Guess people miss the goal of this thread its about the dispo and we need feedback for de how to solve?! One thing will not change the demand for certain rivens = price stays the same maybe tanks a little, "godly rivens" will always hold there price. Bc people are "ready" to pay the price! Why? Bc we have way to much plat in the rotation thats why. 

 

With thar said, a diffcult family group will be cernos. Cernos prime has shootgun status and rakta and cernos has normal sc, what is the idea about exceptions like that??? There are few niche riven which need a careful treatment like neg mag vectis or bp shotgun rivens and detron bp. There is more to this idea. "prices should be the last problem rn" 

[DConagher]

15 minutes ago, -Fatal- said:

From "dispo discussion to prices of rivens" 

Guess people miss the goal of this thread its about the dispo and we need feedback for de how to solve?! One thing will not change the demand for certain rivens = price stays the same maybe tanks a little, "godly rivens" will always hold there price. Bc people are "ready" to pay the price! Why? Bc we have way to much plat in the rotation thats why. 

 

With thar said, a diffcult family group will be cernos. Cernos prime has shootgun status and rakta and cernos has normal sc, what is the idea about exceptions like that??? There are few niche riven which need a careful treatment like neg mag vectis or bp shotgun rivens and detron bp. There is more to this idea. "prices should be the last problem rn" 

Prices are part of the main reason everyone I've met has disliked the riven market as a whole.  As for the "disposition" tweaks and prices not necessarily being related, or demand not changing......Let me phrase it this way: You buy X thing for a sum of Gold. The devs then make X thing better/worse. Is it still worth the same sum of Gold? Because it is different, are more/less people going to want it? is it now the best in slot? These are the questions that must be asked by a meta every time a patch-notes arrive. 

Dispo tweaks and the markets feedback to them are inherently related, and changes to a game, in the opinion of this tenno, should not be made without due consideration to the fallout, market or gameplay wise. its also the reason in multiple of my posts on this thread, I make note of the idea DE should nerf the WEAPON not the riven. This will detract the inherent involvement of price to a degree, as the focus is on the balance of the weapon, and the Riven is simply along for the ride (See, my little bullet list on how I've seen rivens valued).

Prices are an important part of this discussion because a grind-y "MMO" styled game without a market is not healthy. Hindering or injuring your own market to acquire balance may not be the best decision, or conversely it may be too little. 

A good example of this is the avoidance of nerfing the Kohms disposition, back in the first round of disposition tweaks. However, it is now we see some of the negatives of this decision, with systems like the one brought up in this post from DEConnor; the Devs are to the point of breaking up the disposition of the family of weapons to try and "balance" certain rivens more effectively. 

My retort to this, and "feedback for de how to solve?!" as you put it, is that, *again*, instead of messing with the rivens, NERF. THE. WEAPONS.

If you so desperately want the game balanced, and we simply MUST have less effective guns, then just get it over with already. Nerfing the rivens will do so little by comparison to actually balancing the weapons, but gets much much less disapproval because rivens are a system not fully understood and utilized by many people (Hence, my listing of how rivens work, and sites to gain education from in regards sans topic). 

In short, give more education to the player-base how rivens work, and make the balance changes in places where it will actually matter.

[VolatileAcidity]

1 hour ago, DConagher said:

*snip*

A weapon riven price, in my opinion boils down to the factors of the following:

• Hype (of the weapon)
• Power (of the weapon)
• Usage (popularity) (of the weapon)
• Stat Alignment (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Grading Value (of the riven)
• Impact of the Negative (of the riven, to the weapon)
• Sought after Requirements EG, Status Kohm (Of the riven, to the weapon) 

Maybe its just me, but I see a lot of things relating more to the weapon itself than the riven. *Maybe, just maybe*, rivens aren't the real problem here.

Wonderful points, and I can't help but agree with most, if not all of them. Weapon balance is a thing I mentioned, and I would love to see more of it. I did mention that in my 2), though in my absent mindedness I forgot to mention minor nerfs to strong weapons. I do enjoy a good riven here or there, as it spices up gameplay,

 

As far as my disdain for trade chat goes, it's mainly focused on the riven dealers (there are good ones out there, but you only really see the bad ones spamming chat with absolutely ridonculous prices). Everything else is a-okay in my books, as it is far more regulated. Problem with rivens is regulating them, as you can't really pin a price to something that is random (and subject to change). I stand by my point saying rivens are a problem, but it isn't a singular problem. It is a cacophony of problems built up over time, which were ignored for far too long. I had also stated that I disagree/wouldn't opt for option 3, the standardization of rivens. Rather, I would prefer the slight buffing/nerfing of weapons, option 2, or locking rivens to the account, option 1.

Rather than setting those in stone, they were more of a basis for a solution, something to build upon. By no means are my "solutions" correct. Far from it in fact. I'm just putting up possible steps to improve the current system.

If I had to make an analogy, as someone in comp sci, it's like leaving some bugs in your code. Perhaps your code works, but only temporarily/for certain cases. You add more code in, and now your code went from O(n²) to O(2ⁿ) and you've got more bugs. Fixing one bug won't solve all your problems, but at least it's a step in the right direction...

 

At the end of the day, if I had to stress on one thing, it's the lack of respect to the hours of time invested in the game going to (basically) nothing. Once a riven hits that point where a regular mod does nearly the exact same thing, those hours you put in (or for others, perhaps it's money) just feel like a waste.

Anyways, it's late, and I've got an AVR Assembly assignment to work on over reading break. It's great to have a discussion with peeps here and see the various opinions. Thank (most of) you for contributing to a decent debate/discussion.