Master Thief should rotate to being Parazon

[JohnMorte]

Let it allow you to open a hacking prompt to open a locker. And should become fully interactable with Master Key.

Also, Master thief should also give a random locker on the map instance a big payoff reward, to incentivize exploration instead of the usual blazing through a level.

Just some thoughts to buff a massively outdated mod that used to be a fun alternative to mindlessly going through the index or abusing the Secura Lecta.

[ES-Flinter]

First we would need primed master thief, to make it useful.

[Steel_Rook]

First make Master Thief a Parazon mod, then release a Primed Master Thief later down the line. Let's be perfectly honest here - lockers themselves are nowhere near as popular or as valuable for there to be this many locked ones. Giving us an easier way to open the locked lockers without having to sit there for 15 minutes as a dog refuses to scratch on them might make people more willing to bother opening them.

Then again, I wouldn't be exactly upset if we just lost the "locked locker" system entirely. Make all of them unlocked and skip an unnecessary complication that nobody but me cares about anyway.

[ciTiger]

47 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

First make Master Thief a Parazon mod, then release a Primed Master Thief later down the line. Let's be perfectly honest here - lockers themselves are nowhere near as popular or as valuable for there to be this many locked ones. Giving us an easier way to open the locked lockers without having to sit there for 15 minutes as a dog refuses to scratch on them might make people more willing to bother opening them.

Then again, I wouldn't be exactly upset if we just lost the "locked locker" system entirely. Make all of them unlocked and skip an unnecessary complication that nobody but me cares about anyway.

The fact you can't destroy lockers (but you can destroy containers) is already questionable because who takes the time to open all of them (if not low lvl or for NW)?

That said they don't drop anything remotely rare or am I missing something? 

[Steel_Rook]

2 minutes ago, ciTiger said:

The fact you can't destroy lockers (but you can destroy containers) is already questionable because who takes the time to open all of them (if not low lvl or for NW)? That said they don't drop anything remotely rare or am I missing something? 

They don't need to be destructible, but making the interaction distance to open them longer (say, 3-5 meters) wouldn't go amiss. And lockers are one of the most common places to find Ayatan Stars, which is where I've found the bulk of my Ambers.

[ciTiger]

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

They don't need to be destructible, but making the interaction distance to open them longer (say, 3-5 meters) wouldn't go amiss. And lockers are one of the most common places to find Ayatan Stars, which is where I've found the bulk of my Ambers.

Longer distance to open them and open multiple at the same time then... It isn't practical to go opening them one by one that's for sure.

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, ciTiger said:

Longer distance to open them and open multiple at the same time then... It isn't practical to go opening them one by one that's for sure.

Speak for yourself. I don't open every locker every time, but I open most a lot of the time if I'm solo. If you're running right by lockers anyway, it's trivial to turn a little bit and hit Use as you run by if you set the key to something more sensible like F instead of X. I have amassed thousands of stars this way so I'll never be one of those people complaining that I can't get enough stars to fill my statues.

[ciTiger]

1 minute ago, Hobie-wan said:

Speak for yourself. I don't open every locker every time, but I open most a lot of the time if I'm solo. If you're running right by lockers anyway, it's trivial to turn a little bit and hit Use as you run by if you set the key to something more sensible like F instead of X. I have amassed thousands of stars this way so I'll never be one of those people complaining that I can't get enough stars to fill my statues.

If we are going this way "Speak for yourself" back at you then...

In the "high lvl" maps I do mostly anyone is doing this because simply it isn't practical or time worthy and the rewards don't justify it.

Of course my sample is small but it's what I do and see most of the time.

 

[peterc3]

Just take a mod and completely change what it does, while adding (relatively) new gameplay to otherwise "done" objects. You might as well ask for a new mod, because it wouldn't be any easier.

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, ciTiger said:

If we are going this way "Speak for yourself" back at you then...

In the "high lvl" maps I do mostly anyone is doing this because simply it isn't practical or time worthy and the rewards don't justify it.

Of course my sample is small but it's what I do and see most of the time.

 

Sure, go on a group on a high level mission, everyone is rushing (including myself) and getting stuff done for the most part. But there's still energy, stars, and stuff in there. And you know what, when I open a locker on a mission with rushers and a star falls out it's more often than not that people will run back and pick it up even if they're a room or two away.

But still, even if 95% of people on higher missions and in groups ignore lockers, there are people like me that still open some. And in solo I do even more. You do you and some other still open lockers. I mean the OP obviously spends time opening lockers too if they're willing to stop and spend a non-trivial amount of time hacking them like waiting on a companion to open some.

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, ciTiger said:

Longer distance to open them and open multiple at the same time then... It isn't practical to go opening them one by one that's for sure.

You don't need to open multiple lockers at a time. Rather, I'd suggest letting us open lockers by holding down the use key and walking up to them, rather than having to wait for the prompt to pop up. This, along with a longer interaction range and less strict facing checks should allow players to hold down a button and run past a row of lockers to open them all, rather than having to grind our faces into them and running into their edges.

And before anyone brings up technical limitations - this is exactly how picking up items off the ground works. Ever had issues finding the interact prompt for an Ayatan Sculpture? Hold down the Use key and keep running over it. Eventually you'll grab it as your character runs past the prompt. The same can be done for Lockers and it would REALLY simplify the process of opening them, potentially to the point of being worth bothering with for a large portion of players.

[JohnMorte]

9 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Just take a mod and completely change what it does, while adding (relatively) new gameplay to otherwise "done" objects. You might as well ask for a new mod, because it wouldn't be any easier.

Master Thief doesn't deserve to be dumpster-tier just because so many other mods are dumpster-tier. I'm fully of the mindset that lots of mods should be updated and buffed to at least not be completely trash to even consider. (Half the mods in this game are completely meme-tier. Warm Coat, anyone?)

And let's be honest: upgrading these mods should be no harder than adjusting a few lines of code.

[peterc3]

15 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

Master Thief doesn't deserve to be dumpster-tier just because so many other mods are dumpster-tier. I'm fully of the mindset that lots of mods should be updated and buffed to at least not be completely trash to even consider. (Half the mods in this game are completely meme-tier. Warm Coat, anyone?)

And let's be honest: upgrading these mods should be no harder than adjusting a few lines of code.

You aren't just asking for the mod to be buffed. You are asking to add hacking prompts to lockers. Also, to add a new type of locker.

Let's be honest: you have no clue what would be required.

[ciTiger]

On 2019-11-08 at 8:43 PM, Steel_Rook said:

You don't need to open multiple lockers at a time. Rather, I'd suggest letting us open lockers by holding down the use key and walking up to them, rather than having to wait for the prompt to pop up. This, along with a longer interaction range and less strict facing checks should allow players to hold down a button and run past a row of lockers to open them all, rather than having to grind our faces into them and running into their edges.

And before anyone brings up technical limitations - this is exactly how picking up items off the ground works. Ever had issues finding the interact prompt for an Ayatan Sculpture? Hold down the Use key and keep running over it. Eventually you'll grab it as your character runs past the prompt. The same can be done for Lockers and it would REALLY simplify the process of opening them, potentially to the point of being worth bothering with for a large portion of players.

I'm down with this, simple solution also I might add.

[JohnMorte]

On 2019-11-09 at 12:40 PM, peterc3 said:

You aren't just asking for the mod to be buffed. You are asking to add hacking prompts to lockers. Also, to add a new type of locker.

Let's be honest: you have no clue what would be required.

🙄

Quote

if masterthief.equipped = 1 then

{

generate.speciallocker = yes

speciallocker.spawn = medallion.spawn (footnote: medallion spawn is where syndicate medallions or caches spawn on tilesets)

lockers.hackable = yes

}

speciallocker.returnafterlooted = randomly assigned loot

there's some basic pseudo-code right there. as long as game code is not horrendously optimized it should be very possible to slide it in without much effort or even thought.

[Hobie-wan]

13 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

🙄

there's some basic pseudo-code right there. as long as game code is not horrendously optimized it should be very possible to slide it in without much effort or even thought.

Then there's creating a loot table for what could be in that locker and the percentages for those items as well as consideration for how useful those items are, if they throw the balance of things off where there's suddenly too much of thing X dropping. You need to create new artwork for the special locker or at least reuse the prompt from the Corpus moa cabinet hacks on the lockers. Or perhaps you reuse the effect on the rare chests? If the special lockers aren't obvious enough people will complain. Others will complain that the good loot is too rare and that the common stuff is useless and not worth the effort that went into finding and hacking the locker. Is it the same hack as a security panel? Will ciphers be allowed or not? Do these lockers hum like cashes or not? Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already?

That's just 10 seconds of off the top of my head thinking about it. As @peterc3 said, you don't really have a good idea of what's required.

[JohnMorte]

4 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Then there's creating a loot table for what could be in that locker and the percentages for those items as well as consideration for how useful those items are, if they throw the balance of things off where there's suddenly too much of thing X dropping. You need to create new artwork for the special locker or at least reuse the prompt from the Corpus moa cabinet hacks on the lockers. Or perhaps you reuse the effect on the rare chests? If the special lockers aren't obvious enough people will complain. Others will complain that the good loot is too rare and that the common stuff is useless and not worth the effort that went into finding and hacking the locker. Is it the same hack as a security panel? Will ciphers be allowed or not? Do these lockers hum like cashes or not? Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already?

That's just 10 seconds of off the top of my head thinking about it. As @peterc3 said, you don't really have a good idea of what's required.

you're thinking of a lot of extraneous, fringe information that has little to do with actually getting it going but rather minor details that are almost always figured out intuitively when developing. sorry that I have an idea with not a lot of guidelines to allow for maximum creativity in implementation. it ISN'T my job to literally design anything and everything imaginable for the developers.
-should it be detected by loot radar? (yes)

-should it use an effect similar to a cache? (yes)

-same hack as security panel? (come on)

-ciphers? (??????)

-Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already? (this sort of question is extremely pedantic to the point of rudeness)

Quote

-That's just 10 seconds of off the top of my head thinking about it. As @peterc3 said, you don't really have a good idea of what's required.

this sort of statement is like telling me that since I don't know why exactly Gordon Ramsey cooks so well, I don't deserve to eat.

[Hobie-wan]

3 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

you're thinking of a lot of extraneous, fringe information that has little to do with actually getting it going but rather minor details that are almost always figured out intuitively when developing. sorry that I have an idea with not a lot of guidelines to allow for maximum creativity in implementation. it ISN'T my job to literally design anything and everything imaginable for the developers.
-should it be detected by loot radar? (yes)

-should it use an effect similar to a cache? (yes)

-same hack as security panel? (come on)

-ciphers? (??????)

 

All of these things still need to then be implemented.

Quote

-Will you disallow them on missions that already have caches so that people can't fail to get all 3 caches if they're snoozing on the X of 3 counter on the screen and think they got all 3 already? (this sort of question is extremely pedantic to the point of rudeness)

No it isn't pedantic. People still ask where Baro is (not everyone is meming) when there's an email that you are forced to read if you log on when he's here, there's a marker that's clearly visible on the nav map, and you can click it from the alert panel to go to him, they have to consider that some people have less situational awareness than others.

Quote

this sort of statement is like telling me that since I don't know why exactly Gordon Ramsey cooks so well, I don't deserve to eat.

It is not at all the same. It just means you lack the knowledge to understand what's involved. If you don't know how to cook a 5 course meal like Gordon Ramsey you have the option of having someone else cook a fancy meal, you can make something simpler yourself, or you can go learn how to make a fancy meal. Saying you don't understand what's involved in adding something to the game just means just that at this time.

Going back to thinking about the problem versus implementation. Let's relate this to food since you brought food up. You can "intuitively" decide what you want to eat for dinner quickly. You can even make quick decisions on details like "I want chicken in it" and "no mushrooms because I don't like them". Even if the idea of what you want is easy to work out, actually getting to the point where you have food in front of you is harder than just thinking about it. You then either have to get ingredients and spices that you may or may not already have on hand and then go through the effort of preparing it. Or you need to decide on a restaurant that can make what you want, travel there, and then eat or bring it home.

Even before testing and balancing with feedback, adding something into the game is never just thinking about it for 2 minutes and coding it in for another 5 minutes.

So again, you vastly underestimate how much effort and thought would go into it.

[Educated_Beast]

Master thief should give the approximate location of dilrelect vaults (like when you get to hack a bounty supply crate that gives you general location of remaining crates), syndicate medallions, and other type searchable loot.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by Educated_Beast

[JohnMorte]

42 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Master thief should give the approximate location of dilrelect vaults (like when you get to hack a bounty supply crate that gives you general location of remaining crates), syndicate medallions, and other type searchable loot.  

I actually like that idea of giving it the ability to show on loot radar there being a special item nearby would be a good reason to take master thief. in this case special items would include stuff like ayatan sculptures, rare containers, syndicate medallions, and more.

[Hobie-wan]

On 2019-11-20 at 4:24 PM, Educated_Beast said:

Master thief should give the approximate location of dilrelect vaults (like when you get to hack a bounty supply crate that gives you general location of remaining crates), syndicate medallions, and other type searchable loot.  

This seems a more reasonable idea. I don't use master thief as I have all sorts of radar on my companion, but if it were to say put the big yellow circle like you get for hives and the Vallis citizens so you get a smaller area of the map to find the vault, that would be cool. I might even switch it for vault runs.

[JohnMorte]

On 2019-11-20 at 12:46 PM, Hobie-wan said:

-snip-

The reason I considered a major portion of your previous post to be rude is simply because you're asking me to put in far, far more thought than the developers themselves put into the game when adding content. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the game is good so far, but the major thing you're missing is that a LOT of content was developed over time rather than being instantly amazing. You're browbeating me and my suggestion because I didn't post a list of 300 contingencies to consider when adding a new, admittedly minor feature.

Yes, there is a baseline of effort required to add or adjust ANYTHING in this game. It doesn't mean when adding content you should be paralyzed from making changes. Its even better when 98% of the necessary resources to put my suggestion in the game are already present.

All this being said, I like @Educated_Beast's suggestion a lot and wouldn't be the least bit upset if it were implemented over my own personal suggestion.

[Hobie-wan]

5 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

The reason I considered a major portion of your previous post to be rude is simply because you're asking me to put in far, far more thought than the developers themselves put into the game when adding content.

It wasn't my intention be rude to you. I apologize.

You said "it should be very possible to slide it in without much effort or even thought." I wasn't saying you needed to think of everything, but that made it sound like you were implying it would be an easy change for DE to implement.

Anyway... maybe the "I think the vault is thataway" idea will get some traction.