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MystikNeko

How can you like the new melee?

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Even though I greatly dislike the Blood Rush formula change from total crit to base crit (Which meant my most used Rivens had to be rerolled because they now had a useless stat that didn't scale), I am greatly enjoying the new melee system because it has given me weapon variety and fluid combos you can link and chain to your liking. 

My favorite weapon stance in the game is Stalking Fan, yet I could not find it in me to use a scythe over a polearm, staff or greatsword because of the range issues. That has been addressed now, and I am very happy with the results. 

And it's not only scythes. I'm also using Nikanas now, and even Venka Prime without feeling like I'm handicapping myself. Weapon variety is fun. Not feeling like I'm bound to specific weapon classes at higher levels is a welcome addition. 

Edited by Jarriaga
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Much better combo flow, melee-mode is back, and more weapons are actually fun to use now. It's not perfect, but definitely a step or two in the right direction compared to last time, so I'm happy with it. The overall balancing/"nerf" is not something I've noticed at all in my regular 60-80min arbitrations runs at least. I mainly run quick status/hybrid-builds though that scale well. 

This is still not melee 3.0 btw, as it is still refered to as 2.999999. More changes/additions are coming. 

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52 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

Weeping wounds and is so powerful now that status chance is almost irrelevant, as long as it's not absolute dumpster tier. (looking at you Guandao) 

 

You don't like additional damage?

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I can like it cause I was not relying on crutch mechanics and am capable of accepting changes. 

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I personally could not care less about the changes to melee modding: melee mods were in a crazy state before, with many builds being notoriously abusive, so it makes sense that we'd arrive at a mellower state of affairs, even at the cost of some mod setups. What I take issue with, however, are the new movesets: on one hand, I think the new stances are a marked improvement over Melee 2.0, because there are far fewer attacks now that stop us in our tracks, or force us to move in awkward directions. However, those problems haven't gone away completely, because we still use rigid, canned animations, some of them still force movement in some direction, and to top it all off, the vast majority of the attacks and combos we've received I think are almost entirely useless. There is nothing our standing combo does that is meaningfully different from our moving combo, or from our aerial combo, or our standing aerial combo, or whatever. Even heavy attacks in this respect are redundant, which is why nobody uses them. Effectively, DE have put a ton of work into the wrong thing, delivering us hundreds of combos and animations that we have no real reason to use much over W+melee.

Personally, I would've much rather had a melee update that dropped all of the needless complication of combos, and instead updated the IK of melee so that we could aim our attacks and move completely independently of them as well. Beyond that, I would also like each melee weapon to have its own, single bespoke attack animation (which would be less work than the hundreds of combo animations we got), with certain melee weapons also receiving some special attack that did something markedly different from the baseline, such as radial CC or utility. Additionally, I would've liked blocking and ADS to be combined, with proper adjustments made, instead of having manual blocking shunted to some dedicated melee mode nobody cares about. Currently, the system we have still doesn't allow differentiation from one melee weapon to another, and still kind of clashes with Parkour 2.0 instead of complementing it, while also not meshing entirely well with gunplay as was intended. Thus, because these were the key problems with Melee 2.0 that the update had set out to solve, I wouldn't call Melee 3.0 an outright success, even if it is still a significant improvement.

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Again balance is not reached by nerfing "mechanic a" to the ground and buffing "mechanic b" up. It has nothing to do with not capable of accepting changes, disliking such a new system. Even if there are some new viable weapons, now there are many which aren't viable anymore. I don't understand the hate against some mechanics. It is a non competitve pve game. Don't play a specific weapon or mod it if you don't like but let all mechanics viable like spin4win and the range system. Just buff them all up to the same level.

Edited by tyreens
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Il y a 1 heure, MystikNeko a dit :

Hi. 

 

I just want to know from you why the heck you enjoy the new (IMHO game destroying) melee mechanic

Opinions from Inaros+Gram mains preferred since those players are fuked most

It's so much more fluid and confortable than before ?

Combos are viably inputable, you don't need to press block on the third hit of an inhumanly fast and unreadable attack chain ?

It's obviously a bit more balanced ?

Have you ever considered this : before, you could go to around X level of ennemies max, regardless of how many hours of mot it took you to get there. Now, that max lvl you can take down is reduced, but since melee is still stronger than guns overall, it just means it takes that much less time on Mot to get there. But the challenge is the same (getting one shot by a lvl 150 or 300 is the same, it's a one shot), what about actually engaging with the new challenge instead of crying ? Because if they just changed the stats of lvl300 ennemies to be those of current lvl150, you wouldn't even see a difference (assuming you were using gram and not copterax, this one has been really and rightfully nerfed). If that's the problem, you're just frustrated that you can't brag about taking down as high lvl ennemies as before, which is utterly meaningless, and crying for more power disparity between gears is just hurting the game.

And if you are complaining about this for regular play (because yes, hours of Mot, although you can have at it, is not intended play), stop whinning. It takes a bit more time for BR to kick in, big deal. All my old CO/BR weapons are fairing perfectly fine against lvl 90-120 lich missions, much stronger that my rivened tombfinger once BR has kicked in, which really doesn't take that long.

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2 hours ago, MystikNeko said:

But Lifestrike or what was its name got destroyed 

Life strike was destroyed when Healing Return and Magus Repair came out. 

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13 minutes ago, tyreens said:

 Just buff them all up to the same level.

That's less practical than even leaving it as is. The player power level of primary and secondaries couldnt even reach these levels and DE has no intention of jumping basic content from a lvl Max of ~120 to 400+ as a gear check because of a few edge cases. And it never solves the case of scaling issues like armor and meta statuses unless they just ignore it and start puting armor melting potential to all damage types. And you still simply hit a point frames are just OHKed without specific powers. 

They dialed it back. The power curve is slightly more stable than it was. "Challenging yourself" does not mean DE needs to make starting lvl 500 missions for the meta players that only they can do. 

Plus bring everything up to old spin to win levels is still just normalizing weapons. the same thing you are complaining about. Its just not your preferred direction of damage numbers.

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53 минуты назад, tyreens сказал:

I know that this kind of reply would come.

Of course it would, because what you are saying is flat out stupid.

53 минуты назад, tyreens сказал:

Just think about what balance mean. It means that every playstyle is as viable as the other.

No, it doesn't mean that. Balance is a quantitive value. It means how much some playstyles are more viable than others. I'm afraid this is your greatest mistake. So if we continue with this definition,

56 минут назад, tyreens сказал:

Is this now the case ? No. Was it before this update? No.

then this kind of estimation makes no sense. Instead we should put it like this: How much was it the case before? Very much. How much is it the case now? Considerably less.

So all your attempts to nullify this update's impact on balance suddenly fail spectacularly.

1 час назад, tyreens сказал:

So what just happened is that they removed the most quality of life mechanics without giving alternatives or balancing the whole system.

What quality of life? Spin to win with polearms and pressing 'delete' button on enemies with Redeemer P without any considerable alternative? Quality of life my a**.

1 час назад, tyreens сказал:

I'm not the biggest fan of the old system too but if i had to decide between two broken ones i would take the one which is more confortable to play.

Which is the current one, because pressing two buttons every second while lazily moving your mouse from side to side to not let that white triangle on the minimap hit the grey lines on the minimap (because the minimap is really the only thing I'm watching at) is not comfortable at least because it makes me fall asleep and that is not particularily what I want from playing a videogame.

And please don't start beating that poor 'endurance runs for 99999999 hours is everything that is worth doing in this game' dead horse, we all know this is not true and majority of game's content revolves around levels 50-80.

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Melee is just pointless now,because everything is ridiculously OP. It has zero weight now that DE nerfed the cc in all combos. And spamming heavy attack resets my combo which is pointless. No thank you, i'd rather have the old system back where I was rewarded for my skill.

DE dumbed down melee to a degree that I find insulting.

Edited by Countess_Hapmuhr
fdsa
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il y a une heure, tyreens a dit :

I know that this kind of reply would come. Just think about what balance mean. It means that every playstyle is as viable as the other. Is this now the case ? No. Was it before this update? No. So what just happened is that they removed the most quality of life mechanics without giving alternatives or balancing the whole system. I'm not the biggest fan of the old system too but if i had to decide between two broken ones i would take the one which is more confortable to play.

Utterly overused spin2win and BR/CO that basically forced everyone to use it, that would render any new game mode way too easy if not designed around => quality of life.

Yeah buddy, sure, such qol, such balance.

Balance : YOU don't understand anything to it. Absolutly perfect balance is very hard to come around. But this is all MUCH more balanced than before, there is now around a 50-70 level difference between what a subpar build and a minmax build can take on, before it was a 200-250 lvl difference at least. Because you have some weapons/builds stronger than others doesn't mean it is exactly as imbalanced as when that power gap was tenfold... If you wanna dance around the meaning of words, make sure you know what you're talking about.

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My melee gameplay is literally pressing e while running with my Nikana (Prime).

The newest update made it so it doesn't stop me from running at full speed, and re-added the iaido draw-strike as the forward+attack.

I like that.

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Because its good, weapons that i liked anyway are much better now. Feels much more responsive with the reach increases and damage.

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I'm enjoying it. Pressing mouse 3 is much less cumbersome than holding down E, reach change is nice, I'm still getting orange/red crits from BR and CO Lesion still works in sortie 3. On top of that, there's just more mods to play with, while reflex guard and enduring affliction still don't look like good choices other revamped mods like focus energy, killing blow and quickening seem quite usable. I am really interested in doing a 100% combo efficiency BR Hirudo build, brutal tide's AoE heavy attack looks great.

58 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Beyond that, I would also like each melee weapon to have its own, single bespoke attack animation (which would be less work than the hundreds of combo animations we got)

While I agree with everything else in your post (especially the blocking part, wish it was integrated into some combos), this is simply unfeasible. It'd mean making animations for every move of the hundred or so unique weapons we have, and then doing that again for each of the tens of stances there are. It'd be more animations than that of multiple beat 'em ups combined.

Edited by Murk119

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il y a 6 minutes, Countess_Hapmuhr a dit :

Melee is just pointless now,because everything is ridiculously OP. It has zero weight now that DE nerfed the cc in all combos. And spamming heavy attack resets my combo which is pointless. No thank you, i'd rather have the old system back where I was rewarded for my skill.

DE dumbed down melee to a degree that I find insulting.

Skill => You could be rewarded for your skill if you had the skill to not spam the one attack designed to not be spammed.

Dumbed down ? Yeah, giving you back and improving manual block, giving you other attack types to mix up with the more controlable combos, that is more dumbed down than spamming that one combo until CO, BR kick in and many enough slashs are proced... Doing one thing over and over again without any variation ever, that's skillfull, that's varied, that's not dumbed down at all...

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i think the new melee system is very fluid

i like the idea of switching attack during combo.

hold forward for sweeping attack, to kill trash mob
release w to finish a tanky enemies and hold right click + forward to move on to next target

but i do think that heavy attack still need some work, but overall the melee feels really good now

Edited by .OwOkin.
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If heavy attacks gave you sure footed and/or some damage reduction while executing them, it would be perfect.

Pressure point and true steal also need something added that interacts with heavy attacks/combo efficiency so that Condition Overload and Blood Rush aren't the only options.

For the rest, the current system feels sooooooo good.

Edited by Anarbitrio
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1 hour ago, DissentWomble said:

don't accidentally do finishers anymore just because they're blinded by inaros sand pocket thingy

Ooohh that's right I forgot about that! Same problem with exodia hunt, gonna have to break that back out.

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14 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

spamming heavy attack resets my combo

If only there were mods and a school for that? Hmmmm.. Think Big Brain GIF by Red Bull

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Just now, -QUILL_PETER- said:

If only there were mods and a school for that? Hmmmm.. Think Big Brain GIF by Red Bull

Also, not sure everything is meant to be spammed.

Edited by Anarbitrio
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il y a 1 minute, -QUILL_PETER- a dit :

If only there were mods and a school for that? Hmmmm.. Think Big Brain GIF by Red Bull

Weird, it notified me, but I only quoted that XD

True tho

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vor 34 Minuten schrieb Fallen77:

Utterly overused spin2win and BR/CO that basically forced everyone to use it, that would render any new game mode way too easy if not designed around => quality of life.

Yeah buddy, sure, such qol, such balance.

Balance : YOU don't understand anything to it. Absolutly perfect balance is very hard to come around. But this is all MUCH more balanced than before, there is now around a 50-70 level difference between what a subpar build and a minmax build can take on, before it was a 200-250 lvl difference at least. Because you have some weapons/builds stronger than others doesn't mean it is exactly as imbalanced as when that power gap was tenfold... If you wanna dance around the meaning of words, make sure you know what you're talking about.

Dude first you didn't read my posts and stop being offensive. I never said that pre update was the best thing i've ever seen. I said that i would prefer the pre update over the current because they are both utterly unbalanced. That is a subjective decision. I'm repeating myself: i don't demand perfect balance but this game is so utterly unbalanced in every way you can't be serious to say that it would render some game mods way too easy. Warframe is and will always be a brain dead grinder. You are wrong, you were never forced to play spin2win or co. This is a pve game witout any competion. You can play whatever you want. If you need the challange you could play with a level 1 skana without mods and nobody but you is suffering from it. If i want to play a range meta build and kill multiple enemys with spinning, so what ? What harm do you have from it? Right, none. It is just selfish to hate against a playstyle that other might be enjoying for a long time. I'm just against a new system that is nerfing some existing mechanics to the ground and rendering them useless. Every existing melee mechanic can have it's place in warframe. But the way DE tried to balance things in this update is a completly mess.

Edited by tyreens
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3 hours ago, MystikNeko said:

(IMHO game destroying) melee mechanic

So, being able to cancel combos in order to avoid death by animationlock (lookin' at you, Warfans), easier combos, ability to chain combos more effectively, and the new lift-status to stunlock enemies. Not to mention that melee weapons in general are much more lethal now. Even my frickin Skiajati (that Umbra Nikana) can shred level 100 bombards now.

 

How, exactly, is this game breaking? We finally got more than 2 viable melee weapons for high level content and you're complaining.

It must hurt to have your little Meta-bubble burst.

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