Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

[Corvid]

Just now, ChaosSabre said:

As I said. White knights will come in to squash anything negative bout the game.

And the instant you use that term unironically, you lose all right to complain about having an appellation applied to you.

[Corvid]

Just now, ChaosSabre said:

You just automatically dismissed my comment by saying ugh playtime doesn't matter. What do you know.

Wrong. I said that playtime doesn't make your opinion more valid. Because it doesn't. Make arguments based on relevant factors.

[Kaotyke]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

I prefer facts over your opinion. And the fact is that 2019 is the first time Warframe is losing audience over a year. The numbers are real.

Then you have your facts: Those words you said, have been said over and over. You can go and check the many Warframe is Dead/Dying threads we had in those very years I mentioned before. Many had those same mentions of "numbers" and "majority is leaving" and "Warframe is losing players".

You have been in these forums since 2018, you can check with anyone who has been here in the years previous of your if we had those threads, we did. So those are facts. They tend to appear whenever a big enough change happens, either positive or negative. Because there will always be someone who dislkes the change. Even the TvTropes page of Warframe had it in Trivia, but the mods noticed the patern and just put what I said above about changes.

Along with many others and yet... here we are.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, ChaosSabre said:

I had fun with it therefore you lose I win bye bye.

With an attitude like this, are you really surprised when people dismiss you out of hand?

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, ChaosSabre said:

That's what the responses were from other people in a nutshell.

That's why I said don't worry white knights will come in to squash all the complaints.

In other words, you act like a child, and are surprised when people call you childish.

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

With an attitude like this, are you really surprised when people dismiss you out of hand?

Pfff! This was the same response he had with me when I got tired of humoring his twisting words in a thread before New Years.

He will make you reply to him over and over and derail the thread and putting same measure of provocation in them.

Him calling you a White Knight for disagreeing with him and him in particular? Normal.

I think I remember you mentioning about people calling you that in a previous thread even though you were highly critical of DE's decisions before. Was it you?

[Corvid]

6 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Pfff! This was the same response he had with me when I got tired of humoring his twisting words in a thread before New Years.

He will make you reply to him over and over and derail the thread and putting same measure of provocation in them.

Him calling you a White Knight for disagreeing with him and him in particular? Normal.

I think I remember you mentioning about people calling you that in a previous thread even though you were highly critical of DE's decisions before. Was it you?

Indeed it was. My criticism is mainly focused on the Lich system (and in a broader sense, the overall state of balance in the game) at the moment. While Empyrean has flaws, I'm aware that it's also not a complete system (in fact, we knew it would be such months ahead of time when they announced the three phases) so I'm holding judgment for the time being.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Corvid

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

il y a 11 minutes, Kaotyke a dit :

Then you have your facts: Those words you said, have been said over and over. You can go and check the many Warframe is Dead/Dying threads we had in those very years I mentioned before. Many had those same mentions of "numbers" and "majority is leaving" and "Warframe is losing players".

You have been in these forums since 2018, you can check with anyone who has been here in the years previous of your if we had those threads, we did. So those are facts. They tend to appear whenever a big enough change happens, either positive or negative. Because there will always be someone who dislkes the change. Even the TvTropes page of Warframe had it in Trivia, but the mods noticed the patern and just put what I said above about changes.

Along with many others and yet... here we are.

Still Warframe is losing players.

[DatDarkOne]

This thread..

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by DatDarkOne

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Still Warframe is losing players.

13 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Those words you said, have been said over and over.

There is nothing more for us to talk about this topic then.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Kaotyke

[TearsOfTomorrow]

See, the exchange between ChaosSabre and Corvid is precisely the reason why taking seriously anything that is said on a forum, be it positive or negative, is absolutely impossible. The point is, you're both wrong: your arguments essentially amount to "I hate you for hating what I love" and "I hate you for not hating what I hate", both of which are childish and pointless, neither of which is ever going to accomplish anything, and why should it? You're not providing any data.

"I don't like this" is not data, just like "I think it's fine" is not data. "My friends stopped playing" is a statement that simply doesn't matter, just like "the game keeps trucking, you're just whining" is a statement that doesn't matter. The whole deal about white knights and black knights and grey knights and yellow knights and magenta knights and whatever the hell, all that doesn't matter.

We live in a world that's driven by money. Like it or not that's how it is: money is the only thing that matters, and as long as an IP is even so slightly profitable, it's not going to be killed off. Look at Star Wars, look at Pokemon, look at Yugioh, look at all the things that have existed for years and have recently received new and highly criticized content: no matter how many defended said content and no matter how many more decried it, the fact is it made money, and so the franchise is going to keep going, like it or not. And for Warframe it's going to be the same: it will never ever end, unless DE somehow goes FAR DEEP into red. But as long as it stays green, as long as it turns a profit no matter how small, it's going to keep going, because that's how companies operate nowadays. This is a simple fact which is universally true about all manners of products in all manners of fields.

Thus, the only thing that matters, the only thing that can be accomplished in a forum, is a discussion about things that can be improved, and that can only be set up by providing relevant data (and no, "I don't like it, therefore it sucks and the game is dead" does not qualify as "relevant data"). Which means that ultimately the very existence of this forum boils down to one simple question: since the product is not going away and all one can do is try and make it better, do you have relevant data to provide in order to do just that? Do you have solid facts that could prove taking the product in a specific direction would make it better and therefore more profitable? If the answer is yes, then start a topic and explain the data you found in details, make your arguments as compelling as possible, and provide solid facts to back them up.

And if the answer is no, then kindly get lost. Not a single word said in this topic so far means anything nor contributes anything to the product's development.

Welp, that was the honest opinion of someone who, for quite some time now, had been lurking without ever posting, and the reason why I was never posting (this is what, my second overall post? Third?) was precisely this kind of stuff, I just didn't want to be involved in the same kind of crap I used to see every day on the MtG forum, or on the Yugioh forum, or on the Fairy Tail forum, or on the Pokemon forum, or on the Digimon forum, or on the Star Wars forum, or on the D&D forum, or on the MCU forum, or on the DCU forum, or... Starting to sense a pattern yet?

Face it, people: your destructive opinions don't make you special nor particularly worthy of attention. Thousands of "reasons why the new thing is the worst thing ever and I'm done" topics are posted by thousands of people on thousands of forums every single day, and none of them matter at all. And posts blindly defending the developers and whining about people who do nothing but whine (ironically enough) are just as common, and matter just as much. The truth is, people who make such posts are not trying to help nor hinder the development of the product: they're just trying to make it about themselves, to make sure they get some attention.

[Fl_3]

Negativity is natural when a player base is disappointed when a companies latest efforts don't live up to their expectations.

That's pretty much it really.

All DE has to do is nail a few patches and fix the things that are making the players unhappy. They can't fix everything right away, or indeed fix everything, But, when you show people something and they're excited for what they see, for example, the 2019 Tennocon Railjack gameplay reveal and then drop the boring, grindy, unbalanced, RNG laden piece of trash with none of the promised features that we received just before Christmas, or the boring, grindy, RNG dependent Kuva Lich system before that you can understand why people are being negative.

That last couple of updates have been below the standard that people have come to expect from Digital Extremes, that's why they're unhappy with it.

The level of negativity will drop, it is dropping but not because things are getting fixed because DE is notoriously slow to fix their game, but because people are leaving to do other things. Some will come back, but not all of them, and for a live service game, that's a big problem, especially for one that openly admits that the new player experience needs to change because new player retention is so low.

My opinion for what it's worth is after New War, DE need to concentrate on fixing their game, to stop throwing out half finished content and spend the time to make Warframe into the game they told us it would be. Yes, it will cost them players if they don't keep throwing half finished content at us, but those of us who love this game will stay through until the end, and, when the game is finished, old players will return and new players will stay, and Warframe will be all the better for it.

Let 2020 be the year that Digital Extremes fixes Warframe.

[(PSN)Double991]

While I advocate being positive, there are genuine concerns being voiced on the forums.

With each hotfix of the new year, things are being fixed and yet some of the balance changes seem questionable which are a big deal.

If you aren't buying rush repair drones to repair your wreckage you're buying resource boosters instead so the underlying problem of the rush repair drone has not been alleviated. Putting it behind a 0.25% drop is also insult to injury.

Over here on PS4 at least we have the luxury of stocking up before the update hits.

[Oreades]

8 hours ago, (XB1)LordZonut said:

At the time I'm writing this, don't get me wrong, but most post I see are negative, or at least they aren't positive. Is this good or bad, cause this could mean good critique or bad game. Please don't say something like "Why does this matter?" I'm posting this just to satisfy my curiosity.

I'm not sure if someon has already covered it but one of the truths of the internet is that most of a games community will never visit the official forums and of those that do the lions share will be doing so to voice dissatisfaction where those who are satisfied will often not say anything,

That said, it isn't exactly not concerning..... just probably not quite as end of the world as people often make it out to be. 

[TearsOfTomorrow]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

While I advocate being positive, there are genuine concerns being voiced on the forums.

YES, EXACTLY. But if the one post detailing a legitimate concern is lost in a sea of 28394093924859 "this new thing is the worst thing and I'm done" posts, chances are it will be ignored just like those other posts will be ignored, simply because nobody's got the time to sort through that much toxicity to find the one piece of constructive criticism. THAT is the point I'm making here.

The people who are most damaged by random, childish flame fests such as the one that occurred in this topic are those who have actual concerns, because such people won't be able to make their voices heard as a result of everyone else screaming a lot louder about pointless things, drowning them out.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

because such people won't be able to make their voices heard as a result of everyone else screaming a lot louder about pointless things, drowning them out.

Which is exactly why I no longer bother to create any topics about things that concern me.  Last time I made a topic it got flamed to the high heaven by a couple of people just because they wanted to derail the topic intentionally.  

[Aldain]

8 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It's just general discussion 

Yep, that's the normal state of this place.

The only time we should start to panic is if it ISN'T half negative around here, because that would mean that we've been invaded by body snatchers.

[Marvelous_A]

It took like what, 1/10 the time for Empyrean to lose 50% of player count compared to U24.5 did @ Mar 2019?

But of course it's not like DE totally f**ked up 3 updates in a row, it's all on those "vocal minority" for complaining the game.

Screw the minority.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

It’s because the last few months of Warframe have been a ****show. Liches are nothing more than grind with no satisfactory reward attached to it. And DE using that template as a jumping off point for Railjack progression was a terrible idea.

Also Melee phase 2 hurt far more than it helped.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

because people always confuse general discussion with feedback for some reason. so the angry people come here cause they don't know where they should put their threads.

and there's always the obvious of happy people don't come here to complain. Like myself personally I've been happy with the update myself but I also haven't been trying to aggressively farm for and ephemera within like a month of the content drop cause that's how you burn yourself out.

[Ham_Grenabe]

Late the party, but motivated people post on forums. You're motivated to comment when something isn't working, and you have a complaint. 

The devs, I'm sure, take into account that the people who come with a complaint are usually a minority of the overall customer base.

However, motivated people also spread negative reviews much farther and faster than people who are generally happy with a thing, so it's in the interest of the devs to quickly and transparently address the complaints, either by fixing the problem or explaining in detail why they cannot or will not do so. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

4 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

Nerfing frames, gear and playstyles:
You can balance things, or you can nerf things because too many people complain. 

I will never be able to understand the mentality of the guy that says "Nerf that guy's stuff!  I know I can use it too, but I don't wanna, I want to use this stuff and I don't like that the other guys stuff is stronger than the stuff I'm using!"

So you recommend buffs instead of nerfs.  "but that's power creep!"  Or, you could look at it like this:  The Pyrana Prime is one of the few non-melee weapons that I've tried that reliably handles Empyrean ground enemies.  You could nerf it down to the level the Lato is, so that it's "In line with everything else" or you can bring the Lato up closer to meet it.  (it's an example, I know the lato is a starter weapon.)  It's only power creep when the devs can't do basic DPS math and buff something up way past everything else, not that they would do that *cough* melee *cough*

If literally anyone at DE could figure out super basic math they could see which weapons need to be brought up and by how much, so that we have options instead of constantly creeping power.

[Voltage]

9 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Usually the forum's negativity is based on the player attempting to whine their way to support for a change. Real change, however, happens in the feedback section.

I will paraphrase what @SordidDreams said in another thread when he quoted Letter13:

Given the frequency of developer comments on Reddit vs the Feedback section of the Forums, it's safe to assume Feedback is read just as often as any other section.

I follow every Warframe staff member here on the Forums, and [DE]George is the only person who frequently comments on feedback and bug threads related to audio with acknowledgement.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

It took like what, 1/10 the time for Empyrean to lose 50% of player count compared to U24.5 did @ Mar 2019?

But of course it's not like DE totally f**ked up 3 updates in a row, it's all on those "vocal minority" for complaining the game.

Screw the minority.

March?

*checks*

Ah, we got Exploiter, Hyldrin, NW2, Tennogen, Melee Phase 1, Buried Debths that month.

I would say it was a much bigger update than Railjack. Lots of farming in the cold.

[Proffebolter]

Since they introduced the issue of liches, many of the comments have been negative reviews. And when they put the Empyrean update on the Game Awards, that if it was there DE [Rebecca] that he was going to launch it ....... do you know what happened? The forum burned very negatively, because an update was released that basically were pure bugs and that you couldn't play decently. And the idea was to attract more people in the game, but they shot them through the butt. And with the issue of RNG and Grind, well ... it's that those who have been manifesting negatively are basically right. The issue of liches is that they basically didn't fix the problem. A system that basically does not reward the user, once you have all the weapons and most likely you have to make trade. You throw that content in the crap. When they could have put other things, to have a sustainable content. And that they will fix the issue of playability in that content, because it is very repetitive and tedious. And, yes ...... (pray to the God of Fortune)

Why do you think ....... that many people have left Warframe? It's basically, because there is no sustainable content. Look now with the Railjack, in the first week, there have already been players who took out the avionics, weapons, all the improvements, etc., etc. With 10/10/10/10 and more 10 when they take out the branch of Command.

 

Sad, but true.