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(PS4)SolarPhantom82

Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

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1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

Do you seriously think that one mod suddenly brought back a bunch of people.

Those who stopped playing the game for a long time, forgot about the existence of that piece of crap probably.

I certainly forgot that It's a thing. And I play almost daily. But that's just me.

Nah, not really. If we're being serious, it was probably the new kuva weapons and the lich changes that make them much easier to get. Grinding out half a dozen kuva brammas certainly kept me occupied for an unhealthy number of hours.

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Never really considered steam charts as a good reference for usage, 

But the reason is pretty obvious,

Primed chamber and prime vault together. 

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I see. Warframe players favor long stable content droughts to very controversial big updates. Or they play on dial-up and it takes 1 month to download controversial big updates.

EDIT: Oh wow, Counter-Strike people have collectively played the game for 42455 years. Thanks Steam Charts! The more you know! I propose Steam Charts use Wikipedia to tell us about happenings in prehistory to complement the "Hours played" column.

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4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Some factors

1. The once elusive Primed Chamber is available to the masses 

2. Prime Vault

3. Railjack at it’s current state is a lot more stable than at release, so people have starting to jump back in.

To piggyback on this, hating on Warframe becomes fashionable but tires quickly when players go out and test the market and realize the value of the game for all it’s faults.

Also, with recent devstreams the team has taken ownership of the fact that they overpromised and underdelivered across multiple fronts in 2019 and immediately set to working to change that with tangible results.

The Primed Chamber Mod, I believe, is part of a larger player retention/recapture strategy that started with The Plague Star event.  Plague Star was a Forma/wisp farm with a plague Zaws bonus. 

Take what’s popular based on past trends and bring it back.  

There is a business plan being implemented here to achieve critical mass as The New War approaches.  Primed Chamber re-invigorating the Ducat/Relic economy-farm and pulling players in for a day is just one part, as is Primed Vault, and Plague Star.

Based on this, what is next?  Thoughts?

Likely, it’s the Titania rework tied to another event with PAs.  My guess is a Primed Railjack Skin would be ideal here with Accessories. “Fae Prime Railjack skin along with Fae Prime Ephemera”.

Fin

 

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26 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Never really considered steam charts as a good reference for usage,

Why not?

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Make endless missions fun again!!! There’s seriously nothing to do in this game once you’ve gotten the latest gun or frame. I speak only of people who have like every item in the game.

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1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

Why not?

They tell us so very little.

Steamdb shows it better and actually gives you a real view on how active the game is. Number of players isnt really interesting if those numbers dont actually play, so median, avarage, min and top time played brings a better picture of the actual numbers. Though steam charts arent a complete disaster, it is better than looking at achievments to see how active a game is.

Regarding the raise in numbers currently, I'd say it is a mix of P-Star, kuva changes and primed chamber. P-Star brought in forma, kuva changes gave an option to effectively farm weapons we want, those two combined means alot of mastery farming or simply formaing the weapons you plan to use.

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1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

Nah, not really. If we're being serious, it was probably the new kuva weapons and the lich changes that make them much easier to get. Grinding out half a dozen kuva brammas certainly kept me occupied for an unhealthy number of hours.

Unhealthy might be the word. I finished a Lich last night, and then had nightmares about thrall missions. I’ll be taking a long break from Liches. 

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18 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Unhealthy might be the word. I finished a Lich last night, and then had nightmares about thrall missions. I’ll be taking a long break from Liches. 

Also note that I said it kept me "occupied", not "entertained". That's what DE seems to design the game toward these days, to just take up as much of your time as possible, with no regard for whether or not you're having a good time.

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Number of players isnt really interesting if those numbers dont actually play, so median, avarage, min and top time played brings a better picture of the actual numbers.

What else would they be doing? Just having the game running in the background while they watch youtube or something? I think even the simple concurrency graph is pretty telling, especially when you compare it to other games (e.g. Planetside 2, which came out at around the same time, what a night and day difference!).

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7 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

What else would they be doing? Just having the game running in the background while they watch youtube or something? I think even the simple concurrency graph is pretty telling, especially when you compare it to other games (e.g. Planetside 2, which came out at around the same time, what a night and day difference!).

No I'm talking about players logging in and logging out. Without a number regarding time played 100k players for instance is just 100k players, we dont know if 90k of those are replaced each 10 minutes since people just log in and out, or if they are replaced each hour to an hour and a half since people play that long on avarage. If it is case one, then the game needs to reconsider they approach, it it is case two the game is in a good state. Of course, case one can also be beneficial to some games, like those f2p titles that get funding etc. based on "unique" users. Since if you have 90% of your playerbase refreshed each 10-15 minutes you'll have massive amounts of hourly, daily and monthly unique users.

I'm not saying it is like either of those cases for WF, I'm just giving reasons why someone would possibly see steam charts as a poor reference.

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9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No I'm talking about players logging in and logging out. Without a number regarding time played 100k players for instance is just 100k players, we dont know if 90k of those are replaced each 10 minutes since people just log in and out, or if they are replaced each hour to an hour and a half since people play that long on avarage. If it is case one, then the game needs to reconsider they approach, it it is case two the game is in a good state. Of course, case one can also be beneficial to some games, like those f2p titles that get funding etc. based on "unique" users. Since if you have 90% of your playerbase refreshed each 10-15 minutes you'll have massive amounts of hourly, daily and monthly unique users.

I'm not saying it is like either of those cases for WF, I'm just giving reasons why someone would possibly see steam charts as a poor reference.

I'd question some of the assumptions you make in that. Steve has said numerous times that they want Warframe to offer "bite-sized" chunks of content, and that's why most missions take about five minutes. WF is totally intentionally designed to be played for a few minutes at a time, so people logging in, playing for ten minutes, and then logging out again is not at all bad or undesirable. Hell, that's exactly what I do when it's time to do the daily sortie.

Sure, Steam Charts doesn't give you the complete picture, and you can get more info elsewhere, but it does give you a good general overview of how the game waxes and wanes in popularity over time. It's basically a measure of "this many people bothered to log in this day". People saying things like "you can't tell me the game's in decline because SC is not a reliable source" are just deluding themselves.

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8 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I'd question some of the assumptions you make in that. Steve has said numerous times that they want Warframe to offer "bite-sized" chunks of content, and that's why most missions take about five minutes. WF is totally intentionally designed to be played for a few minutes at a time, so people logging in, playing for ten minutes, and then logging out again is not at all bad or undesirable. Hell, that's exactly what I do when it's time to do the daily sortie.

Sure, Steam Charts doesn't give you the complete picture, and you can get more info elsewhere, but it does give you a good general overview of how the game waxes and wanes in popularity over time. It's basically a measure of "this many people bothered to log in this day". People saying things like "you can't tell me the game's in decline because SC is not a reliable source" are just deluding themselves.

What assumptions? I said "I'm not saying it is like either of those cases for WF, I'm just giving reasons why someone would possibly see steam charts as a poor reference.".

Yes it gives some numbers, but it also lacks a large part of the playerbase in those statistics aswell as other important numbers needed in order to get a good view on actual concurrent numbers. What steam charts show arent the concurrent numbers.

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2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Why not?

Not a good indicator as they could just be logging in, seeing what's changed and logging out. 

Specifically for now, it takes whales less than a minute to get the ducats for the primed shot that is available. 

These individuals are not technically playing, they have logged in and will be logging out. 

And generally, It is also about how you can just idle away while getting a sandwich and it still shows you as playing. 

21 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I'd question some of the assumptions you make in that. Steve has said numerous times that they want Warframe to offer "bite-sized" chunks of content, and that's why most missions take about five minutes. WF is totally intentionally designed to be played for a few minutes at a time,

That's counter to his current implementation of the lich system. Which takes over 2 hours in average, I would suggest not to confuse the intent with the actual implementation, we all know what they say about the path to hell. 

22 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

. so people logging in, playing for ten minutes, and then logging out again is not at all bad or undesirable. Hell, that's exactly what I do when it's time to do the daily sortie.

I do not know if you are playing for 5 minutes or 10 seconds using steam charts, more parameters are needed which is why I consider it as lacking. 

26 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

.

Sure, Steam Charts doesn't give you the complete picture, and you can get more info elsewhere, but it does give you a good general overview of how the game waxes and wanes in popularity over time. It's basically a measure of "this many people bothered to log in this day". People saying things like "you can't tell me the game's in decline because SC is not a reliable source" are just deluding themselves.

I have not commented about any decline or of the game or its popularity, just that it is insufficient data. 

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we said rail would save wf 

nope 

so now are we praying new war saves the game and adds some meaningful content? 

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3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Nah, not really. If we're being serious, it was probably the new kuva weapons and the lich changes that make them much easier to get. Grinding out half a dozen kuva brammas certainly kept me occupied for an unhealthy number of hours.

This is what brought me back. 

I'm still ignoring Railjack to the point I'd rather go help treat cornavirus then play it. Not lying or a joke.

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26 minutes ago, VitalAmprex said:

we said rail would save wf 

nope 

so now are we praying new war saves the game and adds some meaningful content? 

Strictly speaking, the two seem to be pretty much the same thing.

Seems DE are going for a themed year of content approach, the logical extreme of the 'multi phase' approach. Basically, parcelling up all the individual elements of Railjack, and introducing them whilst also scaling up the Sentient threat over time. So we get the core of Railjack - base progression, all that noise - with the initial launch and then some time cleaning that up, and now it looks like we're getting 'Operation: Scarlet Spear' bringing Squad Link into the picture, likely with its own down time to clean up its inevitable issues. That's likely showing up quite soon as well, since we know they've got the assets they need, and AFAIK they usually release an event quite shortly after announcing it, as opposed to quests.

Time will tell if this is the right move, but it's certainly a change from what they were doing with, say, Fortuna.

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb JackHargreav:

 

 

Do you seriously think that one mod suddenly brought back a bunch of people.

Those who stopped playing the game for a long time, forgot about the existence of that piece of crap probably.

I certainly forgot that It's a thing. And I play almost daily. But that's just me.

My clan of 100 vets that haven't played much since Liches and next to nothing since RJ had around 80% of the members log in for the first time in around 1.5 months. So yes, primed chamber made them certainly login, bringing them back is another subject.

Now, this is my private sample size of close friends I've played with for the last 5-6 years, but I doubt it looks differently for any other clan with burnt-out vets.

If we consult the steamchart it looks similar to when DE launched RJ a jump from around 40k to around 70-80k. Will these people stay? Ofc not, but it certainly looks better than having a monthly average of 40k players in 2020 when we had around a 100k in 2019.

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I prefer content drought pre melee 2.99 era. Playing the game with severely nerfed meta melees and buggy/extreme grinding content is not just not fun, it’s torturing. Bring back the meta or melee 2.99, bring back fun factors, increase the guns damages by 300%, keep the warframe abilities that were deemed as hacks. Many players will come back. 

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

What assumptions?

The assumption that having a lot of people logging in for ten minutes would be bad. Though it's not really an assumption, you outright stated that.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes it gives some numbers, but it also lacks a large part of the playerbase in those statistics aswell as other important numbers needed in order to get a good view on actual concurrent numbers. What steam charts show arent the concurrent numbers.

What does it show, then?

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not a good indicator as they could just be logging in, seeing what's changed and logging out.

Yeah? So? That's still usage.

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Specifically for now, it takes whales less than a minute to get the ducats for the primed shot that is available. 

I didn't even have to sell any prime parts, I had enough ducats lying around to buy it outright. /brag

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And generally, It is also about how you can just idle away while getting a sandwich and it still shows you as playing. 

Yeah, but I don't think there are any stats that help you with that.

56 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

I'm still ignoring Railjack to the point I'd rather go help treat cornavirus then play it. Not lying or a joke.

I know the feeling. It's heartbreaking seeing all the artistic and technical expertise and effort that went into creating that game mode completely wasted by lackluster and misguided game design.

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2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

The assumption that having a lot of people logging in for ten minutes would be bad. Though it's not really an assumption, you outright stated that.

What does it show, then?

Can you atleast read all of what I wrote before answering? I even stated there are cases where the login/log off are beneficial to the game and gave one example out of many.

It shows the number of players at the specific moment. Concurrent is all of those numbers added up over a day, week or month, depending what concurrent number you are looking for. The actual concurrent number for the day is many many times higher than what we see on a chart. Black Desert's devs explained it well. They had released numbers shortly after their western release, it had at that point 100k players at any given point of the day. The forums rioted and thought it was bad. One of the CMs stepped in and explained that their concurrent number throughout a day was around 2 million at that point in time.

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10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Can you atleast read all of what I wrote before answering? I even stated there are cases where the login/log off are beneficial to the game and gave one example out of many.

Please don't be disingenuous. Yes, you gave an example of such a case, which you very carefully pointed out was not WF's case.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It shows the number of players at the specific moment. Concurrent is all of those numbers added up over a day, week or month, depending what concurrent number you are looking for. The actual concurrent number for the day is many many times higher than what we see on a chart. Black Desert's devs explained it well. They had released numbers shortly after their western release, it had at that point 100k players at any given point of the day. The forums rioted and thought it was bad. One of the CMs stepped in and explained that their concurrent number throughout a day was around 2 million at that point in time.

So you're saying peak concurrency is not in fact concurrency? I'll have to disagree with you on that too. That's like saying amps aren't a measure of electricity, only amp hours. Yeah, it's measuring a different aspect of it, but that doesn't make that measurement invalid or worthless.

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50 minutes ago, sv650racer said:

How successful Railjack is? You guys draw your own conclusion...

Bl9ifwm.jpg

Since it's the more or less same pattern as has been observed previously, at best neutral in its current state. Given that Railjack offers more opportunities for future content, the true impact of it remains to be seen.

For as disappointing as the launch may have been, that's nothing new for Warframe, unfortunately. There's been very few big updates like that without teething problems (albeit usually with better timing), but unlike Open Worlds which pretty much offer a different spin on the same formula when you boil it down, Railjack does offer far more opportunities for growth later down the line. For example, altering the balance of Railjack, Archwing and on-foot between missions and mission types, to make missions less samey between different incarnations.

This is all 'could be' rather than 'is', I grant you, but given that we should be getting new Railjack content soon, it's not really accurate to call Railjack as a whole a success or failure - it's not a finished product. If I recall correctly, it's rare for DE to announce an event and not have it show up very shortly after, and they seem to have enemies and assets all rigged up, which is why I say Scarlet Spear should be quite soon (I believe they also indicated that Corpus ship remaster was quite soon as well, but that's much harder to predict, plus its enemies weren't finished last we saw of it).

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9 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Yeah? So? That's still usage.

I disagree, it's more like a distraction. Only thing it indicates was whether it grabbed your attention that day. Even keeping the launcher up counts you don't even need to log in. 

A better indicator is still the average (or percentile) of time spent per login, actual usage of the game. 

9 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

.

I didn't even have to sell any prime parts, I had enough ducats lying around to buy it outright. /brag

Ok

9 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Yeah, but I don't think there are any stats that help you with that.

The presence of a better statistic tool would indeed be better but I doubt DE chooses to share it. 

Let us not confuse the presence of the stats and the public availability of them. 

9 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

.

I know the feeling. It's heartbreaking seeing all the artistic and technical expertise and effort that went into creating that game mode completely wasted by lackluster and misguided game design.

In agreement on this. 

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I never understand this fandom's penchant for measuring Warframe for a pine box anytime something vaguely disappointing happens.
Y'all need to play some other F2P games.

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