Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

[Myscho]

Probably thats why they decide finally fix some bugs which should be fixed in first 6 months in Open beta and not after 6 years

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

Which wouldnt be necessary if they had the balls to admit that they cant meet the release and PR BullS#&$ announcement at the TGA with their current gameplay state and how they released it. Those releases will hurt the game in a long run even more than an content drought.

Who are you to decide what is necessary. DE obviously thought it was since they asked us to test it in public and provide feedback. They simply dont have the QA team to check such a large system change to the game in house, nor are the select people on their "test shard" plenty enough either. They are even going to increase that as they mentioned in the recent devstream.

Railjack was kinda a new game within the game, so it was kinda obvious it would take the "early access" route that the whole game started out as. Especially since it is intended to be fused with the rest of the game aswell. Imagine how much that could have #*!%ed up if they released all of it at once, with it effecting several other systems with just the in-house testing done that cant even compare to thousands and potential hundreds of thousands of players that the live servers provide.

At such a point it wouldnt be avoidable by those that just want a polished game mode, at that point everything would be connected to it somehow with bugs and everything. It would have also likely been in development for another 6 months to a year to iron out the most notorious bugs with the limited feedback they can recieve in house. The way we got phase 2 ment that all those who dont want to deal with bugs can skip it, while the rest of us can enjoy it and help DE out to find bugs and balance issues. RJ was not mandatory since it was an isolated game mode in phase 2 that we could ignore with zero impact on the rest of the game.

[White_Matter]

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If was the word if you hadnt kept up with the news.

No it is a very poor analogy because we have ordered zero of it. We have no claims on anything, they owe us nothing.

But there was no promise to begin with. The only thing we knew was that phase 1 and 2 of railjack would come in 2019. Phase 2 looked like it wouldnt make it, but it did. New War not coming in 2019 was known far back since they had started a rework of it, as reported by gaming sites with inside info. New War "started" with RJ as a sneak peak teaser with slight progression and a cinematic. It will be really introduced with the next operation and then carry on throughout the year it seems.

What news ? Don't make me dig up dev streams or twitter posts claiming that we'd get New War around christmas. It is going to take time but I'll do it.

I never mentioned anything about ordering anything. That was your analogy.  And again, you are missing the point. If they say we are going to release X around Y. And they release only a fraction of X around Z, they can't claim that they have released X. Nothing changes the fact that it remains as an undelivered promise. 

New War coming around christmas is an official statement made by DE.  Gaming sites with "inside info" has no bearing here as DE officially announced new War wouldn't be coming in as the deadline closed in and they  realised they wouldn't be able to deliver it.

 

 

[Almagnus1]

14 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE obviously thought it was since they asked us to test it in public and provide feedback.

Wait, DE actually listens to feedback?

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I'm over here just waiting for the scarlet spear party. Lol gonna be good times. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

39 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

I'm over here just waiting for the scarlet spear party. Lol gonna be good times. 

Same

[Almagnus1]

6 hours ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

I'm over here just waiting for the scarlet spear party. Lol gonna be good times. 

You know it's gonna be a cluster as Railjacks kinda need to be upgraded quite a bit before they're actually usable...

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

38 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

You know it's gonna be a cluster as Railjacks kinda need to be upgraded quite a bit before they're actually usable...

Most Railjacks won’t even be able to get to the Saturn Proximal, and on PS4 the framerate and bugs won’t let them...  host migration should take out the ground team, and the sentients will win,     great event…. 

[Xkorpitron]

Tbh, all these complains, and people most likely going to play the event anyway, with or without bugs.

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, White_Matter said:

What news ? Don't make me dig up dev streams or twitter posts claiming that we'd get New War around christmas. It is going to take time but I'll do it.

I never mentioned anything about ordering anything. That was your analogy.  And again, you are missing the point. If they say we are going to release X around Y. And they release only a fraction of X around Z, they can't claim that they have released X. Nothing changes the fact that it remains as an undelivered promise. 

New War coming around christmas is an official statement made by DE.  Gaming sites with "inside info" has no bearing here as DE officially announced new War wouldn't be coming in as the deadline closed in and they  realised they wouldn't be able to deliver it.

 

 

Go do so if you like.

You brought up a loan, which is a transaction you make to them. We didnt make any transaction. I simply said it was a worse comparison than even the usual "resturant" analogies. Which you built on and actually used the word order. Look further up if you plan on saying that wasnt the case. I simply pointed out that we have given nothing to DE to have any claim to a return on.

It was yes, but plans changed drastically, from being a cinematic to a long standing "event". More to do, so it got postponed. If this was still just about the cinematic quest then yeah it would be viable complaints, but it isnt just about a cinematic quest now and it hasnt been for quite some time. So what you really complain about is them not being able to produce more than what was planned within the first estimated timeframe. So you demand more from them than what was initially intended. Any person with the slightest sense would understand that more content means more time and more resources.

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You brought up a loan, which is a transaction you make to them

You know this is just disingenuous, right?

You know full well that the actual point they were making was 1/10th of something doesn't actually equal something.

Trailers are not full movie releases, a car chassis isn't a car, railjack isn't the new war.

To focus so hard on it's not a loan because they owe us nothing and neglect the actual point they were making is incredibly dishonest.

[ValinorAtani]

Am ‎01‎.‎03‎.‎2020 um 13:35 schrieb SneakyErvin:

Who are you to decide what is necessary.

 

Sorry, as paying customers (yes PA) we can at least expect something better from a technical standpoint of the game than the past updates. And no it’s not my fault that they wanted to challenge themselves with RJ. Be it gameplaywise (which gameplay besides of kill x to progress btw.), Art-Design wise (which they achieved, kudos to the Designers) and what else they wanted to do with it and connecting it to the rest of the game. Are you really thinking that the upcoming updates will achieve it? I’m more on a realistic side here, DE overextended themselves with RJ what they’re capable of doing with their current team. Sometimes you have to admit that you’re just mediocre and not top notch. It helps to not risk your job with projects you cant control anymore. That’s what comes to my view as a stranger in the public seeing the state of the game and DE right now.

 

Am ‎01‎.‎03‎.‎2020 um 13:35 schrieb SneakyErvin:

DE obviously thought it was since they asked us to test it in public and provide feedback. They simply dont have the QA team to check such a large system change to the game in house, nor are the select people on their "test shard" plenty enough either. They are even going to increase that as they mentioned in the recent devstream.

 

And again, why is a non-existing Q&A the problem of the players? Do you work without a salary? If so you would be the perfect wet dream of any employer. That’s exactly what are you expecting from the players. That they test the S#&$ out of the game without compensation because DE isn’t capable of doing it by themselves. Let it be the budget or they just don’t care enough. If DE really wants feedback (they clearly showed in the past they don’t care about it anyways) why do not open up a real Beta-Server especially for this ground shacking updates, invite 50% of the player base from all MR Ranges and copy paste their account to it and let them test under an real environment.

 

Am ‎01‎.‎03‎.‎2020 um 13:35 schrieb SneakyErvin:

Railjack was kinda a new game within the game, so it was kinda obvious it would take the "early access" route that the whole game started out as. Especially since it is intended to be fused with the rest of the game aswell. Imagine how much that could have #*!%ed up if they released all of it at once, with it effecting several other systems with just the in-house testing done that cant even compare to thousands and potential hundreds of thousands of players that the live servers provide.

 

Could we just stop with this “Early Access” and “Game is still in Beta” excuses? The game was released (yes finally launched with version 1.0) in 2013. You and DE themselves giving them just easy and stupid excuses which they can hide behind instead of getting their S#&$ together and deliver better work. And yes the customer can and should expect a better work/updates/bugfixes after 7 years of servicing the same product. If DE can’t deliver it it’s the problem of DE which they are getting bended over and getting slapped right now fully reasonable and deserved.

The only response I’m reading in your replies are: “Oh, dear why are those forums users so mean to DE, why do they expect a better and technical working game and why does the Customers have expectations from what DE is showing in before and them as the poor Indie Developer they are can’t deliver, because no budget, not enough FTE etc. etc.” Is it the players fault that they expected RJ and Liches to be something better from the Trailers shown? And no Phase X (put any no. you want inside here) won’t meet that expectations because of the more and more negative reputation with their former updates.

 

The only thing you’re doing is to set the bar to Anthem and Fallout 76 level of standards which I (my POV) doesn’t want to see in Warframe. Let it be RNG, unfun gameplay, unnecessary nerfs, Bugs etc. etc. and more focus to cash out more players with ridiculous RNG and Grindwalls. If you can live with it, fine, but we shouldn’t wonder about it if a lot of people wont. Even if we don’t know the exact numbers but an indicator is at least Primed Chamber which they gave out just out of Heaven. And no I don’t think that they planned it beforehand. I wouldnt be suprised if it worked liked: "Thursday, one day before Baro. Weekly Player Statistic meeting. S#&$, numbers went down by XX%. What can we do as an quick solution to raise them? Sigh. Alright. Steve open up the safe. It’s time to get the “Thing”. But how?. Hey Baro comes in tomorrow. Put it into his inventory and link some stupid amounts of Ducats to it."

It looks more like a panic reaction.

 

Am ‎01‎.‎03‎.‎2020 um 13:35 schrieb SneakyErvin:

At such a point it wouldnt be avoidable by those that just want a polished game mode, at that point everything would be connected to it somehow with bugs and everything. It would have also likely been in development for another 6 months to a year to iron out the most notorious bugs with the limited feedback they can recieve in house. The way we got phase 2 ment that all those who dont want to deal with bugs can skip it, while the rest of us can enjoy it and help DE out to find bugs and balance issues. RJ was not mandatory since it was an isolated game mode in phase 2 that we could ignore with zero impact on the rest of the game.

So it’s still the players fault because DE wasn’t capable of doing a better job with less bugs? And because DE did run into a corner with RJ and wasted nearly 2 years of development? And that they had to scrap and sew something together because they wanted the PR Stunt for releasing it? Yeah, totally fault of the players.

I want to share a small secret with you: “Companies are not our friends” They want money. Nothing more. The only thing DE is seeing is that they don’t have to spend more money onto bugfixing, quality control etc. before they are going to release new updates because there are enough idiots out there who are defending their bugged releases and do unpaid Q&A work just out of blinded idealism. Man this behavior reminds me of dogs who just wants to hear: “Good boy, who is the good boy. Yes you’re the good boy” And Daddy DE will give you a treat for doing so well. Oh, wait.

 

Yes it isn't mandatory, yet. Besides the next “Story Quest”. The small one with the 4 Letters. Which you had to participate in RJ in one form or another to see it.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ValinorAtani

[Kaotyke]

Some people just cant stop replying, do they?

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

38 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

 

Sorry, as paying customers (yes PA) we can at least expect something better from a technical standpoint of the game than the past updates. And no it’s not my fault that they wanted to challenge themselves with RJ. Be it gameplaywise (which gameplay besides of kill x to progress btw.), Art-Design wise (which they achieved, kudos to the Designers) and what else they wanted to do with it and connecting it to the rest of the game. Are you really thinking that the upcoming updates will achieve it? I’m more on a realistic side here, DE overextended themselves with RJ what they’re capable of doing with their current team. Sometimes you have to admit that you’re just mediocre and not top notch. It helps to not risk your job with projects you cant control anymore. That’s what comes to my view as a stranger in the public seeing the state of the game and DE right now.

 

 

And again, why is a non-existing Q&A the problem of the players? Do you work without a salary? If so you would be the perfect wet dream of any employer. That’s exactly what are you expecting from the players. That they test the S#&$ out of the game without compensation because DE isn’t capable of doing it by themselves. Let it be the budget or they just don’t care enough. If DE really wants feedback (they clearly showed in the past they don’t care about it anyways) why do not open up a real Beta-Server especially for this ground shacking updates, invite 50% of the player base from all MR Ranges and copy paste their account to it and let them test under an real environment.

 

 

Could we just stop with this “Early Access” and “Game is still in Beta” excuses? The game was released (yes finally launched with version 1.0) in 2013. You and DE themselves giving them just easy and stupid excuses which they can hide behind instead of getting their S#&$ together and deliver better work. And yes the customer can and should expect a better work/updates/bugfixes after 7 years of servicing the same product. If DE can’t deliver it it’s the problem of DE which they are getting bended over and getting slapped right now fully reasonable and deserved.

The only response I’m reading in your replies are: “Oh, dear why are those forums users so mean to DE, why do they expect a better and technical working game and why does the Customers have expectations from what DE is showing in before and them as the poor Indie Developer they are can’t deliver, because no budget, not enough FTE etc. etc.” Is it the players fault that they expected RJ and Liches to be something better from the Trailers shown? And no Phase X (put any no. you want inside here) won’t meet that expectations because of the more and more negative reputation with their former updates.

 

The only thing you’re doing is to set the bar to Anthem and Fallout 76 level of standards which I (my POV) doesn’t want to see in Warframe. Let it be RNG, unfun gameplay, unnecessary nerfs, Bugs etc. etc. and more focus to cash out more players with ridiculous RNG and Grindwalls. If you can live with it, fine, but we shouldn’t wonder about it if a lot of people wont. Even if we don’t know the exact numbers but an indicator is at least Primed Chamber which they gave out just out of Heaven. And no I don’t think that they planned it beforehand. I wouldnt be suprised if it worked liked: "Thursday, one day before Baro. Weekly Player Statistic meeting. S#&$, numbers went down by XX%. What can we do as an quick solution to raise them? Sigh. Alright. Steve open up the safe. It’s time to get the “Thing”. But how?. Hey Baro comes in tomorrow. Put it into his inventory and link some stupid amounts of Ducats to it."

It looks more like a panic reaction.

 

So it’s still the players fault because DE wasn’t capable of doing a better job with less bugs? And because DE did run into a corner with RJ and wasted nearly 2 years of development? And that they had to scrap and sew something together because they wanted the PR Stunt for releasing it? Yeah, totally fault of the players.

I want to share a small secret with you: “Companies are not our friends” They want money. Nothing more. The only thing DE is seeing is that they don’t have to spend more money onto bugfixing, quality control etc. before they are going to release new updates because there are enough idiots out there who are defending their bugged releases and do unpaid Q&A work just out of blinded idealism. Man this behavior reminds me of dogs who just wants to hear: “Good boy, who is the good boy. Yes you’re the good boy” And Daddy DE will give you a treat for doing so well. Oh, wait.

 

Yes it isn't mandatory, yet. Besides the next “Story Quest”. The small one with the 4 Letters. Which you had to participate in RJ in one form or another to see it.

O thank God some one said this. . The amount of DE Stockholms symptom some players have it beyond my belief. ..

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

You know this is just disingenuous, right?

You know full well that the actual point they were making was 1/10th of something doesn't actually equal something.

Trailers are not full movie releases, a car chassis isn't a car, railjack isn't the new war.

To focus so hard on it's not a loan because they owe us nothing and neglect the actual point they were making is incredibly dishonest.

No, all I said was that it was a bad analogy. There are other analogies he could have used instead that are far closer to what we actually talk about. He full well ignores that there has been constant info regarding how they were going to set up and release empyrean. If they want to make a point, atleast make a point and an analogy that fits properly into the conversation.

And I agree trailers are not full movies, just as a demo reel is not always the way things will end up. Which is what the person is basing all of his points on, that the demo "promised" us something. Heck in some parts we got more than the demo promised even in the S#&$ state certain parts of the content from the demo was released on live *cough*liches*cough*.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

No, all I said was that it was a bad analogy.

Then that's pointless nitpicking.

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

And I agree trailers are not full movies, just as a demo reel is not always the way things will end up. Which is what the person is basing all of his points on, that the demo "promised" us something. Heck in some parts we got more than the demo promised even in the S#&$ state certain parts of the content from the demo was released on live *cough*liches*cough*.

If I recall correctly, this started when they said "we haven't got The New War yet" and you argued that we had because Railjack was a part of it. Hence their response about a part not actually being the full thing. Nothing to do with demo vs release.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, ValinorAtani said:

 

Sorry, as paying customers (yes PA) we can at least expect something better from a technical standpoint of the game than the past updates. And no it’s not my fault that they wanted to challenge themselves with RJ. Be it gameplaywise (which gameplay besides of kill x to progress btw.), Art-Design wise (which they achieved, kudos to the Designers) and what else they wanted to do with it and connecting it to the rest of the game. Are you really thinking that the upcoming updates will achieve it? I’m more on a realistic side here, DE overextended themselves with RJ what they’re capable of doing with their current team. Sometimes you have to admit that you’re just mediocre and not top notch. It helps to not risk your job with projects you cant control anymore. That’s what comes to my view as a stranger in the public seeing the state of the game and DE right now.

 

 

And again, why is a non-existing Q&A the problem of the players? Do you work without a salary? If so you would be the perfect wet dream of any employer. That’s exactly what are you expecting from the players. That they test the S#&$ out of the game without compensation because DE isn’t capable of doing it by themselves. Let it be the budget or they just don’t care enough. If DE really wants feedback (they clearly showed in the past they don’t care about it anyways) why do not open up a real Beta-Server especially for this ground shacking updates, invite 50% of the player base from all MR Ranges and copy paste their account to it and let them test under an real environment.

 

 

Could we just stop with this “Early Access” and “Game is still in Beta” excuses? The game was released (yes finally launched with version 1.0) in 2013. You and DE themselves giving them just easy and stupid excuses which they can hide behind instead of getting their S#&$ together and deliver better work. And yes the customer can and should expect a better work/updates/bugfixes after 7 years of servicing the same product. If DE can’t deliver it it’s the problem of DE which they are getting bended over and getting slapped right now fully reasonable and deserved.

The only response I’m reading in your replies are: “Oh, dear why are those forums users so mean to DE, why do they expect a better and technical working game and why does the Customers have expectations from what DE is showing in before and them as the poor Indie Developer they are can’t deliver, because no budget, not enough FTE etc. etc.” Is it the players fault that they expected RJ and Liches to be something better from the Trailers shown? And no Phase X (put any no. you want inside here) won’t meet that expectations because of the more and more negative reputation with their former updates.

 

The only thing you’re doing is to set the bar to Anthem and Fallout 76 level of standards which I (my POV) doesn’t want to see in Warframe. Let it be RNG, unfun gameplay, unnecessary nerfs, Bugs etc. etc. and more focus to cash out more players with ridiculous RNG and Grindwalls. If you can live with it, fine, but we shouldn’t wonder about it if a lot of people wont. Even if we don’t know the exact numbers but an indicator is at least Primed Chamber which they gave out just out of Heaven. And no I don’t think that they planned it beforehand. I wouldnt be suprised if it worked liked: "Thursday, one day before Baro. Weekly Player Statistic meeting. S#&$, numbers went down by XX%. What can we do as an quick solution to raise them? Sigh. Alright. Steve open up the safe. It’s time to get the “Thing”. But how?. Hey Baro comes in tomorrow. Put it into his inventory and link some stupid amounts of Ducats to it."

It looks more like a panic reaction.

 

So it’s still the players fault because DE wasn’t capable of doing a better job with less bugs? And because DE did run into a corner with RJ and wasted nearly 2 years of development? And that they had to scrap and sew something together because they wanted the PR Stunt for releasing it? Yeah, totally fault of the players.

I want to share a small secret with you: “Companies are not our friends” They want money. Nothing more. The only thing DE is seeing is that they don’t have to spend more money onto bugfixing, quality control etc. before they are going to release new updates because there are enough idiots out there who are defending their bugged releases and do unpaid Q&A work just out of blinded idealism. Man this behavior reminds me of dogs who just wants to hear: “Good boy, who is the good boy. Yes you’re the good boy” And Daddy DE will give you a treat for doing so well. Oh, wait.

 

Yes it isn't mandatory, yet. Besides the next “Story Quest”. The small one with the 4 Letters. Which you had to participate in RJ in one form or another to see it.

Edited March 2, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[Almagnus1]

49 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If I recall correctly, this started when they said "we haven't got The New War yet" and you argued that we had because Railjack was a part of it. Hence their response about a part not actually being the full thing. Nothing to do with demo vs release.

They're trying to tie in my statement about DE having been pertpetually overpromising and underdelivering on Warframe as not paying attention to what DE said in their dev stream because as reference that they can't find somehow shows that I'm not paying attention XD

 

[SneakyErvin]

51 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Then that's pointless nitpicking.

If I recall correctly, this started when they said "we haven't got The New War yet" and you argued that we had because Railjack was a part of it. Hence their response about a part not actually being the full thing. Nothing to do with demo vs release.

I only ever said NWar was introduced with RJ. I never said we got NWar released with RJ. Read up on what he actually complains about, which is that the NWar quest didnt come around christmas as promised, while he ignores that DE switched NWar from being just another cinematic into being a thing over a longer period of time. He cant expect something that holds more than a "promised" story quest would get released in the same timeframe as that isolated quest would. As I said to him, if all we were to get was the story quest, then yeah the criticism would be valid, since we wouldnt have gotten that. But now with NWar being more than just the quest, the complaints arent really valid, since obviously something that changes like that will need more time. Could they have released the NWar quest around christmas untied to the rest of the "event"? Sure. Would it have made sense? That depends fully on when the quest actually takes place within New War. That is if there is still a cinematic quest as part of New War, or if it has been infused into something else there.

He just keeps ignoring the info we have at hand over and over. There must be a reason why some of us knew about it long before christmas, just as there is a reason why many of us knew about the initial state of RJ. I'm not one that follows neither forums nor devstreams religously or even regularly, yet I had the info well before those dates. I tend to skim through a devstream recap here and there. 

[Spoop3]

I'm genuinely convinced at this point that this thread functions solely to harvest mass quantities of salt and disagreements while avoiding unpaid labor laws.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

26 minutes ago, Spoop3 said:

I'm genuinely convinced at this point that this thread functions solely to harvest mass quantities of salt and disagreements while avoiding unpaid labor laws.

Bingo

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, ValinorAtani said:

 

Sorry, as paying customers (yes PA) we can at least expect something better from a technical standpoint of the game than the past updates. And no it’s not my fault that they wanted to challenge themselves with RJ. Be it gameplaywise (which gameplay besides of kill x to progress btw.), Art-Design wise (which they achieved, kudos to the Designers) and what else they wanted to do with it and connecting it to the rest of the game. Are you really thinking that the upcoming updates will achieve it? I’m more on a realistic side here, DE overextended themselves with RJ what they’re capable of doing with their current team. Sometimes you have to admit that you’re just mediocre and not top notch. It helps to not risk your job with projects you cant control anymore. That’s what comes to my view as a stranger in the public seeing the state of the game and DE right now.

And again, why is a non-existing Q&A the problem of the players? Do you work without a salary? If so you would be the perfect wet dream of any employer. That’s exactly what are you expecting from the players. That they test the S#&$ out of the game without compensation because DE isn’t capable of doing it by themselves. Let it be the budget or they just don’t care enough. If DE really wants feedback (they clearly showed in the past they don’t care about it anyways) why do not open up a real Beta-Server especially for this ground shacking updates, invite 50% of the player base from all MR Ranges and copy paste their account to it and let them test under an real environment.

Could we just stop with this “Early Access” and “Game is still in Beta” excuses? The game was released (yes finally launched with version 1.0) in 2013. You and DE themselves giving them just easy and stupid excuses which they can hide behind instead of getting their S#&$ together and deliver better work. And yes the customer can and should expect a better work/updates/bugfixes after 7 years of servicing the same product. If DE can’t deliver it it’s the problem of DE which they are getting bended over and getting slapped right now fully reasonable and deserved.

The only response I’m reading in your replies are: “Oh, dear why are those forums users so mean to DE, why do they expect a better and technical working game and why does the Customers have expectations from what DE is showing in before and them as the poor Indie Developer they are can’t deliver, because no budget, not enough FTE etc. etc.” Is it the players fault that they expected RJ and Liches to be something better from the Trailers shown? And no Phase X (put any no. you want inside here) won’t meet that expectations because of the more and more negative reputation with their former updates.

The only thing you’re doing is to set the bar to Anthem and Fallout 76 level of standards which I (my POV) doesn’t want to see in Warframe. Let it be RNG, unfun gameplay, unnecessary nerfs, Bugs etc. etc. and more focus to cash out more players with ridiculous RNG and Grindwalls. If you can live with it, fine, but we shouldn’t wonder about it if a lot of people wont. Even if we don’t know the exact numbers but an indicator is at least Primed Chamber which they gave out just out of Heaven. And no I don’t think that they planned it beforehand. I wouldnt be suprised if it worked liked: "Thursday, one day before Baro. Weekly Player Statistic meeting. S#&$, numbers went down by XX%. What can we do as an quick solution to raise them? Sigh. Alright. Steve open up the safe. It’s time to get the “Thing”. But how?. Hey Baro comes in tomorrow. Put it into his inventory and link some stupid amounts of Ducats to it."

It looks more like a panic reaction.

 

So it’s still the players fault because DE wasn’t capable of doing a better job with less bugs? And because DE did run into a corner with RJ and wasted nearly 2 years of development? And that they had to scrap and sew something together because they wanted the PR Stunt for releasing it? Yeah, totally fault of the players.

I want to share a small secret with you: “Companies are not our friends” They want money. Nothing more. The only thing DE is seeing is that they don’t have to spend more money onto bugfixing, quality control etc. before they are going to release new updates because there are enough idiots out there who are defending their bugged releases and do unpaid Q&A work just out of blinded idealism. Man this behavior reminds me of dogs who just wants to hear: “Good boy, who is the good boy. Yes you’re the good boy” And Daddy DE will give you a treat for doing so well. Oh, wait.

 

Yes it isn't mandatory, yet. Besides the next “Story Quest”. The small one with the 4 Letters. Which you had to participate in RJ in one form or another to see it.

I'm a paying customer too. I dont feel they are in debt to me in any sense since I've gotten what I've payed for, which is what I purchased when I did. I dont know if their future updates to RJ will bring what they've envisioned. How could I? I neither work for DE nor am I a prophet. I do however understand it is a game, so I really have no reason to get worked up and expect the worst until it is there, at which point I'll handle it. So far those things people complain about were not to be expected in the current release to begin with. So in the end that is all a result of self hype and wearing blinders really.

A non-exsisting QA isnt the problem of the players. You arent forced to QA what they release on live, you can ignore it fully. They also have a QA server that they are planning to expand on

What "early access" and "beta" excuses. I didnt say anything about that. I said it was obvious it would take the "early access" route since it was such a new system. So since the game was designed through such a method previously, it wasnt a long stretch to think that such a method would be used again for such a "new thinking" system addition. And I agree, if this hadnt been the case of a new system, the 7 years of experience with the rest of the game should have been enough to get it out to the public in a more working state. But it is a new system in several different ways which has little incommon with the rest of the game, so their approach was sound. Getting it out to the public would shorten the time needed to solve the issues.

It is very much the players fault if they expected something better with Liches if they based it on the demo. Because the lich in the demo was even worse than the lich system we actually had dropped in our laps, which was bad enough to begin with. So going "but mah demo lich!", is just a pure case of complaining on DE for the sake of complaining. For RJ I think it is a thing that goes both ways. Both players and DE are to blame. Players because some simply seem to have never experienced a demo reel before since they took everything of it as a promise, DE for not being clear enough towards these players, not taking the time to spell out with big slow words or massive simple letters that it is just a demo.

I cant really relate to your RNG complaints and similarities to FO76 or Anthem. I've played more grindy western games that havent even been F2P, so I'm pretty used to the RNG and see nothing wrong in WF. The wrong I see is their kneejerk fixes, like completely removing any need to ever chase min-max rolls in RJ since you get them now out of the blue due to player complaints about RNG, RNG that wasnt very harsh to begin with compared to most games. Getting that 90%+ handed to you automatically isnt really my idea of a good fix.

The only player fault is that they dont understand that if DE were to hire more QA folks to keep fixes in house pre-release it would also likely result in more expensive platinum and everything else pretty much to make up for those costs. This is a full F2P game, so costs need to be cuts somewhere. This isnt Destiny 2 where all content releases are payed for by the players while also having a cash shop. I personally dont mind testing the content to find bugs and imbalance. And if most of that is fixed in around a month, then it is worth it compared to maybe waiting 6 months for a QA team to solve those issues.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is very much the players fault if they expected something better with Liches Because de set these expectations as the devs

 

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

A non-exsisting QA isnt the problem of the players. You arent forced to QA what they release on live, you can ignore it fully. They also have a QA server that they are planning to expand on

I'll believe it when I see it.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Getting it out to the public would shorten the time needed to solve the issues.

That's a great theory, but it doesn't work that way in practice.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is very much the players fault if they expected something better with Liches if they based it on the demo.

If you do something with the game engine, it is expected to be in a playable state reasonably soon.  Anything else you do with the game engine that is not in a playable state is basically false advertising.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The wrong I see is their kneejerk fixes, like completely removing any need to ever chase min-max rolls in RJ since you get them now out of the blue due to player complaints about RNG, RNG that wasnt very harsh to begin with compared to most games.

When we're talking about things like RJ reactors, that is a mandaroy grind otherwise you are actively gimping yourself.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The only player fault is that they dont understand that if DE were to hire more QA folks to keep fixes in house pre-release it would also likely result in more expensive platinum and everything else pretty much to make up for those costs.

The great irony is that players are often better than QA (which is why hiring more QA generally doesn't help things), but again, that actually requires DE to analyze and action on our feedback... and not have to get someone like Jim Sterling to call stuff out.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

This is a full F2P game, so costs need to be cuts somewhere.

No, they don't.  DE needs to properly manage Warframe, as they were focused on quality previously... then they got greedy and we got garbage.  You can still do quality if you're F2P.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I personally dont mind testing the content to find bugs and imbalance.

IMO I would rather have a PC release that's at the same speed as the console ones, as the console releases generally don't have as many issues as the PC ones.  I want to play a game, not beta test software.

[DeMonkey]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I only ever said NWar was introduced with RJ. I never said we got NWar released with RJ. Read up on what he actually complains about, which is that the NWar quest didnt come around christmas as promised, while he ignores that DE switched NWar from being just another cinematic into being a thing over a longer period of time.

Not sure they're ignoring it so much as deeming it irrelevant to their point, that being, "Christmas 2019 release didn't happen". Whether it was changed to a grandiose year long story or a purple bunny, it still didn't come at Christmas.

You are arguing as someone who believes we have gotten part of The New War, they are arguing as someone who believes we haven't. If you rewatch the cinematic trailer (that explicitly states Christmas 2019), you'll see what many of us see as The New War. Sentients actively attacking locations we know, specifically the plains. That doesn't exist in any way shape or form with the Railjack content that we did get.

I do want to highlight something though.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I only ever said NWar was introduced with RJ. I never said we got NWar released with RJ

This is so incredibly pedantic that it makes me think you worded your post deliberately as a trap.

Regardless, you said "New War started with RJ" and given we're yet to see anything resembling a war (besides on these forums) can you understand why there's disagreement? It's pretty undeniable that, and it is overly harsh to say, but DE didn't uphold their word. They said explicitly Christmas 2019. They shouldn't have said any date at all, and I'm genuinely surprised that they did because I'd thought they'd learnt by now, but it is a fact that we were told New War Christmas and it didn't arrive Christmas.

Hell, even if they were making The New War into Warframe 2.0 (which I for one would love) they would still not be upholding what they said.

Here's another analogy (yay), if you borrow a couple of quid from me and say you'll pay me back in 2 weeks, but 1 week later you tell me you can't and you'll pay me back double the money later in the month... that's great, right? I'm glad to be getting more, but it's still an undeniable fact that you didn't uphold your word.

And I dare you to focus on the 'loan' side of it instead of the obvious point I'm making.