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(PS4)SolarPhantom82

Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

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14 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

If you're not going to bother to properly format your response, I'm not going to waste time trying to figure out which part of your response goes to which part of mine.

Also, all of this should have been immediately obvious from testing because it's so simple to reproduce the archwing issue... just jump out of the railjack and die.

Paragraph per paragraph obviously. I could say the same to you aswell since I prefer reading paragraph per paragraph and not shopped up lines. Only time I prefer shopped up quotes is when they are massive paragraph sections, so you answer to one big section at a time.

Jumping out and dying wouldnt have helped them much with balancing the AWs properly, since the mode itself wasnt 100% balanced when it arrived. So which would be poorly balanced in the end if they alter both for the same release? Is the content overtuned, is the AW undertuned, is the content undertuned or is the AW overtuned? Now we have balance derived from the Railjack PoV, now they can start balancing AWs to fit into that balance properly.

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1 hour ago, 844448 said:

This is what I see as the problem, you're not presenting it with any maturity, only saying things with lololol which doesn't show any good will, not to mention your statement with people having DE Stockholm symptoms doesn't help at all other than making you look like a "toxic salty complainer" like you wrote

Perhaps, taking your time, putting a well structured feedback of your disappointment will give you a better result with some examples to do

You may be disappointed, but that doesn't mean acting childish will make any difference. I myself tolerate it because they work on numerous things at once and give you things that isn't just one same mission and do it over and over for months and pay when the new content drops

I’ll say you may be right about my tone, and yours is much better then mine…but I didn’t start like that… and it goes both ways, the white knights are just as bad.   Disregarding everything you say with a cliché answer…   it’s hard to talk about a problem maturity, when your called toxic for just saying there’s a problem...

That’s way I started calling White knights “ DE Stockholm symptom”, because I just couldn’t believe the excusers they would come up with for what’s been happen over  the last 6 months…

     I started this thread 4 months ago, it wasn’t a dooms day thread, and it was a hope things get better thread… as you can read…. So yes   now I jump on people who complain about player complaining… it’s also hard to be positive when things aren’t getting better...  remember we waited on PS4 for two months for any fixers to Railjack, and the frame rate is still broken after 4 months. So sorry if I’m a bit prickly...  I could do better with that…

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3 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

I’ll say you may be right about my tone, and yours is much better then mine…but I didn’t start like that… and it goes both ways, the white knights are just as bad.   Disregarding everything you say with a cliché answer…   it’s hard to talk about a problem maturity, when your called toxic for just saying there’s a problem...

That’s way I started calling White knights “ DE Stockholm symptom”, because I just couldn’t believe the excusers they would come up with for what’s been happen over  the last 6 months…

     I started this thread 4 months ago, it wasn’t a dooms day thread, and it was a hope things get better thread… as you can read…. So yes   now I jump on people who complain about player complaining… it’s also hard to be positive when things aren’t getting better...  remember we waited on PS4 for two months for any fixers to Railjack, and the frame rate is still broken after 4 months. So sorry if I’m a bit prickly...  I could do better with that…

Calling people white knights for not agreeing with you doesnt make you look much better either. You need to realize that people like and enjoy different things. I dont go around calling people white knights because they love eidolon hunting and want more of if even though I #*!%ing hate the content and think it is utterly poorly designed. Just as I am not a white knight for pointing out to some people that their opinions are just opinions and not facts and that it is on them for having failed to keep up with new regarding the game over the year. Nor am I a white knight for pointing out that someone has no clue about how statistics work when clearly they dont.

If all the people that are straight up whining in general discussion threads would actually post in the feedback section instead, they might see some changes they want. But it is easier to post rambling complaints in general and then later on claim "Bruh! DE not be listening to feedback!". You'd think the the title "Feedback Forum" would be a dead givaway to where you should post your complaints and suggestions. Although that would require constructive complaints to begin with and actual suggestions that arent composed of just "fix the game!".

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14 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Really? I've never seen them make the same mistake twice. Just a constant stream of new hilarious mistakes

What about continually putting out over powered stuff then coming back sometimes years later saying our bad that wasn’t supposed to be like that 

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5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If all the people that are straight up whining in general discussion threads would actually post in the feedback section instead, they might see some changes they want. But it is easier to post rambling complaints in general and then later on claim "Bruh! DE not be listening to feedback!". You'd think the the title "Feedback Forum" would be a dead givaway to where you should post your complaints and suggestions. Although that would require constructive complaints to begin with and actual suggestions that arent composed of just "fix the game!".

You make the assumption that we have not done that over the years... and have none of it work.  Just look at what we had to do to get the chat moderator issue taken care of.  It's so bad on that front that many of us feel that the only real reason DE is even fixing many long standing issues is because the playerbase is dying off, as we're seeing on https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All .  For example, we're just NOW getting a change to the shield mechanics, not when Hildryn released back in March 2019 when it would have affected her, and we didn't see that earlier even though this change helps the more shield oriented frames and their survivability.  How long has the "Loki or Ivara drops from stealth and get one shotted" issue been a thing?  Most of these issues would be blindingly obvious if the devs were actually playing Warframe when they go home because you kinda have to eat your own dogfood.  That's a huge reason why FFXIV is so successful is the exec producer is just as much of a player as everyone else.

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34 minutes ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

What about continually putting out over powered stuff then coming back sometimes years later saying our bad that wasn’t supposed to be like that 

Only thing I can think of that would actually qualify is the Vex Armor tweak. And no, I don't the Catchmoon nerf qualifies

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On 2020-03-03 at 4:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

And I said there are better analogies that actual can compare, yours wasnt one of those.

You tried to dismiss the argument by fixating on the debt, which I and others have already explained was a strawman. Debt had nothing to do with my rebuttal, only the part about the portion of something not being equal to the whole.

On 2020-03-03 at 4:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

No actually I didnt. You do know what "" means right? It means that it refers to something others say, it is not what you say. I said it was even worse than that example. Then you decided to use that example since you clearly didnt understand the "" part.

You brought it up, and thats why I answered to it and explained why ordering X and getting Y isn't the case, hence your comparison was wrong.

On 2020-03-03 at 4:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

But they didnt promise anything specific. The video really only refered to a cinematic quest. We've already got a cinematic "quest" with RJ, so we can actually push it both ways regarding if they delivered or not. We didnt see any specific gameplay at all in the cinematic trailer. We saw Erra and we got the chance to interact with Erra in december. Your reasoning is as much grasping for straws as mine, because there was no strict promise on what exactly we'd get. Your reasoning was also based on a 6 month old cinematic teaser trailer and you ignoring everything that has been said after that point in time. It is kind like me heading of to the cinema being furious over X movie not showing after hearing half a year earlier it would premier at that day, even though 5 months ago they went out and changed the premier day and me missing that announcement. You've missed everything since july 2019 pretty much.

They promised an update/quest/questline called New War and whatever else was in that trailer and we got none of it. And you are saying the limited intreaction, which wasn't even a proper quest or gameplay, we got from the Erra quest can swing things in both ways ? Again, If I pay 1% of my debt, do you consider the debt settled ? Unless your answer is yes, then you are grasping at straws.

It is pretty obvious that the New War is the continuation of the Second Dream - War Within - Sacrifice questline and it is pretty obvious that the Erra quest is not even close to being the whole of it.

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25 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

You tried to dismiss the argument by fixating on the debt, which I and others have already explained was a strawman. Debt had nothing to do with my rebuttal, only the part about the portion of something not being equal to the whole.

You brought it up, and thats why I answered to it and explained why ordering X and getting Y isn't the case, hence your comparison was wrong.

They promised an update/quest/questline called New War and whatever else was in that trailer and we got none of it. And you are saying the limited intreaction, which wasn't even a proper quest or gameplay, we got from the Erra quest can swing things in both ways ? Again, If I pay 1% of my debt, do you consider the debt settled ? Unless your answer is yes, then you are grasping at straws.

It is pretty obvious that the New War is the continuation of the Second Dream - War Within - Sacrifice questline and it is pretty obvious that the Erra quest is not even close to being the whole of it.

I dismiss comparisons that dont add up. When you include words like debt when there really is none involved in one of the cases it is just a simple case of rethorics. You use those small words to make the thing you discuss and compare it to seem worse or more dishonest than it actually is. Politicians do this alot, there were some very famous german ones that had a knack for it from after WW1 up to 1945, there were also a few russians that made a living of it.

It wasnt my comparison though. It was an example of a bad comparison. Those are two very different things. Just because someone includes something in a text it doesnt mean that what is written is their opinion. I even put weight on that your analogy was worse, that isnt the same as saying the other is good or viable. You need to learn the meaning of quotation marks.

No that trailer implied a cinematic quest, which then got brought back to the drawing table for something bigger. Now all of a sudden you arent sure what they actually "promised"? Or do you include several different options just to cover all exits and future arguments? We also got parts of what was in that trailer, namely Erra. The release order does in the end fall on the decisions of the devs, when they see their product as being finished.

Obviously Erra isnt all of it. That doesnt say that the quest they had a trailer for was all of it either. So no matter what they had given us, it wouldnt have been New War. It would have been a small part of it, just like we got some small part of it now. Remember how long it took for Sacrifice to get released and how little entertainment we got from it? I rather wait for something that is more than just another bite sized quest, even if it means deadlines will get pushed. If they had pushed the cinematic quest for christmas and the changed plans would have had it end up somewhere mid the New War story it would have been even worse than holding it back.

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11 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's also really useful data to the devs, because better understanding WHY people are leaving will help prevent them to leave in the first place.

DE dosent care that I left. I'm just one player I'm not special and that's being realistic. Warframe peaked years ago around poe and has been going down ever since becoming just another mediocre ftp title that's floating off the hope Itll get its strides back. 

Will wf die anytime soon? Heck no 

But Will it get better and become some sort of legendary award winning title that came back from the ashes? No as well. 

Warframe is just warframe now. Take it or leave it. And unless they Can get their act together and go back on a more stable level I'm gone 

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Politicians do this alot, there were some very famous german ones that had a knack for it from after WW1 up to 1945, there were also a few russians that made a living of it.

Did you seriously just call them a Nazi?

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49 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

DE dosent care that I left. I'm just one player I'm not special and that's being realistic. Warframe peaked years ago around poe and has been going down ever since becoming just another mediocre ftp title that's floating off the hope Itll get its strides back. 

Will wf die anytime soon? Heck no 

But Will it get better and become some sort of legendary award winning title that came back from the ashes? No as well. 

Warframe is just warframe now. Take it or leave it. And unless they Can get their act together and go back on a more stable level I'm gone 

What your supposed to do with that is throw it into machine learning database so you can better analyze the trends and better understand why people are doing what they're doing.  Yes, you're only one person, and one person on their own doesn't matter, but considering the Steam MAU is down to almost a third of what it was at Fortuna's launch.... that's a problem.

Really though, feedback (with the appropriate analysis to said feedback) is crucial because it ensures that what you think is going on is what's actually going on.  Problems arise when the two aren't lining up, greatness occurs when you've got a crystal clear idea of the player feedback.

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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Calling people white knights for not agreeing with you doesnt make you look much better either

No where ,,   any where did I said I call people white Knight,,,,,   And you proved my point ,      by not engaging in anything I said,   but basically said go complain elsewhere..   I’m not trying to give the Devs feedback,,  that’s been done already ,,   I’m talking to players about how the feel about the game..  Your one of those players and your voice is welcome, but to you mine isn’t ?

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17 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I am okay even if no frames can do it. 

okay but self damage removal only stops chroma from doing them. 5x3s will still be done just fine

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6 minutes ago, LOKOUBA said:

okay but self damage removal only stops chroma from doing them. 5x3s will still be done just fine

Chroma can still do a 5x3 if managed properly. It's just chroma isn't suicidal edgy boy no more and he has to get hit for his ability to work by something other then himself

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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Remember how long it took for Sacrifice to get released and how little entertainment we got from it? I rather wait for something that is more than just another bite sized quest, even if it means deadlines will get pushed. If they had pushed the cinematic quest for christmas and the changed plans would have had it end up somewhere mid the New War story it would have been even worse than holding it back.

I’d just like to point to this as the biggest of reasons I’m accepting of DE’s decision, even though further waiting does bring disappointment and skepticism.

So many things could have been done to make the Sacrifice more immersive.  Playing checkers with bloviating Caesar Smurf was so static.  It had very little of the cinematic feel I’d come to expect.

Inagine a mini game where you chase your son down and kill him from that perspective...how powerful it could have been even if you didn’t want to...

...anyway, we’ve been waiting for that cinematic feel to return for a long time...supported by gameplay and lore.

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28 minutes ago, LOKOUBA said:

okay but self damage removal only stops chroma from doing them. 5x3s will still be done just fine

Okay. 

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Can’t believe this thread is still going strong. Can’t wait to celebrate its birthday in November! 

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Just now, VitalAmprex said:

Can’t believe this thread is still going strong. Can’t wait to celebrate its birthday in November! 

Its a collection of merged threads.

Mods do this to keep everything in one thread instead of having multiple threads talking about the same thing (more or less)

With that in time, yeah, this is going to stay for quite some time.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

No where ,,   any where did I said I call people white Knight,,,,,   And you proved my point ,      by not engaging in anything I said,   but basically said go complain elsewhere..   I’m not trying to give the Devs feedback,,  that’s been done already ,,   I’m talking to players about how the feel about the game..  Your one of those players and your voice is welcome, but to you mine isn’t ?

You did... in the post I quoted.

Quote

That’s way I started calling White knights “ DE Stockholm symptom”

I mean seriously. You even managed to double down on insults in that exact quote. Not only are they/we white knights to you, we also have Stockholm Syndrome

Yep you clearly didnt call anyone white knights at all.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I’d just like to point to this as the biggest of reasons I’m accepting of DE’s decision, even though further waiting does bring disappointment and skepticism.

So many things could have been done to make the Sacrifice more immersive.  Playing checkers with bloviating Caesar Smurf was so static.  It had very little of the cinematic feel I’d come to expect.

Inagine a mini game where you chase your son down and kill him from that perspective...how powerful it could have been even if you didn’t want to...

...anyway, we’ve been waiting for that cinematic feel to return for a long time...supported by gameplay and lore.

Fully onboard with you. Too bad most people dont see it that way and instead focus on the negative that it got DElayed. I dont think those people realize that one can be both skeptical and disappointed but also see the better in the decision made. Now it is up to DE to show us that the change of plans were worth it or not.

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24 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You did... in the post I quoted.

I mean seriously. You even managed to double down on insults in that exact quote. Not only are they/we white knights to you, we also have Stockholm Syndrome

Yep you clearly didnt call anyone white knights at all.

 

33 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You did... in the post I quoted.

I mean seriously. You even managed to double down on insults in that exact quote. Not only are they/we white knights to you, we also have Stockholm Syndrome

Yep you clearly didnt call anyone white knights at all.

Didn’t call any one white knight, As in personally...and DE Stockholm symptom is what I call white knights that are over the top,  But I’ve Never told someone one on the forms that their a white knight or have DE Stockholm symptom,,  

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33 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont think those people realize that one can be both skeptical and disappointed but also see the better in the decision made.

Did I not say that exact thing with my analogy?

If I lend you £1 and you say you'll give it back in 2 weeks, but one week later say you won't do that and will instead give me £2 then that's a better outcome for me, but I'm still going to be skeptical and/or disappointed that you couldn't keep to what you said, especially if this happens constantly.

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8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Did I not say that exact thing with my analogy?

If I lend you £1 and you say you'll give it back in 2 weeks, but one week later say you won't do that and will instead give me £2 then that's a better outcome for me, but I'm still going to be skeptical and/or disappointed that you couldn't keep to what you said, especially if this happens constantly.

A better analogy would be if instead of giving you the £1 back, they said they'd give you 10p per week for the next 10 weeks.

Then after 3 weeks you didn't hear from them for several months, at the end of which they gave you 20 dinari instead.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Didn’t call any one white knight, As in personally...and DE Stockholm symptom is what I call white knights that are over the top,  But I’ve Never told someone one on the forms that their a white knight or have DE Stockholm symptom,,  

Personally doesnt matter. It is enough you imply it as a third part in replies to others, likely to dodge the actual forum guidelines. Which honestly doesnt make you look any better.

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