I have to know. Why are so many people defending the CO nerf like it’s the greatest thing ever?

[DatDarkOne]

22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And why on earth would you ever slot Steel Charge when we now have access to Swift Momentum that does so much more for a melee build?

That would depend on playstyle and build.  For example, Steel Charge would benefit me and my playstyle much better than Swift Momentum.  This is mostly because I don't build with the combo counter in mind.  

Not arguing, just giving an example of why one would choose Steel Charge over Swift Momentum.  😄  

[taiiat]

On 2019-11-12 at 12:17 AM, RX-3DR said:

A lower ceiling is paraded as a universal nerf but a higher floor doesn't count I suppose.

the higher floor is notable but also not that significant since how many Players use their Weapons unmodded or with several Mod Slots open anyways. the starting point isn't what you actually use in Gameplay.

[MPonder]

Said nothing about Viral, there is not even the "viral" word on what I said that you quoted. just about having a primed toxic mod, which could become Viral, Corrosive or Gas, with the other mod on the combination been a 60/60 or 90. A little less stats chance, but higher chance to proc that stat when a status is proced, plus a great increase in damage if you compare a 165 + 60 vs 60 + 60 combination. Because if you are playing with CO, you want to have that 100% chance to get the bonus on every next hit.

About, Steel Charge, I was talking about other sources of bonus damage, and wrote about Steel Charge

About  "CO is a better choice in all cases" is so relative and subjective. Relative with access to Riven and which stats they have, to where and how you are going to use, even your exception is not enough to encompass all this. Just no, I'm not gonna fight for it, go on.

Edited November 13, 2019 by MPonder

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Because if you are playing with CO, you want to have that 100% chance to get the bonus on every next hit.

Now think of how this works with AoE status effects on groups of enemies.  That "next hit" actually becomes the first hit on all other nearby enemies.   Mwuhahahahaha.  😄   

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

That would depend on playstyle and build.  For example, Steel Charge would benefit me and my playstyle much better than Swift Momentum.  This is mostly because I don't build with the combo counter in mind.  

Not arguing, just giving an example of why one would choose Steel Charge over Swift Momentum.  😄  

Oh indeed, but by his post I assumed BR was part of it aswell as WW, at which point Swift Momentum becomes one of the best auras since you wont need to waste weapon mod slots or riven stats on combo counter duration.

3 hours ago, MPonder said:

Said nothing about Viral, there is not even the "viral" word on what I said that you quoted. just about having a primed toxic mod, which could become Viral, Corrosive or Gas, with the other mod on the combination been a 60/60 or 90. A little less stats chance, but higher chance to proc that stat when a status is proced, plus a great increase in damage if you compare a 165 + 60 vs 60 + 60 combination. Because if you are playing with CO, you want to have that 100% chance to get the bonus on every next hit.

About, Steel Charge, I was talking about other sources of bonus damage, and wrote about Steel Charge

About  "CO is a better choice in all cases" is so relative and subjective. Relative with access to Riven and which stats they have, to where and how you are going to use, even your exception is not enough to encompass all this. Just no, I'm not gonna fight for it, go on.

If that was directed at me.

That would really only apply to a weapon where you dont have access to slash but still have crit/status hybrid stats. On any weapon with slash it is pointless to cram damage out of your elemental combo and pollute the pool. You just dont build for corrosive on a slash weapon, you build enough heat or viral to be a reliable debuff with the 8sec duration in mind in order to buff your slash damage. And that status along with the slash is enough to get more out of CO than PPP.

But the damage on SS is minimal and only really a choice if you skip working around the combo counter. At which point there is nothing to slot eitherway besides CO ontop of PPP along with 60/60 mods and possibly a 90% or 165% since you wont make any use out of BR, WW or CD mods.

In all cases between PPP and CO, since that was what you were talking about. Individual rivens are hard to put into perspective since it depends on dispo aswell as what you actually need. It takes alot for a riven to beat CO is damage on any weapon with reliable status procs, since two arent hard to get up and keep up on a target where you need it. You'd have to decide if it is worth giving up other stats on the riven that are otherwise limited on normal mods, or if that riven could help you free up other slots more easily for a better build.

For pretty much any content that doesnt involve status immune enemies I would grab crit damage, attack speed, reach or my needed element in some combination on my riven. If it was on a riven for a weapon I use to take down liches and bosses I'd go with crit damage, damage and speed in some combo since they are neutral stats. Then I'd mod the weapon depending on the weaknesses of the lich. Or I'd just use a build with PPP and focus my riven on the remaining 95% of the content the game has to offer.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Because CO was OP. Nuff said

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Because CO was OP. Nuff said

It wasn’t that OP. It could’ve lost its exponential stacking, maybe be limited to 3 procs, and kept it’s same calculations and been completely fine. It helped Status melee actually stand out. It helped make melee as a whole better. Nerfing things that made melee good without implementing good compensation does not make melee better.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It wasn’t that OP. It could’ve lost its exponential stacking, maybe be limited to 3 procs, and kept it’s same calculations and been completely fine. It helped Status melee actually stand out. It helped make melee as a whole better. Nerfing things that made melee good without implementing good compensation does not make melee better.

Bull butter it wasn't. You know better. CO was OP as all get out.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Bull butter it wasn't. You know better. CO was OP as all get out.

I wasn’t one of those people that used multistatus secondary weapons to boost the damage output of my melee. So I was only ever getting 2-3 Status procs on average and it’s felt completely fine to me. It was powerful, but it’s supposed to be powerful to compensate for melees lower range and requirement of getting closer to the enemy.

I never found CO to be OP. And I never met anybody saying it was OP until this update dropped and all these people came crawling out of the woodwork praising CO’s nerf like it was some act of God. When in reality it just made melee worse off. Should CO have been balanced? Sure. Did it deserve to be nerfed the way it did? Absolutely not.

[Leon-Darkheart]

CO got a "nerf"? *looks back* i remember it had 60% and not 120% now so....and reading a bit more, is it really such a "hard nerf"? Hell im more worried about Blood rush since THIS got a hard nerf mate - it sure needed one somewhat but now its a bit "over the top" hard nerfed.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

CO got a "nerf"? *looks back* i remember it had 60% and not 120% now so....and reading a bit more, is it really such a "hard nerf"? Hell im more worried about Blood rush since THIS got a hard nerf mate - it sure needed one somewhat but now its a bit "over the top" hard nerfed.

Its place in the calculation changed. It used to multiply the damage after pressure point, elemental mods and crit were applied.

Now it just adds damage based off the weapons base damage.

Edited November 14, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Leon-Darkheart]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Its place in the calculation changed. It used to multiply the damage after pressure point, elemental mods and crit were applied.

Now it just adds damage based off the weapons base damage.

sounds more clear now, thanks.

 

well, i dont think its still hard, thinking it was before 60% of total damage, now its 120% of the base damage, its "basicly" a free PP for each status on the enemy. I mean, im sure for some weapons its a nerf but for others maybe not. i cant tell much about it, but the weapons i use CO on doesnt feel really "weaker" tbh. maybe i just didnt care enough but, duno.

 

As i said im just more worried about Blood rush, its way to hard nerfed now, "sadly".

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

sounds more clear now, thanks.

 

well, i dont think its still hard, thinking it was before 60% of total damage, now its 120% of the base damage, its "basicly" a free PP for each status on the enemy. I mean, im sure for some weapons its a nerf but for others maybe not. i cant tell much about it, but the weapons i use CO on doesnt feel really "weaker" tbh. maybe i just didnt care enough but, duno.

 

As i said im just more worried about Blood rush, its way to hard nerfed now, "sadly".

It’s not worth using over primed pressure point. You don’t want to back load your damage. It’s better to deal as much damage up front to kill the weaker enemies faster and all the ramp up stuff is for the heavies.

Also simply doubling the damage doesn’t make up for anything. The math of comparing multiplying and adding like that just doesn’t work.

Blood Rush is kind of ok. It no longer works with True steel (so no more red crits unless your weapons base crit is over 30%).  But the combo counter stacks much quicker so it should scale at relatively the same rate as before.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Leon-Darkheart]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s not worth using over primed pressure point. You don’t want to back load your damage. It’s better to deal as much damage up front to kill the weaker enemies faster and all the ramp up stuff is for the heavies.

Also simply doubling the damage doesn’t make up for anything. The math of comparing multiplying and adding like that just doesn’t work.

Blood Rush is kind of ok. It no longer works with True steel (so no more read crits unless your weapons base crit is over 30%).  But the combo counter stacks much quicker so it should scale at relatively the same rate as before.

 

what actually was the old and now new calculation of CO? Coz i really want to know and if someone actually "did the math".

Edited November 14, 2019 by Leon-Darkheart

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, Leon-Darkheart said:

what actually was the old and now new claculation of CO? Coz i really want to know and if someone actually "did the math".

 

[Leon-Darkheart]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

snip

thats intressting to watch and yea, now i can see the nerf, which is kinda hard, like way to hard. i agree with that what the guy had in mind, which "could" actually work out fine but, to be fair, status builds are kinda way to hard to do AND play  so i mostly use it on weapons which are also able and worth using since they basicly "do use" statuses anyways or in combo with a status frame. so either they could do it as this guy said or, my idea could be that they are go back to the old "kind" of this mod bu insteed of 60% they make it "only" 30 or 33%, which would still work fine tbh.

[DeMonkey]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s better to deal as much damage up front to kill the weaker enemies faster

Er... no?

Weak enemies are... weak. It doesn't really matter how you build, they're weak, they die quickly regardless.

Stronger enemies are what you build around as they're the actual threats in missions. Building to kill weak enemies to the detriment of killing strong enemies is incredibly backwards.