Melee is now broken in Conclave + feedback

[-Gwanox]

Hello,
I'd like to report some unbalanced stuff around melee in conclave since the last melee changes.

1) All melee weapons now have a 100% damage block with a wide parry angle: a good player could basically go full god mode if they swap to melee mode.

2) Broken damage: a lot of melees now straight up one shot with slide attacks, like Dual Swords and Venka, with game-breaking range: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530772225251475457/642802299613478946/broken.mp4

3) Telos Boltace: I don't think that having a huge ragdolling AOE is appropriate in a PvP gamemode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsdVr8rlhAk (the Wolf Sledge also one-shots)

----

@[DE]joebuckPlease rebalance melee weapons, please join the Conclave discord: https://discord.me/conclave.
The Conclave community has a lot of feedback and ideas to improve the PvP experience of Waframe.

Conclave has a LOT of wasted potential:
if it was more focused on gunplay (like we do in our private tournaments with our own rules [no AOE, no Warframe abilities spam, etc...], maybe in a competitive variant) it would be the best parkour shooter of its generation, I'm not joking.

Last time I brought a PvE veteran with 0:0 PvP stats in Conclave (@Sarevok41) and he had to quit because half of the players were using broken AOE stuff and spamming hydroid powers + melee slam: He told me that he would gladly play conclave if it wasn't a huge AOE and Melee mess and if was more balanced.

I hope you send this to the conclave developer, Conclave could be a really popular gamemode if it wasn't an AOE and melee one-shot chaos. I know you can revive Conclave !

Thank you for reading my request

 

[Okami_Amaterasu]

Conclave could really be a fun side activity but this update pretty much killed it.

[-Gwanox]

EE.log with the melee slide one shots

[-Degu]

Conclave in its current state is barely playable, and even that is a stretch. 

We need a balance patch; blocking, telos boltace, wolf sledge and dual swords are all completely broken. 

If this doesn't get fixed, it's what will finish conclave off. 

DE, if you care, please address this issue as soon as possible. 

[Rubbertubtub01]

9 hours ago, -CheffDegu said:

We need a balance patch; blocking, telos boltace, wolf sledge and dual swords are all completely broken. 

Don't forget nearly every single weapons 1 shot insta slams which you can now also roll out of and do again with a second. 

[-Gwanox]

 

[Marrt]

Agree,

Just discovered the guy who apparently "made" the Hydroid-Pro-Meta: Slam-Undertow, get out of undertow when the free tentacle from hydroid-slam-passive has catched something. You can evade this stuff yes, but its lame that shooting is useless as long as a melee wielder looks into your general direction. Yes, he can't shoot you either when he is blocking hence: lame. Pair this with the new slam speed and you eliminated guns from Conclave.

I preferred shooting over the melee+ability playstyle. Quick-fix would be a uninterruptible after-slam-delay, so that there is some risk involved in slamming. Those slide attacks also look pretty broken.

[Dusteon]

31 minutes ago, Marrt said:

Agree,

Just discovered the guy who apparently "made" the Hydroid-Pro-Meta: Slam-Undertow, get out of undertow when the free tentacle from hydroid-slam-passive has catched something. You can evade this stuff yes, but its lame that shooting is useless as long as a melee wielder looks into your general direction. Yes, he can't shoot you either when he is blocking hence: lame. Pair this with the new slam speed and you eliminated guns from Conclave.

I preferred shooting over the melee+ability playstyle. Quick-fix would be a uninterruptible after-slam-delay, so that there is some risk involved in slamming. Those slide attacks also look pretty broken.

As somebody who prefers melee, quickest fix would be reverting all melee damage changes in Conclave (and likely removing any bonus damage slams have). I'm not sure how much control + time the few people (person?) working on Conclave have for changing what is now an innate part of the melee system, but removing all damage buffs should be possible and take almost no time.

I do like slams and other melee maneuvers being something the melee user can dodge out of, but they shouldn't keep the high reward they have if the risk is being lowered so much. Additional changes (in addition to the damage nerfs) would be slams only impairing movement or slowing instead of knocking down; something so that a slam is still good if landed but not instant death or a knockdown and then death.

[VanLyrr]

Bumping cuz yeah..

[Zrakamir]

Yes Warframe is great but conclave is not fun and thats makes me sad, would love this game but conclave is the worst pvp that i ever play on an shooter ..

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

The one gamemode that needs constant attention in terms of balancing doesn't get any...weird. Conclave is fun until it's not then it's very not

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I want conclave to be good. it has potential

[VanLyrr]

Why are the last 3 posts generic statements about conclave? Conclave was pretty much fine before melee 3.0 changes from last update. Last update broke melee.

[-Gwanox]

"We were led astray. We forgot the Conclave, so when that new evil came, we were not prepared. This is how we failed the Orokin. You went into stasis, but not me. I searched the long path for redemption, for the kind of balance only The Conclave can create. Now I return, only to find the Tenno still herded like livestock. Horrors from beyond the Outer Terminus are coming. You must prepare. You must accept The Conclave. Let it be your teacher and I its humble guide. For true balance can only be found in the face of the ultimate enemy. Yourself."    (epic fail)

Teshin

Le 17/11/2019 à 17:47, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 a dit :

The one gamemode that needs constant attention in terms of balancing doesn't get any...weird. Conclave is fun until it's not then it's very not

Sadly [DE] doesn't care at all: because of this lack of balancing, nobody's playing conclave. But the player number won't grow if they don't rebalance conclave: this is a vicious circle...

Edited November 18, 2019 by -Gwanox

[Sevek7]

On 2019-11-18 at 4:30 PM, -Gwanox said:

"We were led astray. We forgot the Conclave, so when that new evil came, we were not prepared. This is how we failed the Orokin. You went into stasis, but not me. I searched the long path for redemption, for the kind of balance only The Conclave can create. Now I return, only to find the Tenno still herded like livestock. Horrors from beyond the Outer Terminus are coming. You must prepare. You must accept The Conclave. Let it be your teacher and I its humble guide. For true balance can only be found in the face of the ultimate enemy. Yourself."    (epic fail)

Teshin

Sadly [DE] doesn't care at all: because of this lack of balancing, nobody's playing conclave. But the player number won't grow if they don't rebalance conclave: this is a vicious circle...

Your statement here rings painfully true. DE ignores conclave, so it becomes unpopular, so DE thinks "huh, I guess our community doesn't like PvP, I guess we'll just never work on it" thus ignoring conclave further, thus it becomes more unpopular, thus.... 

Can somebody make a meme picture of Teshin crying while surrounded by boltace & dual swords? I like to laugh when I cry!

[-Gwanox]

Il y a 16 heures, Sevek7 a dit :

Can somebody make a meme picture of Teshin crying while surrounded by boltace & dual swords? lol

yes.

[Pshyis]

Conclave is not unpopular because it's unbalanced.It's unbalanced because it's unpopular.It's never had much more than a few % of the playerbase playing it so it gets ignored in patches.The same way the other 2 or 3 PVP attempts did because no one wanted to play PVP on a PVE game.Happens all the time in MMOs that's why there are ones like Black Dessert Online that are built around PVP first and PVE second.One mode always gets left on the side of the highway.

[Sevek7]

1 hour ago, -Gwanox said:

yes.

It's just as I dreamed! 

Thank you for this, sincerely :) 

[Tyreaus]

There is something that this thread has made me think about:

First, it is kind of ridiculous how select melee weapons are so much better, and it's clearly a bug that some PvE stats are slipping into PvP. However, if the mode is garnishing more attention after U26 because of these mechanics, maybe it's pointing toward the notion that Conclave has acquired a sort of "noob tube" and that's helping lower-skilled players find a modicum of success (since the combo of the skill gap and null matchmaking has always been a bit of a problem for any newer players).

Granted, that line of reasoning is contingent on this actually boosting Conclave popularity, and I don't have numbers for that. But if it is making Conclave more popular, then maybe it should be looked at as something to analyse and leverage—figure out why it works and work with it—rather than discard. Maybe, for whatever silly reason, the busted melee mechanics are beneficial and the best fix is just to standardize and polish it so 1: it looks purposeful and 2: one melee weapon (type or otherwise) doesn't especially dominate.

[Sevek7]

Let's get back to the topic at hand (no more troll-feeding!) 

Conclave is hurting bad right now because of the melee changes, even those of us who like to play regularly are playing less and less. 

DE please hear us! The evidence has been collected and displayed in this thread by dedicated Warframe players, the situation is not good. 

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned.

Don't answer people you suspect to be trolls. That's how you derail threads.

[PatternistSlave]

Am I allowed to think any change to Conclave is for the better?  Am I allowed to point out how ridiculous the idea that reverting to a previous state of Conclave would render it "fine" is?

[Sevek7]

17 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

There is something that this thread has made me think about:

First, it is kind of ridiculous how select melee weapons are so much better, and it's clearly a bug that some PvE stats are slipping into PvP. However, if the mode is garnishing more attention after U26 because of these mechanics, maybe it's pointing toward the notion that Conclave has acquired a sort of "noob tube" and that's helping lower-skilled players find a modicum of success (since the combo of the skill gap and null matchmaking has always been a bit of a problem for any newer players).

Granted, that line of reasoning is contingent on this actually boosting Conclave popularity, and I don't have numbers for that. But if it is making Conclave more popular, then maybe it should be looked at as something to analyse and leverage—figure out why it works and work with it—rather than discard. Maybe, for whatever silly reason, the busted melee mechanics are beneficial and the best fix is just to standardize and polish it so 1: it looks purposeful and 2: one melee weapon (type or otherwise) doesn't especially dominate.

You bring up a good point, is it worth having some extremely overpowered weapons and tactics if it gains popularity for the game-mode as a whole? For me, the answer to that question is: maybe. 

Personally, I have observed (anecdotally, since I only play around a certain time of day) fewer people playing conclave since the update. So, the merits of the above statement appear to be null in the first place. If someone has statistics showing increased player engagement with conclave since the update, then... maybe. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

17 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

There is something that this thread has made me think about:

First, it is kind of ridiculous how select melee weapons are so much better, and it's clearly a bug that some PvE stats are slipping into PvP. However, if the mode is garnishing more attention after U26 because of these mechanics, maybe it's pointing toward the notion that Conclave has acquired a sort of "noob tube" and that's helping lower-skilled players find a modicum of success (since the combo of the skill gap and null matchmaking has always been a bit of a problem for any newer players).

Granted, that line of reasoning is contingent on this actually boosting Conclave popularity, and I don't have numbers for that. But if it is making Conclave more popular, then maybe it should be looked at as something to analyse and leverage—figure out why it works and work with it—rather than discard. Maybe, for whatever silly reason, the busted melee mechanics are beneficial and the best fix is just to standardize and polish it so 1: it looks purposeful and 2: one melee weapon (type or otherwise) doesn't especially dominate.

The mode isn't garnishing more attention after U26. It's just gotten so bad that we have no choice but to make threads about it now.

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

You bring up a good point, is it worth having some extremely overpowered weapons and tactics if it gains popularity for the game-mode as a whole? For me, the answer to that question is: maybe.

...

No it isn't worth it.

Ideally, PvP should be all about balance, so the gear you bring gives you options and enables interesting playstyles, but does not decide the outcome of a match beforehand.

Short-term it may attract some people because they want to try out the latest bullsh*t, but don't fool yourself into thinking that helps the mode in the long run. Especially if those weapons and tactics aren't available to new players trying said mode for the first time. Nothing is as demotivating as getting stomped without any sort of recourse where it's clear the other party has the upper hand just because they spent more time/money in the game.