Condition Overload In 3.0

[devidedkong_pow]

Can someone please explain to me why people keep talking about forgoing Primed Pressure Point entirely? I'm just confused is all. I would really appreciate a detailed answer maybe with an example, because the simple short answers I have been getting really haven't been helping much.

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

CO is an additive 120% melee damage like pressure point now. So pressure point is redundant. You're wasting an entire slot just for the equivalent of one extra status that CO would give you. You're better off using that slot for attack speed, range, elemental, crit, etc.

 

Edit: Damage mult for status with just CO: 1 status, 2.2x, 2 statuses, 3.4x, 3 status, 4.6x, etc. With a Primed Pressure Point on top, you're getting: 1 status, 3.85x, 2 statuses 5.05x, 3 status, 6.25x

 

Simply put, diminishing returns. Modding in warframe is about getting as many things that multiply against each other as possible, but pressure point is additive with CO, which is just better. So it's redundant.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Shards-of-a-Soul

[devidedkong_pow]

Ohhhh. Soo basically where condition Overload can basically always be giving 120 just from pure IPS. If not more. What good does a additional 120 do. I think I got it. Soo then when WOULD you use Primed Pressure Point?

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

1 minute ago, devidedkong_pow said:

Soo then when WOULD you use Primed Pressure Point?

You don't.

 

I have a riven for my Skiajati (Favorite melee by far since it's release) that has 140% melee damage on it, and I definitely can feel the difference, but it's not worth its own slot. Only case for base damage now is on rivens with other useful effects.

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

4 minutes ago, devidedkong_pow said:

Soo then when WOULD you use Primed Pressure Point?

Okay, technically there is at least one situation. I have a friend that uses the Guandao since he likes the design, even though he knows full well it's one of the worst polearms in the game. It has a status of 4%. So technically, in that case, PPP would be better than CO.

[RecordTheFox]

Or if you really really like melee so much that you'd fight status immune enemies with it, then ppp is "worth it"

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

2 minutes ago, RecordTheFox said:

Or if you really really like melee so much that you'd fight status immune enemies with it, then ppp is "worth it"

Status Immune enemies can still be "lifted". They don't ragdoll or anything, but the effect is still applied. They will still glow like normal, and CO does utilize it.

 

And yes I do like melee so much I use it on everything. I've barely touched a gun since this update.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Shards-of-a-Soul

[waterboytkd]

20 minutes ago, Shards-of-a-Soul said:

Okay, technically there is at least one situation. I have a friend that uses the Guandao since he likes the design, even though he knows full well it's one of the worst polearms in the game. It has a status of 4%. So technically, in that case, PPP would be better than CO.

Was gonna say something to this effect. If you're using a weapon with an abysmally low status chance, then PPP is better than CO. Otherwise, CO takes "the slot" for base melee damage boost.

EDIT: even then, status effects applied by teammates count for CO, right?

Edited November 11, 2019 by waterboytkd

[Hixlysss]

Brozime actually did a video on condition overload, if ya wanna see it check it 

TL;DR, If you go with just condition overload you can *technically* get more damage but that comes later when stacking more status effects, but considering you need to A: get the stacks and B: Very few weapon can carry enough procs to make it worth while as the damage only starts to become noticably larger when you're hitting something with more than three procs on it, thus meaning you're reliant upon using a "Primer" weapon to load procs onto an enemy to hit with your CO stick.

IMO, if the weapon has less than 20% crit and 30% status, I'm throwing PPP and CO onto it with the 4 dual stat mods...if I'm lucky and have a riven i'll try to roll some QoL stats for it like range, attack speed, ect and then have fun. Been doing that for sorties and lich hunting which is the highest tier content(Excluding endless) we have and it's been doing fine.
The kind of min/maxing that goes into using just CO vs using CO + PPP is for endurance running which honestly just got kicked in the teeth with melee 3.0, and it content for which DE does not balance for and thus does not intend for players to seriously play. 

[-Kittens-]

1 hour ago, devidedkong_pow said:

Can someone please explain to me why people keep talking about forgoing Primed Pressure Point entirely? I'm just confused is all. I would really appreciate a detailed answer maybe with an example, because the simple short answers I have been getting really haven't been helping much.

 

CO no longer goes off a FULL damage calculation with modifiers at the END of damage calculation phase. It goes off your base damage, period. It ignores PPP, PPP is no longer added to the CO calculation multiplicatively. If your weapon does 100 damage, that's what CO works with. It USED to work with your total damage and multiply all the damage you could do in a hit, including crits and including its own modifier. No more. Just base damage, and doubling what CO procs doesn't even kind of make up for the lost damage, never mind the cap proc, never mind CO no longer multiplies itself.

brozime

 

As usual Brozime's example is entirely synthetic and has nothing to do with playing the game. "doubling your swings is so inefficient without PPP", lol. WTF are you even talking about. There's nothing on the starchart that's going to live with melee 300% increased average damage output. Most weapons got buffed x 2.5 or 3 times damage and enemies didn't get buffed to compensate. They just die without PPP and you could throw primed speed mods or quickening in the exact same slot and blend whatever you hit the both greatest of ease and in one click, never mind heavy attacks.

Brozime's crippling engineeritis* on full display as usual. There's nothing on the starchart that needs PPP anymore. Nothing, and the only weapon class you'd ever considering using it in is sparring because sparring damage output is now raw festering garbage.

 

^{*engineeritis is a crippling degenerative disease wherein when you receive a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and now you fancy yourself  a material engineer and a geneticist and physicist both theoretical and practical and biologist both evolutionary and social, with double degrees in astrophysics and misreading scientific papers; basically are full of smug and little actual expertise in any area that doesn't involve structural tolerance or terrestrial constructs.}

Edited November 11, 2019 by -Kittens-

[Srovy]

A lot of stances have forced procs so even with low SC you can still load status