Jump to content
[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, BradKing said:

In all fairness to DE: what it does do, is more than double the probability to get all weapons in a perfect unique way (however it increase from 0.00% to 0.01% or so, ~200 occurrences vs ~500 occurrences in 10mil runs, so you know, if you like your chances in lotteries..)..

Huh, I was going to tell you to take the "Best Case Scenario" number in my simulator with a grain of salt, but your result is actually not far off.  I calculated the probability directly and you are roughly 2.6 times more likely to go 13 for 13 with the new way prohibiting consecutive duplicates than with the old, straight RNG way.  Of course, this increase in probability is from 1/48639 to 1/18614.

I also just added the ability to tell my simulator go back more than 1 drop to prevent duplicates.  It's fun to play with.  In order to cut the expected average number of Liches in half you have to prohibit duplicating the last seven drops.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sort of having an objection on trading converted lich since I may like my converted lich but at the same time want other player's lich.

That being said, I prefer if the lich we trade is the active one where you put it on a bounty board than the converted one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please make sure that an unwanted lich disappears over time or something. The number of squadmates refusing to mess with thier lich is too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the current system of "kuva lich" very good, but it loses all its usefulness over time:

EX :
When a weapon is given by liches it should have higher statistics than the one you have dropped previously  because the fact of redoing liches with lower weapons damage percentage only make wearies the player who loses 2-5 hours, for in the end just changed liche,if the problem does occur again and again, without counting the openings of the requiem relics.
inconsistency : with the current system of players could pay (liche exchange) for having weapons that others should spend months or years to recover ?

 

otherwise a good evolution for lichs would be :

- give them more of a spell coming from warframe or not, but differentiate them not just 7 different (purely for the spells)

- allow to call your lich with a utility or consumable (because the random appearance is well done but it is often useless)

- give kuva weapons a pasif, similar to paracesis (damage on the sentient + levels max resistance reset ) for kuva (damage on grineer + levels max disarm big kuva)?

- have more "Power Inversion" especially with the kuva spike in devstream 132

- have a special sentence for their death

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few weeks ago :

"The Lich will be your personnal villain, blessed by the Queens to take you out. "Nemesis," "Challenge" "Shadow of Mordor inspiration " .

*Epicness intensifies* 

Now :

"Hey, you can trade your Lich for plat if you want another ! (Yep, like a big cute plush) Also we will reduce the RNG dps of the RNG Kuva weapon ! And you ll be able to get one RNG requiem mod after transmute four depleted mods, since now mods are consumables. And "

*Alt-F4*

Edited by Stonehenge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they stand by "capturing" the Lich before you can trade It they haven't beed reading the community feedback at all, even partner streamers are getting upset.

DE you're not doing your homework... I hope I'm wrong.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We wanted to add some clarity: a Kuva Lich can only be traded once. A player can convert a Kuva Lich which then can be traded to another player as an active Kuva Lich for the recipient. If that Kuva Lich is converted again, it will not be eligible for trading. Should the traded Kuva Lich also have an Ephemera, then both the original Tenno and the receiving Tenno will earn the Ephemera upon defeat or conversion.

As for the Ephemera’s themselves, we are going to be doubling the drop chance of Ephemera for all newly generated Kuva Liches.

We still have more changes to make and discussions are still ongoing.
 

If it is a one "time only", I'm OK with it, I'm OK with a item that is achievable in a "reasonble" price in a market, but never, ever, think about removing the limit or increase it.  The most problem with Riven's market are resellers and their automate tools, getting all good Rivens faster and reselling them for much higher price.

1 Trade = No resellers.

But again

1- what you guys gonna do about the duplicates we have?

2- About incentivize people to do the system and try to get the weapons themselves instead of just buying it?

3- Doing Lichs is pretty boring, sorry. Do something about it.

You need to give people a reason to do the system, so the market always have a good amount of people selling the weapons, so the price don't go UP to much, because there will be a lot of offers.

For 1, I'd recommend a salvage system = Salvage weapons for Kuva and Riven Shards, you know, connecting the systems Kuva - Weapons - Rivens - Lichs more. For 2, plz, it is a #*!%ing long ass time to kill/convert a lich, make a pretty damn good salvage reward quantity. Could also allow to recover forma/potato from salvaged weapon, but only for Kuva weapons.

Edited by MPonder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 часов назад, [DE]Bear сказал:

As for the Ephemera’s themselves, we are going to be doubling the drop chance of Ephemera for all newly generated Kuva Liches.

Could someone explain it better, please? I'm sometimes bad at English.

What does "for all newly generated" mean? Isn't there already a guaranteed drop of ephemera from Lich if he has one? How can you double 0% (= Lich does not have ephemera) or 100% (= Lich has ephemera)?

Or does this mean that our future Liches will have ×2 probability to have an ephemera on it with 100% probability to drop after we convert/vanquish it?

Edited by bl1te

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bl1te said:

Could someone explain it better, please? I'm sometimes bad at English.

What does "for all newly generated" mean? Isn't there already a guaranteed drop of ephemera from Lich if he has one?

Or do you mean that our future Liches will have ×2 chance to have an ephemera on it?

After the patch that they will introduce this stuff, the drop chance of ephemeras with me 2x higher from "new lichs" you create..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 минуты назад, MPonder сказал:

After the patch that they will introduce this stuff, the drop chance of ephemeras with me 2x higher from "new lichs" you create..

Okay, I hope it's true. Thank you.

I just saw these news in my russian social network and the translation was confusing there XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We wanted to add some clarity: a Kuva Lich can only be traded once. A player can convert a Kuva Lich which then can be traded to another player as an active Kuva Lich for the recipient. If that Kuva Lich is converted again, it will not be eligible for trading. Should the traded Kuva Lich also have an Ephemera, then both the original Tenno and the receiving Tenno will earn the Ephemera upon defeat or conversion.

As for the Ephemera’s themselves, we are going to be doubling the drop chance of Ephemera for all newly generated Kuva Liches.

We still have more changes to make and discussions are still ongoing.
 

 Holy smokes. doubling the ephemera chances. sitting at 9 liches total and 0 have showed up, a big change 🙂 happy with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Emperrier said:

I converted one myself and got the ephemera.

on the wiki it says whether you convert or vanquish doesn't matter, as long as an ephemera spawned on the lich you will get it guaranteed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we please have the ephemera generate chance go up to 20-30%. Or if its unreasonably high can they be linked to some in game mechanic, something like 1 every 10 liches. so it will take 70 liches to get them all. 70 is a high amount and will give us a goal to reach. 70 liches will take something like 80-250 hours of gameplay anyay.

it should also lower the cost of them in the market when people start trading their ephemera's for plat. 

it will also make people feel less bad about getting a bad lich(weapon) since they are working for a medium length goal of a ephemera. You will also go wow this guy killed 10+ liches

besides ephemera on liches look cool and if have only ever seen 1 lich with one after 40 hours of gameplay

added:Someone in my clan suggested ranking up a lich should have a chance to give it a ephemera

Edited by b4timert
added a extra line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, b4timert said:

Can we please have the ephemera generate chance go up to 20-30%. Or if its unreasonably high can they be linked to some in game mechanic, something like 1 every 10 liches. so it will take 70 liches to get them all. 70 is a high amount and will give us a goal to reach. 70 liches will take something like 80-250 hours of gameplay anyay.

please no, then everyone will be running around with the same Ephemera's and the uniqueness of owning one will be lost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

please no, then everyone will be running around with the same Ephemera's and the uniqueness of owning one will be lost

its hardly unique by now since almost everyone has ephemera by now. they are not unique already. we got one at tennocon  you get one for free when you enable trading you got one for halloween event. You could even buy one in a prime bundle and random ones been added to various game modes. Exploiter orbs drop chance is 10% and its a 15 min fight. you can even buy one with vitus essence.

Edited by b4timert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, b4timert said:

its hardly unique by now since almost everyone has ephemera by now. they are not unique already. we got one at tennocon  you get one for free when you enable trading you got one for halloween event. You could even buy one in a prime bundle and random ones been added to various game modes. Exploiter orbs drop chance is 10% and its a 15 min fight. you can even buy one with vitus essence.

you do realize I'm talking about one type of ephemera and not ephemeras in general.

sure everyone owns the halloween one, but not everyone owns Vengeful Trickster which makes it a rare item to wear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

on the wiki it says whether you convert or vanquish doesn't matter, as long as an ephemera spawned on the lich you will get it guaranteed

Yes, it does say that. What's your point? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

We still have more changes to make and discussions are still ongoing.

Please make Lich always appear in mission after 3 hints are gathered. I see no reason why we must waste time to make Lich meter to rise again in order for them to appear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm a bit baffled by these changes, because I think they're aiming to go around the obstacle rather than overcoming it. 

Weapon RNG reduction: it's fine, but I think a 3 Weapons rotation would be better: that way players which want to farm a particular weapon have more chances, whilst players seeking more variety have at least 3 unique drops. 

Requiem Recycle: this is a good change. I'm still a fan of the whole "Thralls dropping requiem mods" thing, but this is a good thing anyway. 

Lich Trading: this... I don't know, doesn't feel like anything good at all because, simply put, trivializes the whole concept. The Lich is our personal nemesis, we work hard to vanquish them through murmur farming and fighting them directly (even multiple times), and triggering one is fairly easy. Even if Liches are a one time trade thing, it's still one trade more than necessary. Apart from the fact that Tenno become slave traders and in a way they'd become even worse than Nef Anyo, it devoids the entire concept of its meaning. If something needs to be traded, I think trading weapons would be a better choice, since to the victor go the spoils, and it's their own right doing anything they want with them. But the Lich? A living thing we decided to keep alive, which comes to help us and assist us in our neverending war to keep the System's balance?

I know it's just a game and I'm being too much  of a "romantic", but lore is important.

Spoiler

We fought the Queens just to save Teshin from slavery, only to become the Queens ourselves? 

If the "board" idea is still in the works, I think it would be better to just "leave" our Liches there. I understand there would be the fear of players filling a board with unwanted Liches, but there would be a lot of ways to fix that problem, and In general I think it would be a lot easier. 

 

I don't know, I love the Kuva Lich mechanic, and since they stopped taxing Requiem Relics their presence has become interesting and tolerable. There are other issues in the system that need to be addressed, Rebecca and Megan stated so in the Prime Time also, so we know they're actually trying to fix them. 

Lich ignoring issue: the most blatant problem at the moment. Liches must be a threat, something you don't want sticking around too much in your missions. Either they reinforce enemies around them with buffs (maybe depending on their progenitor, e.g. buffing their armor or giving elemental damage to enemies), or get stronger and stronger the longer they're kept on purpose in the mission. Maybe (I know this is pure madness but still) instantly getting to the fifth level if they keep being ignored until the end of the mission. 

Murmurs: not an issue anymore, but could use some tweaks. Maybe lowering a bit more the third circle could be a good thing? Nothing drastic, maybe from 70 to 60 or 55? It'd be fun if later, when the first issues of this mechanic get fixed, we actually get particular missions in order to find the correct Requiem. 

Weapon stats: someone above mentioned an interesting idea - using duplicates to level up a Kuva Weapon up to a 60% bonus. I think it would be a fine addition and would actually solve the duplicate issue almost entirely. 

Weapon disposing: It would be nice having a max reroll worth of Kuva if we dispose of a Kuva Weapon. The average time to gather the same amount of Kuva could be between 2-3 hours or such, doing Survivals, Disruptions or Floods/Syphons. Since Lich Hunts take even more time, a max reroll worth of Kuva would be a fine extra reward, I think. 

These are some of the things I though about, and maybe it isn't even the right topic to talk about it, I don't know exactly. Just wanted to share my thoughts. 

Edited by EvanGallaway
Added a thing and corrected a typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

you do realize I'm talking about one type of ephemera and not ephemeras in general.

sure everyone owns the halloween one, but not everyone owns Vengeful Trickster which makes it a rare item to wear.

I won't even use vengeful trickster if i owned it(maybe on loki but i prefer the stalker one on him) and i know your using it as a example.I like the electric one more the even the impact one looks better than trickster. Different people use have different cosmetic likes/dislikes and so you wont see the same one everywhere. In all honesty at this point i don't even notice people wearing ephemera, only ones i notice is the bat and spore ones rest is unnoticeable for me but i do look long enough at liches to see it wearing one since i have to look at them for a while to kill them. I don't even put ephemera on all my frames anymore. All that i care about is that I can see it on my frame since I look for more at my frame than other peoples frames.

Im all for people wearing what they want to look good and i dont care if someone wear one i own there is so many by now anyway im sure people wont use the same one. There was even debate in my clan about what one of the new ephemera looks the best. Someone in my clan killed 19 to get his 1st and if have seen someone say he killed 40+ and still dont own one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

As for the Ephemera’s themselves, we are going to be doubling the drop chance of Ephemera for all newly generated Kuva Liches.

Will the ephemeras have the 'not twice in a row' protection like weapons. Im asking for a friend. Because Ive not got one yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ciTiger said:

If they stand by "capturing" the Lich before you can trade It they haven't beed reading the community feedback at all, even partner streamers are getting upset.

DE you're not doing your homework... I hope I'm wrong.

They clearly are resistant to reducing this particular grind, since it's one of the most obvious differences between what we were sold and what was delivered. And since the Dev Workshop seems to consist of only weak waffling changes that barely address any of the systems issues it's safe to bet we're going to be stuck with this poorly designed system for a while.

Edited by Ampoth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Will the ephemeras have the 'not twice in a row' protection like weapons. Im asking for a friend. Because Ive not got one yet.

AFAIK Ephemera's spawn on your element type, so you can control that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, b4timert said:

I won't even use vengeful trickster if i owned it(maybe on loki but i prefer the stalker one on him) and i know your using it as a example.I like the electric one more the even the impact one looks better than trickster. Different people use have different cosmetic likes/dislikes and so you wont see the same one everywhere. In all honesty at this point i don't even notice people wearing ephemera, only ones i notice is the bat and spore ones rest is unnoticeable for me but i do look long enough at liches to see it wearing one since i have to look at them for a while to kill them. I don't even put ephemera on all my frames anymore. All that i care about is that I can see it on my frame since I look for more at my frame than other peoples frames.

Im all for people wearing what they want to look good and i dont care if someone wear one i own there is so many by now anyway im sure people wont use the same one. There was even debate in my clan about what one of the new ephemera looks the best. Someone in my clan killed 19 to get his 1st and if have seen someone say he killed 40+ and still dont own one.

although I hate RNG, you propose that every 5 liches you get an Ephemera, to me this is too much

it means that most casual players will be running around with these Ephemera's

I don't mind if other people have them, but I do feel you actually have to play a longer time to get them

especially since people will be doing tons of liches for the sake of better stats/ new weapons

Edited by BlackVortex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...